Love springfeeds, but hate reloading? [Archive]

GoatBoy

01-02-2016, 09:08 PM

The difference being not having to turn the powerfeed plug, which makes it excruciatingly slow....

Can the Gearheadz/Empire spring feed be modified to that ?

Exactly, that's what blows up the reload from what should be 1-2 seconds to 6-12 seconds.

I don't know about Gearheads, but the BT SA-17 springfeed which I based this off of can be retrofit with this easily; you just have to be able to cut the slot(s) in the side of the body, and then replace the plug with my modified guts.

I just happened to draw up a new one because I wanted to get away from the glued rail eventually, but the specs are nearly identical.

river031403

01-02-2016, 10:31 PM

Tare you going to start selling your products?

GoatBoy

01-03-2016, 04:09 AM

Tare you going to start selling your products?

No... I've just been "releasing" them under an NC license. Like this one is already public on Onshape.

The deal is my stuff really won't work with other people's marker's as is -- I depend on a body/rail spec to lock things in place, and that spec is not a naturally occurring configuration. Not even the cocker threaded adapter, which dispenses with the TL pin.

If you happen to have a classic body with the feedneck cut off and a warp left feed port along with a wingless 1" wide RTP rail with a warp left notch cut, then all of this is "free". I can point you to the design files, you can go to 3dhubs or something and find a local printer to print stuff up for you. Hell maybe knownothingmags will print something up for you. (Still dreaming about that Peek cocker adapter...)

Otherwise there's little point in me selling you something you can't actually use. I'm not super interested in doing business in paintball anyways.

The real game is getting a run of real bodies and real rails. And that's totally out of my league.

going_home

01-03-2016, 08:16 AM

GoatBoy

01-03-2016, 04:15 PM

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b195/going_home/20160103_080510.jpg (http://s19.photobucket.com/user/going_home/media/20160103_080510.jpg.html)

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b195/going_home/20160103_080502.jpg (http://s19.photobucket.com/user/going_home/media/20160103_080502.jpg.html)

The difference between the SA-17 and the Empire, theres about 9/16" on the BT and 5/16" on the Empire from the end to the main body.

I am interested in your invention because I may use the spring feed at a mag fed event last weekend of this month.

Answer hazy.

Step 1: switch to metric system

Need total length of body, depth of inset cut, and diameter of inset cut For the SA17 the inset diameter is 23mm for instance. Inset depth is 16mm, which looks like will be shorter for yours.

Timewise, might not make it for ur shindig...

zondo

01-03-2016, 10:52 PM

The deal is my stuff really won't work with other people's marker's as is -- I depend on a body/rail spec to lock things in place, and that spec is not a naturally occurring configuration. Not even the cocker threaded adapter, which dispenses with the TL pin.

If you happen to have a classic body with the feedneck cut off and a warp left feed port along with a wingless 1" wide RTP rail with a warp left notch cut, then all of this is "free". I can point you to the design files, you can go to 3dhubs or something and find a local printer to print stuff up for you. Hell maybe knownothingmags will print something up for you. (Still dreaming about that Peek cocker adapter...)

Otherwise there's little point in me selling you something you can't actually use. I'm not super interested in doing business in paintball anyways.

The real game is getting a run of real bodies and real rails. And that's totally out of my league.

Your setup with the BT Rip clip... would that work with standard bodies and rail setups? I know you didn't make that stuff (picatinny rail and rip clip). would just have to epoxy a rail to the top and have the feedneck cut off?

going_home

01-03-2016, 11:59 PM

GoatBoy

01-04-2016, 01:39 AM

Your setup with the BT Rip clip... would that work with standard bodies and rail setups? I know you didn't make that stuff (picatinny rail and rip clip). would just have to epoxy a rail to the top and have the feedneck cut off?

Yes, I was being my usual overly literal self when I referred to "my" parts -- specifically the body cowl thing that I've been doing.

The BT/Empire rail/Rip Clip stuff is... not mine. So yeah you can just glue the Trracer rail onto the body (the body OD is different so I sand it down) after cutting the feedneck off of the Classic body.

Eventually, I think the glue will fail, but you'll get some mileage out of it.

This is amurica, we dont metric, thats only europe.

Inside the two are the same, as you can see they have the exact same powerfeed plug, and the ends are interchangeable as far as which end the feed goes in and which end the plug goes in.

