RT PRO with level 10 chopping paint

[Mondoatx]

Hey guys,

Picked up an RT Pro a few weeks back. Initially I was using a ninja 68 4500 at a preset output pressure of about 800 psi.

I didn't like the trigger so I replaced that reg (on the bottle) with a SHP reg with an output of 1100 psi. This made the trigger super reactive and it flies now.

Took it out to play today and I was breaking more than 3 balls out of every hundred all day (shot 800-900 rounds).

I was emailing with an AGD tech a few weeks ago and he explained to me it has a level 10 bolt after I described the power tube to him.

The paint was breaking in the breach, not the barrel. You can tell because when you remove the hopper there is paint in the gun's feed neck and the neck of the hopper as well.

Few different things:
-I thought the level 10 bolt was supposed to stop the bolt from chopping paint.

-How can I confirm I do in fact have a level 10?

-How can I resolve this?

Additional information:
-I am using an old school revolution hopper. I suppose the hopper could be too slow to keep up with the gun but isn't the level 10 supposed to stop the bolt if the ball is not completely chambered?

-Today I used a 14 inch smart parts freak barrel system with a .687 insert. The paint fit the insert snugly and I was able to blow it through using my breath.

-The gun has a vertical feed body. Not sure if it is AGD or aftermarket.

-I broke paint with the 800 psi compressed air reg... Just seems like it got worse with the 1100 psi reg today.

-The bolt does not have a foamie.

-I was sometimes breaking the first shot... Not always a chop in the middle of a string of shots...

Thanks for any help you can offer or recommendations you can make. This would be one sweet gun if I could get this addressed.

Mondoatx

[Laku]

Lvl 10 should have foamie in it.

You can recognize lvl 10 bolt from that its stem goes below bolt lip and is hollow. Also lvl 10 bolt back lip has chamfer on it.

Is that twist lock body or auto cocker threaded?

Also check the detents, which ever style they are.

If it is lvl 10 then here's how to tune it. Direct link to Athomases post. http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?43538-**-Official-Level-10-Problems-Thread-**&p=2828797#post2828797

[Nobody]

Hey guys,

Picked up an RT Pro a few weeks back. Initially I was using a ninja 68 4500 at a preset output pressure of about 800 psi.

I didn't like the trigger so I replaced that reg (on the bottle) with a SHP reg with an output of 1100 psi. This made the trigger super reactive and it flies now.

Took it out to play today and I was breaking more than 3 balls out of every hundred all day (shot 800-900 rounds).

I was emailing with an AGD tech a few weeks ago and he explained to me it has a level 10 bolt after I described the power tube to him.

The paint was breaking in the breach, not the barrel. You can tell because when you remove the hopper there is paint in the gun's feed neck and the neck of the hopper as well.

Just because paint in the breech, does not necessarily mean that it is chopping.


Few different things:
-I thought the level 10 bolt was supposed to stop the bolt from chopping paint.

When properly set up, paint will bounce off a mag with a L10. Poor man's test is, take the gun airred up & put a pen cap in the breech & pull the trigger. It should bounce off it and reset itself. If not then, you do not have a L10 or its not set up correctly.


-How can I confirm I do in fact have a level 10?

Follow the steps from the other poster. You should also have had a small disk, brass collars, orings and shims with the gun. If you didn't have them, then you kore than likely didn't get it with the gun.


-How can I resolve this?

If you bought the gun and it was supposed to have a L10, then contact AGD and they will rectify the problem. Mistakes sometimes do happen.


Additional information:
-I am using an old school revolution hopper. I suppose the hopper could be too slow to keep up with the gun but isn't the level 10 supposed to stop the bolt if the ball is not completely chambered?

No. Regardless of the hopper, the bolt will bounce off an improperly seated ball.


-Today I used a 14 inch smart parts freak barrel system with a .687 insert. The paint fit the insert snugly and I was able to blow it through using my breath.

Was it hot out? Paint can swell causing the bore to go from "snug" to possibly "too tight". Also check the bore and the barrel itself for nicks, burrs or anything else that shouldn't be there.


-The gun has a vertical feed body. Not sure if it is AGD or aftermarket.

If you look on the site, and it looks a ULE body, then it is one.


-I broke paint with the 800 psi compressed air reg... Just seems like it got worse with the 1100 psi reg today.

