Anyone Here Drive A Fast Car?!?

[Automag Ranger]

Just trying to get a feel for some of the car guys in the Automag community.

Post up pics and specs!

[blackdeath1k]

Slow cars but fast motorcycles here.

[UncleStasiu]

Define fast, please... I have an old VW sandrail, a never ending rustbucket of a Jeep project, and a mostly stock '89 Skyline GT-R. How about you?

[Automag Ranger]

Define fast, please... I have an old VW sandrail, a never ending rustbucket of a Jeep project, and a mostly stock '89 Skyline GT-R. How about you?

Like a 9 or 10 second car. Is the GTR right hand drive?

I've got a 850 rwhp CTS-V and a 700 rwhp CTS-V. I'll be selling the less powerful one soon.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/30/dddc18935062f92d3efd80d2ce6daecd.jpg

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/30/46887c9e2bec0c109471c69702fade9b.jpg

[Automag Ranger]

Slow cars but fast motorcycles here.

What kind of bikes? I used to have one but decided I was going to kill myself and went back to four wheels.

[blackdeath1k]

Well 4 wheels all I have is an old manual 4c S10.

As for bikes I've got an 08 hyabusa for riding 2 up with the wife.
A 04 gsxr 600 for dragging knee with a few friends that road race.
And a 1 off custom 200 wheel HP 05 gsxr 1000 that is a licensed drag bike. Soon to be a 250 wheel HP nitrous bike. My gas tank on my thousand is actually my little pic by my posts.

[UncleStasiu]

Like a 9 or 10 second car. Is the GTR right hand drive?

I've got a 850 rwhp CTS-V and a 700 rwhp CTS-V. I'll be selling the less powerful one soon.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/30/dddc18935062f92d3efd80d2ce6daecd.jpg

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/30/46887c9e2bec0c109471c69702fade9b.jpg
Definitely nothing that fast. Right hand, only way they came. Any lefty you see on the road is a conversion. Still on the fence about building it out to 8-900hp, or just selling it. Had it for close to 10yr now, and I've gotten a little tired of the attention it gets. But... It's been the #1 slot in my fantasy garage since ~1995. Worried I'll regret getting rid of it.

I really hope the grey CTS-V is the 850hp one, because that thing is just beautiful.

[stircrazzzy]

Does a '67 GTO with an LS powerplant count as a fast car? :)

[Automag Ranger]

Does a '67 GTO with an LS powerplant count as a fast car? :)

I'd count that! Post some pics.

[Automag Ranger]

Definitely nothing that fast. Right hand, only way they came. Any lefty you see on the road is a conversion. Still on the fence about building it out to 8-900hp, or just selling it. Had it for close to 10yr now, and I've gotten a little tired of the attention it gets. But... It's been the #1 slot in my fantasy garage since ~1995. Worried I'll regret getting rid of it.

I really hope the grey CTS-V is the 850hp one, because that thing is just beautiful.

That's awesome. I'm sure you would regret it if you ever got rid of her.

And yes, the gray one is the more powerful one. It used to be black. Now it's painted Lamborghini Grigio Telesto. I've had a lot of nice, modded vehicles but the gray V gets the most attention by far.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/01/c5eb52fe63f6ff82f81f2f7b5646482e.jpg

[Xmagterror]

I have a 870HP kenne bell supercharged 2004 corvette with 416 stroker engine. Its bad ass.

My car before that was a 1000HP twin turbo 2000 camaro ss

I built both of these cars. miles of billet parts on them i made

[Automag Ranger]

I have a 870HP kenne bell supercharged 2004 corvette with 416 stroker engine. Its bad ass.

My car before that was a 1000HP twin turbo 2000 camaro ss

I built both of these cars. miles of billet parts on them i made

Sweet! Pics or it didn't happen.

[knownothingmags]

I have a 870HP kenne bell supercharged 2004 corvette with 416 stroker engine. Its bad ass.

My car before that was a 1000HP twin turbo 2000 camaro ss

I built both of these cars. miles of billet parts on them i made
oooh I remember these.

[Fred]

I would call my GTI quick, but not fast. 250 hp and 300 ft/lbs of torque makes for some fun spirited driving though.

[Korso]

I drive a stock 2012 Porsche 911 Carrera (350bhp).

[cockerpunk]

fast cars are for slow drivers .... i really more into actually driving/racing cars, rather than HP battles.

i have a few cars, none that terribly "fast"

My porsche 944 turbo:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/gerglmuff/north%20shore%20road%20trip/69194_10101645804581307_1026101078_n-1.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/gerglmuff/cars/7729561742_23ffb2d9f1_o.jpg

mr2 spyder:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/gerglmuff/cars/20151003_114410_zpsdnqbvvwe.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/gerglmuff/cars/20150807_164712_zpsotd7ytak.jpg

and the winter beater:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/gerglmuff/cars/10922476_10203974066814551_6584069686294398705_n_z pszp4ifnqq.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/gerglmuff/cars/10959470_10206035197263491_3658973307506615127_n_z psbzlt7yab.jpg

116bhp is really enough on ice ...

[cockerpunk]

really more into driving them fast than building them fast. im an instructor for the local track and autocross clubs.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4ax95JeGtw

i took very little go pro video this year at competition events, i find it mostly boring and go pros are a PITA but here is some from last year when the spyder was on streets:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMXSwVj8C3c

and finally got the porsche together again late this fall for just a fun day style autocrosses, not part of the competition series:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tve29G8DAXs


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbJR091hg2g

[cockerpunk]

944 is really a cruiser, versus a race car:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgLMxM5HDAg

[blackdeath1k]

Fair enough argument about the HP vs speed. So I'll reiterate my earlier explanation.

My drag bike which has 200whp coupled with a 400lb curb weight has actually bested me a 9.7s quarter mile pass at 157 mph on 3 cylinders. (Fowld spark plug). And sadly I live in the land of 1/8 mile tracks. So no follow ups with fully functioning motor in 1/4. But it nets me consistent 5.7s at almost 130 mph on my local podunk track. Sadly riding to a local king of street race netted me a cracked oil pan when I bottomed it out. To which I burnt the #1 rod. So now I've got an over priced paper weight just waiting to be rebuilt and raced again.. . man I miss this bike...http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah54/Blackdeath1k/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_79701735804327_zpssstcuyzg.jpg (http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/Blackdeath1k/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_79701735804327_zpssstcuyzg.jpg.html)

[Automag Ranger]

My cars aren't dyno queens. I race ten regularly in 1/4 mile and 1/2 mile events. I can appreciate you wanting to go around cones, but I get way more adrenaline from a hard launch and going as fast as I can. Both of my V's have easily eclipsed 200 mph.

[cockerpunk]

im currently contemplating buying a D mod class berkin. basically a lotus 7 clone with a modern duratec ford motor (~170hp @ 1250 lbs):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQbHEsCWwB8

that exact car actually ...

[Automag Ranger]

im currently contemplating buying a D mod class berkin. basically a lotus 7 clone with a modern duratec ford motor (~170hp):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQbHEsCWwB8

that exact car actually ...

That looks like a ton of fun. I will admit I've heavily considered an Ariel Atom.

[cockerpunk]

That looks like a ton of fun. I will admit I've heavily considered an Ariel Atom.

if you want to have fun dont buy/build cars ... buy seat time, safety gear, and tires. lots of tires.

an atom is a huge waste of money.

[blackdeath1k]

if you want to have fun dont buy/build cars ... buy seat time, safety gear, and tires. lots of tires.

an atom is a huge waste of money.

Got a small fortune in leathers and geàr.

Although a said vehicle may be a waste of money. If its the said vehicle that gets your panties wet every time you get behind the wheel its still the right choice.

As for strait line or curves. I love both. But it is also a totally different thrill with each.

[Automag Ranger]

if you want to have fun dont buy/build cars ... buy seat time, safety gear, and tires. lots of tires.

an atom is a huge waste of money.

No, thank you. My fun comes from buying a car then building it exactly the way I want it - which happens to be fast. I understand that's your recipe for fun, but I don't happen to agree that it fits mine.

And I've driven a couple Atoms and loved every second of it. Again, your fun vs. mine.

[cockerpunk]

Got a small fortune in leathers and geàr.

Although a said vehicle may be a waste of money. If its the said vehicle that gets your panties wet every time you get behind the wheel its still the right choice.

As for strait line or curves. I love both. But it is also a totally different thrill with each.

1. unless you are national title quality driver, you are gonna run out of talent before you run out of car

2. you can build/buy turnkey MUCH faster cars than an atom for less than half the price.

3. if your going to spend 80+ grand, go actually racing. spec miata, spec e30, spec Z .... so many good cheap racing series.

[blackdeath1k]

No, thank you. My fun comes from buying a car then building it exactly the way I want it - which happens to be fast. I understand that's your recipe for fun, but I don't happen to agree that it fits mine.

And I've driven a couple Atoms and loved every second of it. Again, your fun vs. mine.

I've got to agree on the build deal. I've designed and built just about everything with my toys. As it sounds you do with yours. I get as much fun out of the build as riding/driving them.

[blackdeath1k]

1. unless you are national title quality driver, you are gonna run out of talent before you run out of car

2. you can build/buy turnkey MUCH faster cars than an atom for less than half the price.

3. if your going to spend 80+ grand, go actually racing. spec miata, spec e30, spec Z .... so many good cheap racing series.

May be. But if them don't give you the love of the vehicle they are not for you. As ranger said. Your love and my love are not always the same. That's the beauty of choice.

[cockerpunk]

I've got to agree on the build deal. I've designed and built just about everything with my toys. As it sounds you do with yours. I get as much fun out of the build as riding/driving them.

the way i see it, is you build a car to the rulebook. and then you go race. all of my cars are heavily modified (with the exception of the miata), but they are built to, or being built to a rulebook. because then you settle it on the track.

anything else is wealth worship to me, not skills improvement. making a fast car is no secret, nothing terribly complicated about it, you just need money. when im riding the bumper of a 800 hp ZR1 every lap at the track, or raw timing a GT3 in autocross, and im not even a top tier driver locally, i mean, i have a tough time with why in the world those builds matter. i don't really get what the point is.

when it comes to cars, the two Ts are the most important ... talent and tires.


but then my collecting paintball guns for the sake of them has ended too. now im really just more interested in playing paintball, not gun whoring. i guess i'd just rather DO rather than OWN. same thing with cars, i'd rather race them and improve my skills as a driver, than with no restrictions, build a car.

[cockerpunk]

instead of an atom i'd be shopping for this kind of stuff

http://www.racingjunk.com/GT/182593763/2006-Porsche-GT3-Cup-S-FIA-GT3-CHAMPIONSHIP-CAR.html

and just go GT racing.

[Automag Ranger]

the way i see it, is you build a car to the rulebook. and then you go race. all of my cars are heavily modified (with the exception of the miata), but they are built to, or being built to a rulebook. because then you settle it on the track.

anything else is wealth worship to me, not skills improvement. making a fast car is no secret, nothing terribly complicated about it, you just need money. when im riding the bumper of a 800 hp ZR1 every lap at the track, or raw timing a GT3 in autocross, and im not even a top tier driver locally, i mean, i have a tough time with why in the world those builds matter. i don't really get what the point is.

when it comes to cars, the two Ts are the most important ... talent and tires.


but then my collecting paintball guns for the sake of them has ended too. now im really just more interested in playing paintball, not gun whoring. i guess i'd just rather DO rather than OWN. same thing with cars, i'd rather race them and improve my skills as a driver, than with no restrictions, build a car.

You're only looking at cars in the context of what you do. I don't do what you do, nor do I have any desire to because I get enjoyment doing what I do.

For instance, I could say your car isn't fast because you will never trap close to 140 mph in the quarter. You could say my car isn't built right because I don't pull 1.2g's on a corner. It's apples to oranges.

I love the Atom for more than its ability to go around cones. I don't need advice on what cars I should get as I've been building and racing the kind I like for years. I know I'm sacrificing top end speed and cornering ability by building a 4400 lb car. Could I build another car to make it faster for a lot cheaper? I sure could. But then I lose everything else I love from my current car.

You sound like a dad telling his kid what he can and can't like lol. Thanks, but I'll keep doing my thing.

[cockerpunk]

Im not stopping you or criticzing you. You expressed that you wanted to have fun autocrossing, so i was merely suggesting good/cheap ways to do that. an atom is not the way to do it.

[cockerpunk]

also, you should look into pro-solo, very fun format:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cFfZVxoyfU

its a drag race start into an autocross course.

[Automag Ranger]

also, you should look into pro-solo, very fun format:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cFfZVxoyfU

I have done pro-solo several times. It's a lot of fun, but I'd rather spend money to make my car faster in a straight line than a constant supply of tires.

[nak81783]

I'm sorry. I have to ask, even though it's none of my business. What do you guys do for a living? Or, more bluntly, think Joe asking Peter on Family Guy, "How can you afford these things?"

The only thing I can contribute to this thread is that I got approval from the wife to buy a 2015 WRX, but my daddy instincts kicked in. She wanted a third row something for future mommy carpooling ambitions. Bought her a 2015 Highlander. I got her 2011 RAV4...at least it's a V6 AWD Sport with the appearance package (no tire on the back, among other things).

Oh, and I did see XMT's car when a buddy and I went there to buy an E-Mag. So the car exists, and after seeing his machine shop, I'm sure he's got lots of homegrown goodies in it.

[cockerpunk]

I'm sorry. I have to ask, even though it's none of my business. What do you guys do for a living? Or, more bluntly, think Joe asking Peter on Family Guy, "How can you afford these things?"

The only thing I can contribute to this thread is that I got approval from the wife to buy a 2015 WRX, but my daddy instincts kicked in. She wanted a third row something for future mommy carpooling ambitions. Bought her a 2015 Highlander. I got her 2011 RAV4...at least it's a V6 Sport.

im an engineer. no kids <- the real secret
i also basically do all my own work on my cars <- the only affordable way to own porsches or racecars of any type, even then .... eeek. ive spent easily double the purchase price of my 944 just keeping it running/nice

but frankly, most SCCA solo and pro-solo competitors are middle class, married, with kids. most HPDE drivers are too, though that is UNDOUBTEDLY more expensive.

i mean you can get into a nationally competitive E street miata or spyder for, 6 grand, with an annual tire budget of another thousand. a day autocrossing is 30-50 bucks, and at least locally here, you can do it every weekend all summer. thats probably the cheapest way to get into autocross in a serious way. if you don't want/need to be competitive, and just want a fun day out with your car, assuming its street legal and safe, you can just show up and run almost any kind of car.