I'll give up on doing your mod for the scenario but I'm still intrigued.

I swear I'm going to move to a 3rd world country just for the metric system.

So here are the details. My design takes a LOT of shortcuts given how it's used and what's available to me, which is also why it's sometimes hard to translate my cheats to other setups.

The internals of my "stack" go like this:

Rotating plug -> screw lever to the outside
Big ol' rollerblade bearing because I have a bunch of them lying around
Badge holder torsion spring

All of that fits inside 16mm.

Major difference 1: In the normal Empire over-the-top springfeed adapter, the mechanism is going to be out of reach of your gun hand unless you have monster 9" fingers or something. And probably even worse for the abomination that is the Gearheadz version.

That's OK but it implies one thing: a locking mechanism.

Since everything is within reach in my setup, I ditched the locking mechanism and just use my finger as the lock.

Major difference 2: Also since cutting slots is "free" for me, I just cut the slot in the body, and the plug lever also acts as the retainer to keep the plug inside the housing.

So that one part (literally 1 screw) performs triple duty of lock + retainer + plug rotator.

Cutting slots is not "free" on the Empire feedneck, in fact it sucks hardcore, and worse yet, you need like 125-ish degrees of rotation to really divert the paint correctly I think.

I'm thinking we move rotation lever/mechanism from the top of the stack to the bottom of the stack, effectively as your end cap.

What remains is the specific design of the spring-loaded lock so you can rotate, dump, then unlock and it will automatically rotate back in place.

And if we stuff the torsion spring inside the new end cap, then all that's left is to drill a single retainer hole in the Empire housing.

That's kind of been my complaint of Empire, and everyone else for that matter -- nobody ever thinks of expansions or upgrades. Like I understand making the basic model that's as affordable as possible, but ... man, 1 hole, and you can come back and sell everyone the "expert reload" upgrade for exorbitant prices. THAT'S HOW YOU MAKE MONEY IN PAINTBALL.

OK I'm done.

Laku

01-04-2016, 03:05 AM

this is amurica, we dont metric, thats only europe.

lol

http://7770647a14b0867efc75-b939f832d8cd9c860ce8909163419528.r92.cf2.rackcdn.c om/31102.jpg

Nobody

01-04-2016, 09:01 AM

This is amurica, we dont metric, thats only europe.

Inside the two are the same, as you can see they have the exact same powerfeed plug, and the ends are interchangeable as far as which end the feed goes in and which end the plug goes in.

I'll give up on doing your mod for the scenario but I'm still intrigued.

On any automobile built from about 1985-ish on uses metric bolts.

So, unless you use an adjustable wrench. 10mm for the battery cables & 12mm socket for the battery holddown. ;)

zondo

01-04-2016, 10:43 AM

We use metric all the time in my job for calculations. Makes it much easier to do stuff in your head.

captian pinky

01-04-2016, 11:42 AM

any chance you can post some pics of what you actually made. While i understand the point of the video is to show how fast you can load. I can't exactly see what you did.

going_home

01-04-2016, 12:12 PM

On any automobile built from about 1985-ish on uses metric bolts.

So, unless you use an adjustable wrench. 10mm for the battery cables & 12mm socket for the battery holddown. ;)

I have a mechanic for that stuff.

;)

GoatBoy

01-04-2016, 10:11 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIWDVuHDpq0

This is up in Onshape if you want to look at it there. Not a lot to look at really.

Body:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-XuitgDbYhOI/VosxlUGODnI/AAAAAAAAIWk/4ze0bOelczU/s720-Ic42/Screenshot_2016-01-04-21-01-10.png

"Kinda Parabolic" plug with the hole for the screw:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-nP6fezhtRjc/Vosxzgx4PEI/AAAAAAAAIWs/SmVtmlQxV5Q/s720-Ic42/Screenshot_2016-01-04-21-02-10.png

And there's a back cap to keep the torsion spring from flying out, but that's about it.

And just for fun, I actually broke my pusher (snapped the screw off in it) so I made a new one, but moar fancy:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-J8cHAJA-ZpQ/VosyXR3w43I/AAAAAAAAIW0/1D7e6D6Eias/s720-Ic42/Screenshot_2016-01-04-21-03-56.png

knownothingmags

01-04-2016, 10:50 PM

No they are not cocks!!!!!

is that the tool you use to design is onshape?