I do not believe in using SHP regs as they can cause more problems. The more reactive the trigger is, the faster the gun will shot & the faster the balls get into breech. Faster is not always better.


-The bolt does not have a foamie.

It doesn't have one, i.e. it was shot off the bolt face (there should be a place to put it on the bolt face, a cut out) or did it never have one? If you have a solid nosed bolt, then you did not have a L10 bolt.


-I was sometimes breaking the first shot... Not always a chop in the middle of a string of shots...

Again, paint is a variable & it may be other factors in the breaks. If the paint swelled, then the balls that were breaking where caused by the barrel. If you couldn'tshot it out the barrel, then the only place it could go is in the breech.


Thanks for any help you can offer or recommendations you can make. This would be one sweet gun if I could get this addressed.

Mondoatx

That is what this site is here for. Honestly, pic of the gun, bolt and body would help in identifying any problems you have.

But here are questions for you:

Where did you get this gun?
Did you buy it new from AGD or used?
Did you change or adjust anything prior to you using it?
Do you have a classic valve (stainless steel) or a valve that says RT Pro or has a X on it?

[Mondoatx]

Laku,

Thanks for your response.

I will take a picture(s) of the bolt and power tube components this evening and post it. The bolt stem is hollow and extends beyond the base of the bolt.

The body is threaded for auto cocker barrels.

When you say check the detents... What exactly am I checking for? How do I know if the detent is good or bad?

Will take a look at the post about tuning the level 10... But I bought the gun used and it didn't come with any extra shims or parts of anything.

Thanks again for your help.

Mondoatx

[ghost flanker]

To check the detents, remove the air tank and hopper from your gun and press on the detent(s) inside the breech with your finger. Good detents feel springy and offer some resistance against being pressed in.

A detent with a bad spring may have close to zero resistance or it may have a tendency to stick or stay in when being pressed in. This will allow double feeds to occur, causing breaks in the breech. A detent can also lose its teflon ball which will allow the seated paintball to rest in the empty space to the side and slightly forward where the teflon ball used to be, also causing breaks in the breech as well as other symptoms.

[audioSLAVE]

To check the detents, remove the air tank and hopper from your gun and press on the detent(s) inside the breech with your finger. Good detents feel springy and offer some resistance against being pressed in.

A detent with a bad spring may have close to zero resistance or it may have a tendency to stick or stay in when being pressed in. This will allow double feeds to occur, causing breaks in the breech. A detent can also lose its teflon ball which will allow the seated paintball to rest in the empty space to the side and slightly forward where the teflon ball used to be, also causing breaks in the breech as well as other symptoms.
You also want to make sure you or the previous owner didn't over tighten them so they are making contact with the bolt.

[ghost flanker]

Assuming your detent is good, though, I think the most likely culprit is the missing foamie on your Level 10 bolt. This is bad for 2 reasons:

1.) The obvious... Foam is soft. Aluminum not so much.

2.) Much more importantly, the Level 10 foamie is responsible for seating the paintball in the correct position up against the detent(s) and keeping it in-line with the ball stack. In the case of a missing foamie, the seated paintball is able to roll backwards about 1/8" towards the bolt. This allows the next paintball above to drop further down a little more and slightly in front of the seated paintball, creating more of a staggered stack rather than a true vertical stack. This sets the stage for a lot more friction between the first two paintballs to occur when firing. Now, when the gun is fired, the seated paintball must push the paintball on top and slightly in front of it out of the way. The paintball on top will either be pushed upward through the feedneck as the seated paintball underneath slides past it, or the two paintballs will simply be crushed into each other, which would explain the presence of paint in your feedneck. Or the paintball on top might only develop a hairline crack in its shell, thereby priming it to blow apart upon the impact of the next shot's air blast.

I do not think that an overly small bore size is causing the breaks. If you can consistently blow your paintballs through the barrel in the morning, then you'll be fine throughout the rest of the day, even with humidity. I underbore all the time, ~.686 sized paint with a .682 bore insert on my mags and a .679 insert on my Phantom, and I don't break paint.

By the way, what kind of paint were you using that was breaking so badly?

[maniacmechanic]

How was your paint quality ??

[athomas]

I've had paint that was so bad, that I couldn't fire a shot out my barrel without it breaking, even with the level 10. That was with a properly sized barrel. With experience, I have come to overbore all my barrels and don't have that issue any more. Good paint benefits from a proper bore match. Overboring, doesn't hurt the accuracy that much but does affect the efficiency a bit. The upside is that it really helps prevent busted balls when you have really brittle paint.

