Fitting an intelliframe

[Systemx]

Hi all I'm new to the forum and Automags in general. I recently purchased an eclipse splash mag which has an Xvalve and level 10 bolt fitted but it's definitely not working correctly. Spares for Mags in general in the U.K. Are seemingly a little more difficult to come by however I am aware that there is still a good supply stateside 👍

I now want to get her up and running and while I'm very pleased with the overall condition it does appear to have a few issues,

1) It leaked down the barrel when I first air'd it up and I finally pinned this down to a bad o ring between the power tube and the valve body. (Sorted I think)

2) with the old trigger frame fitted to the marker. It will fire but the bolt seems to stick and while it does shoot abeilt slowly it will not R/T and seems to chuff between shots.

3) I have now purchased an intelliframe and fitted it but now the marker won't shoot at all, which is now my main issue.

I have looked over the existing threads and found a lot about not adjusting the trigger rod (I'm sorry if that's the wrong terminology) but given that it shoots with the standard trigger frame installed I feel that the on/off valve is working correctly and as far as I can see it's almost like the sear is not actually activating the on/off valve at all.

The sear rod upon air up is pushed forward into the trigger as is normal? But it is stiff, stiffer than it is when the standard trigger frame (plastic type with single grip screw that has had the trigger guard cut to accommodate the double trigger)

The sear in the marker has UL stamped on it and as far as I can tell it's compatible with the intelliframe.

I suspect that I need to buy a spacer kit for the bolt to address the 'chuffing' issue but I am stumped with regards to the no shooting issue with the intelliframe.

Any help you guys can offer will be greatfully received.

[captian pinky]

adjust the sear rod so that when aired up it has a credit card thickness gap between the back of the trigger and the front of the sear rod.

[Laku]

adjust the sear rod so that when aired up it has a credit card thickness gap between the back of the trigger and the front of the sear rod, when trigger is resting against safety .


Fixed it little.

[Systemx]

Hi guys thanks for the replies, The intelliframe I have does not have a saftey pin in it unfortunately but I shall try this anyway. Please bear with me I don't wish to sound stupid but I guess I'm winding the rod 'in' as at the moment when I air it up the rod is firmly pressed against the trigger

[captian pinky]

depends if it is already touching the trigger or is to far away from the trigger.

[Laku]

If you're unsure just take pictures. We'll help the best we can.

Bolt stick sounds like your lvl 10 carrier is too tight. So you'll probably need to tune it. Here's direct link on Athomases post on how to do that. http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?43538-**-Official-Level-10-Problems-Thread-**&p=2828797#post2828797

[Systemx]

At the moment it's touching the trigger, pushing in to it

[Systemx]

That's great thank you so much, can I post pics on here?

[Laku]

At the moment it's touching the trigger, pushing in to it

Ok. That's too far. I assume the rail bushin is in its place?

[Systemx]

Yes I believe so if that's the brass bush that goes through the rail and the field screw goes through? I'll check it and make sure it's in place properly

[Laku]

Yes I believe so if that's the brass bush that goes through the rail and the field screw goes through? I'll check it and make sure it's in place properly

That's the one.

[Systemx]

Ok success with the non shooting issues I have adjusted the rod and that seems to have sorted it, thanks guys!! I assume that there should be a little slack before the trigger touches the sear rod then?

It's still chuffing and I can't get a very good rate of fire 🔥 so I will need to get a spacer kit to sort that out I guess?

[Laku]

Ok success with the non shooting issues I have adjusted the rod and that seems to have sorted it, thanks guys!! I assume that there should be a little slack before the trigger touches the sear rod then?


Yes, about credit card thickness.


It's still chuffing and I can't get a very good rate of fire �� so I will need to get a spacer kit to sort that out I guess?

What you need are called lvl-10 carriers. Tuna can help you on those (Tunamart link on top, use the email for ordering)

[Systemx]

Thanks Laku, I really appreciate your help today I shall look into the level 10 carriers and get them ordered up hopefully get it running properly soon as there is an 'old school' marker game at my local site on the cards I have heard.