GoatBoy

01-05-2016, 01:34 AM

No they are not cocks!!!!!

is that the tool you use to design is onshape?

Yeah, it's kind of my go-to tool now. Kind of feel like I'm cheating on OpenSCAD, but there are some things are just really hard to do in OpenSCAD. I tried FreeCAD too but the interface is absolutely awful.

Nobody

01-05-2016, 08:55 AM

I do love Archer... And how its drawn... :D

river031403

01-05-2016, 09:05 AM

Would it be possible to just cut a slit in the existing empire power feed plug area and just design your new feed plug similar to yours but using the exiting platform or am I missing something here

captian pinky

01-05-2016, 10:53 AM

so you basically made a keyed powerfeed plug with out orings correct?

i think i would have changed the position of the screw so that up was the reloading and down was the shooting. that way if it spins on its own it likely won stop you from shooting. thats just me though. Might have to try this on a empire spring feed.

GoatBoy

01-05-2016, 08:11 PM

Would it be possible to just cut a slit in the existing empire power feed plug area and just design your new feed plug similar to yours but using the exiting platform or am I missing something here

Yes, but follow your idea to its conclusion.

If you slot the plug, then _______.

Fill in the blank.

so you basically made a keyed powerfeed plug with out orings correct?

i think i would have changed the position of the screw so that up was the reloading and down was the shooting. that way if it spins on its own it likely won stop you from shooting. thats just me though. Might have to try this on a empire spring feed.

Kinda. I consider the keying to be on the housing, not the plug.

The plug won't rotate out of place on its own. That's what the torsion spring is for.

Reload lever up would be useful if you want to hold it back with your reload hand, but in that case I'd prefer a lock anyways.

Speaking of preferences -- going_home, do you reload with right or left hand?

going_home

01-05-2016, 10:02 PM

Yes, but follow your idea to its conclusion.

If you slot the plug, then _______.

Fill in the blank.

Kinda. I consider the keying to be on the housing, not the plug.

The plug won't rotate out of place on its own. That's what the torsion spring is for.

Reload lever up would be useful if you want to hold it back with your reload hand, but in that case I'd prefer a lock anyways.

Speaking of preferences -- going_home, do you reload with right or left hand?

Left always.

TheJackal28

01-06-2016, 12:08 AM

GoatBoy

01-06-2016, 10:12 PM

This is awesome I made us a sight rail and used bt empire feed necks and spring tubes for a while now but I have to say you took it the next step is also had a mag well designed around the sight rail and body to allow the zeta mags to run down the side on the body and rail.

I now have a new project of a mag well that screws on to the side of a rt rail the feeds warped bodies like my tac one. Dead cell was my original designer, I now also help design micromods facebook group. We have designed up a vert off set feed neck, we also designed a more popular feed neck as the ego feed neck adapter. So I would like to maybe run a few ideas past you and maybe it will help you out in the long run.

One of my old designs from a long time ago was in fact an RTP rail bolt on for a warp left ULE body. That... has its own issues.

The problem was spring feeds, magazines (paintball magazines have technically been around a long time), and 3d printing sucked back then, so I had to wait for the world to catch up.

Anyways I'm open for bouncing ideas around. If it's Zetamag related, maybe it should go in the other thread, or whatever...

bowcycle

02-11-2016, 01:09 PM

I really like the way my springfeed sits on my marker. I modded the housing to make sure it sits low and tight. I'm sure others have done the same.

So if your housing, the SA17, and Empire housings all use an inset diameter of 23mm; is it possible to make this insert (with rotating parabolic face, lever, etc) a self-contained unit that fits snugly into whichever of these housings you want to use? Theoretically, if it's built as a drop-in unit, the slot for the lever can be designed with a "lock" so you don't have to hold it open.

Seems like this would be the more universal solution and shouldn't be too complicated to do now that Goat has the functioning system. However, admittedly I haven't touched CAD in about 12 years and even then worked mostly in 2D - "layered" neighborhood planning and not 3D design.

and I understand that all the different housings have different insert depths, but if this "universal insert" is as long as the longest one, the others housings would still be able to use it, just with a bit more of the insert showing.

My parabolic plug sits into my Empire housing very snugly (which is part of why it's such a pain to reload) so I don't think you'd have to worry too much about the entire unit twisting. But if you're that worried about it, you can just drill a hole for a set screw through whichever of the housings you're using and lock the drop-in unit in place that way.