The level 10 bolt only prevents chops in the first 1/4 inch of the bolt movement. The bolt would need to be at the back of the breach for a ball to be partially loaded which is a situation that would cause it to be chopped. The bolt would be very gentle when it made contact with the ball in that location. Once it gets past the 1/4 inch point, the bolt is subject to full forward force. If the barrel offers too much resistance due to an oversize ball, or a barrel is too tight for the paint, then the force of the bolt will smash it into the opening causing some of the paint to squirt back onto the bolt and up into the breach. This can happen even if the paint barely touches the barrel walls, if the seams are extremely weak. Its something that should be looked at.

Normally, a level 10 bolt will prevent all chops, even if you use the shortest gold spring. The air source doesn't matter. The force on the bolt is held constant by the regulated air set by the velocity adjuster. If the first shot in a string is busting, then that is an indication that you are not experiencing a chop, but rather a barrel break.

[Mondoatx]

[QUOTE=Nobody;2902345]Just because paint in the breech, does not necessarily mean that it is chopping.



When properly set up, paint will bounce off a mag with a L10. Poor man's test is, take the gun airred up & put a pen cap in the breech & pull the trigger. It should bounce off it and reset itself. If not then, you do not have a L10 or its not set up correctly.

I stuck the body of a pen (without the ink in it) in the breech and fired it a couple of times... I was expecting it to destroy the pen... but the bolt stopped and reset multiple times (it was crazy!)... From what I have read, this means I do in fact have a level 10... does this mean it is tuned correctly?

Follow the steps from the other poster. You should also have had a small disk, brass collars, orings and shims with the gun. If you didn't have them, then you kore than likely didn't get it with the gun.



If you bought the gun and it was supposed to have a L10, then contact AGD and they will rectify the problem. Mistakes sometimes do happen.



No. Regardless of the hopper, the bolt will bounce off an improperly seated ball.



Was it hot out? Paint can swell causing the bore to go from "snug" to possibly "too tight". Also check the bore and the barrel itself for nicks, burrs or anything else that shouldn't be there.

It was hot out, I am in Texas... but it was breaking just as much in the morning when it was cooler as it was in the afternoon.

If you look on the site, and it looks a ULE body, then it is one.

It is a ULE Body (it has the flames milled into the feed neck)

I do not believe in using SHP regs as they can cause more problems. The more reactive the trigger is, the faster the gun will shot & the faster the balls get into breech. Faster is not always better.



It doesn't have one, i.e. it was shot off the bolt face (there should be a place to put it on the bolt face, a cut out) or did it never have one? If you have a solid nosed bolt, then you did not have a L10 bolt.

I will order some and put one on the bolt. Now that you mention it... if you look closely at the face of the bolt (which is totally flat) you can see where it looks like something was glued there before.

Again, paint is a variable & it may be other factors in the breaks. If the paint swelled, then the balls that were breaking where caused by the barrel. If you couldn'tshot it out the barrel, then the only place it could go is in the breech.

I will try a larger insert next time.

That is what this site is here for. Honestly, pic of the gun, bolt and body would help in identifying any problems you have.

But here are questions for you:

Where did you get this gun? I bought it used from a field called Outlaw Paintball in Pflugerville TX.
Did you buy it new from AGD or used? Used
Did you change or adjust anything prior to you using it? No, I tried to put a power tube spacer kit in it but as soon as I opened the power tube it was abundantly obvious that this was not an old school mag with spacers.
Do you have a classic valve (stainless steel) or a valve that says RT Pro or has a X on it? The valve is black with an X and the letters "RT" over the X with the word "pro" to the right of the letters "RT"

I have attached an image of the gun and a couple of the bolt (1 of the back of the bolt and 1 of the front of the bolt). First time posting images... if you can't view them please let me know.

928829288392884

Thanks Nobody!

[Mondoatx]

Thanks ghost flanker.

I checked the detent and while it did offer some resistance... it seemed a little loose, so I ordered some new detents from the AGD website.

I also checked out the foamies on the site... they look way different (thicker) and cover WAY more surface area than the old level 7 foamies from back in the day (those were a tiny foam circle that went right in the middle of the bolt's face)... so I ordered some of those as well. I can see that with the size and thickness of the foamie not having one could possibly make a huge difference.