[Automag Ranger]

I'm sorry. I have to ask, even though it's none of my business. What do you guys do for a living? Or, more bluntly, think Joe asking Peter on Family Guy, "How can you afford these things?"

I'm a traveling vacuum salesman.

[blackdeath1k]

I second the no kids being a big factor.
Engineer here as well. Actually just now gonna start using that degree as I just accepted a new job. But fabrication, design, and custom control systems has been my job for 15 years. But anyways. Married. Wife has a full time job and covers her hobby (nail art) and makes side money with it. I do the motorcycle thing and find ways to make side money wrenching on them. Or changing tires since I own a portable tire changer. My standard is champaign taste with a beer budget.

I do all my own work except motor building. My builder is to cheap to not use. I plthem c weld. Shape. Form. Fiberglass. Paint. Ect. And now have a mill and lathe.

As for tire price. I wish motorcycle roadrackng was that cheap. I avoid it due to tire cost. A friend of mine just got the amateur title in the series he raced this past year. He said each weekend out is basically 12-1500 bux. Between slicks and other expenses.

I had a little Saturn sky roadster and one point. But now if I buy another useless toy car it will be a lotus Elise. 05 era flavor. I just flat love them little overgrown gocarts.

[nak81783]

I'm a traveling vacuum salesman.

Ever forget the vacuum?

[Automag Ranger]

Ever forget the vacuum?

Constantly.

I do bad things on the behalf of good people.

That's my real job.

[cockerpunk]

I second the no kids being a big factor.
Engineer here as well. Actually just now gonna start using that degree as I just accepted a new job. But fabrication, design, and custom control systems has been my job for 15 years. But anyways. Married. Wife has a full time job and covers her hobby (nail art) and makes side money with it. I do the motorcycle thing and find ways to make side money wrenching on them. Or changing tires since I own a portable tire changer. My standard is champaign taste with a beer budget.

I do all my own work except motor building. My builder is to cheap to not use. I plthem c weld. Shape. Form. Fiberglass. Paint. Ect. And now have a mill and lathe.

As for tire price. I wish motorcycle roadrackng was that cheap. I avoid it due to tire cost. A friend of mine just got the amateur title in the series he raced this past year. He said each weekend out is basically 12-1500 bux. Between slicks and other expenses.

I had a little Saturn sky roadster and one point. But now if I buy another useless toy car it will be a lotus Elise. 05 era flavor. I just flat love them little overgrown gocarts.

autocross is the poor mans motor sport.

you step into spec road racing, you are talking 2 grant weekends easy. and thats road racing a dinky 135hp miata. HPDE (track days) are around 500 a weekend easy enough. heck, even go-kart racing is gonna be around there.

the rabbit hole is as deep as you want to make it when it comes to racing.


the biggest problem isnt costs however. its ego. i've seen more 600+ hp v8 cars go through fences, or into walls than anything else. guy thinks "well finally, i have a car for this, so now im gonna start doing track days" and promptly puts his supercharged GTO into a wall at 90mph, and we never see him again. so this scares people off. but the answer to bad driving isnt just staying a bad driver, its learning to be a good driver. folks know they will get smoked by a 116hp miata, so they don't even bother showing up. you have to walk into your first high performance driving school without that ego. and for folks who build 600+ hp cars that are used to the car shows, the stop light races, internet message boards, etc ... thats tough to do. they are used to there car bringing with it a level of respect, but within a circle of drivers, its skill that brings with it respect.

unlike running, or jumping, or catching a ball, driving is not natural. there is basically no such thing as natural talent behind the wheel. its basically based only on experience and instruction. to a lesser extent intelligence matters too. so no one is good at it naturally. which means we all started at zero at some point. and even national level drivers, there are higher levels, and even at the highest levels of sports car racing, everyone is learning from everyone else, trying to be best they can be.

there is always someone better, that shouldn't be scary.



not to toot my own horn to much, but i regularly smoke every lotus locally. arguably a better car than my spyder, but no local drivers are good enough in them to catch me. we don't have a particularly strong set of local lotus drivers though. the driver matters far more than the car, TT, talent and tires.

[nak81783]

I bought a '95 Wrangler around 2009. Thought I'd like off-roading. But after paying for the vehicle, tires, insurance, registration, ORV tags, maintenance, etc., etc., etc., I was scared to take it off road and break something. Ended up just using it for light two-tracking and deer hunting. Hit some black ice going 15mph under the speed limit and rolled it twice heading up to the UP. That was the end of that. Definitely didn't plan on doing much with the WRX (doing two cartwheels in a car is humbling), but it was the only safe, AWD, manual transmission , relatively affordable vehicle with some power to it. I do miss a manual transmission. I wish there was an SUV meeting the aforementioned criteria.

[blackdeath1k]

autocross is the poor mans motor sport.

you step into spec road racing, you are talking 2 grant weekends easy. and thats road racing a dinky 135hp miata. HPDE (track days) are around 500 a weekend easy enough. heck, even go-kart racing is gonna be around there.

the rabbit hole is as deep as you want to make it when it comes to racing.


the biggest problem isnt costs however. its ego. i've seen more 600+ hp v8 cars go through fences, or into walls than anything else. guy thinks "well finally, i have a car for this, so now im gonna start doing track days" and promptly puts his supercharged GTO into a wall at 90mph, and we never see him again. so this scares people off. but the answer to bad driving isnt just staying a bad driver, its learning to be a good driver. folks know they will get smoked by a 116hp miata, so they don't even bother showing up. you have to walk into your first high performance driving school without that ego. and for folks who build 600+ hp cars that are used to the car shows, the stop light races, internet message boards, etc ... thats tough to do. they are used to there car bringing with it a level of respect, but within a circle of drivers, its skill that brings with it respect.

unlike running, or jumping, or catching a ball, driving is not natural. there is basically no such thing as natural talent behind the wheel. its basically based only on experience and instruction. to a lesser extent intelligence matters too. so no one is good at it naturally. which means we all started at zero at some point. and even national level drivers, there are higher levels, and even at the highest levels of sports car racing, everyone is learning from everyone else, trying to be best they can be.

there is always someone better, that shouldn't be scary.



not to toot my own horn to much, but i regularly smoke every lotus locally. arguably a better car than my spyder, but no local drivers are good enough in them to catch me. we don't have a particularly strong set of local lotus drivers though. the driver matters far more than the car, TT, talent and tires.

The lotus would just be a Sunday driver. Lol. I just love them cars. Always have.

As for the power / experience level. I agree totally. I own 3 sportbikes with various power levels. Notice my corner Carver is older with the least HP. It's also the most forgiving and most fun in corners. Dragging knee on my Busa. Or run of the mill 1000s takes very clean and precise throttle control. Or you puke the bike out at lean by lighting the tire up. My 600 however is very forgiving to a person that understands throttle control. So I can go out and really play. And in turn. Like you with the cheaper and less HP car. Wax the others with your control and knowledge of your vehicle.

[cockerpunk]

The lotus would just be a Sunday driver. Lol. I just love them cars. Always have.

As for the power / experience level. I agree totally. I own 3 sportbikes with various power levels. Notice my corner Carver is older with the least HP. It's also the most forgiving and most fun in corners. Dragging knee on my Busa. Or run of the mill 1000s takes very clean and precise throttle control. Or you puke the bike out at lean by lighting the tire up. My 600 however is very forgiving to a person that understands throttle control. So I can go out and really play. And in turn. Like you with the cheaper and less HP car. Wax the others with your control and knowledge of your vehicle.

oh dont worry, i plan to join them. spyder is undergoing a full SSM class build right now, in a year or two she'll be sporting 350rwhp, 1950lbs .... my main competition this year in class was a 430rwhp mk2 mr2 turbo codriven by an SS class national trophy winner, and his friend, who is a local STR class winner. im tired of bringing a knife to a Vulcan cannon fight, even if i can win sometimes.

my point is you gotta learn somewhere. lots of folks don't bother showing up because they don't think they have a "good" car for it, and so when they finally have what they think is a good car (which often isn't), it has far too much power, and not enough grip, and they have not learned on less powerful, and less grippy cars, how to drive, so they promptly put it in a wall and are done with motorsports.

like the kid who buys a brand new ego, talks **** on messageboards all day, and then gets smoked the second he shows up to actually play paintball.

one of our clubs most promising drivers learned to autocross in a 5 speed Camry. ****ty car, but he learned how to carry speed through corners better than most because of its flaws. a girl in our club used to run a hyundai sedan, before she bought a mk1 mr2. it doesn't matter what car you have, you can always learn to be a better driver. and that, unlike upgrading your car, always stays with you.

[cockerpunk]

I bought a '95 Wrangler around 2009. Thought I'd like off-roading. But after paying for the vehicle, tires, insurance, registration, ORV tags, maintenance, etc., etc., etc., I was scared to take it off road and break something. Ended up just using it for light two-tracking and deer hunting. Hit some black ice going 15mph under the speed limit and rolled it twice heading up to the UP. That was the end of that. Definitely didn't plan on doing much with the WRX (doing two cartwheels in a car is humbling), but it was the only safe, AWD, manual transmission , relatively affordable vehicle with some power to it. I do miss a manual transmission. I wish there was an SUV meeting the aforementioned criteria.

i want to buy an old XJ for ice fun. you can find them in manual still.

dat AMC straight 6 ...

[Fred]

One of my college buddies/ex co worker/ex roommate has an Elise.

If you're 5' nothing tall like he is, they're awesome. He dailies it and it will never be worth less than he bought it for unless it gets wrecked.

If you're 6'1 like me, its a nightmare figuring out how to fall into and out of one. The roof off helps, but not much.

Very fun to drive though.

I'm hoping to replace my GTI with a Focus RS next year...

[UncleStasiu]

I'm sorry. I have to ask, even though it's none of my business. What do you guys do for a living? Or, more bluntly, think Joe asking Peter on Family Guy, "How can you afford these things?"

The only thing I can contribute to this thread is that I got approval from the wife to buy a 2015 WRX, but my daddy instincts kicked in. She wanted a third row something for future mommy carpooling ambitions. Bought her a 2015 Highlander. I got her 2011 RAV4...at least it's a V6 AWD Sport with the appearance package (no tire on the back, among other things).

Oh, and I did see XMT's car when a buddy and I went there to buy an E-Mag. So the car exists, and after seeing his machine shop, I'm sure he's got lots of homegrown goodies in it.
I'm sure you're a wonderful person, with very different priorities than me, obviously. I'm not riled up at you, just at the question, since I get it often. So here goes.

By ignoring the "responsible" voice, and listening to the one that says "make life fun". My responsibilities go way beyond keeping my kids safe and making raising them easy. I need to make life fun, to teach lessons like fast can be fun, so can slow and bouncy. Getting stuck is ok, as long as you figure out why. Sliding isn't scary, just a thing to deal with, and can actually be fun if there aren't other cars around. The view out the window is better than the one of the DVD player in grandpa's minivan.

My little boy runs around making blow-off valve noises with his Hot Wheels, yells faster in the Skyline, loves waving at people from the "wrong" side of the car, but has zero interest in driving it ever. He always wants to get behind the wheel of the Jeep and go offroading, climb up the gullies and rocks, and splash through the mudpits.

Not sorry for the minor rant. "How can you afford that?" is usually just a thinly veiled "how can you be so irresponsible? You need a minivan or SUV!" in my experience, and I cannot abide that sentiment. I can afford these things because I've owned the car since before I met my wife, because she bought my Jeep as a (cheap) gift from her friend, because she traded her crappy CUV in for her Jeep and made a profit on the transaction, because I paid less for the sandrail than for my Viking.

How can YOU afford to prioritize convenience, comfort, and blandness over fun, skill, and new experiences? In ANY aspect of life? What lessons does that teach?

[blackdeath1k]

I'm sure you're a wonderful person, with very different priorities than me, obviously. I'm not riled up at you, just at the question, since I get it often. So here goes.

By ignoring the "responsible" voice, and listening to the one that says "make life fun". My responsibilities go way beyond keeping my kids safe and making raising them easy. I need to make life fun, to teach lessons like fast can be fun, so can slow and bouncy. Getting stuck is ok, as long as you figure out why. Sliding isn't scary, just a thing to deal with, and can actually be fun if there aren't other cars around. The view out the window is better than the one of the DVD player in grandpa's minivan.

My little boy runs around making blow-off valve noises with his Hot Wheels, yells faster in the Skyline, loves waving at people from the "wrong" side of the car, but has zero interest in driving it ever. He always wants to get behind the wheel of the Jeep and go offroading, climb up the gullies and rocks, and splash through the mudpits.

Not sorry for the minor rant. "How can you afford that?" is usually just a thinly veiled "how can you be so irresponsible? You need a minivan or SUV!" in my experience, and I cannot abide that sentiment. I can afford these things because I've owned the car since before I met my wife, because she bought my Jeep as a (cheap) gift from her friend, because she traded her crappy CUV in for her Jeep and made a profit on the transaction, because I paid less for the sandrail than for my Viking.

How can YOU afford to prioritize convenience, comfort, and blandness over fun, skill, and new experiences? In ANY aspect of life? What lessons does that teach?


Both side of said coin is relevant. Some people are in a position they can barely afford a single mid priced vehicle. In which case the one that does all needs comes first. I grew up with parents that worked hard to make ends meet so that there kids could hopefully have the things they could not. What they would have liked to do for me and what they could afford to do were not the same. Me and the wife have friends that do stuff all the time. They also have debt up to there eyeballs and get concerned at any change for the risk of not making there loan payments. Us on the other hand. All bikes are paid for. And our house may not be flashy but it works and costs little. So if one of us misses a couple days of work it isn't the end of the world. Flip sides to everything.

[nak81783]

You're right. My question deserved such a response. Sorry for my question and for derailing the thread. I'll butt out.

Edit: Or rather, I deserved such a response for my question.