Thoughts?

GoatBoy

02-11-2016, 07:51 PM

The touchy parts are 1. the lock and 2. fitting into the metal versions which may be slightly different diameter/shape, which matters for a press-fit part, which is what I'm going for. The bail-out option is to require a set-screw.

The lever/actuator can be be moved to the back of the assembly where it hangs out since the axle comes all the way back out anyways.

It's the lock that I'm trying to figure out. A lock implies a second spring to keep the lock engaged, but I want to avoid a second spring.

The option then is to make the lock out of flexible filament so it has a built-in spring. So you pull the lever over a flexible latch that holds it in place while you reload, then you just pop the latch when done.

And then, you know, trying to fit all of this into the space and still actually be printable in as few parts as possible.

Sometimes when things get this complicated I get the nagging suspicion that I'm missing something obvious...

If you guys got ideas, draw 'em up.

going_home

02-11-2016, 09:45 PM

If you guys got ideas, draw 'em up.

Only thing I can draw is flies.....

"Times fun when you're having flies" Kermit THEE Frog

bowcycle

02-12-2016, 07:12 AM

https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/12745511_10153963073944532_7155952085164093531_n.j pg?oh=c1c25a2c8a16eca2fee88ec4be42c5ce&oe=57687506

bowcycle

02-12-2016, 07:28 AM

So with the sketch above, here's what I'm thinking:

You have an outer housing that is a housing for the actuator plate and has a hole out the back for the axle. A basic pen spring goes on the axle and provides tension between the back of the outer housing and the actuator plate so that there is a constant forward tension on the actuator at all times.
This outer housing has a "C" shaped channel that locks the actuator at either end. These two point correspond to the parabolic face being in the firing and loading positions.

The axel continues straight through the inner housing. This is basically nothing more than a fat cylinder. There are no inner workings, it's just the contact point between the spring feed's housing and this unit.

The axel terminates in the parabolic face.

EDIT:
After thinking about all of this a bit more, I realize that the way I designed this would have the pen spring fighting against the spring of the spring feed as it is feeding the paint. Thus, I advise to switch the channel in the outer housing to a backwards "C" and put the spring between the actuator plate and the front of outer housing.

This would mean that you push the actuator knob forward and over to flip the parabolic face and it keeps you in the same motion as you slide the spring feed knob down.

I think that's a better way to go all around and it allows the parabolic face to sit against the front of the inner housing so there's no slop there.

GoatBoy

02-12-2016, 07:03 PM

https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/12745511_10153963073944532_7155952085164093531_n.j pg?oh=c1c25a2c8a16eca2fee88ec4be42c5ce&oe=57687506

How is this different from the current "turn and dump" plug? Is there a second spring in there that I don't see?

If you don't have a way for the plug to rotate back in place by itself, you don't actually need a lock or spring. You have... the existing BT system, which is just a plug you manually rotate both ways.

This design might be a little easier to turn, but if that's all you wanted, all you need is a flip-out lever on the existing plug to give you better leverage.

bowcycle

02-13-2016, 06:48 AM

How is this different from the current "turn and dump" plug? Is there a second spring in there that I don't see?
If you don't have a way for the plug to rotate back in place by itself, you don't actually need a lock or spring. You have... the existing BT system, which is just a plug you manually rotate both ways.
This design might be a little easier to turn, but if that's all you wanted, all you need is a flip-out lever on the existing plug to give you better leverage.

I didn't know where in the system your bearing went, but I hoped you would add bearings into this system where appropriate so that it will turn as smoothly as yours appears to in the video.
If that is possible, it would be a huge improvement over my current setup even with the finger lever I mounted into it.

For the "torsion-spring effect" I was thinking about opening both ends of the pen spring so that it had a wire sticking up on each end that would fit into channels on the actuator plate and the outer housing. Hopefully, this would give both lateral and rotational tension.

If both tensions are high enough, then you can do away with the lock in the "feed" position and only have a minimal lock in the "reload" position.

GoatBoy

02-13-2016, 10:28 PM

I didn't know where in the system your bearing went, but I hoped you would add bearings into this system where appropriate so that it will turn as smoothly as yours appears to in the video.
If that is possible, it would be a huge improvement over my current setup even with the finger lever I mounted into it.

