clueless on double-feed issue

[flampaint]

I was experiencing A LOT of double-feeding (aprox. every third to fourth shot) and also barrel breaks (due to the double feeding I assume) on my Xmag this weekend.
Took out the detent on the breech (modded, centerfeed with CCM feedneck) and put in a new detent (yes, I screwed it in all the way) and the above described problem was still happening.
The paint I used (Draxxus bronze) had never been an issue with this marker/barrel combination before either. (Stella, .685 back and .689 front)

I switched to my other X I had with me as backup and this was still happening, allbeit not so frequently, so I am guessing it might in fact be due to this batch of paint being a bit too small?

My X has been a true workhorse for the last two years, barely ever breaking a ball or double-feeding - and for it to happen so markedly ended up in somewhat of a frustrating game-day this weekend... :mad:

Anybody else have any other ideas on what could be causing this??

Thanks in advance

[Nobody]

What kind of loader are you using? I am thinking that your detents are old/worn out and the the loader is pushing past them. I would check the loader settings/tension and if you can turn it down it could solve the problem. I would also try a new set of detents, as well.

[flampaint]

What kind of loader are you using? I am thinking that your detents are old/worn out and the the loader is pushing past them. I would check the loader settings/tension and if you can turn it down it could solve the problem. I would also try a new set of detents, as well.
I replaced the old detent with a brand new CCM Detent.
I'm using a Dye Rotor - I'll try adjusting its tension down a bit and I'll let you know (although it was also part of the above mentioned perfectly functioning system for the past two years...).
Thanks!

[athomas]

The detents and loader determine if its going to double feed. Mostly its the detents, because even weak detents will generally hold back paint enough to stop a strong loader. The caveat to that is paint that is really small. If you have a larger breach, which is most paintball guns, then small paint can go around the end of the detent. When that happens, you can't stop it, even with stiffer detents. The only way to stop this, is to install a second detent on the opposite side of the breach from the original detent. A second detent reduces the width of the breach by the length of the new detent.

[nak81783]

I had a similar issue this weekend, but I wasn't getting barrel breaks. The paint was around .680" (Empire Evil). I assumed it was the hopper and detent combo, so I put a gravity hopper on for two games. That didn't fix it, so I'll be checking the detent when time permits.

I also used my X-Mag a few times over the summer with Valken (various grades) and other various Empire grades with no issues.

My question is what, if any oring should be on the detent? The one on my ULE body is different from the one on my X-Mag, and both are different (actually thinner) than the ones I have in my parts kit that I purchased from Tuna a couple years ago. I would think the thicker oring on the newer ones would make things worse.

[BigEvil]

CCM Detents? Get the AGD ones. They are the best for mags.

[nak81783]

99% sure I figured mine out, but I won't know for sure until I put some paint through it.

The culprit -- operator error...again. Disregard my previous statement about the orings on my markers being different. They were the same but different from the new ones from Tuna. I now remember putting the now-known-to-be incorrect orings on the detents in my markers.

Here's what I did; all detents are AGD. I bought the X-Mag in Spring, 2013. The detent on it had a really thin oring. It worked, but it would always back out, even when I really cranked it down. I put a new oring on it of the same OD but a thicker cross section. Being used to having to crank down the detent, the new oring deformed badly, and it looked weird. At this point, I put another oring on of the thicker cross section but smaller OD. This allowed me to tighten it down without having it deform. Well, since all the elasticity was consumed by stretching it over the detent, it wasn't going in far enough. I looked at the orings on the newer detents from Tuna, and they are of the thicker cross section and wider OD. These deform when tightened, but I'm thinking I won't have to crank them down so hard if the oring absorbs the vibration that would otherwise loosen the detent.

So I put orings of the same dimensions as those on the newer detents from Tuna. Working just with the removable breech, I could simply push on the ball stack to get balls past the detent with the incorrect oring. With the correct oring, it was almost impossible unless I also spun the ball above the chambered ball.

Anyway, I hope this makes sense. Use the right oring. Durometer could play a role as well; too stiff won't let it seat far enough in.

...and I drew blood with my oring pick getting the incorrect orings off. They were way too tight. Not sure what I was thinking or drinking when I put those on.

[flampaint]

CCM Detents? Get the AGD ones. They are the best for mags.
I put a new AGD detent in as well - same result... :cuss:
I'm guessing it's the relatively small paint.


The only way to stop this, is to install a second detent on the opposite side of the breach from the original detent. A second detent reduces the width of the breach by the length of the new detent.
Does anybody offer a milling service for a second detent for Xmags? I know Luke does them for ULE bodies... I'm guessing it shouldn't be too hard doing that same milling to a breech

Thanks for the input!

[nak81783]

Did you check the oring? I posted my mistake for your benefit.

I doubt it's the paint. I had some .670" that worked until I put the wrong oring on the detent.

[flampaint]

Did you check the oring? I posted my mistake for your benefit.

I doubt it's the paint. I had some .670" that worked until I put the wrong oring on the detent.
Nope. Haven't checked that but will sure do so now. And thanks for the input to you as well! [emoji106]

[Cyco-Dude]

i just use a 70-duro 010 buna o-ring on my detents, if i recall correctly.

[nak81783]

Did you check the oring? I posted my mistake for your benefit.

I doubt it's the paint. I had some .670" that worked until I put the wrong oring on the detent.

LOL. Rereading that, it came across quite brash. Sorry. I'll refrain from posting 5 minutes after the alarm goes off.

[nak81783]

Just to confirm the oring fix, I put a Halo full of paint through the X-Mag on full auto at 12bps with no double feeds, which is way more aggressive than anything I did this past weekend.

[flampaint]

fixed it!:headbang:
seems to have been a combination of three factors:

1. I was using orings on my detents which seem to be too thick (thus not allowing the detent to reach far enough into the breech)

2. The breech I was having issues with (I have six other ones here to compare with) seems to be marginally thicker, or rather: the threaded hole for the detent seems to have not been machined far enough into the breech (no matter which detent I used, I didnt' get far enough into the breech on this one). Fixed this with the thinner orings though. (dies anyone know if there was some sort of wide tolerance on the machining of breeches back when they were made, or did I just get unlucky and get one weird one out of some reason?)

3. My Dye Rotor had its loading tension cranked all the way up (which also led to occassional - albeit not as frequent as with the above mentioned breech - double-feeds on my AR-Framed Classic Mag with a wire nubbin detent). Turned that down quite a bit and have not encountered anymore double-feed issues with both markers

Thanks for all the input! :D

[vintage]

how about a pic of that AR framed mag?

[flampaint]

how about a pic of that AR framed mag?
nothing fancy... just an ol' splash camo Classic. I am actively looking for the missing tourney lock and ASA to match in the WTB section (http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?272142-WTB-splash-camo-tourney-lock-and-ASA) - but still haven't found those two missing parts.
Might use another body as well, as this one is actually for a smart valve..
Works perfectly and has an impressive ROF :headbang:
91816