How to shim shp with classic RT

[stircrazzzy]

Hey guys, I'd like to make my RT bounce. Can someone advise how to shim my shp reg for this?

Thanks!


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[Nobody]

Dont shim your reg. It's not needed. Slowly andsurely, shorten the on/off pin (use a set of digital calipers). My 800psi regs like bout .720 but find a good length for your needs.

[Spider-TW]

An SHP with no shims should be around 950 already, right? That is a fair bounce rate once it gets going. I found my RT to be a little more difficult to bounce, like a brand new x-valve. I think a lot of the old RTs didn't get a lot of play time (mine was an early rail leaker), and they haven't been worn in well. They are also finicky about the position (number of turns) of the banjo bolt, probably due to the coarser threads. Mark the head with a marker or nail polish to keep track of it, at least to the quarter turn. There's 0.040" or so per turn there and you're talking about shaving 0.030".

Before you shorten the on/off pin, make sure the three pivot points in the trigger and sear linkage move well (trigger pin, sear pin, clevis pin). Polish and lube where needed. Also, polish off the stamping marks on the surface of the sear where the on/off pin rides, so that it is nice and smooth. That doesn't take much off that surface, but it can count for about 0.003-0.005". Polish the pin tip as well. I try to play or shoot at least two or three HPA bottles through a valve that isn't kicking already at 950, to make sure the o-rings are set in and moving as best they can.

If it hasn't started kicking after that, start shaving and testing. Sometimes the testing wears it in. I haven't had to shave an RT valve pin yet. I have shaved them for classic valves for flow reasons and have no problem with the practice, but my best bouncer still has a 0.750 pin. When you get everything very well worn in, you can bounce a ULT (not in a classic RT), which is actually shorter but also very light on the kick.

On your original question though, I think there is a ninja video on their website on changing shims (better than my typing and memory). Mine only came with what was in it for 1100 (one red and one plain?). That was a bit much, and I took out the shims pretty quickly.

[blackdeath1k]

An shp without any shims is roughly 850 not 950.

[rawbutter]

Double triggers help too. You can get a single trigger to bounce, but it's harder to lean the sweet spot.

[Spider-TW]

An shp without any shims is roughly 850 not 950.

Mine is a few years old, from the AGD label run. It is 950 w/o shims, but I know they made some changes. Which vintage are you thinking of? I still have a superlight bottle on my list; if an SHP goes down to 850 now, that would be nice. I doubt it would save me a bottle though. :)

[blackdeath1k]

Mine is a few years old, from the AGD label run. It is 950 w/o shims, but I know they made some changes. Which vintage are you thinking of? I still have a superlight bottle on my list; if an SHP goes down to 850 now, that would be nice. I doubt it would save me a bottle though. :)

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?271370-ninja-V2-SHP-output-pressures
That thread has all the info based off LP gauge readings. I actually think the paperwork said 950-1200 but based off gauge readings no shims is roughly 850 psi. The regs I was using at the time of that post were less than a year old. I don't know how old the regs were that others used.

A shp from the factory comes at its max recommended output. Removing the shims will lower the pressure. Unless you bought a reg used that has already had the shims removed.

As far as major reactivity with a classic rt. Mine is bone stock original other than the trigger frame and cut down power feed. It was almost uncontrollable with a 1200psi input from my old nitroduck megareg setup. 1000-1100 was functional. Currently its fed with 1 shim on a shp which gives right at a 950 output pressure. Very controllable. The on off pin in my marker currently is and has always been the one 0.744 pin that's been in it since the 90s.

[Spider-TW]

The on off pin in my marker currently is and has always been the one 0.744 pin that's been in it since the 90s. I forgot that one was stocked a little short in the first place. I've been running a replacement 0.750 in that one and it is a bit tight.

i think the ninja shims are repeatable, but not exact to start with. I've gauged mine on a few different setups; defintely a V1 as well.

[blackdeath1k]

I forgot that one was stocked a little short in the first place. I've been running a replacement 0.750 in that one and it is a bit tight.

i think the ninja shims are repeatable, but not exact to start with. I've gauged mine on a few different setups; defintely a V1 as well.