For the "torsion-spring effect" I was thinking about opening both ends of the pen spring so that it had a wire sticking up on each end that would fit into channels on the actuator plate and the outer housing. Hopefully, this would give both lateral and rotational tension.

If both tensions are high enough, then you can do away with the lock in the "feed" position and only have a minimal lock in the "reload" position.

/me pops open a fresh can of Dr. Pepper.

Yes my design does have a bearing inside, in fact I just switched it out to a 16mm OD 5mm thick one (instead of the 608zz), which I put a spacer around to fill it out to 23mm. The spacer was where I was planning to sneak some extra functionality in.

The cylindrical space we have to play with is about 16mm deep. I'm currently taking 5 extra for the parabolic plug that I could probably give up, but the bearing takes 5, and the spring takes about 4.5. And then 0.5 for safety/slack.

I haven't seen a spring in the configuration that you described, and a pen spring won't be able to provide enough force to be... satisfying. You want something about badge-holder strength. It would definitely be nice to combine two springs into one.

Springs so far have been a real PITA. Last set of projects (the FSR loader, 2 different Zetamag releases, and now this spring feed) have all had me scrambling and racking my brain trying to figure out spring sources. I think it's possible to 3d print a torsion spring, but ... I will need to beat it out of the software because it's not cooperating.

May need to give up certain aspects of the design and swap with something else...

bowcycle

02-14-2016, 05:27 AM

I think it's possible to 3d print a torsion spring, but ... I will need to beat it out of the software because it's not cooperating.

oooh, does that mean (in theory) a helical machined spring could be printed with tabs on each end so it functions as both a compression spring and a torsion spring? That would be nifty.

https://www.asme.org/getmedia/86a38176-deb3-4d40-b488-9088199de147/Coiled_Wire_or_Machined_Springs_Making_the_Right_C hoice-Mechanisms_Systems_and_Devices-03.jpg.aspx?width=340

Edit:
What about a conical spring? That would save us space on the compression side and (if the wire is decently thick) provide "satisfying" torsional strength. Again, the ends would need to be bent out to form tabs.

knownothingmags

02-14-2016, 12:18 PM

printed springs are a game of wonder some times.

depends on a bit of variables

GoatBoy

02-14-2016, 08:20 PM

oooh, does that mean (in theory) a helical machined spring could be printed with tabs on each end so it functions as both a compression spring and a torsion spring? That would be nifty.

Edit:
What about a conical spring? That would save us space on the compression side and (if the wire is decently thick) provide "satisfying" torsional strength. Again, the ends would need to be bent out to form tabs.

Yeah..... let's not get ahead of ourselves yet; just a single proper torsion spring would be great.

Incidentally, the process for drawing a spiral in Onshape is to put a helix onto a cone.

https://forum.onshape.com/discussion/809/spirals

printed springs are a game of wonder some times.

depends on a bit of variables

Well what i wanted was a single-wall spiral, which I think would work, but the slicer refuses to do it as a single wall.

PETG or even PLA would probably work great.

May have to resort to manually writing gcode or something...

Oh, forgot my original reason for posting... Actually used the springfeed in-game today. Had a few hijinx with the pusher plug unlocking from the force of the paint entering the tube; need to carve up a deeper groove for that thing. Also need to break my old reload motion habits which are no longer applicable.

The other thing is there is a practical limit for how small you want to go, depending on how fast/easy your reloads to happen. The current spacing, which is damn near bare minimum spacing from body to feed tube, isn't a multiple-of-ball-size distance away.

Which means when it comes time to non-empty reload, there's a ball sitting in the dead space that will block the parabolic plug from rotating. So I have to tip that ball out before I can reload. This isn't a problem with the BT adapter as I think the spacing is correct.

I could probably fix this, but I think I will just live with it as I put a premium on the lower profile.

bowcycle

02-16-2016, 06:54 AM

Does anyone have the inner diameter and insert depth of the stick feed on the fixed-stick-feed bodies Luke did?
Would be interesting to know if this project could work for one of those bodies (as long as it were drilled for top-loading).

I'm planning to rock pistols at OK D-Day this year. It would be pretty amazing to have the ease of reloading that we're talking about.
Since I don't have the ability to print stuff (down side of living in one of those 3rd world countries that uses the metric system), I guess at the very least I could stick a couple of bearings into a nylon bushing and stick a parabolic face on one end of the axel and a lever on the other.