[Laku]

Oh and the obvious (in case you already haven't) 2-3 drops of oil in the Asa and cycle the gun about 20 shots without the barrel. That'll get the oil where it's needed.

[Systemx]

Cool I shall do that as I can't remember if I have or not. Whilst on the subject is tri flow oil ok to use it's the stuff that's recommended for the bob long victory, I have one and lots of tri flow oil!! If not I guess light sewing machine oil like a cocker?

[Nobody]

For oil, air tool oil is an ok substitute. I prefer KC Troublefree or the rebranded outkast oil. I do not know of the others

[Systemx]

Thanks for that I will have to see if outlast is available over here but that being said I'm sure they ship but the shipping will likely be 4 x what the oil costs!!!

[Tunaman]

OK. We need to find out which Level 10 carrier is in you gun now.
1-Take the valve out
2-Remove the brass Powertube Tip with a 3/8" wrench.
3-using the rear field strip screw as a tool, screw it down into the powertube/carrier oring untill it grabs a bit.
4-pull out the carrier assembly and shims if any
5-look on the side of the carrier for any dots or lines. The amount of dots and or lines will determine what size carrier it is. Once we know that I can send you waht you need. I got your email and will reply tonight once I get the info needed here...

[vintage]

check your bolt spring as well as your carriers. also what barrel type does it have? level 10's and the twistlock detents sometimes don't get along.

[Systemx]

OK. We need to find out which Level 10 carrier is in you gun now.
1-Take the valve out
2-Remove the brass Powertube Tip with a 3/8" wrench.
3-using the rear field strip screw as a tool, screw it down into the powertube/carrier oring untill it grabs a bit.
4-pull out the carrier assembly and shims if any
5-look on the side of the carrier for any dots or lines. The amount of dots and or lines will determine what size carrier it is. Once we know that I can send you waht you need. I got your email and will reply tonight once I get the info needed here...

Hi tunaman thanks for taking the time to come back to me. Ok so I stripped the bolt as you said this is what I found after taking it apart the carrier appears to have three (3) single dots on it equally spaced around its circumference. The spring as you can see is the silver one and it had two shims in the power tube too

[Systemx]

check your bolt spring as well as your carriers. also what barrel type does it have? level 10's and the twistlock detents sometimes don't get along.

Hi vintage, it has a twist lock type barrel that appears to be stainless steel I have not Seen one like this before I got this marker I guess it was the one supplied with it being an eclipse mag? It's fitted with the metal type detent. And is running the silver (long?) Spring.

[Tunaman]

If there is no line then that is a .5 carrier. You should have for the gun a #0, #.5, #1, #1.5, and a #2. You already have the .5. And I would not recommend using that longest spring either. Reliability suffers so get a red spring. You should also have the gold spring in your parts kit too.

[Systemx]

If there is no line then that is a .5 carrier. You should have for the gun a #0, #.5, #1, #1.5, and a #2. You already have the .5. And I would not recommend using that longest spring either. Reliability suffers so get a red spring. You should also have the gold spring in your parts kit too.

Ok great just so you know I have no spares what's so ever, what you see is what I have! So I guess I need all of the bits you list above!!

[athomas]

You should get a safety for the intelliframe as well.

[Systemx]

You should get a safety for the intelliframe as well.

Ok I see they are cheap enough, aside from the obvious reasons is there any other benefit to refitting a saftey? I only ask this because back in the day we always used to remove them from our cockers that had slide frames due to it giving a smoother trigger pull.

[Gaz]

Not really to do with the problem you are having but, I am also in the uk. Where and when I the old school day happening? Would be a good fun hearing the cockers vs 'mags debate again!

[Systemx]

Not really to do with the problem you are having but, I am also in the uk. Where and when I the old school day happening? Would be a good fun hearing the cockers vs 'mags debate again!

Hi Gaz I have heard talk of it recently, up at Campaign in Cobham surrey. I know the guys pretty well and the do have a semi regular 'pump' only games so I will have to get clarification from them on that. It was mentioned at the last walk on I hear.