For clarification the shps that I have are all V2. Yup. The pin in my normal classic rt is 0.744��

[Spider-TW]

One other thing about RTs, try to set the banjo bolt so that the ports line up with the rail ports (perpendicular to the rail). It helps push the recharge rate and is another reason to mark the head of the banjo bolt.

[stircrazzzy]

Thanks for all the help here guys. I admit, I'm a bit reluctant to mod the RT - the SHPs are available new. Is there some reason shortening the on/off pin is a better option?

I'm inclined to go the blackdeath1k route - one extra shim in the SHP to get 950psi from the reg and take it from there. @blackdeath1k - where can I snag one of these? And is this job easy enough to do at home with limited tooling?

Thanks! And fwiw, already have a double trigger. I'm pretty excited about rocking the RT next time I'm at the field!

[Nobody]

Shortening the pin means you do not have to have a dedicated tank for that gun. If you shoot multiple guns, you can use 1 tank for all versus 1 tank for the RT and 1 tank for anything else.

You can also tailor the RT effect for your needs. A SHP tank will give you the effect but at 1 rate (the "stock" rate of the SHP reg to the gun). But by shortening the pin, you can have it at a little or a lot or somewhere in the middle. You are modding it to suit your needs.

[Laku]

And if you want to, you can buy on off pins in different sizes from tuna.

[Spider-TW]

Thanks! And fwiw, already have a double trigger. I'm pretty excited about rocking the RT next time I'm at the field!

Lol, if your double frame is a benchmark, that may be your bigger problem with RT. That scallop on the back of the trigger makes it a long trigger pull with a light kick.

[blackdeath1k]

I did nothing fancy. I bought a new shp v2 reg. Put it on my old Carlton bottle. I removed 2 of the 3 shims to drop the output Down to 950 and called it a day. The shp regs from the factory come set in there max intended output. You have to remove the shims to lower the output.

And I would have to agree that I'm not a fan of the sloppy triggers on benchmark frames.

[stircrazzzy]

It's a standard RT classic frame with the trigger guard removed and a double trigger fitted. Ok, so I'll probably air up the tank, get a file, and mess with the pin. Thanks for the help everyone!


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[captian pinky]

It's a standard RT classic frame with the trigger guard removed and a double trigger fitted. Ok, so I'll probably air up the tank, get a file, and mess with the pin. Thanks for the help everyone!


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make sure you have a set of calipers. and honestly sand paper does just fine and it removes the metal slower.

[blackdeath1k]

My wifes first minimag that I bought "functioning" had a rt on off in the classic valve. Pin was to long to function. I used a fine nail file to slowly buff the pin. And my digicalipers to check until it got to the proper length.

[Spider-TW]

The online store used to have a 0.765 pin listed. I've always wondered what that one was for.

[Spider-TW]

For clarification the shps that I have are all V2. Yup. The pin in my normal classic rt is 0.744��

I pulled my on/off out last night and shortened the pin to 0.740 (from .751). I also replaced the o-rings as they were very old and stiff, especially the little inside o-ring. The pin didn't even want to move when I was taking it apart. It was well oiled too. It feels much more like my x-valve mags now. I forget how old and grumpy those o-rings get without leaking.

[luke]

I pulled my on/off out last night and shortened the pin to 0.740 (from .751). I also replaced the o-rings as they were very old and stiff, especially the little inside o-ring. The pin didn't even want to move when I was taking it apart. It was well oiled too. It feels much more like my x-valve mags now. I forget how old and grumpy those o-rings get without leaking.

Old o-rings definitely affect the high end of performance of the valve, that's a fact. The .751" pin doesn't help either. ;)

[Spider-TW]

Old o-rings definitely affect the high end of performance of the valve, that's a fact. The .751" pin doesn't help either. ;)

Yes, I didn't mean to discount the pin length. The pull had been both too long and too draggy. I had gotten used to it, but when I got it back together and pulled the trigger, it was instant comfort. Bounce, single shot, bounce, single shot.

I also adjusted my ULT shims on my classic experiment and added some porting. It's looking preetty goood. I'll be ready with lots of mags for the spring big game.