[UncleStasiu]

Both side of said coin is relevant. Some people are in a position they can barely afford a single mid priced vehicle. In which case the one that does all needs comes first. I grew up with parents that worked hard to make ends meet so that there kids could hopefully have the things they could not. What they would have liked to do for me and what they could afford to do were not the same. Me and the wife have friends that do stuff all the time. They also have debt up to there eyeballs and get concerned at any change for the risk of not making there loan payments. Us on the other hand. All bikes are paid for. And our house may not be flashy but it works and costs little. So if one of us misses a couple days of work it isn't the end of the world. Flip sides to everything.
Very true, I had a similar upbringing. (Poor immigrant parents, I was born 2-3 years after they got here. Turns out the streets arent actually paved with gold, but way better than behind the Iron Curtain still) I didn't touch on that side of the argument as any parent who paintballs and is in the market for a new Highlander or WRX isnt scraping the bottom of the barrel. The question generally comes from this financial strata. Friends that are less well off don't ask how and don't see irresponsibility, they just work harder, and do the best they can. They drive what they can until they can drive what they like. And since they're of like mind, their still have "fun" vehicles. Just that they can only afford one cheap one, so it needs to be reliable enough to be a daily driver, and any (few) mods have to do with ingenuity and barter rather than "ooh shiny!" and a credit card.

[maniacmechanic]

Constantly.

I do bad things on the behalf of good people.

That's my real job.

and I Thank You for that , L & L

[blackdeath1k]

Uncle.
Very true. Wife is a polish immagrant. She was 3 when moving here. And yes all points apply. I hear that question a lot too. My general response is. I've worked hard a lot of years to acquire my toys one toy at a time. Anyone else can do the same.

NAK.
All good. When you have a handful of people talking about there apparent high dollar playtoys it does beg the question. "What do you do for a living.". And when looking. Some apparent expensive toys are actually pretty cheap.


Cockerpunk.
I've really thought about a motor swap for my corner Carver. For other uses I do enjoy all the power of my other bikes. But in reality. The added rotatig weight alone makes for a total change with throwing a bike side to side. So my final decision with that bike is that it stays stock. With minimal overhead in it. The 600 is literally my desposible bike.

Fred.
Sorry I missed your Elise comment earlier. Luckelly for me. I'm 5'10" and 160lb. So the overgrown gocarts are not that bad. My sky was about the same.

[cockerpunk]

I'm sure you're a wonderful person, with very different priorities than me, obviously. I'm not riled up at you, just at the question, since I get it often. So here goes.

By ignoring the "responsible" voice, and listening to the one that says "make life fun". My responsibilities go way beyond keeping my kids safe and making raising them easy. I need to make life fun, to teach lessons like fast can be fun, so can slow and bouncy. Getting stuck is ok, as long as you figure out why. Sliding isn't scary, just a thing to deal with, and can actually be fun if there aren't other cars around. The view out the window is better than the one of the DVD player in grandpa's minivan.

My little boy runs around making blow-off valve noises with his Hot Wheels, yells faster in the Skyline, loves waving at people from the "wrong" side of the car, but has zero interest in driving it ever. He always wants to get behind the wheel of the Jeep and go offroading, climb up the gullies and rocks, and splash through the mudpits.

Not sorry for the minor rant. "How can you afford that?" is usually just a thinly veiled "how can you be so irresponsible? You need a minivan or SUV!" in my experience, and I cannot abide that sentiment. I can afford these things because I've owned the car since before I met my wife, because she bought my Jeep as a (cheap) gift from her friend, because she traded her crappy CUV in for her Jeep and made a profit on the transaction, because I paid less for the sandrail than for my Viking.

How can YOU afford to prioritize convenience, comfort, and blandness over fun, skill, and new experiences? In ANY aspect of life? What lessons does that teach?

wow, well said. im not a father, but your point is excellent.

another point i'd add to this is that in the modern era, we worship "practicality" to an impractical level. everyone, all the time, must have a car that can take 5 people, have at least 4 doors, and carry camping gear, 300+ miles, in comfort, in 16 inches of snow, and if you don't ... why did you bother buying it at all?

when i first got into cars, i bought a GTI (mk6), excellent little car. but after a year of owning it, realized that i had to go out of my way, to use its hatchback form factor. i had to go out of my way, to carry more than one other person, or carry enough stuff to fill more than a small trunk etc etc, and that it was simply silly to pay so much money, for something that i used literally less than 5 times a year. in fact, i don't own a car with a real back seat anymore, have not in 3 years, and never had an issue.

we think we need far more than we need, until we have created such a demand for a device, because we expect 1 car to literally accommodate without hassle, everything we plan to do for the next 2-8 years. thats insane. its perfectly ok to take two trips to home depot to pick up paving stones. saving me that hour or so round trip ... isn't worth buying a bigger car. making it 3 or 4 trips, still doesn't convince me.

im not saying two door sports cars are for everyone, but we all could, scale it back. like a lot.

and, if you want to be clever, we can do far more, with far less, and have more fun because of it. yeah people look at you funny when you are dumping bags of leaves out of your miata at the city dump. yeah, it can be fun to try and figure out how to fit a bookcase in the back of your porsche ... but you can do it.

we simply do not need as much "practicality" as we think we do.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/gerglmuff/IMAG0294_zps7af66546.jpg

thats a bookcase AND a nightstand in the back of my 944.

[blackdeath1k]

⬆⬆⬆⬆. I love it. That's so what I would do. And actually do haul all sorts of things on the bikes. A 4'x8' piece of closed cell foam rolled up down the interstate may be my best.

As far as practicality.. Practicality is in the indevidule. My wife loves her 4 door little civic. Me. I prefer small 2 seat cars. I drive my s10 though because I have need for the bed. And not theoretical need. It has stuff in it off and on weekly. Could I use a trailer. Probably. But I really hate that even more. So a small truck it is. It will take some major life changes for us to consider anything bigger than her civic though. It will hold 4 normal sized people fine. Gets almost 40mpg consistant. 45 at times. And she enjoys it. Together if we ever have a need for a vehicle bigger than her civic. We can rent one.

Here is my little playtoy. I sold it only to buy a house. Before we got married. And when I had it. It was my daily driver. http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah54/Blackdeath1k/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG00005-20090815-1617_zpssyyuii2h.jpg (http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/Blackdeath1k/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG00005-20090815-1617_zpssyyuii2h.jpg.html)

[cougar20th]

Cars, Got several.
The current fastest since I sold my supercharged MonteCarlo SS is now my 1989 Tbird Supercoupe.

Others are
1964 F100
1969 Mustang Mach 1
1987 Mercury Cougar
1988 Iroc Camaro Convertible
2001 CrownVic

[cockerpunk]

to expound on my philosophy when it comes to cars, it was this video that changed my life. i watched this video ~5 years ago, and decided, it was stupid to keep modifying my car to make it go faster. instead, a far better investment, is learning to drive the car better. the cheapest, most economical, way to get a faster car, is improving your driving. im not say modding cars is dumb and insane HP builds are silly, almost every car i have is modified quite highly, im simply saying, that driving is more important than modding EVERY time. and rather than being a sunk cost, one you can never get back, being a better driver travels with you from car to car, through your lifetime.

its no secret how to build fast cars. it really just takes money. wrenching is one thing, but you can pay for wrenching too. when the rubber meets the road though, its the driving that determines how quick your car is.

without further ado, the insane 470hp narrowbody 911, on 80s tires ... driven to the limit:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSMCfPASImQ

i love watching his inputs ... dat wheel control ....

[flampaint]

I am far from owning one, but if money were no object I would pick one of these beauties any day over any car out there. (I've been lucky enough to be able to whip other people's 458s and Berlinettas around a racetrack without regard for wear and tear, so I've had my share of racing and driving experience)
Convenience? Usability? pah! Nonsense... this is about having fun driving :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1PK0hVGGg4

[cockerpunk]

more slow cars driven fast:

winter miata is best miata:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/gerglmuff/cars/1509677_951575508254719_3267200147107444274_n_zpsw 1cbzlmc.jpg (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/gerglmuff/media/cars/1509677_951575508254719_3267200147107444274_n_zpsw 1cbzlmc.jpg.html)

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/gerglmuff/cars/24127650916_f2a400afff_o%201_zps3co9jppj.jpg (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/gerglmuff/media/cars/24127650916_f2a400afff_o%201_zps3co9jppj.jpg.html)

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/gerglmuff/cars/23525858634_8f6f16e96f_o_zpsliuxswhl.jpg (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/gerglmuff/media/cars/23525858634_8f6f16e96f_o_zpsliuxswhl.jpg.html)

[FlawleZ]

Well its not 1000HP Corvette or Cadillac like some others here. But, it was built AND tuned 100% by me. ;-D S

Just an old 80's 300ZX making 545 RWHP 540 TQ.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/FlawleZ/Decorated%20images/matt-z31-233_s.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/FlawleZ/media/Decorated%20images/matt-z31-233_s.jpg.html)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/FlawleZ/Decorated%20images/matt-z31-236_t.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/FlawleZ/media/Decorated%20images/matt-z31-236_t.jpg.html)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJa5qr4RIIM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DN7zgLzNi9A

[Automag Ranger]

Well its not 1000HP Corvette or Cadillac like some others here. But, it was built AND tuned 100% by me. ;-D S

Just an old 80's 300ZX making 545 RWHP 540 TQ.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/FlawleZ/Decorated%20images/matt-z31-233_s.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/FlawleZ/media/Decorated%20images/matt-z31-233_s.jpg.html)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/FlawleZ/Decorated%20images/matt-z31-236_t.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/FlawleZ/media/Decorated%20images/matt-z31-236_t.jpg.html)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJa5qr4RIIM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DN7zgLzNi9A

That's awesome. Very impressive little car that probably hurt a lot of feelings. I'd certainly enjoy looking at pics of this over a Miata any day.

[blackdeath1k]

Sweet potato car flaw.

[FlawleZ]

Thanks guys! Though, I don't know what a "potato car" is lol

[cockerpunk]

im sad the z32 is more popular and liked by Z car folks than the z31. the z31 is just a fantastic classic lined car. i am partial to my 80s turbos though ... haha

i've wanted an FC turbo for a long time. someday. and sad to say, but a starion too. #givemeallthe80sboxedflaredturbos

[cockerpunk]

lo and behold there is a beautiful FC for sale on racing junk ... http://www.racingjunk.com/Other/182611469/1986-RX7-Turbo-Street-Road-Race-Drag-Drift-Auto-cross-.html

[cockerpunk]

this is a local guy, STR national champ, in a studded tire s2000 on ice .... holy crap he is good:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJ0_XSV7BXs

[FlawleZ]

im sad the z32 is more popular and liked by Z car folks than the z31. the z31 is just a fantastic classic lined car. i am partial to my 80s turbos though ... haha

i've wanted an FC turbo for a long time. someday. and sad to say, but a starion too. #givemeallthe80sboxedflaredturbos

But that's actually a good thing for those who are aware what a gem these cars actually are. Their resale value although increasing, is quite low so it's easy to grab one cheap for a project.

[cockerpunk]

But that's actually a good thing for those who are aware what a gem these cars actually are. Their resale value although increasing, is quite low so it's easy to grab one cheap for a project.

there is a combination of 2 things going on there:

1. as cars become more computer games than cars, those who want a full analogue experience have to look to older, lighter, more pure breed cars.

2. the 20-30 year delay. classic muscle car resale is fading from its high 10 years ago. this is because the guys who grew up wanting those cars, are now fading from the hobby, meanwhile the guys who grew up wanting 80s and 90s sports cars are now getting the age where they can easily afford and live with them, so they are buying them up.

[FlawleZ]

im sad the z32 is more popular and liked by Z car folks than the z31. the z31 is just a fantastic classic lined car. i am partial to my 80s turbos though ... haha

i've wanted an FC turbo for a long time. someday. and sad to say, but a starion too. #givemeallthe80sboxedflaredturbos


there is a combination of 2 things going on there:

1. as cars become more computer games than cars, those who want a full analogue experience have to look to older, lighter, more pure breed cars.

2. the 20-30 year delay. classic muscle car resale is fading from its high 10 years ago. this is because the guys who grew up wanting those cars, are now fading from the hobby, meanwhile the guys who grew up wanting 80s and 90s sports cars are now getting the age where they can easily afford and live with them, so they are buying them up.

I completely agree. Although I have much respect for the muscle car era here in the US, and can appreciate most, the large majority of them drive like dump trucks. They were exciting back then because the regular cars were even worse than dump trucks. Some were legitimately quick but most were quite slow. Yet this odd perception still exists among many that they were so much greater than that.

[cockerpunk]

I completely agree. Although I have much respect for the muscle car era here in the US, and can appreciate most, the large majority of them drive like dump trucks. They were exciting back then because the regular cars were even worse than dump trucks. Some were legitimately quick but most were quite slow. Yet this odd perception still exists among many that they were so much greater than that.

i wasn't even commenting on the cars themselves, but by and large, old muscle cars drive like crap, and arn't very fast anymore (remember SAE-net corrected power neutered the HP claims on these engines badly, and they are f'kin heavy), and the handling/brakes are pretty much awful in every way. can't tell you the number of old guys who tell me about there old mustang that accelerated so fast you couldn't lean forward and touch the windshield, and you look it up and the car did 0-60 in 6 and change. a v6 accord is that fast.

i do like a lot of the pro-touring style done up muscle cars. those are pretty awesome. but then thats modern everything, wheels, tires, brakes, multi-link suspensions, EFI ...

away, i was more commenting on the fact that old muscle cars, were long before my time. and since they were not around when i was a kid, my bedroom wall posters weren't old muscle cars, they were 80s Porsches, Z cars, Mr2s etc etc and so now that my demographic is getting to the sports car age in terms of money, and garage space, those are the cars that are picking up value.

and the folks who were kids in the muscle car era, are all leaving the sports car marketplace, because they are too old for it. so resale is dropping there.

[cockerpunk]

case and point:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncJVyu-JQhE

[tuner92]

Since I'm a car guy I guess I'll throw in what I drive
First is a built 08 sti. This is my 6th Subaru
http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd425/tuner625/DSC_0221.jpg (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/tuner625/media/DSC_0221.jpg.html)
Second built 93 Toyota supra turbo
http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd425/tuner625/DSC_0032.jpg (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/tuner625/media/DSC_0032.jpg.html)
And third is my 7th subaru its an 02 wrx, this is my project car right now picked up for 700 bucks still runs and drives great just had a fuel leak.
Thinking lifted with this one.
http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd425/tuner625/20150617_121150.jpg (http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/tuner625/media/20150617_121150.jpg.html)

[cockerpunk]

you should totally build a bug-eye rally car. a good friend of mine runs a lifted WRX in rally cross, cheap and great platform. lots of video of that car in the ice fun videos i've posted.

[wetwrks]

No driving it today...or recently with all the snow for that matter...