I threw away the bag from the paint and can't remember what kind it was... but it is what I have been using for the last few months with no problem in my Rize (which is super easy on paint, haven't ever broken a ball with that gun). The shell is purple (like a lavender) with green stripes and the fill is purple.

I will go to the field again in a week or so and I will let you know what kind it was.

Thanks again,

Mondoatx

[Mondoatx]

audioSLAVE,

Thanks. I ordered some new detents because the one in there now seems a little loose. I will make sure not to overtighten when I install the new ones.

[vintage]

which bolt spring is it using(gold, red, or grey) and how does it look?

[Mondoatx]

honestly the paint seems kind of hard... it is regular to have to shoot people 2-3 times to get one to break... it didn't seem any better or worse than any other weekend... but it definitely didn't seem overly brittle. I play at a field that is pretty busy... so I don't think they sit on their paint for too long.

[Mondoatx]

Thanks athomas.

I will try to overbore next time I am out and will see how it goes. Good point with the first shot in a string...

Mondoatx

[vintage]

way back in the day it was not uncommon at all. now days I don't get to play enough to know. I do know that the Valken we used at Tuna ball this year bounced a lot like we used to get back in the 90's. but hard paint should be harder to break in the gun.

[Mondoatx]

vintage,

It is the gold spring. It looks like a spring ;-)

What do you mean exactly when you say "how does it look"?

Thanks,

mondoatx

[vintage]

does it stick past the end of the bolt and how far? you may need a new one. and welcome to the forum by the way.

[Mondoatx]

Vintage,

Thanks.

Yes, the spring sticks out past the bolt.

Here is an image:

92885

[Beemer]

Is that an illusion because of the angle of the picture or is that bolt stem off center?


http://www.automags.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=92884&d=1473730703&thumb=1

[vintage]

spring looks a little short to me. i'm sure a more knowledgeable person will chime in.

[Mondoatx]

Is that an illusion because of the angle of the picture or is that bolt stem off center?


http://www.automags.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=92884&d=1473730703&thumb=1

It is the angle... The stem of he bolt is centered.

[Sandman]

Mondoatx,

Paintball breakage is the most common and most misdiagnosed problem in paintball. The issue is the problem can stem from paintball quality all the way to gun malfunctions. You have to eliminate issues one at a time so you can narrow it down.
Paint is relatively easy. Do a simple bounce test. While not terribly scientific, it says a lot about the paintball. Simply hold the ball at shoulder height and drop it on a smooth flat hard surface like a garage or basement floor. On the average you'll be dropping from 5 ft. If that ball bounces at least once before breaking...its most likely not the paint. Be sure to test several balls from a couple bags to get the best sample. If the paint breaks every time you drop it... consider the paint is very brittle and may be the issue.

Detents. Detents are the second most common paint problem. It's simple to test. Put your hopper on with paintballs in it at least half full. Turn your hopper on. Let the loader cycle until it shuts off and sets up the gun ready to shoot. Now remove your barrel. If the hopper turns on and paint starts to stream out the front of your body, then the detent is not working. This means the gun will load more than one paintball in your barrel and that's a sure bet to break paint.

The Gun. Before messing with levels 10's and making changes, you bought the gun used. When was the last time the entire gun was service? If you have no idea, then service the entire gun. That means a complete soft o-ring change out across the entire gun along with a serious detailed cleaning. Once that's done you can reset the level 10 and in most cases if you've done all that I've said here, you will already be done. The gun will not break paint if it is serviced and functioning properly.

If the gun somehow continues to break paint after doing all of the above, then most likely then gun is also just not shooting properly. In other words there is something seriously out of spec and the gun just won't shoot right no matter what you do.
At that point send the gun into the Factory or Tuna or turn it over to someone who has spare parts and components that can determine the out of spec issue.

[Mondoatx]

Sandman,

Thanks I will check the paint and the detents.

Regarding servicing the gun... couple of questions (more than a couple I guess):
-When you say "soft" o-ring change... what exactly does that NOT include?
-I can wipe down the gun and the internals and re-oil everything... does that suffice in terms of cleaning, or am I missing something? Am I just looking to remove grime?
-How do I "reset" the level 10?
-I saw the replacement carrier piece for sale on the AGD site... I thought I needed multiple sizes to see which one fit the best... but I only saw 1 on the site.
-Do I need to order shims for the power tube or a new spring for the bolt?