Still a few months till I'm back in the States, so we'll just see when the time comes.

bowcycle

02-17-2016, 07:47 PM

BTW, if anyone is looking for a BT/Empire spring feed (trracer/SA-17), they are getting a bit scarce.
You can buy a number of the parts for them at jtpaintballparts.com, but not the full system and not even everything to build the full system.
I recently found that criticalpaintball.com claims they have them in stock. I ordered one so we'll find out soon if it's true.

Again, seems like these are going extinct so if you have plans to do the trracer rail mod with all the different options (hopper fed, spring feed, rip clip, etc.), you should probably start grabbing the parts now.

EDIT:
Just got the email from Critical saying that they are out of the spring feeds. Put in an order with JTP for all the parts to build one (minus spring guide). Cost $50 with shipping. We'll see if that one comes through.

GoatBoy

02-20-2016, 07:57 PM

I just happened to look back myself at some guns and noticed a number of them are discontinued, so I was expecting this.

It's too bad they never upgraded the Empire Trracer; it's one of the few non-Mag guns that I like (despite its warts).

But it was clear that some of these markers just weren't sustainable as-is.

That was the other reason why I wanted to make this adapter as well as the other accessories that could replace the top rail. So don't fret if you can't get a top rail because that's a printable part.

Things like springs and main tube and the cap for the feed tube might make it worth the scramble to pick up what you can.

Nobody

02-21-2016, 05:04 AM

bowcycle

02-22-2016, 04:12 PM

A note on my order from JT Paintball:
I received an email from customer service saying that the springs and plunger knob were discontinued and out of stock, but the rest of the order could be processed.

Basically, if you want anything having to do with the Trracer or Empire spring feeds, jump on the last few parts now while you can.

going_home

02-22-2016, 07:57 PM

http://www.paintballgateway.com/geemsnunspfe.html

http://www.paintballgateway.com/emsnpugunpas.html

GoatBoy

02-28-2016, 12:41 AM

The design path of the Trracer was for a lot more, but Empire didn't want to invest the money on a "low end" gun where the margins were going to be less than their hivher priced guns. I got this straight from the man who designed it. He hated the bean-counters that would look at the numbers and not see the benefit of the product to the community or to the line of products.

I'm not privy to what happened with the Trracer; I can only look at... what I can see. I think when you're in a situation like that, you have to be very careful about where you add value, and more importantly, where you take away value.

I was going to do this in another thread, but screw it I’ll just do it here.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1RS-3bVFa-Q/VtKE7Qeo8vI/AAAAAAAAIpE/IVL1w0R_GgU/s1024-Ic42/Custom%252520Image.jpg

It’s 2016 and I still do not own a bench vise.

I had this idea a really long time ago. This part is like 95% of the way there… but the last 5% was a killer.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-j1GhUQRjlEY/VtKE5Z1x1pI/AAAAAAAAIpc/O3DyZQSIzKQ/s1152-Ic42/20160227_225155.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-73J8ozD5j5c/VtKE9QKE7-I/AAAAAAAAIpc/MOFKt8TYx6o/s1152-Ic42/20160227_232527.jpg

(Ignore the extra cutting at the backend -- failed experiment from something else).

That’s right, you can fashion a mag-cocker barrel adapter out of a Trracer body, which costs like $25. The problem was the detent. The Ego detent alone is not sufficient; you need minimum 2 opposing ones. Putting a second detent slot in there is outside my scope, so the entire idea was jettisoned. I haven't actually fired the thing yet, but the measurements are really, really close to AGD spec for the chamber. Unless you go smaller than .680 barrel, I don't think it will matter.

But really if you’re looking to FSR up a classic mag, then the detent doesn’t much matter. Meanwhile this is cut for the D shape and already has the cocker threads. You just need to put a TL pin divot in the right place, which is pretty easy to do. And you guys are probably sick to death of me talking about weight, but it only weighs about an ounce, which is 1/3 what Doc's version weighs.

So the reason I’m bothering saying this is since the Trracer is discontinued, the spare bodies are getting kind of scarce.

I hope hope hope there isn’t some pile of Trracer bodies being turned into slag right now. You guys should check with “The Creator” to see if you can snatch up these bodies. You’re really only a divot and a detent slot away from some nice adapters.