In truth I will have a leg on each side of the fence when it comes to the age old Mag Vs Cocker debate as I have four cockers and in all honesty I was always in the cocker camp, that's not to say that I don't have equal respect for the Mags!!!

[Gaz]

I am in the same boat as you, however it's reversed I have always been in the mag camp but appreciate cockers as we'll! I also have a few of each, you will have to let me know a date of when it will be going on as I have a few mates who also have both that would love a day playing with and against them

[Cyco-Dude]

Ok I see they are cheap enough, aside from the obvious reasons is there any other benefit to refitting a saftey? I only ask this because back in the day we always used to remove them from our cockers that had slide frames due to it giving a smoother trigger pull.

there are no issues in having the safety. you will need to remove the trigger though which can be a pain in aluminum frames (you need to press out / tap out the trigger pin). take whatever you know about autocockers and set it aside, as it has no use with automags lol. also, those barrel o-rings are toast man...get some new ones on there, and a new plastic nubbin. the barrel is from check it, if you were wondering.

[Systemx]

there are no issues in having the safety. you will need to remove the trigger though which can be a pain in aluminum frames (you need to press out / tap out the trigger pin). take whatever you know about autocockers and set it aside, as it has no use with automags lol. also, those barrel o-rings are toast man...get some new ones on there, and a new plastic nubbin. the barrel is from check it, if you were wondering.

Ok cool, lol I'll forget my WGP roots then... I figured that the o rings need changing on that barrel and it has a metal type detent. Quick question are those check it barrels any good? And would you happen to know what bore are they are?

[athomas]

Ok I see they are cheap enough, aside from the obvious reasons is there any other benefit to refitting a saftey? I only ask this because back in the day we always used to remove them from our cockers that had slide frames due to it giving a smoother trigger pull.Safety is only a safety on a mag. It doesn't affect the actual trigger pull at all. It does give you a position from which to adjust the trigger rod.

[Cyco-Dude]

Ok cool, lol I'll forget my WGP roots then... I figured that the o rings need changing on that barrel and it has a metal type detent. Quick question are those check it barrels any good? And would you happen to know what bore are they are?

try it out and see. bores for twistlock barrels are typically around .691, from what i've measured. so overbored, but no big deal. automags fire from an open bolt instead of a closed bolt like on an autococker, so the nubbin will keep the ball in place. you don't have to worry so much about it. one option you can do, though, is to get a docs automag to autococker adapter. that way you can make use of your autococker barrels. not necessary, but just an idea...

[Spider-TW]

and a new plastic nubbin. the barrel is from check it, if you were wondering.

Keep the wire detent handy until you are sure the plastic nubbins will work for you. Some of the grooves in the aftermarket barrels don't actually match the layout of the plastic nubbins (AGD spec), and the barrel can be too tight of a fit to let the plastic nubbin hang out of the groove. When all of the nubbins were wire, the groove side-shape didn't really matter, so some barrels just had "similar" grooves. I almost threw away my wire detents, but I have barrels that need them.

[Systemx]

Ok so I got my parts in the mail today from Tuna (thanks again) I have followed the LV10 set up guide and I am using the carrier with 2 lines on it and the gold (short) spring. The marker does not leak down the barrel or otherwise and it does shoot and cycle more quickly than it did previously, however when I try to rapid fire it still 'chuffs' occasionally. It's clearly still not right any ideas anyone?

[Laku]

Ok so I got my parts in the mail today from Tuna (thanks again) I have followed the LV10 set up guide and I am using the carrier with 2 lines on it and the gold (short) spring. The marker does not leak down the barrel or otherwise and it does shoot and cycle more quickly than it did previously, however when I try to rapid fire it still 'chuffs' occasionally. It's clearly still not right any ideas anyone?

Does the bolt return or does it stick?

Chuff could also be just that your trigger discipline is failing and you don't completely pull or release the trigger. Or it could be the lvl 10 preventing chop.