Thanks for all the information.

Mondoatx

[Nobody]

Sandman,

Thanks I will check the paint and the detents.

Regarding servicing the gun... couple of questions (more than a couple I guess)

The more questions you ask, the more you can and will learn, so never think a question is too stupid to ask.


-When you say "soft" o-ring change... what exactly does that NOT include?

This can mean 2 things: 1) replacing all the orings that are actually soft and gummy or 2) replacing all the orings that are in moving areas to better seal against those parts.


-I can wipe down the gun and the internals and re-oil everything... does that suffice in terms of cleaning, or am I missing something? Am I just looking to remove grime?

No, that is pretty much how you clean then gun. You do not have to pre-oil it, as you can assemble the gun but put 3-5 xrops of oil into the ASA or directly into the air input valve then airing the gun up and shooting out the excess. This will get the oil to where its needed.


-How do I "reset" the level 10?

After the gun has been serviced (see above), you then re-install the L10, using the smallest carrier and shims (if needed).


-I saw the replacement carrier piece for sale on the AGD site... I thought I needed multiple sizes to see which one fit the best... but I only saw 1 on the site.

You can order specific sizes. I believe you can order the specific sizes (after determing which one you have).


-Do I need to order shims for the power tube or a new spring for the bolt?
That depends on if you do the work yourself or if you send it to AGD or Tuna. They will use appropriate size sizes and parts.


Thanks for all the information.

Mondoatx

I do understand wanting to fix this yourself (getting into the gun, understanding how it works and how the parts interact with each other) or just sending it away to those that can fix it and get any possible problems fixed quickly. So you have a choice.

Also, if you do order your parts through Tuna, you can tell him exactly what you need and what you are doing and he will sell you exactly what you need.

[Mondoatx]

I sent Tuna an email. He said he could service the gun and tune the bolt for me, so I think I am going to send it to him. I will be sure to let everyone know how things turn out. Thanks for your help up to this point.

mondoatx

[Tunaman]

I sent Tuna an email. He said he could service the gun and tune the bolt for me, so I think I am going to send it to him. I will be sure to let everyone know how things turn out. Thanks for your help up to this point.

mondoatx
Yes. Send it here and I will get you going.

[halB]

I sent Tuna an email. He said he could service the gun and tune the bolt for me, so I think I am going to send it to him. I will be sure to let everyone know how things turn out. Thanks for your help up to this point.

mondoatx

Tuna is the man for these sorts of things. It sounds like he already has your business, but I can never recommend him enough. Tuna is one of the pillars of the Automag community.

[Cyco-Dude]

I am using an old school revolution hopper

come on dude, those only do 10 bps max. get a spire or rotor on that thing.

[Mondoatx]

Agreed... the gun is a recent addition... will be getting a more appropriate hopper soon ;-)

[Nobody]

A revy can get up to 12ish bps, but more to the point that if the L10 is working correctly, it won't matter what loader you're using, it will still stop the chop ;)

[blackdeath1k]

I may get blasted for this. BUT. As nice as a L10 is. A shp tank running 1100psi in to an rt with no ball stack since its vert feed and a revvy is asking for chops. A L10 may stop 9/10 rapid fire overshoots but its not a 100% cure all. On the flip side first shot brakes have nothing to do with loader or L10 itself so i would deff agree more is going on here than just overshooting a hopper.

Also the old AGD foamies looked like the current ones. I've till got some mixed in from the late 90s. ANS had the venturi bolt that used the little dot stickers.

[Mondoatx]

Blackdeath,

Now that you mention it... I was using an ANS Venturi bolt with my old mag from the 90s (whole different gun I sold long ago). The stock bolt on that was foamiless... So this is the first I am seeing of the non-tiny dot foamy.

Also... I obviously need to upgrade the loader... Would a dye rotor do the job?

Thanks for the input.

Mondoatx

[ghost flanker]

With a feed rate of 35 bps, the reliable Dye Rotor will do the job multiple times over. My R2 is essential for keeping up with a bouncing RT trigger when I feel the carnal urge to summon an unholy hailstorm of paint onto an inanimate target. Even the Spire doesn't quite keep up when I rip 25 bps ropes out of my mags. A Revy is useless in this situation.