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/wetwrks/91b77da0996cab4610b66c9278d9cf8c.jpg

[cockerpunk]

you should totally build a bug-eye rally car. a good friend of mine runs a lifted WRX in rally cross, cheap and great platform. lots of video of that car in the ice fun videos i've posted.

this being said, sounds like he just blew his center diff on the polar run last weekend (snowy road rally). opps.

[Automag Ranger]

No driving it today...or recently with all the snow for that matter...

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/wetwrks/91b77da0996cab4610b66c9278d9cf8c.jpg

Where do you live?

[wetwrks]

Where do you live?

Colorado

[Automag Ranger]

Colorado

Me too. The Springs.

[wetwrks]

Me too. The Springs.

Nice...north end of Denver metro here

[Automag Ranger]

Nice...north end of Denver metro here

I was supposed to go to Denver tomorrow to do another pulley swap, retune and dyno, but I can't get out of my neighborhood.

[wetwrks]

I was supposed to go to Denver tomorrow to do another pulley swap, retune and dyno, but I can't get out of my neighborhood.

Lol...I was supposed to go to downtown Denver to work tomorrow but called off because of the snow as well.

[Frizzle Fry]

No driving it today...or recently with all the snow for that matter...

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/wetwrks/91b77da0996cab4610b66c9278d9cf8c.jpg

Didn't know you were a vette guy too...

http://i63.tinypic.com/2j179ck.jpg

And with the stock rims restored...

http://i63.tinypic.com/okxwzk.jpg

[Xmagterror]

92244

This is what XMT is going to be rolling in once i get it done. Nelson racing twin turbo 402 LS1, mendeola transaxle. 1000HP. 2001 diablo 6.0 replica with tube chassis...best of everything.

[Njt11]

1989 Toyota Supra turbo. Roughly 480 whp.

92245

[Automag Ranger]

92244

This is what XMT is going to be rolling in once i get it done. Nelson racing twin turbo 402 LS1, mendeola transaxle. 1000HP. 2001 diablo 6.0 replica with tube chassis...best of everything.


1989 Toyota Supra turbo. Roughly 480 whp.

92245

Very nice rides! Waiting for CockerPunk to tell you how worthless your cars are though.

[Xmagterror]

fast cars are for slow drivers....bahahaha
sounds like something a guy with a slow car would say. Yep this is going to start a flame war...who cares!!!
Horsepower never goes out of style.

[keiko_819]

twin turbo 402 LS1.

This is all I need to hear...:headbang::hail:

[Xmagterror]

This is all I need to hear...:headbang::hail:

LOL...Im building it all myself....Miles of custom billet. Im making my own wheels from billet. Cougar20th on here is doing the design work for me, were both car nuts.

[cockerpunk]

Very nice rides! Waiting for CockerPunk to tell you how worthless your cars are though.

???

cars are for driving, and i think its a shame when an awesome car, is not driven flat out. and you can really only do that, at a track.


fast cars are for slow drivers....bahahaha
sounds like something a guy with a slow car would say. Yep this is going to start a flame war...who cares!!!
Horsepower never goes out of style.

remember playing paintball? its not the gun someone is shooting that makes them dangerous on the field, its the talent behind that gun. same exact thing in the car world. the talent behind the wheel is what never goes out of style. give the guy a splatmaster or a ego, hes gonna be dangerous on the field, same thing of a good driver.

horsepower goes out of style when you get passed on the road course by someone with half the horsepower. just like your awesome custom one of one ego goes out of style when you get gogged in a gunfight by a pumper.

i dont get why this is such a tough concept for car folks, and esp folks who are paintball players too. its not insulting to someone's nice gun to say that talent wins paintballs games and not how nice your guns is, why do car folks, who also play paintball, get butthurt when you say talent wins car races, not what car you built?

[boo]

Just like there are many forms of paintball playing and tinkering there is the same with cars.

Horsepower does matter, just like balls per second matter. Even if your not going to use 30+ bps or 700+ hp there's no denying the awesome engineering achievement to do it reliably. I mean its no surprise most automag guys would appreciate this aspect of cars based on the markers we tune.

After fast cars I got into sportbikes for a long time. It's easy for me to say car people are stupid because mine accelerates, corners, and stops quicker then all yours, but it's about the total package. Just because you appreciate one type of car or motorsport doesn't mean its better then another type.

What's your opinion on drag racing? If you think road racing is superior or takes more skill I would disagree. Its just different skills.

[cockerpunk]

Just like there are many forms of paintball playing and tinkering there is the same with cars.

Horsepower does matter, just like balls per second matter. Even if your not going to use 30+ bps or 700+ hp there's no denying the awesome engineering achievement to do it reliably. I mean its no surprise most automag guys would appreciate this aspect of cars based on the markers we tune.

After fast cars I got into sportbikes for a long time. It's easy for me to say car people are stupid because mine accelerates, corners, and stops quicker then all yours, but it's about the total package. Just because you appreciate one type of car or motorsport doesn't mean its better then another type.

What's your opinion on drag racing? If you think road racing is superior or takes more skill I would disagree. Its just different skills.

idk where you get that i think building high powered cars is stupid. every car i own is anywhere from fairly, to heavily modified, and power is a key part of that. i love lurkers 500+ rwhp e30, awesome car.

i just think the best investment of time and money is on seat time at HPDEs. just like recommending to someone to buy a mid end setup, and use the rest of the money to actually play paintball is better advice than blowing all your money on a top of the line setup. the skills you learn throwing cars around, even slower ones, will translate with you, and grow through your life, just like learning to play paintball, with a lower end setup will translate to when you go buy something super high end. i simply give folks getting into cars the same advice, buy something RWD, manual, and light weight, and go learn to drive it. not go out and buy a ripper geo and shoot it in your backyard.

the plan for the spyder is simple, finish the chassis off this year (double adjustable koni race coilovers, LSD transaxle), and then next year 350rwhp. in a (in SSM trim with driver) 1950lbs car ... thats a ****ing rocket. i have no problem with and LOVE high power cars. one of my favorite cars ever to drive is my friends v8 swapped 944, its a riot. horsepower is great, but its not the be-all end all of cars. driving them is the be-all end-all of cars. like actually playing paintball is the point of paintball, not collecting and building guns.

[Automag Ranger]

horsepower is great, but its not the be-all end all of cars. driving them is the be-all end-all of cars. like actually playing paintball is the point of paintball, not collecting and building guns.

No, just no. That is the be-all, end all for YOU. Stop trying to speak for everyone because it's clear most disagree with you. I find plenty of times EVERY DAY that I use all 800 rwhp to and from work.

[boo]

HPDE's do not make you a better driver in anything outside of HPDE's. It's not an investment, its one way to play with a car. Just like there's speedball and woodsball.

There are a lot of ways to enjoy a car. Stop making it sound like unless you're gutting your interior and setting your suspension to be unbearable on normal roads so you can go around the track every weekend your not fully enjoying your car. What you enjoy is not the same as everyone else.

[blackdeath1k]

Boo hit the nail on the head. I've personally got 3 bikes. One is a relatively stock hyabusa performance wise. I own it for me and the wife and commuting. It's big and heavy. Corners OK. Not great. And is lacking in power for my taste. Can I drag knee on it..and do? Yes. Can I outride almost all the local in the corners on it? Yes. But its not my first choice for that.

My gsxr600 is my play bike that I wear full leathers with and go out dragging knee with all my non local roadraces buddies. Although my 6 has the least power its lots of fun and handles well. In curves I'll wax all the locals with bigger bikes. Some of that is ability. Some is the lightness and flickability of the bike.

Then we have my 64" log wagon drag bike. It started life as gsxr1000. Now it's anything but. I need a football field to turn it around. Bars don't turn. It sits on the ground. Plastic seat. Rigid suspension. And 200+ HP without turbo or a bottle. It's fun on the street in a strait line. But that's about it. Yet I always enjoy riding it and it always puts a smile on my face simply because of all my time and hard work in it. And the looks it gets out on the street.

Also with my 6 at the dragstrip I can outrun pretty much all the wannabees with big bikes because I know how to race and they really don't.

In the end though. If you personally enjoy a certain car or bike then great. Who cares what stats it has. If you have always lusted after a 80s VW rabbit. Then more power to you. That also goes for the people that collect and don't really use. Some collect paint ball guns. Yet don't really play anymore. Who is to say what one is supposed to do with anything.

[cockerpunk]

HPDE's do not make you a better driver in anything outside of HPDE's. It's not an investment, its one way to play with a car. Just like there's speedball and woodsball.

There are a lot of ways to enjoy a car. Stop making it sound like unless you're gutting your interior and setting your suspension to be unbearable on normal roads so you can go around the track every weekend your not fully enjoying your car. What you enjoy is not the same as everyone else.

BS

the point and purpose of an HPDE is to get your car to the edge of control, possibly even past it, for as long and hard as possible.

this, BY DEFINITION, makes you a better driver. you have more experience with cars at, and beyond the limit of grip. this is not really possible on the street. i've spun my mr2 probably 40 times over the last 3 years. i've spun my 944 at least 30 times, and just today, i spun my miata 4 times, and have easily spun that car 100 times. ALL under controlled and safe conditions. and its because im pushing to a level of driving that you simply never risk on the street, because the cost of spinning is thousands of dollars, and possibly your life. so its not really possible to push a car to its limits and beyond reliably, on the street.

i didn't say you need to gut your car, or make your suspension unbearable, in fact, i've advocated for the exact opposite. why does everyone think you need to buy things in order to have fun in cars? in fact the best advice is LEAVE YOUR CAR STOCK, and do a few events before you decide what it needs. and i do fully think that if you have a car, and you do not track it, then you are not enjoying it to its fullest. like buying a great paintball gun, and only ever shooting it in your backyard. its a tragedy to me to see amazing builds sit in parking lots with the hood up, and the only extreme driving they see is a little burnout out of the car show. just sad ...

anyway, i spent today up on the lake:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/gerglmuff/cars/10321585_1758931560992382_8150592983919500185_o_zp s7lsms2cz.jpg (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/gerglmuff/media/cars/10321585_1758931560992382_8150592983919500185_o_zp s7lsms2cz.jpg.html)

car needs an oil cooler, just about cooked the oil on a few long sessions of hot lapping. smoking evos and STIs on the ice though is just too much fun.

[cockerpunk]

when i instruct at the track, after the first session, new drivers almost always ask me "what do you think i should upgrade next?"

and i tell them, buy tires and seat time. 99% of the time you dont need to touch the car, the limiting factor in performance, is the driver, not the car.


same thing in paintball right? new players who want to upgrade everything after the first time playing ... you tell them same thing, entry and paint, just keep on actually playing, your gun isnt holding you back, you are holding yourself back.

im confused why such a simple statement gets so many folks up in arms. esp from presumably paintball players, paintball is exactly the same ...

[psunitro]

Really, the point of a car is DRIVING it. That is WHAT CP is saying. To me, 800 HP is great. But when you cant use 90% of it...ehhh. Not that I disagree with building a car such as this, I would spend my $$ in other ways. Id don't see CP as pushing his way on you, or any of us. But I tend to agree with him on this.

[Nobody]

It is not vetting up or passed the edge, its controlling the vehicle right up to that point. Loosing control isnever what you want. That is why you improve the suspension to be more planted, better tires to have traction, a better drivetrain to handle more horse power.

Running road courses or circle tracks does mean skill, yet running an all out in an off road race or rally racing, or endurance racing. It is all different disciplines, where one is not any better or worse than any other. We all have preferences to what we enjoy to watch and do. Whether it is tractor pulls for the shead horsepower, drag racing for the fastest 4secs, motoGP for the big air, Formula 1 for the names, or Nascar the repetition and many others not mentioned.

What you think does not mean the end all. Why do you think so many famous drivers switch to different series(Parnelli Jones, AJ Foyt, Mario Andretti).

[cockerpunk]

It is not vetting up or passed the edge, its controlling the vehicle right up to that point. Loosing control isnever what you want. That is why you improve the suspension to be more planted, better tires to have traction, a better drivetrain to handle more horse power.

Running road courses or circle tracks does mean skill, yet running an all out in an off road race or rally racing, or endurance racing. It is all different disciplines, where one is not any better or worse than any other. We all have preferences to what we enjoy to watch and do. Whether it is tractor pulls for the shead horsepower, drag racing for the fastest 4secs, motoGP for the big air, Formula 1 for the names, or Nascar the repetition and many others not mentioned.

What you think does not mean the end all. Why do you think so many famous drivers switch to different series(Parnelli Jones, AJ Foyt, Mario Andretti).

i agree fully.

thats why i keep it as general as possible, ice racing, rally cross, track driving, autocross, go karting, motorcycle tracking etc ... thats what HPDE means, high performance driving event. you name it. they are all slightly different, but you can bet that anyone good at any one of those, isn't gonna be bad at any of the others ones, and will be better than a pure street only driver every single time. every time.

because, they have experience driving at and beyond the limit. and thats what matter when driving fast, having the experience, the seat time, and the instructor time, of actually driving flat out, full speed. you basically cannot do this on the street.

[Automag Ranger]

To me, 800 HP is great. But when you cant use 90% of it...ehhh.

Maybe you can't handle 90% of it. I use all 100% every single time I drive the car.

And for CP, your comparison between paintball and driving at HPDE is lacking. Shooting in the backyard is more equivalent to doing a burnout. Driving everyday on the street is the same as playing in a game. HPDE would be more equally related to playing speedball only.

HPDE certainly helps you learn specific skills, there is no denying that. But it's not the end all be all. It's your thing. We get it. Speedball isn't everyone's thing.

[cockerpunk]

Maybe you can't handle 90% of it. I use all 100% every single time I drive the car.

And for CP, your comparison between paintball and driving at HPDE is lacking. Shooting in the backyard is more equivalent to doing a burnout. Driving everyday on the street is the same as playing in a game. HPDE would be more equally related to playing speedball only.

HPDE certainly helps you learn specific skills, there is no denying that. But it's not the end all be all. It's your thing. We get it. Speedball isn't everyone's thing.

if in your comparison you are saying that woodsball requires less skill or something silly like that, then it would make sense. but thats ridiculous.

the skills you learn in HPDEs are simply driving skills. you learn to drive better at them. unless you think driving well within the limits of grip is driving, or fun. lol.

street driving isn't like playing a game of paintball, is like sitting in the backyard with your buddies shooting bottles with your paintball gun.

