Indian Creek Design

[going_home]

Rumors are ICD is getting back into paintball again now that the infamous Smart Parts electronic patents have expired.


http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae57/martix_agent/Capture_zpsx6mvbaq2.png



Thoughts ?

Anyone care ?

What about you Doug ?




:cool:

[Nobody]

They have not contacted me about it yet. I might contact them for some subcontractor work though.

I see this as a positive step. More gun options mean better competitive market. Hope that ICD has been paying attention to where thr market has gone in way of trends, i.e. hoseless guns, softer on paint.

[dboggs79]

If I had to guess, this will be more of a pl project on a an existing marker. I don't think they will come out swinging with something completely new in design.

[going_home]

Werent their guns fairly inefficient air-wise ?

[Nobody]

Yes and no. The earliest Freestyles were ghastly on efficiency. As bad as a mag if not worse. As the line progressed from the 1st FS to the FS8, it could do 1200+ shots off a 68/4.5k. The PM is as solid as other stacked tubed guns like Timmies or Egos. I can tune a B2K to vet upwards of 1600+ shots off a 68/4.5.

While having great efficiency is one less thing to worry about, normally you will barely carry more paint than you can shoot. So having a gun that could shoot a case, do you actually carry a case on the field? Plus, with more HPA at fields and even better fill stations, is getting a fill to top off your tank, that much a problem?

[Nobody]

If I had to guess, this will be more of a pl project on a an existing marker. I don't think they will come out swinging with something completely new in design.

Their previous incarnations & private label offerings were always people doing their guns, versus ICD doing their version of someone else's.

Now, the question is better asked is, is this teaser showing a face lift of the FS8 or PM(the last guns they produced) or is this a newer design? I am sure that ICD had acid in their mouth as they were forced out of paintball due to Jerry's health concerns and by the SP lawsuit & royalties. So they might have been secretly working on this for the past year in anticipation of this event, where they can finish on a high note or how they wish to go out. There was a progression in the line(i should know, i am a ICD nut) and every concern(except for the regs-they had the poopiest HPRs, but the LPRs were salvageable) was addressed.

So i am happy to see the interest back in the company.

[going_home]

Yes and no. The earliest Freestyles were ghastly on efficiency. As bad as a mag if not worse. As the line progressed from the 1st FS to the FS8, it could do 1200+ shots off a 68/4.5k. The PM is as solid as other stacked tubed guns like Timmies or Egos. I can tune a B2K to vet upwards of 1600+ shots off a 68/4.5.

While having great efficiency is one less thing to worry about, normally you will barely carry more paint than you can shoot. So having a gun that could shoot a case, do you actually carry a case on the field? Plus, with more HPA at fields and even better fill stations, is getting a fill to top off your tank, that much a problem?

I carry 4 - 185 round pods and a 260 hopper = 1k paintballs.

May carry more at Dreaded Legends though.

;)

[capt spank]

Who makes a 185 pod? I'm very interested in that.

[going_home]

Who makes a 185 pod? I'm very interested in that.

Pinokio used to.

I bought all the Ebay seller had when I realized they were going extinct.

[barkingspider]

Nice, they aren't too far away from me

[going_home]

What do you think about ICD Scott ?

[Njt11]

It's amazing news now we just need Tom return to agd and design something revolutionary again!

[dboggs79]

It's amazing news now we just need Tom return to agd and design something revolutionary again!

Don't hold your breath.

[GoatBoy]

Lol there's no money to be made in paintball.

[knownothingmags]

Lol there's no money to be made in paintball.

lol what are you talking about dye is made in china.
they make money pretty well lol
:stick:

[luke]

Did Youngblood move all manufacturing to China? I know he previously had the rough machining done there, then did the final machining in his shop. I know he had a hell of a shop a few years ago.

[knownothingmags]

Did Youngblood move all manufacturing to China? I know he previously had the rough machining done there, then did the final machining in his shop. I know he had a hell of a shop a few years ago.

that is probably the way it is done still.
I haven't been to the facility since 2012

[renie]

Most of the big firms use China as it can't be beaten on production costs
Then assembled in the country of so called production that way you get your made in the ......

[knownothingmags]

Most of the big firms use China as it can't be beaten on production costs
Then assembled in the country of so called production that way you get your made in the ......

yeah for sure.
like our parts the way we can call it made in the USA,
is because the majority of the $$$$ value of the parts were made in the USA.

[Spider-TW]

Then assembled in the country of so called production that way you get your made in the ......

And hopefully some quality control. The Chinese have the ability to produce good quality, but they don't seem to back check much in these cheap production facilities. Someone introduces some bad material or something gets off spec and they just continue on.

[luke]

And hopefully some quality control. The Chinese have the ability to produce good quality, but they don't seem to back check much in these cheap production facilities. Someone introduces some bad material or something gets off spec and they just continue on.

I've seen interviews with Chinese manufacturers and their claim is that the inferior products is more about American greed rather than the inability for them to manufacture quality parts. It's the demand of corporate America for bigger profits that has lead consumers into this never ending free fall of cheaply made imports. So many products off the shelf do not work or at least have a short life span. It's a pretty sad day when you choose something made in Taiwan over the China made counter part because the Taiwan stuff is so much better. We are getting to the point that made in the USA is not even an option on the shelf.