A used 1st gen Rotor will run you about $100, so not too bad. And three AAA batteries are cheaper than two 9 volts.

Now the downsides...

I'll tell you right now, a Rotor will be too big to fit in your stock ULE feedneck. A Spire will fit very, very snugly. Get an adustable feedneck for use with a Rotor or be happy with short bursts or slower rapid fire with a Spire.

Or... stick with your Revy! Or at least hold on to it. If you don't plan on rapid firing during a game, then a Rotor is kinda overkill, though it'll work just fine, too. But I gotta say, I actually kinda prefer my Revy over, both, my Rotor and my Spire. Yes, Revys are a bit on the tall side, but the Revy offers a much less obstructed field of view while aiming down the barrel on a low rise feedneck than does a fatter, lower-sitting, modern hopper (e.g. Rotor, Spire, etc.). Plus, Revys have the bonus of rain-proofing the contents of your hopper while the lid is closed. Rotors and spires do not.

[Mondoatx]

ghost flanker,

I do plan on doing some rapid firing... and with the output pressure of my compressed air being at 1100 PSI the ROF that gun is capable of is ungodly...

So let me make sure I understand this... So to use a Rotor you are saying I would need to buy a new body with a clamping feedneck?

I will hold onto the revvy for sure... it works well on my Rize.

Thanks,

Mondatx

[ghost flanker]

No, the feedneck unscrews from your ULE body. It's likely to be on there pretty tight and might pose a challenge to remove without scratching up the anno. Once you've got it removed, your new clamping feedneck will need to be Angel threaded.

[Sandman]

Use a heat gun to remove the feedneck. That is the proper way.

Tuna is the man for custom work.

At AGD we will reset to factory or sell new, but not custom work. for that you see Tuna.

[going_home]

A strap wrench.

http://www.harborfreight.com/2-pc-rubber-strap-wrench-set-69373.html

Feednecks and bottle regs.

And a bench vise with the rubber protectors.

https://www.amazon.com/Rubber-Magnetic-Jaws-Protection-Projects/dp/B00A4YQR5E


;)

[ghost flanker]

Maybe not the best method, but I use my Revy (the kind with the softer, stronger shell...do not try this with the hard plastic shell) to remove the stock feedneck. Twist the Revy counterclockwise while its in the feedneck and within a full turn the induced friction between the hopper and feedneck cup will overcome the friction between the threads, and the threads will just suddenly break free. At least it works for me. Your individual results may vary depending on how snug your particular Revy fits in your stock feedneck vs. how tight your feedneck is screwed in.

But if you got a heat gun or a strap wrench, then use those.

[Sandman]

Ghost,

That's a great way to turn the feedneck. clamp a loader in and turn. the issue is if you don't loosen the loctite with heat you can destroy the threads. Loctite can bond so tightly to the metal that it will rip the threads before giving itself up.
This happens literally all the time to bottles that someone has loctited the regulator into the bottle and does happen to feednecks that have been overly secured....

It all depends on the loctite and how well it was done or not done....

But you are taking a big risk to just apply force, because when it breaks it just may take the threads with it. Now you have a .10 cent piece of aluminum instead of $135 body.

[Mondoatx]

Thanks for the info guys...

This brings up another question.. If I get an adjustable feed neck (or a clamping feedneck, whatever you want to call it) will it adjust enough to let me use either the revvy OR a rotor... or I am giving up the ability to use the revvy?

Just curious and trying to look at this from all angles before I make a decision.

Thanks all.

Mondoatx

[ghost flanker]

Sandman,

Really? If that's the case, then using a strap wrench and vice without a heat gun is an even worse idea. At least the Revy-twist method allows a good amount of give/slippage between the hopper and stock feedneck to occur, thereby limiting the actual force being exerted on the threads. It honestly seems to be just enough force to break the threads free without much of a risk of destroying anything. The Revy's neck is just the right size for this. If, say, red or black loctite was used, then the Revy would just spin in the feedneck without anything happening, though I suppose anything is possible when it comes to things breaking. By the way, as a disclaimer, my Revy-twist method is not meant for anything other than a stock nonadjustable AGD ULE feedneck. I would not try this with a clamping feedneck.

Also, the stock feedneck on my Tac-One body seemed to only be locked in by friction; I did not see any telltale white dust in the threads the first time I removed it. If any, what color loctite does AGD use on their aluminum bodies??? Or are you just inferring the possibility that previous owners of ULE bodies could have applied loctite?