[Automag Ranger]

Dude. Enough. No one cares about your HPDE events. You love them. Awesome!

This thread is about FAST cars. None of your cars are what I would consider fast. Quick, yes. Fast, no. Feel free to see yourself out.

[cockerpunk]

Dude. Enough. No one cares about your HPDE events. You love them. Awesome!

This thread is about FAST cars. None of your cars are what I would consider fast. Quick, yes. Fast, no. Feel free to see yourself out.

>car regularily in the top 5 at events, beating 911 GT3, GTR, 400+ hp mr2 turbo, 550+ hp C6 ....
>not a fast car

http://media2.giphy.com/media/Fml0fgAxVx1eM/giphy.gif

[Automag Ranger]

>car regularily in the top 5 at events, beating 911 GT3, GTR, 400+ hp mr2 turbo, 550+ hp C6
>not a fast car

http://media2.giphy.com/media/Fml0fgAxVx1eM/giphy.gif

There is a distinct difference between quick and fast. Look it up. Your car is not fast.

[cockerpunk]

There is a distinct difference between quick and fast. Look it up. Your car is not fast.

so to be clear, the cars its beaten, are fast cars (by anyone's measure), but its not?

even though it was used to beat them?

..................................... um, k.

[Automag Ranger]

so to be clear, the cars its beaten, are fast cars (by anyone's measure), but its not?

even though it was used to beat them?

..................................... um, k.

This just proves what you know about racing. If you put a fast car that isn't necessarily quick in a quick car sport, it will likely get beaten. Just because you beat a fast car in your specific event, does not mean your car is fast.

Since I have to spell it out for you, a fast car is determined by its trap speed. Unless you're trapping over 130 mph, which none of your cars do, then I would not consider it fast.

[cockerpunk]

This just proves what you know about racing. If you put a fast car that isn't necessarily quick in a quick car sport, it will likely get beaten. Just because you beat a fast car in your specific event, does not mean your car is fast.

Since I have to spell it out for you, a fast car is determined by its trap speed. Unless you're trapping over 130 mph, which none of your cars do, then I would not consider it fast.

are GT3s and GTRs not track cars? are purpose build SSM modded mr2s and C6s not good autocross cars? what about lotus? not really good for either ... humm, maybe i see your point. lol

unless you are doing what you constantly accuse me of doing ... determining what is "fast" and "slow" by a very specific metric ....

[boo]

are GT3s and GTRs not track cars? are purpose build SSM modded mr2s and C6s not good autocross cars? what about lotus? not really good for either ... humm, maybe i see your point. lol

unless you are doing what you constantly accuse me of doing ... determining what is "fast" and "slow" by a very specific metric ....

If your talking beating them on a short autocross type course it's not all that impressive. GT3's and GTR's are set up for road racing, not autocross courses. Most cars that corner well at high speeds will suck at cornering at slow speeds and slaloming. Again, different strokes for different folks. We get it, HPDE is your thing, its not the end all be all to enjoying a car.

Also, race car drivers get in public road accidents all the time. HPDE "masters" are even worse because they have less skills then a professional with even more to prove. Whatever advantage of vehicle dynamics learned through HPDE events is quickly eaten up by a false sense of being able to drive faster around unpredictable corners on public roads. One pothole, slow moving car, gravel, or ice and they're in a ditch. I'm not preaching that all of us here drive like saints, I'm just arguing against any evidence that it will keep you out of accidents. I'm sure you'll argue there was a time when you saved yourself from wiping out, but I'm guessing it was a situation that overconfidence put you in, not adverse road conditions or other drivers. I would say open road truckers are probably more skilled drivers on public roads then an HPDE fanboy, simply because they log more miles on public roads.

There is something to be said about learning accident avoidance, and yes, there are specific HPDE's that relate to only that subject. I would say that would help, and any HPDE where you learn your vehicle dynamics at its limit would help, but it's diminishing returns and definitely not the end all be all for public road safety.

Back on the subject, all we're saying is slow cars are not fast just because they do good at one specific area of motorsports. visa vis fast cars are not slow because the driver isn't as experienced in one type of motorsport or the car is not set up or built to excel in that motorsport. You're basically making the claim that because you are really skilled at one niche area of motorsports your slow cars are fast. That's like just because you can shoot a mechanical cocker really fast it's a better gun then an Ego for speedball. Sure, you might be able to beat a noob with a mechanical cocker on a speedball court even if they have an Ego, but if you go against a pro you're going to be outgunned.

[Nobody]

What Gordo is trying to say is this. If you take 2 equal cars, whether they are 100hp put-put mobiles or 1000hp tuned monsters, the skill of the driver is what can extract the most out of either car, in any situation. The unskilled driver won't be able to understand how to go into a corner properly or be late on the breaking, or keeping up speed in the corner; as well as keeping the tires from breaking loose, using proper throttle control and know where and when to punch it.

If you look at history, look at the mid 60s sports car battles between the Mini Cooper & the Ford Falcons. Big horsepower versus quick light cars. That was a battle between 2 different dogmas of motorsports. It was said, you could pick the winner of the race(at least brand of car) by the distance of the last turn to the finish line. With that, here is the translation into paintball.

Each discipline of paintball, whether pump(even going into stock class, modified SC or unlimited pump), mech or electros: each gun used requires a certain set of skills. You can take a world class speedballer, put him in the woods with a SC pump and he will generally get his butt handed to him, likewise a pump player using an electro won't be as good(though the ttransition is much easier, IMO) on the air field. Yet it is understanding that each class has a certain set of skills to be deemed good at, that you would keed to work at to maintain the highest levels of play within each class, pumping and shooting with your off hand, for example. It is ultimately the skill of the player who can understand the 1st AND translate that knowledge to the field, who should be the victor in 90% of the situations.

But that is only if those players wish to challenge themselves for those skill levels. As paintball is a loose confederation of recreational players that all.play for different reasons, there is no one or multiple licenses(like in motorsports) which the player needs to achieve before earning a place in that class. That in itself, is the biggest obstacle to paintball; the lack of consolidated structures for even competitive or semi-competitive rankings. You can play every weekend at your field and the only challenge would be the gun you're using, the amount of paint you wish to shoot and the apparent skill level of your group at the field. That of course is a different topic all together.

So back to topic, in a road course, where all aspects of a car are put to the test, a less powerful car, but one that can be run to the limit should always beat the car that is up and down on the throttle, hence Gordo's mantra of "slow cars are faster". I do understand what and why Gordo is saying that, but there is no 1 car, no one type, no one race that best exemplifies that.

So it all boils down to what you like, and how you like to drive it. If you have a 800hp monster that you like to do 20mph on the downtown strip. Go for it. If you can actually get to a track day and turn that puppy inside out, great for you. But you are not going to sell ice racing to the people in Cali or FLA. Simple as that.

[Automag Ranger]

What Gordo is trying to say is this. If you take 2 equal cars, whether they are 100hp put-put mobiles or 1000hp tuned monsters, the skill of the driver is what can extract the most out of either car, in any situation. The unskilled driver won't be able to understand how to go into a corner properly or be late on the breaking, or keeping up speed in the corner; as well as keeping the tires from breaking loose, using proper throttle control and know where and when to punch it.

If you look at history, look at the mid 60s sports car battles between the Mini Cooper & the Ford Falcons. Big horsepower versus quick light cars. That was a battle between 2 different dogmas of motorsports. It was said, you could pick the winner of the race(at least brand of car) by the distance of the last turn to the finish line. With that, here is the translation into paintball.

Each discipline of paintball, whether pump(even going into stock class, modified SC or unlimited pump), mech or electros: each gun used requires a certain set of skills. You can take a world class speedballer, put him in the woods with a SC pump and he will generally get his butt handed to him, likewise a pump player using an electro won't be as good(though the ttransition is much easier, IMO) on the air field. Yet it is understanding that each class has a certain set of skills to be deemed good at, that you would keed to work at to maintain the highest levels of play within each class, pumping and shooting with your off hand, for example. It is ultimately the skill of the player who can understand the 1st AND translate that knowledge to the field, who should be the victor in 90% of the situations.

But that is only if those players wish to challenge themselves for those skill levels. As paintball is a loose confederation of recreational players that all.play for different reasons, there is no one or multiple licenses(like in motorsports) which the player needs to achieve before earning a place in that class. That in itself, is the biggest obstacle to paintball; the lack of consolidated structures for even competitive or semi-competitive rankings. You can play every weekend at your field and the only challenge would be the gun you're using, the amount of paint you wish to shoot and the apparent skill level of your group at the field. That of course is a different topic all together.

So back to topic, in a road course, where all aspects of a car are put to the test, a less powerful car, but one that can be run to the limit should always beat the car that is up and down on the throttle, hence Gordo's mantra of "slow cars are faster". I do understand what and why Gordo is saying that, but there is no 1 car, no one type, no one race that best exemplifies that.

So it all boils down to what you like, and how you like to drive it. If you have a 800hp monster that you like to do 20mph on the downtown strip. Go for it. If you can actually get to a track day and turn that puppy inside out, great for you. But you are not going to sell ice racing to the people in Cali or FLA. Simple as that.

Have you see the title of this thread? I don't really care what CP is trying to say, as this thread is about fast cars. If I created a thread about high-end, electro markers and CP came in blabbing about pumps, then you could clearly see that he is taking the thread off course.

Frankly, I haven't seen you post a fast car of your own. No need to come in here and defend your boyfriend. All you need to do is post a pic and some stats of your fast car. If you don't have one, then move on, or the two of you can happily create your own threat about HPDE events and how they are God's gift to man.

[psunitro]

Seriously. Fast is freakin relative. Its a open forum, and it open to the public to discuss the topic. If someone comes in and posts up stuff that you don't like, move on, dont read it.
I happen to like most motorsports. Cars tuned to the max within a rulebook to pull out tenths of a second for a win.

When I say you cant use 90% of the 800 HP, do I REALLY have to spell it out?

[Automag Ranger]

Seriously. Fast is freakin relative. Its a open forum, and it open to the public to discuss the topic. If someone comes in and posts up stuff that you don't like, move on, dont read it.
I happen to like most motorsports. Cars tuned to the max within a rulebook to pull out tenths of a second for a win.

When I say you cant use 90% of the 800 HP, do I REALLY have to spell it out?

The topic is about fast cars, not HPDE. It's not that I dislike the topic; it's that the posts are off topic. Fast cars. Not quick car events. Apparently I have to spell that out for you.

[cockerpunk]

If your talking beating them on a short autocross type course it's not all that impressive. GT3's and GTR's are set up for road racing, not autocross courses. Most cars that corner well at high speeds will suck at cornering at slow speeds and slaloming. Again, different strokes for different folks. We get it, HPDE is your thing, its not the end all be all to enjoying a car.

Also, race car drivers get in public road accidents all the time. HPDE "masters" are even worse because they have less skills then a professional with even more to prove. Whatever advantage of vehicle dynamics learned through HPDE events is quickly eaten up by a false sense of being able to drive faster around unpredictable corners on public roads. One pothole, slow moving car, gravel, or ice and they're in a ditch. I'm not preaching that all of us here drive like saints, I'm just arguing against any evidence that it will keep you out of accidents. I'm sure you'll argue there was a time when you saved yourself from wiping out, but I'm guessing it was a situation that overconfidence put you in, not adverse road conditions or other drivers. I would say open road truckers are probably more skilled drivers on public roads then an HPDE fanboy, simply because they log more miles on public roads.

There is something to be said about learning accident avoidance, and yes, there are specific HPDE's that relate to only that subject. I would say that would help, and any HPDE where you learn your vehicle dynamics at its limit would help, but it's diminishing returns and definitely not the end all be all for public road safety.

Back on the subject, all we're saying is slow cars are not fast just because they do good at one specific area of motorsports. visa vis fast cars are not slow because the driver isn't as experienced in one type of motorsport or the car is not set up or built to excel in that motorsport. You're basically making the claim that because you are really skilled at one niche area of motorsports your slow cars are fast. That's like just because you can shoot a mechanical cocker really fast it's a better gun then an Ego for speedball. Sure, you might be able to beat a noob with a mechanical cocker on a speedball court even if they have an Ego, but if you go against a pro you're going to be outgunned.

i've beaten them on road courses too.

that is why you do not push cars to the limit on the street. thank you for proving my point why anyone who only drives on the street cannot push there car to the limits. and they simply do not have that level of experience.

and yes, you are simply doing what you have accused me of over and over again, using a very specific metric to determine in a car is fast or not. thats the great thing about road racing, and really, any kind of racing in general .... the time sheets are in black and white. no need for magazine racing, no need for internet forum bragging rights ... the time sheets say who is fast and who isn't. "fast" isn't a horsepower number, or a power to weight, or even a drag strip time .... fast is beating the other guy.

[Nobody]

Have you see the title of this thread? I don't really care what CP is trying to say, as this thread is about fast cars. If I created a thread about high-end, electro markers and CP came in blabbing about pumps, then you could clearly see that he is taking the thread off course.

Frankly, I haven't seen you post a fast car of your own. No need to come in here and defend your boyfriend. All you need to do is post a pic and some stats of your fast car. If you don't have one, then move on, or the two of you can happily create your own threat about HPDE events and how they are God's gift to man.

I do not have a fast car. So i have no picture to post. It does not mean i don't have an opinion on the subject. I have worked on fast car that friends have used. I have done a drive line swap in my 97 F150 to go from a 4.2 V6 auto to a 4.6 V8 stick. Most of my wrenching goes to 4wd trucks and jeeps, which are not built for speed, more for power.

Yet do not triffle with me. I am being nice here. I can easily turn my ire towards you. I do prefer usable horsepower.

[Automag Ranger]

I do not have a fast car. So i have no picture to post. It does not mean i don't have an opinion on the subject. I have worked on fast car that friends have used. I have done a drive line swap in my 97 F150 to go from a 4.2 V6 auto to a 4.6 V8 stick. Most of my wrenching goes to 4wd trucks and jeeps, which are not built for speed, more for power.

Yet do not triffle with me. I am being nice here. I can easily turn my ire towards you. I do prefer usable horsepower.

I appreciate that you're being nice here, but internet tough guys don't scare me. I kill bad people for a living, hence part of my screen name. I promise I've seen a lot worse than the likes of you or anyone else on this forum.

And my car's power is 100% usable in a straight line, which is where I prefer to drive. Long back roads to and from work give me plenty of opportunity to stretch my legs. If fast cars aren't you're thing, then great! If going around corners on a small track are you're thing, great! But let's keep the topic on fast cars.