[Systemx]

Ok it's being dry fired but if I was a betting man it sounds like the bolt is still sticking? Do I need to try a different carrier? If so which one?
I took a video of it shooting take a look
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ikdakacqv5npmwz/Video%2006-10-2016%2C%2016%2055%2040.mp4?dl=0

[Laku]

Ok it's being dry fired but if I was a betting man it sounds like the bolt is still sticking? Do I need to try a different carrier? If so which one?

If it sticks then the the bolt won't return. I'd leave the carrier that you are using for now (it's anyway the largest you have). Try it first with paint/reballs and see what it does.

It could also be that your field strip screw is little loose and allows some movement on the valve which then misaligns with the body causing stick. One indication of this is if the bolt unsticks when you push from the back of the valve.

[Systemx]

Ok the bolt is returning as it shoots when you pull the trigger again, I have adjusted the trigger rod leaving a credit cards width between it and the trigger. If that is the largest carrier it's strange as when I used the others earlier on they leaked? I'll put some paint through it and see what happens.

[Laku]

2 lines is 2.0 carrier, And I think that's the largest you ordered from Tuna? From largest to smallest: Dot and line is 1.5, Line is 1.0, dot is 0.5 and nothing is 0.

[Systemx]

Ok thanks for the info on the carriers it's good to know, did you have a chance to look at the video?

[Laku]

Ok thanks for the info on the carriers it's good to know, did you have a chance to look at the video?

Hah, totally missed it when I first read this from my mobile.:tard: But that definitely looks like you're not letting the trigger forward enough, it'll do chuffs when you do that.

[Systemx]

Ok I'll work on it but the trigger just feels a bit clunky, I just figured that the Mag would shoot quicker than it does especially with the inteli frame? I take it all appears ok with the Mag apart from that? Also I cannot seem to get the reactive trigger working? The output pressure of my tank is 850psi which should be enough pressure?

[Laku]

It can shoot very fast if your fingers can keep up. Yeah, everything looks ok as far as I can tell from the video.

RT effect will come in time (at least for most of them it does) as the o-rings break in. Of course this also depends of the flow rate of your tank regulator and its output pressure (should be at least 800 psi ).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMVVCJzYWoQ

[Systemx]

Ok cool, I'll leave it as it is and persevere with it and try to get used to the trigger as it is quite unlike any other marker I own, I do have an amourgeddon air system kicking around with an SCI tank that needs a hydro test as I hear these are good for supplying 900-1000 psi to the valve, in case I can't get the R/T effect with my existing tank.

[athomas]

It sounds like it is starving for air. Make sure the on-off ASA pin is depressing the bottle pin properly. Too much or too little and it will starve the gun. You do need to make sure your finger fully releases the trigger each pull. The retro/X-valve should mostly eliminate that problem though due to the extra return force. Make sure your velocity is turned up far enough.

A bolt that is sticking just a bit could slow down the reset such that the valve doesn't have enough time to recharge before the next shot is attempted. It could be a carrier that is a bit too tight, but that would be rare for a 2.0 carrier to be too tight. You can try another powertube carrier oring and retune the level 10 to see if that is the problem.

Does the body sit down tight against the rail? If the pim on the bottom of the body is bottoming out in the rail, it could cause issues.

Does it have an issue when the gun is cycled with the barrel out? A barrel that isn't centered in the body could have an effect on the ability to cycle quickly. That can be remedied with a couple of wraps of tape to take up some of the slack.

[Systemx]

Hi athomas, I have a lot to check but I have now run out of air so until I refill my tanks on Sunday I'll have to wait. The body appears to be fitted correctly and I'll check it with the barrel removed. Any ideas on why the trigger feels clunky? Could it be an on off issue or a sear rod adjustment?

[athomas]

As long as the trigger is swinging free when the grip frame is by itself it should be fine. The trigger rod should be adjusted so that there is a tiny gap between the front of the rod and the back of the trigger when the trigger is held against the safety with the gun aired up. The grip frame may feel clunky if you are getting bolt stick. The bolt stick prevents the trigger rod from pushing forward right away.