[ghost flanker]

Mondoatx,

An adjustable/clamping feedneck will allow you to use any hopper you want...Revy, Rotor, whatever. The only thing you will likely be giving up is a feedneck that matches the color of your blue ULE body. You might get lucky and find a matching blue one, though.

[athomas]

Also, the stock feedneck on my Tac-One body seemed to only be locked in by friction; I did not see any telltale white dust in the threads the first time I removed it. If any, what color loctite does AGD use on their aluminum bodies??? Or are you just inferring the possibility that previous owners of ULE bodies could have applied loctite?Some seem to come off easier than others. The body I got from AGD has a feedneck that is so tight, that when I put the body in the clamp, I couldn't apply enough pressure to break it free without distorting the metal. I let off the force when I felt that it might be destructive. I left it alone after that. One of these days, I am going to get out my heat gun and heat it up to break the bond and remove the feedneck though. I do want a clamping feed neck.

[ghost flanker]

Wow, ok. The way I discovered my Revy-twist method was purely on accident. I was just trying to insert a Revy all the way into the stock feedneck. As I did so, I twisted the Revy around while pushing down to help it slide in. As I twisted left, though, the feedneck suddenly came loose. I'm the 2nd owner of the body, so it's possible the previous owner had already broken it loose before I ever got it. :/

[Mondoatx]

So... I went and played today with my Rize (RT Pro is still with Tuna) and I wanted to update everyone on the type of paint I was using (as promised).

It is Empire Marballizer...

It shoots out of my Rize with no problem.

Just wanted to let you guys know.

Mondoatx.

[ghost flanker]

That's odd. Empire's Marballizer has never seemed even slightly brittle at all in my experience.

...I just did the drop test (6 feet, flat concrete, low humidity, 80 degrees) on some Marballizer paint that's been sitting under my bed in a sealed bag for about a year. Each ball was still intact after 10 drops. Maybe they harden with age instead of becoming more brittle. :/

If you got any of that paint left, do the drop test and report back.

[Sandman]

Sandman,

Really? If that's the case, then using a strap wrench and vice without a heat gun is an even worse idea. At least the Revy-twist method allows a good amount of give/slippage between the hopper and stock feedneck to occur, thereby limiting the actual force being exerted on the threads. It honestly seems to be just enough force to break the threads free without much of a risk of destroying anything. The Revy's neck is just the right size for this. If, say, red or black loctite was used, then the Revy would just spin in the feedneck without anything happening, though I suppose anything is possible when it comes to things breaking. By the way, as a disclaimer, my Revy-twist method is not meant for anything other than a stock nonadjustable AGD ULE feedneck. I would not try this with a clamping feedneck.

Also, the stock feedneck on my Tac-One body seemed to only be locked in by friction; I did not see any telltale white dust in the threads the first time I removed it. If any, what color loctite does AGD use on their aluminum bodies??? Or are you just inferring the possibility that previous owners of ULE bodies could have applied loctite?

Ghost,

Ruined feedneck threads from improper installation or removal is not just an Automag issue by any means. Happens with all guns. On bottles too. The stuck valves will destroy the bottle threads...makes the bottle useless.

Most bodies we sell, get sold without a feedneck being installed. That means most customers are installing their own. We primarily use green loctite 290. Green is medium strength and is very thin. Does not leave much behind when it is broken. Green will wick too. It will find it's way around the threads. Red 271 is too strong and causes most of the issues in paintball with aluminum threads. You can use red but only on stainless, brass or steel threads and fittings. I like to use red on steel braided lines and quick disconnects if I'm not planning on taking them apart for a long time. Blue 242 is ok for locking screws and possibly feednecks, but in my experience it breaks too easily unless you pour it on and using too much presents it's own problems.

Cya!

[Mondoatx]

Ok... so I finally did the drop test on some of the paint.

Out of 5 balls... 3 of them didn't break after being dropped 5 times... 1 broke on the second drop... and 1 broke on the 4th drop.

I dropped them from shoulder height onto the garage floor (cement).

Let me know your thoughts.

Mondoatx

[Mondoatx]

oh...

And each one that broke did so on the 2nd or third impact with the floor... never the first impact. The ones that didn't break bounced 2-3 times.