[cockerpunk]

Have you see the title of this thread? I don't really care what CP is trying to say, as this thread is about fast cars. If I created a thread about high-end, electro markers and CP came in blabbing about pumps, then you could clearly see that he is taking the thread off course.

Frankly, I haven't seen you post a fast car of your own. No need to come in here and defend your boyfriend. All you need to do is post a pic and some stats of your fast car. If you don't have one, then move on, or the two of you can happily create your own threat about HPDE events and how they are God's gift to man.

lol, if you followed any other threads on these boards, you'd know that nobody and i almost never, in fact i think this might actually be the first time we've ever agreed on anything before.

also, what if he was my boyfriend? what if i was gay? lol, pathetic.

im not gods gift to man behind the wheel, im a mid pack driver in a good car. that is why is continuously post BETTER drivers than myself, because that is what i aspire to be. the guy in that ice s2000 video, is amazing, and might actually be god's gift to man behind the wheel, he regularly, in a stock power, koni coilovers, s2000, sets fastest time of the day, on ice, over 400+ hp evos and STIs. sure, i can knock off the poor drivers in AWD cars in my RWD on ice, he regularly beats the best in AWD, with his RWD, on ice.

that is talent, and it far surpasses my own. no **** hes a national title winning driver.

there is an E-street driver locally, also runs a spyder, and last year, would regularly beat me in my highly modified car. an E street car is basically a stock car, very little allowable modifications, but the guy is just that good. proud to say i've improved because neither of us modified our cars much this year, and i got better enough to not let him beat me anymore, but again, its obvious he is clearly the better driver, and a guy i want to learn from. im quicker than him now, but mostly because i've got the faster car, normalized for our cars, he's still kicking my butt.

there is always someone faster. and that isn't a sad thing, it means there is more to learn.

[cockerpunk]

I appreciate that you're being nice here, but internet tough guys don't scare me. I kill bad people for a living, hence part of my screen name. I promise I've seen a lot worse than the likes of you or anyone else on this forum.

And my car's power is 100% usable in a straight line, which is where I prefer to drive. Long back roads to and from work give me plenty of opportunity to stretch my legs. If fast cars aren't you're thing, then great! If going around corners on a small track are you're thing, great! But let's keep the topic on fast cars.

again, i'd think someone who has been there and done that, would understand the difference between playing around on the street, and actually racing. just like the difference between playing army, bolting a million things on there ARs, and actually going and killing bad people.

why is this such a confusing/offensive topic to so many car folks? it really is quite simple. and i would think being a ranger, and a paintball player, you'd understand the exact concept we are talking about.


also, on long straight back-roads, unless you are top ending your car, its your courage (both from safety, and from a legal standpoint), not the limits of the car, that are holding you back. you can do 135 mph in a 250 hp GTI, you don't need 500+ hp to drive that fast. and this of course assumes you are a big enough moron to do 100+ on public streets regularly, which, i hope if only for our nations sake, you arn't dumb enough to do.

[Automag Ranger]

also, what if he was my boyfriend? what if i was gay? lol, pathetic.

You're right. I took that one a little far. Just seemed like a good buddy of yours.


There is always someone faster. and that isn't a sad thing, it means there is more to learn.

True and unfortunately the reason I keep putting money into my cars.

[cockerpunk]

True and unfortunately the reason I keep putting money into my cars.

see, i used to think like that. just buy/mod a faster car right?

thats the "well if i just upgrade from my axe to an geo, then i can play div 3 right?" thought process. nope, it doesn't work like that. your 500+ hp car isn't holding you back. just like the axe isn't holding that 3rd time out paintball player back.

there is always someone faster, that means there is more to LEARN.


just to throw another grenade into this thread, for street use, i actually prefer as low grip, and low limits of a car as possible. because a car becomes fun when you get to the limits of grip, and even bolting on a decent set of summer tires on a stock miata means you are having to do double the speed limit in order to feel anything at all from the car. for street use, im all about low performance cars, allows you to actually drive them to there limit on the street without going to jail, or killing yourself.

now racing? i want everything under me that i can afford and/or the limits of the rules. because it matters when the seconds are ticking away. everything matters then, so it better be the best you can muster.

but out on the back-roads for ****s and giggles? gimmie a stock miata on snow tires with 3 inches of snow please! or in the summer time, i'll take the same car, with some nice, Chinese off brand all season hard as rock tires please. don't even care what suspension or power mods, doesn't matter. a nice small, light, RWD car, with low grip? nothing more fun in the world than that.

[cockerpunk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqhHPssCXMA

totally new driver, slow car, with good instruction, ON ALL SEASON TIRES ... smoking STIs and M cars ...

skill > stats

[Nobody]

I appreciate that you're being nice here, but internet tough guys don't scare me. I kill bad people for a living, hence part of my screen name. I promise I've seen a lot worse than the likes of you or anyone else on this forum.

And my car's power is 100% usable in a straight line, which is where I prefer to drive. Long back roads to and from work give me plenty of opportunity to stretch my legs. If fast cars aren't you're thing, then great! If going around corners on a small track are you're thing, great! But let's keep the topic on fast cars.

Threats do not endear you to anything that what you proclaim to be against, internet tough guys. Like i said, i am trying to be nice here. And if you are a ranger, run 10 miles for me. That is what rangers do, isn't it?

I am trying to take the wind out of gordo's sails here. Playing into it, well only fuels his fire. Dealt with the miscreant more times than i can count. We are no where close to being friends. Never said i don't like fast cars, just that i tended to build trucks and off road vehicles, and don't have one myself. So stand down yourself.

[knownothingmags]

wow this thread really went this direction.
sad.
Ranger, just let things roll off

[blackdeath1k]

Wow......just wow....... What a sad turn to what started out as a great topic.

[cockerpunk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQ3x462rlmg

NC miata, engine bolts on, street tires, and some aftermarket suspension .... smoking 997 turbos/GT3s without issue .... an insane under 8 minute lap time, with traffic.

SKILL

holy smokes, just flat out, petal to the metal, cookin that little 2 liter ...

[kevdupuis]

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa125/kevdupuis/car/7litre4_zpsddaa2bd3.jpg (http://s202.photobucket.com/user/kevdupuis/media/car/7litre4_zpsddaa2bd3.jpg.html)
Powerful enough for my requirements.

[Xmagterror]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tq3x462rlmg

nc miata, engine bolts on, street tires, and some aftermarket suspension .... Smoking 997 turbos/gt3s without issue .... An insane under 8 minute lap time, with traffic.

Skill

holy smokes, just flat out, petal to the metal, cookin that little 2 liter ...

"skill".......yawn

[Nobody]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQ3x462rlmg

NC miata, engine bolts on, street tires, and some aftermarket suspension .... smoking 997 turbos/GT3s without issue .... an insane under 8 minute lap time, with traffic.

SKILL

holy smokes, just flat out, petal to the metal, cookin that little 2 liter ...

Without looking at the video, i will say that it is an unfair assumption. The miata might be doing a hot lap, where the other cars might be testing the track cor conditions, or 1st time out, or cold tires or even on a cool down lap. That doesn't mean that the Porsches that he is "dusting" are doing the same. If i am in my Hyundai doing 80mph, i will certainly pull away a Corvette doing 50mph, regardless of the horsepower.

Nice try Gordo...

[flampaint]

Without looking at the video, i will say that it is an unfair assumption. The miata might be doing a hot lap, where the other cars might be testing the track cor conditions, or 1st time out, or cold tires or even on a cool down lap. That doesn't mean that the Porsches that he is "dusting" are doing the same. If i am in my Hyundai doing 80mph, i will certainly pull away a Corvette doing 50mph, regardless of the horsepower.

Nice try Gordo...

No matter if the other guys were not going for it as aggressively as this guy. Fact is: a lap-time of less than 08:00 in a car like a Miata (pretty much any road-legal car) is freakin' fantastic! Here is a list of the fastest "road-legal" cars on the Nordschleife (https://nurburgringlaptimes.com/lap-times-top-100/)... This Miata is smokin' fast :D

[cockerpunk]

Without looking at the video, i will say that it is an unfair assumption. The miata might be doing a hot lap, where the other cars might be testing the track cor conditions, or 1st time out, or cold tires or even on a cool down lap. That doesn't mean that the Porsches that he is "dusting" are doing the same. If i am in my Hyundai doing 80mph, i will certainly pull away a Corvette doing 50mph, regardless of the horsepower.

Nice try Gordo...

you should try watching the video :)

also a 7:58 in traffic really speaks for itself. if you are not familar with nurbergring times, look up just how quick a 7:58 really is ... FYI, a porsche 918 spyder only did it a minute faster with a pro-driver, clear traffic, perfect conditions, once.


No matter if the other guys were not going for it as aggressively as this guy. Fact is: a lap-time of less than 08:00 in a car like a Miata (pretty much any road-legal car) is freakin' fantastic! Here is a list of the fastest "road-legal" cars on the Nordschleife (https://nurburgringlaptimes.com/lap-times-top-100/)... This Miata is smokin' fast :D

indeed, the driver is pagani's head test driver, hes fantastic. he has a whole series of these videos, all in the low 8s, high 7s, on the ring, so he can do it consistently with the NC, not like it was a freak one-off hot lap and conditions.

[cockerpunk]

"skill".......yawn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLrpBLDWyCI

[cougar20th]

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa125/kevdupuis/car/7litre4_zpsddaa2bd3.jpg (http://s202.photobucket.com/user/kevdupuis/media/car/7litre4_zpsddaa2bd3.jpg.html)
Powerful enough for my requirements.

Now we are talking. Looks great.

[going_home]

Got an extra 2.6 million ?



http://rack.1.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDE2LzAyLzI3LzgzLzA2X0NISVJPTl8zLjgxYjY2LmpwZw pwCXRodW1iCTEyMDB4OTYwMD4/947c6e23/95e/06_CHIRON_34-rear_WEB.jpg



http://rack.3.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDE2LzAyLzI2LzVmLzAyX2NoaXJvbl8zLmUyZjE2LmpwZw pwCXRodW1iCTg1MHg4NTA-CmUJanBn/b05cf055/47b/02_chiron_34-front_web.jpg

[Xmagterror]

I watched a little bit of that video...I thought that was your cockerpunk. Im just not into it....pretty boring. Its just a little 2L turd car driving fast through gradual turns. The only thing going on there is the guy has enough balls to go that fast.
Its just not my thing...

Remember...........theres no replacement for displacement....and twin turbos....and carbon brakes....LMAO
being a good driver is a given but you also need a car that isnt a freakn crappy ford escort or in that class of cars....IF YOUR GONNA GO, GO BIG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



https://youtu.be/GGXzlRoNtHU

[boo]

Without looking at the video, i will say that it is an unfair assumption. The miata might be doing a hot lap, where the other cars might be testing the track cor conditions, or 1st time out, or cold tires or even on a cool down lap. That doesn't mean that the Porsches that he is "dusting" are doing the same. If i am in my Hyundai doing 80mph, i will certainly pull away a Corvette doing 50mph, regardless of the horsepower.

Nice try Gordo...


The Nurburgring is a public toll road, believe it or not. Because of this you'll get drivers from an assortment of skill levels. The Porsche guy could be just some old dentist thats never raced and wants to take a few scenic laps without getting himself into trouble. Despite it being a public toll road, its probably the most expensive road to wreck or break down on so I totally understand an inexperienced driver not wanting to push beyond their limits.

I've seen enough spec Miata to know the benefits. They are lightweight rear wheel drive cars that handle well and can be bought for under $2k. Therefore you can drive them all out with no regard to wrecking. I heard a quote that spec Miata was the closest to real life gran turismo. Just watch a race, people bump pass and inadvertently cut corners on the grass. Nobodies going lethally fast so they can play oversized cart racing.

Miata's aren't fast, they are disposable so they can be driven faster then you probably should.

[Nobody]

The Nurburgring is a public toll road, believe it or not. Because of this you'll get drivers from an assortment of skill levels. The Porsche guy could be just some old dentist thats never raced and wants to take a few scenic laps without getting himself into trouble. Despite it being a public toll road, its probably the most expensive road to wreck or break down on so I totally understand an inexperienced driver not wanting to push beyond their limits.

I've seen enough spec Miata to know the benefits. They are lightweight rear wheel drive cars that handle well and can be bought for under $2k. Therefore you can drive them all out with no regard to wrecking. I heard a quote that spec Miata was the closest to real life gran turismo. Just watch a race, people bump pass and inadvertently cut corners on the grass. Nobodies going lethally fast so they can play oversized cart racing.

Miata's aren't fast, they are disposable so they can be driven faster then you probably should.

I do know what the Nordschlife is and how some people drive on it. The open track days to the close ciurcut track to the actual race days. Whether its a a 1960's VW bug that you bought for $50, or you have a loaded prostreet racer that you want to tackle one of the greatest tracks in motorsports history.

[cockerpunk]

being a good driver is a given

being a good driver is not a given.

i've never seen someone who only ever drove on the street, who could even reach 75% of the cars potential without serious seat time and education. being a good drive is NEVER a given.

thats why its awesome to watch a truly great driver in action. its skills worship, not wealth worship.

[OPBN]

Just trying to get a feel for some of the car guys in the Automag community.



Interesting thread. My only disagreement, mainly because I don't care about any of the other crap, is that the terms "car guy" and "fast car" are not necessarily one and the same. I consider myself a bit of a car guy, but my interests lay mainly in vintage VWs. Not fast by any means, in most cases, but they are in fact cars and I am very interested in them making me a car guy. I also like drooling over old muscle cars, high end exotics and the like, but I do not drive a fast car so I guess Im out of this thread. lol.

[boo]

I'm a car guy but don't drive a fast car either. I mean high 13's low 14's in the 1/4 was factory fast 15 years ago but it's pretty par for most family sedans now.

I'll be dragging it around cones at a low speed in a few months so I guess I can convince myself it's fast, lol.

I definitely see the fun in fast motorized vehicles as I've owned some in the past, they are just a little out of my price range and time commitment right now. My dream car is still the CTS-V wagon even if it's not made anymore.

[OPBN]

I'm a car guy but don't drive a fast car either. I mean high 13's low 14's in the 1/4 was factory fast 15 years ago but it's pretty par for most family sedans now.

I'll be dragging it around cones at a low speed in a few months so I guess I can convince myself it's fast, lol.