[Spider-TW]

I've seen interviews with Chinese manufacturers and their claim is that the inferior products is more about American greed rather than the inability for them to manufacture quality parts. It's the demand of corporate America for bigger profits that has lead consumers into this never ending free fall of cheaply made imports. So many products off the shelf do not work or at least have a short life span. It's a pretty sad day when you choose something made in Taiwan over the China made counter part because the Taiwan stuff is so much better. We are getting to the point that made in the USA is not even an option on the shelf.

I haven't seen my favorite label in a while, "Hecho en China". :confused:

Made in China and imported through Mexico.

A lot of the imports have a place though. When you only use a shovel one day every 10 years, you're selling a shovel to someone that wouldn't buy one if it cost any more. So we employ a bunch of shipping and sales people to get something done, instead of the one yard guy for a day. There's some trades there that aren't so bad. Americans buy all sorts of stuff they don't really need or have an actual use for. That stuff might as well be made in China.

I have seen some guys that make a (small) living with their own personal shovel. That's impressive for the shovel and the man. Very shiny shovel too.

[luke]

Literally, the last shovel I purchased lasted less than 5 minutes. But I still have an old shovel I found in a field 10 years ago that was clearly 30 years old when I found it. :)

[Spider-TW]

Literally, the last shovel I purchased lasted less than 5 minutes. But I still have an old shovel I found in a field 10 years ago that was clearly 30 years old when I found it. :)


Lol! It's funny how much quality differs even in shovels.

In the same vein as buying stuff I don't need, I'm often tempted to buy stuff just because of the quality.

[BLachance75]

I wish I only needed to use a shovel once ever 10 years. With my yard I'm using a shovel almost weekly, and a rake at least once, often twice a week. That isn't taking into account any holes that my dog decides she wants to dig.

[boo]

I've seen interviews with Chinese manufacturers and their claim is that the inferior products is more about American greed rather than the inability for them to manufacture quality parts. It's the demand of corporate America for bigger profits that has lead consumers into this never ending free fall of cheaply made imports. So many products off the shelf do not work or at least have a short life span. It's a pretty sad day when you choose something made in Taiwan over the China made counter part because the Taiwan stuff is so much better. We are getting to the point that made in the USA is not even an option on the shelf.
I have a buddy that's in QA for a company that works between chinese and US manufacturing. He says the same thing. The stuff the middle class Chinese are buying that is made in China is infinitely better then the crap they send us.

It was like when the American companies made stuff in Japan in the 80's, it was crappy. Then the Japanese companies started selling quality Japanese made products and they were considered quality products. Now people pay extra for made in Japan.

I also have some Italian made furniture. It's ****, because its made for Ikea.

Where it's made doesn't determine quality, it's the extent companies go to make it cheaper. American manufacturing is making a big comeback. Its not for better quality, but cost analysis on a lot of products show its logistically cheaper to make it here instead of shippong it here.

[Spider-TW]

American manufacturing is making a big comeback. Its not for better quality, but cost analysis on a lot of products show its logistically cheaper to make it here instead of shippong it here.

The penetration of CNC machines to smaller volume shops like Luke is making a lot of things possible and practical, where they weren't before. ICD can make 100 to 1,000 markers with intricate machining much easier than they could have 10 years ago. Between CNC and 3D printing, there's a lot of custom machining capability getting more practical.

[boo]

Did Youngblood move all manufacturing to China? I know he previously had the rough machining done there, then did the final machining in his shop. I know he had a hell of a shop a few years ago.

They do a lot of contract machining, so my guess is the good machines do the more lucrative stuff. I heard the thing that saved them from going completely under was a big government contract they signed recently. I'm not sure if that was a machine contract or a helmet contract through their aquisition of protec helmets.

Thank the paintball gods for government contracts, or there would never be quality shops making quality gear.

[SoulCoffin]

So ICD's first step back into the gun game is a pump

92249

looks really nice, but at $500, I think I'd just go cheaper and get a decent sniper

[splat15k]

There seems to be a lot of balking at the price point...what were people expecting for a gun that's manufactured, not just assembled, in the USA?

[Flatliner333]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6K2raj6JTzw

[boo]

So ICD's first step back into the gun game is a pump

92249

looks really nice, but at $500, I think I'd just go cheaper and get a decent sniper

It's $120 more then an overseas made Empire sniper. Go and ask Sniper owners that have done 0 modifications to theirs how much they like them and how smooth the pump stroke is.

I would easily spend $120 more for a nice q/a'd smooth pump stroke and quality American machining. Plus this is a much lower manufacturing volume marker so it will be more unique. Also look at how much more complex and smoother the milling is over the sniper.

It's $200 cheaper then an MVP and way less then most used custom Nelson valved markers for (carter, gargoyle, etc).

I think their price point is right on the money.

[going_home]

CCM'S cheapest in stock is over 800.

http://store.chipleymachine.com/paintball-markers/

[Spider-TW]

It's macro-less!!!! :rolleyes:

I'm curious on the pump stroke and internals, considering "Nelson" usually means "kind of compatible".

Hopefully it's improved.

[SoulCoffin]

Go and ask Sniper owners that have done 0 modifications to theirs how much they like them and how smooth the pump stroke is.

heh, ok! hey me, how much do you like your unmodded sniper? oh, hi me. i like it a lot! :)

and i didn't necessarily mean empire's sniper, but any sniper. i've seen many people put together very nice ones for less than $500.

it's all good, though. i'll probably look for ones of these, used, when the price comes down a bit.