I definitely see the fun in fast motorized vehicles as I've owned some in the past, they are just a little out of my price range and time commitment right now. My dream car is still the CTS-V wagon even if it's not made anymore.

Agreed. Narrowing the definition of "car guy" only to those who are capable of building or have enough money to buy a 9-10 second car makes it more of a "who's is larger" contest than a thread truly about finding out who are fellow enthusiasts. I'm sure this was more about the OP wanting to show off his admittedly very nice cars than really giving a rats rear end about finding fellow enthusiasts. And see my list of dream cars don't even include a 10 second car. Porsche 356 roadster, 69 convertible Firebird, long list of vintage VW's. I'd love one of those Caddies so I could sell it and buy 2-3 of the cars on my list. Lol.

[boo]

I don't disagree with the premise, and am defending it for the purpose of debate since this thread has already been bastardized. I wish it hadn't been bastardized as there were some cool fast cars and a lot of slow cars posted that belong to random strangers not on the board.

I think we all know the difference between fast cars, slow cars driven fast, and cars that are cool/fun.

Perhaps you guys should start other car/bike threads to show off as well. Nothing wrong with liking and showing off all sorts of vehicles and respecting different vehicles for what they are. It's not about inadequacy, it's a about what floats your boat.

[cockerpunk]

Agreed. Narrowing the definition of "car guy" only to those who are capable of building or have enough money to buy a 9-10 second car makes it more of a "who's is larger" contest than a thread truly about finding out who are fellow enthusiasts. I'm sure this was more about the OP wanting to show off his admittedly very nice cars than really giving a rats rear end about finding fellow enthusiasts. And see my list of dream cars don't even include a 10 second car. Porsche 356 roadster, 69 convertible Firebird, long list of vintage VW's. I'd love one of those Caddies so I could sell it and buy 2-3 of the cars on my list. Lol.

its wealth worship. a lot of car culture is actually just wealth worship cammoed as car culture.

i do respect folks who build it themselves, but the honest answer, is that anyone can go out and pay someone else to build it for them. wrenching is a skill for sure, but its also a skill you can pay for. and if your serious about it, thats what you do, esp on a modern performance car. you go pay a shop to build you your 1200hp Nissan GTR (i know several people who have them). impressive cars sure, but its just money, its a love of and respect for money, not of cars.

super cars fall into this category for me. i really frankly don't care about anything beyond the z06/GT3 style car. why? because whats the point? if bolting a set of good performance tires on a mr2 means you need to do double the speed-limit to have fun on the street, a super car, you will never EVER touch the limits of it on the street. so you say, take it to the track right? well nope. my friend with a 650S took it to the track and pussy footed it around the track for a week, said it scared the **** out of him, not because of the speed, but because of the risk, he is driving around what you or I could buy a house for, your damn sure not gonna take 250 grand around a corner at beyond 10/10ths ... no way. ever.

I told him to buy a z06 and a ton of track time. WAY better use of 250 grand than a mclaren. when you stuff it, you buy another one.

so whats the point of a super car? the only thing i can think of, is wealth worship. i mean you go to cars and coffee and just listen to the folks looking at the super cars, listen to what they say. the kids all want the posters and can quote the HP and 0-60 times, and will stats race them. and the adults, oh they are the funniest "i wonder what his wife looks like?" "wow, his house must be ...."

its just wealth worship.

the far more interesting cars at cars and coffee is the little TR4, kind a junky, but the dude has owned it since he was 17, and took his wife of 45 years on there first date with it. thats a car. thats what makes them cool.




but thats why driving is far more respectable to me. because you can't pay for it, you can't fake it, and you can't BS it. it is in you. and it can't be taken away, and it can't be bought. thats why watching a miata on some suspension flying around the nerbergring is so much better than EVERY SINGLE 1000+ HP GTR build. because that skill, can't be bought.

its fundamentally a doing versus owning thing for me. is it more fun to own something, or is it more fun to do something? its always more fun to do something IMO.

[boo]

Says the guy who spends a couple hundred for a few hours around a track so he can come back here and brag about his skills.

Track racing is the same wealth worship you claim to hate x10. The fast guys are the ones that don't have to work for a living and can pay for a car and hauler and hit up every track in an scca series.

It's incremental, and unless your wealthy your skill is only incrementally better then a person that's never done a track day. Your skill will be vastly behind anyone that has the time and money to do track days frequently across the country.

It's definitely not for everyone for the main points you mentioned. Your only as good as the car you can afford to ball up on the track or break in the kitty litter.

So if I might be able to afford a fast car and enjoy it. But I probably won't be able to ever afford a fast car that I can afford to destroy.

Putting people down for having nice cars that they can't afford to track is pretty lame and hypocritical. Not everyone wants to drive a Miata around town.

[OPBN]

I don't care about the rest of your post so I'll leave that to someone else. I agree some aspects of car culture are geared around wealth but there is a much bigger trend over the last decade or so being more accepting of daily drivers, rat rods etc. Again my only real beef was with the statement indicating you had to have a 10 second car to be a car guy. I work on and maintain my 64 bug. I've taken it from barely running with hit or miss electricals to a fun little car that I drive as often as I can. Loving cars isn't just about wanting to go fast. I enjoy tinkering with them. Kind of like I enjoyed tinkering with paintball markers.

[cockerpunk]

Says the guy who spends a couple hundred for a few hours around a track so he can come back here and brag about his skills.

Track racing is the same wealth worship you claim to hate x10. The fast guys are the ones that don't have to work for a living and can pay for a car and hauler and hit up every track in an scca series.

It's incremental, and unless your wealthy your skill is only incrementally better then a person that's never done a track day. Your skill will be vastly behind anyone that has the time and money to do track days frequently across the country.

It's definitely not for everyone for the main points you mentioned. Your only as good as the car you can afford to ball up on the track or break in the kitty litter.

So if I might be able to afford a fast car and enjoy it. But I probably won't be able to ever afford a fast car that I can afford to destroy.

Putting people down for having nice cars that they can't afford to track is pretty lame and hypocritical. Not everyone wants to drive a Miata around town.

i have never bragged about my skills.

money always matters, and yes, more money buys more track time. so what? thats like a weekend rec player arguing hes as good at paintball as a pro player who plays 3 or 4 times a week to stay good. so what? all that matters is the results, and thats being a better paintball player or driver. better to spend you money doing something, than owning something. i am more worried about the guy with a mid end setup who is at the field every weekend, than someone who bought the top of the line setup and plays twice a year. money is a constraining resource, better to spend it on learning and growing skills, than buying things.

i have put no one down.

[blackdeath1k]

OK.. I have left this thread for the most part since it got bastardised. But to compare the normal track day guy or normal racer with the money grab aspect is crap. I know people that race in dragbike shootout professionally. Guess what. They work there butts off all year. Spend very little on anything except the bike. Have an old enclosed trailer they haul there bike in and live in a house that probably costs less than the bike. They don't have much money. They scrimp by to fund there passion.

My buddy that roadraces is an engineer. Makes decent money. But again. Cheap harbor freight trailor behind his little VW. All his money goes to his single racebike that he keeps license on so he can convert it back to street trim.

There is lots and lots of track days and racing that are not about tons of money.

As for bike and car culture. I'm for all aspects. As long as you don't claim my likes don't count we will get along fine. There will for sure be ribbing and harassment going on though.

[boo]

We are on a board where people build awesome $1000+ markers to often times bring it out once or twice a year. Sometimes they only see a backyard and a few hoppers. And you know what? There's nothing wrong with that.

This thread is like the paintball threads where someone shows off a cool electro or mag and then someone rips it for being a wallhanger and brags about their clapped out tippman that they play with more then you.

[cockerpunk]

We are on a board where people build awesome $1000+ markers to often times bring it out once or twice a year. Sometimes they only see a backyard and a few hoppers. And you know what? There's nothing wrong with that.

This thread is like the paintball threads where someone shows off a cool electro or mag and then someone rips it for being a wallhanger and brags about their clapped out tippman that they play with more then you.

yup. except i ripped on no ones cars.

car culture is 99% MCB/AO "look at what i built arnt a forum cool!" thats what car shows are, thats what meets are, thats what "build threads" are. but unlike paintball, where that is probably overall the minority of people involved in paintball (most folks want to PLAY paintball, i know, crazy thought), the vast vast vast vast majority of "car people" are this way. they think car culture IS car shows, is forum culture, is freeway pulls ... this is just what they think car culture is. its like if MCB just was paintball for folks, no local fields, just a BST and forums and the whole culture that breeds.

someone logs on finally and says "hey, you should try going and actually playing paintball" and somehow this is the crazy person ....

[boo]

Uh isn't that what MCB is? I'll bet you half the members there have not played paintball within the last year. And when they do finally play they usually ***** about it.

And that's perfectly OK. There are some members markers that I would think it is crazy to play with. If I had the disposable income I would own a few markers so collectable they would only see hoppers in my backyard.

Just because someone has a fast car or a cool marker doesn't mean you should look down on them for not using it at the track or on the field.

[OPBN]

You're comparing apples and oranges. The restoration/collecting aspect of car culture is just as much a part of the car culture as is racing. I have zero interest in racing or building a race car. As others have said, just because you think it's essential to want to race to be part of the "culture" doesn't make it true. Thats like saying you have to wrench on your own car to be a "real car guy". Not true. Different strokes for different folks. Some drive, some build, some collect, some admire. All different facets of the same culture.

[cockerpunk]

You're comparing apples and oranges. The restoration/collecting aspect of car culture is just as much a part of the car culture as is racing. I have zero interest in racing or building a race car. As others have said, just because you think it's essential to want to race to be part of the "culture" doesn't make it true. Thats like saying you have to wrench on your own car to be a "real car guy". Not true. Different strokes for different folks. Some drive, some build, some collect, some admire. All different facets of the same culture.

fast cars are for driving.

paintball equipment is for playing paintball with.

this isn't a crazy idea.

[boo]

fast cars are for driving.

paintball equipment is for playing paintball with.

this isn't a crazy idea.
For you. Other people see fast cars as a fun way to get to work or haul groceries. Other people are perfectly content building up a killer custom marker to adorn the walls of their man cave. Or a car to show off in a show or a parking lot. Personally I like building markers for the fun of the build, I prefer to play with off the shelf factory stock markers. What you think is normal might not be for other people.

I recently bought a moderately fast daily driver. It's my commuter car so it will never see a track, but I'll throw it around an autocross course. If I have disposable income again I'll build a car purely for fun. Either an old 90s merc E class convertible with a big engine swap or an old American muscle car convertible. No need to track a floppy bodied convertable, but they sure are fun to cruise on the highway on a nice day.

[cockerpunk]

For you. Other people see fast cars as a fun way to get to work or haul groceries. Other people are perfectly content building up a killer custom marker to adorn the walls of their man cave. Or a car to show off in a show or a parking lot. Personally I like building markers for the fun of the build, I prefer to play with off the shelf factory stock markers. What you think is normal might not be for other people.

and this is why we don't get along.

id rather do something, you'd rather own something. one is skills worship, the other is wealth worship.

[boo]

No, it's pride. I would rather baby and worship the things I build. I don't mind destroying the mass produced things a company builds. Those are replaceable, my build is a 1 of 1. It's not wealth worship, it's DIY worship and it's what I value most.

If I wanted a track car I'd let someone else dump their own money tearing apart a car and putting in a cage that passes inspection. I'd be buying it for way less then they put into it and could destroy it with no love lost.

[cockerpunk]

No, it's pride. I would rather baby and worship the things I build. I don't mind destroying the mass produced things a company builds. Those are replaceable, my build is a 1 of 1. It's not wealth worship, it's DIY worship and it's what I value most.

If I wanted a track car I'd let someone else dump their own money tearing apart a car and putting in a cage that passes inspection. I'd be buying it for way less then they put into it and could destroy it with no love lost.

you can buy anything you build. in fact, you can buy even better/nicer things.

why not be proud of of what you have/can do? that cannot be bought.

[boo]

Because I like building stuff more, even if it costs more then what I could buy something for new. I care more about being a unique individual then being competitive. I've accepted long ago I'm never going to be the best at anything, but I still can be unique and true to myself. So I like building more then competing.

When I do anything competitive I don't do it to be good, I do it to have fun. When I reach a level where I plateau I usually hang it up for a while, try something else until I get bored and come back.

[Nobody]

If you want skill, build your car. Not by slapping on bolt ons and changing the parts that are adequate from the factory. I am talking ground up. You want skill, that is skill.

You again deviated and changed the topic. One might say for your own nefarious reasons of getting into arguments. The topic is, "anyone here drive a fast car?". This isn't about skill, or whether acceleration is a better judge of speed versus top end. This isn't about the socio-economic questions of buyi.g versus building. Hell, this isn't even the benefits of forced induction over naturally aspirated engines.

To me, a fast car is any car that can go easily over 100mph. Or any car that has twice the horsepower over a stock engine.

So stay on point here gordo. Maybe you have been taking too many spins on the ice and you are all discombobulated. I know it must be tough to find a DOT crash helmet to fit over that ego of yours...

[boo]

you can buy anything you build. in fact, you can buy even better/nicer things.

why not be proud of of what you have/can do? that cannot be bought.


This is why engineers rarely are inventors. They are convinced that a team of engineers can make anything and everything better then what's made by an individual. Back in the day an engineer was not a degreed profession. If you could build **** and solve mechanical problems you were an engineer.

Now days everything is engineered by a comittee of engineers that went to 4-8 years of theoretical engineering school. A products' worth is only as good as the numbers it tests at.

This is why most things suck now days and why I'd rather build stuff myself. It's also why I became a CS major rather then an engineer, so I could buy tools and toys to tinker with instead of getting into numerical debates on performance with other engineers.

To me after the novelty of tracking a car wears off, it's just an engineering challenge. Trying to think of intellectual ways to save a second of time around the track. If it's fun for you, great! It's just not for me.

[blackdeath1k]

Hey now!!! Not all engineers think like that. But yes. A lot.... Maybe most. Everything I fabricated myself for my dragbike came with the decision of. Can I buy what I want or need? What's the price? And can I build it better for my personal application. Ironically I've got a lot of 1 off parts primarily because either I couldn't buy what I wanted or needed. Or the cost of buying it was so high I couldn't warrant it.

[cockerpunk]

If you want skill, build your car. Not by slapping on bolt ons and changing the parts that are adequate from the factory. I am talking ground up. You want skill, that is skill.

You again deviated and changed the topic. One might say for your own nefarious reasons of getting into arguments. The topic is, "anyone here drive a fast car?". This isn't about skill, or whether acceleration is a better judge of speed versus top end. This isn't about the socio-economic questions of buyi.g versus building. Hell, this isn't even the benefits of forced induction over naturally aspirated engines.

To me, a fast car is any car that can go easily over 100mph. Or any car that has twice the horsepower over a stock engine.

So stay on point here gordo. Maybe you have been taking too many spins on the ice and you are all discombobulated. I know it must be tough to find a DOT crash helmet to fit over that ego of yours...

i did build a car once. formula SAE. currently building another one. woop dee do. if i had the money i'd pay someone to do it hands down.

the title of the thread is "anyone here drive a fast car" emphasis added.

really all that needs to be said

[cockerpunk]

This is why engineers rarely are inventors. They are convinced that a team of engineers can make anything and everything better then what's made by an individual. Back in the day an engineer was not a degreed profession. If you could build **** and solve mechanical problems you were an engineer.

Now days everything is engineered by a comittee of engineers that went to 4-8 years of theoretical engineering school. A products' worth is only as good as the numbers it tests at.

This is why most things suck now days and why I'd rather build stuff myself. It's also why I became a CS major rather then an engineer, so I could buy tools and toys to tinker with instead of getting into numerical debates on performance with other engineers.

To me after the novelty of tracking a car wears off, it's just an engineering challenge. Trying to think of intellectual ways to save a second of time around the track. If it's fun for you, great! It's just not for me.

ironic these statements being made by the very people trying to use numbers to disqualify cars from being fast. lol

this is because you are building your car to go faster, not learning to drive it better and thus go faster. unless you are randy pobst, someone else can drive your car faster around a track than you can. that means you don't need to buy more parts to go faster, you need to learn how to drive better. its not an engineer your in need of, its driving lessons.

[boo]

Racing = geometry and physics done really fast. After you figure that out its just developing the muscle memory over many years til you get too old that your muscle memory begins to decline. It's not the end all be all.

And to most of us its pretty boring buying a car that performs in the average salaryman's muscle memory around a track. It puts most of us in the range of a boring econohatch or a Miata, neither of which are fast cars, even when driven fast.

I think we all know what a fast car is, you know it when you see it. We don't need to do engineering mental math to figure it out. Just like we don't need to do engineering tests under controlled conditions (racing against the clock around a track) to enjoy a fast car.

[cockerpunk]

Racing = geometry and physics done really fast. After you figure that out its just developing the muscle memory over many years til you get too old that your muscle memory begins to decline. It's not the end all be all.

And to most of us its pretty boring buying a car that performs in the average salaryman's muscle memory around a track. It puts most of us in the range of a boring econohatch or a Miata, neither of which are fast cars, even when driven fast.

I think we all know what a fast car is, you know it when you see it. We don't need to do engineering mental math to figure it out. Just like we don't need to do engineering tests under controlled conditions (racing against the clock around a track) to enjoy a fast car.

wow, so where is your WEC LMP1 trophy case then?

lol

[boo]

Short of rally x which has very uncontrolled conditions I think it's mind numbingly boring watching people race the clock over and over, and after a certain point it gets boring to do. Eventually most people sack up and race other people. Funds willing.

Of course racing against other people you are definitely going to destroy your car, so it really has to be a car you don't care about.

[cockerpunk]

Short of rally x which has very uncontrolled conditions I think it's mind numbingly boring watching people race the clock over and over, and after a certain point it gets boring to do. Eventually most people sack up and race other people. Funds willing.

your point?

[boo]

your point?

That's most of what you've posted, both cars and video, is pretty boring. Even for car people. While you might think it's interesting, it's not for most of us.

I enjoy seeing pics of a cool engine swap or a built up streetcar a lot more then seeing slow cars race the clock. It's what I'd expect from this thread.

Again, it's like how I'd rather see vids of someone ripping 30+bps on a sweet custom mag in a backyard then watching some noob run around the field with a stock Tippman. Now maybe if it was 2 PSP teams playing each other with Tippmanns it would be interesting. But it would still be outside of the context of "who has a fast marker".

Unless its a Miata with a V8 swap I'm really not interested in seeing it here. I know the engineer in you cringes at these backyard basterdizations, but I find them amazingly fascinating.

[cockerpunk]

That most of what you've posted, both cars and video is pretty boring, even for car people. While you might think it's interesting, it's not for most of us. I enjoy seeing pics of a cool engine swap or a built up streetcar a lot more then seeing slow cars race the clock.

right, because as you've established you'd rather own something, than do something.

so, logically, videos of folks doing things, are less interesting than pictures of things people own.

it all makes sense.

but cars are for driving, paintball equipment is for playing paintball. you can invent any kind of other "game" to play with them, but we already did that, its called racing, and paintball. why bother making up your own imaginary games, when we have actual games to play?

Answer: if you don't have the skill to win the actual game, invent your own game and rules so you can win every time!

and im not saying that i don't have preferences too, about what is cool and what isn't, i just don't attempt subjugate reality to my preferences. or make excuses for them. i don't need silly rules about what is fast or not, a fast car is one that beats a field of cars under the same rule book. whether that car is cool or not, makes no difference. the clock doesn't lie, the clock doesn't care how much forum cred you have, or how much power your car put down on the dyno. its really very simple.

reminds me of this EPIC rant on stance and why its dumb. which boils down to there is an established point to these things, be they cars or paintball equipment. and while there are other things, like how they look, how cool they are, etc, the point is pretty straightforward. and the only reason to make those other things the primary point, is because a person or group can't compete in the real point of the game, be it racing or paintball.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/gerglmuff/943963_574859905938_2717469575248248008_n_zpsaupug 6f0.jpg (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/gerglmuff/media/943963_574859905938_2717469575248248008_n_zpsaupug 6f0.jpg.html)

[cockerpunk]

Unless its a Miata with a V8 swap I'm really not interested in seeing it here. I know the engineer in you cringes at these backyard basterdizations, but I find them amazingly fascinating.

on the contrary, v8 miatas are amazing, and i love them.

SO much fun to drive. ironically, not much faster than a well built normal miata, except maybe on tracks with a long front straight, but mighty fun to drive. v8 944 swaps are actually even better IMO, thats a chassis with a bit more control than a miata has at those kind of power levels.

also, sidenote, love how people think they can just slip in my opinion, without me noticing.

[OPBN]

fast cars are for driving.

paintball equipment is for playing paintball with.

this isn't a crazy idea.

So car culture is only about fast cars and racing? If this is your contention than you're doing it wrong. There are tons of aspects of car culture that are not speed and/or race related. And yes paintball equipment is for playing with, but there is also a preservation side of paintball and the car culture that is about collecting and preserving certain examples of both of these hobbies. If you don't see this then you're being obtuse at this point as usual.

[cockerpunk]

So car culture is only about fast cars and racing? If this is your contention than you're doing it wrong. There are tons of aspects of car culture that are not speed and/or race related. And yes paintball equipment is for playing with, but there is also a preservation side of paintball and the car culture that is about collecting and preserving certain examples of both of these hobbies. If you don't see this then you're being obtuse at this point as usual.

the thread is called "anyone drive a fast car"

not preserving cars. not restoring cars. not fixing cars. not building cars.

about driving fast cars.

[OPBN]

the thread is called "anyone drive a fast car"

not preserving cars. not restoring cars. not fixing cars. not building cars.

about driving fast cars.

Touché. However it also isn't titled "Who here races a fast car?"

/thread.

[boo]

I'm in my mid 30's, as I said before, I gave up trying to compete in the top of my class at anything competitive a long time ago. I think I speak for most of us here. There is always somebody with more time, money, and youth to devote to be the best at any activity under the sun. And quite frankly, even in my youth I saw such pursuits as pointless, why devote your life to one thing when there is so much out there. Just do it to have fun.

I'm always suspect of people that talk up their skills, always unsolicited, at anything. People love to brag about skills on the internet because it's nothing they ever have to prove. They're always haters of the more humble people that do have real skills.

And like your cross post try's to say when they get jealous of someone else's skill they change the game. "Welp, I don't have the skill to build a fast car so I'm going to blame it on people sucking for having extra money to buy fast cars", or changing the topic around to "fast cars are pointless unless you race them against the clock. Look at me, I have more skill then you because I race slow cars against the clock". You know, because the topic had nothing to do with "who's a better driver".

[cockerpunk]

Touché. However it also isn't titled "Who here races a fast car?"

/thread.

how else to do you determine what fast means?

[cockerpunk]

I'm in my mid 30's, as I said before, I gave up trying to compete in the top of my class at anything competitive a long time ago. I think I speak for most of us here. There is always somebody with more time, money, and youth to devote to be the best at any activity under the sun. And quite frankly, even in my youth I saw such pursuits as pointless, why devote your life to one thing when there is so much out there. Just do it to have fun.

I'm always suspect of people that talk up their skills, always unsolicited, at anything. People love to brag about skills on the internet because it's nothing they ever have to prove. They're always haters of the more humble people that do have real skills.

And like your cross post try's to say when they get jealous of someone else's skill they change the game. "Welp, I don't have the skill to build a fast car so I'm going to blame it on people sucking for having extra money to buy fast cars, or changing the topic around to "fast cars are pointless unless you race them against the clock. Look at me, I have more skill then you because I race slow cars against the clock".

i have no idea where you think i've been bragging. if you are insecure, i can see how my posts come off as judgmental and bragging. but if you are not insecure about your skills, then they wouldn't be. come to an event! everyone is there to learn!

im a mid-pack driver locally. that makes me better than some folks, and not better than lots of folks too. there is always someone faster, which means there is always more to learn. another great thing about racing head to head, you know in the pecking order exactly where you are, so bravado/ego isn't required. you just look on the time sheets, and its right there in black and white.

[Ragu310]

I think this was a car thread at one point. Anyways I don't have the fastest car but I love it and it gets me where I'm going. 2012 Camaro SS.
426 HP and when my warranty is up, I'll bump it up to at least 550 HP.

http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag21/Ragu310/IMG_3777_zpsmhcdsoxp.jpg (http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/Ragu310/media/IMG_3777_zpsmhcdsoxp.jpg.html)

[cockerpunk]

this came up in my facebook feed today. its a running joke in our club, this guy built a v8 miata, and sometimes comes to our local autocrosses. hes a weird dude, and its a decent enough i guess v8 swap, but mostly he makes videos like this humble bragging about his autocross skills in it. it, at this point, has everything in the sun done to it. LS2, full aero package, BBK, i think hes running 17 inch wheels (no idea why lol), homemade flares, its pretty insane build:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-NPK90N0KxwY/VYhYBr16pAI/AAAAAAAACuc/Yza1rrJM36o/s1600/track.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKIETc8050I

i watch so many videos of good driving, and by all reasoning it should be a fast car. i mean he has 400+ rwhp in a ~2300 pound car, thats a recipe for speed any way you cut it. buy oh my .... a classic lesson in poor driving.

and its not even that the guy is bad at driving, everyone who starts really actually driving is pretty bad when they start, we were all there. its that he insists on thinking he actually is a good driver, and is perpetually in the so-called "cobra wars" becasue he runs in a class that a cobra replica with even worse drivers drive.

for example, i was driving a 944 with a 5.0L from the fox in it, so, roughly 200 hp less, about 600lbs more, and a total of at least 10 inches less tire, and beat him by something silly like 4 seconds. the 944 owner, beat him by at least 2 seconds.

[flampaint]

I think this was a car thread at one point. Anyways I don't have the fastest car but I love it and it gets me where I'm going. 2012 Camaro SS.
426 HP and when my warranty is up, I'll bump it up to at least 550 HP.

http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag21/Ragu310/IMG_3777_zpsmhcdsoxp.jpg (http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/Ragu310/media/IMG_3777_zpsmhcdsoxp.jpg.html)

It never was about who is the fastest driver or who has the fastest car. Just about "who here drives a fast car" and THAT is a fast car! :D ("gets me where I'm going" is quite the understatement IMHO :D )
Really like it!

[boo]

for example, i was driving a 944 with a 5.0L from the fox in it, so, roughly 200 hp less, about 600lbs more, and a total of at least 10 inches less tire, and beat him by something silly like 4 seconds. the 944 owner, beat him by at least 2 seconds.
Wait, your 944 has a 5liter swap? That's something worth posting!

[Ragu310]

It never was about who is the fastest driver or who has the fastest car. Just about "who here drives a fast car" and THAT is a fast car! :D ("gets me where I'm going" is quite the understatement IMHO :D )
Really like it!

Thanks Flampaint!

[cockerpunk]

Wait, your 944 has a 5liter swap? That's something worth posting!

no, its a friends. fun car. actually slower than my turbo, but dat instant torque doe.

in the club its known as "the fastest slow car in the world" you will go out on a run with it, and think you've laid down this insane speed with it, and then look up at the clocks and go "seriously? so slow" its quite a challenge to modulate the throttle and not just drift the thing everywhere, and its non-abs, with a hydroboost setup for the brakes, so they are super prone to lock up without good petal control there too. SUCH an easy car to overdrive. which is why its such a good car to learn to drive with it. it will punish you for everything you do wrong, and reward you wonderfully every time you get it right.

its a sweet car, i very much enjoy driving it.

[cockerpunk]

some pretty insane street driving here:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un0pIYRD5VI

hes cornering in 4th most of the time, thats 100 mph in a s2000 ....

[cougar20th]

some pretty STUPID street driving here:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un0pIYRD5VI

hes cornering in 4th most of the time, thats 100 mph in a s2000 ....

Fixed it for you.

As almost with anyone Ive messed around on the street.

But have come to realize the street is absolutely not the right place for that type of driving. Keep it on a Track.

Yup still fixing the damage from the last time I played on the street with my camaro.

[cockerpunk]

Fixed it for you.

As almost with anyone Ive mess around on the street. But that is absolulty not the right place for that type of driving. Keep it on a Track.

oh i agree. thats why i find fast cars for street driving to be kinda pointless.

the skill is impressive though, as is the courage.

intelligence, maybe not, but the car control is excellent. looking on his youtube page, it looks like hes only running wheels, tires, suspension and an exhaust too, keeping a momentum car at those kinds of speeds on the street is pretty damn good driving. even in the 944, i've only ever averaged 90mph on backroads over short bursts, and thats a significantly more powerful car.