[luke]

I was actually concurring with you on both points. :)

[Mondoatx]

Hey guys,

I think someone mentioned this above but the output pressure of the SHP may vary depending on the design/year of the reg.

I just bought one from my local field brand new 5-6 months ago and according the literature it was set at 1250 PSI output... I tested it... and sure enough... the output was 1250 PSI.

If i recall correclty you can either add or remove shims (i forget which) to get it down to 950... but out of the box it was set at 1250.

Makes the gun RT uncontrollably... lotsa fun ;-)

[blackdeath1k]

Hey guys,

I think someone mentioned this above but the output pressure of the SHP may vary depending on the design/year of the reg.

I just bought one from my local field brand new 5-6 months ago and according the literature it was set at 1250 PSI output... I tested it... and sure enough... the output was 1250 PSI.

If i recall correclty you can either add or remove shims (i forget which) to get it down to 950... but out of the box it was set at 1250.

Makes the gun RT uncontrollably... lotsa fun ;-)

Is yours a shp V2 or V1 reg? I'm curious because all mine are V2 and have a max output lower than the indicated 1250.

[Mondoatx]

blackdeath1k,

Sorry bud... was out of town...

It is a "PRO V2" series...

I had an email conversation with a rep there when the 1250 figure was thrown out... specifically in reference to RTing mags... but I can't find the email...

I checked the manual on their site and it says it is pre set at 1100 lbs... adjustable down to 950...

When I checked it it was several months ago and now I am questioning myself... tell you what... I will be at the field this wknd... I will check it again and let you guys know it is set at.

M

[Spider-TW]

The typical little gauges are really +/-10%, so it is possible you saw 1250. Try to get "second opinions" on those, from a better gauge if it matters. Shims aren't perfect either.

[BigEvil]

GUYS please stop using the SHP ****. Run 850.

[blackdeath1k]

blackdeath1k,

Sorry bud... was out of town...

It is a "PRO V2" series...

I had an email conversation with a rep there when the 1250 figure was thrown out... specifically in reference to RTing mags... but I can't find the email...

I checked the manual on their site and it says it is pre set at 1100 lbs... adjustable down to 950...

When I checked it it was several months ago and now I am questioning myself... tell you what... I will be at the field this wknd... I will check it again and let you guys know it is set at.

M

Ha-ha. I wasn't that concerned with the difference in values. Especially considering how inaccurate them little gauges are when new. Let alone old. I was more curious if the V1 regs really were consistently 1200psi or if they were closer to 1100 as well.

Big E. To be honest pressure is irrelevant to me currently. At this point I haven't had my RT together for almost a year. It's missing a trigger frame. Ive Been using my Geo3 due to weight difference.

[Nobody]

GUYS please stop using the SHP ****. Run 850.

You mean remove any potential problems with over pressurizing the valve and just modify other parts to achieve the same outcome? Pffffft....

[Mondoatx]

blackdeath1k,

Sorry bud... was out of town...

It is a "PRO V2" series...

I had an email conversation with a rep there when the 1250 figure was thrown out... specifically in reference to RTing mags... but I can't find the email...

I checked the manual on their site and it says it is pre set at 1100 lbs... adjustable down to 950...

When I checked it it was several months ago and now I am questioning myself... tell you what... I will be at the field this wknd... I will check it again and let you guys know it is set at.

M

Was at the field this morning and checked it... it was betw 1100-1150 (tough to tell because the gauge had an odd number of lines between every clearly marked increment... so 1100 seems to be correct...

[Mondoatx]

Nobody (and BigEvil)... Got the SHP before I did much research... and it achieved the desired outcome... but from what I gather now you can achieve the same RT effect by shortening your on off pin? Am I understanding that correctly? Anything else need to be done?

Can you buy them already shortened... or do you need some calipers or something to measure periodically as you grind it down? Would make life a lot easier if I could just go back to 800 PSI regs on both bottles since I have more than 1 gun...

LMK.

M

[blackdeath1k]

Nobody (and BigEvil)... Got the SHP before I did much research... and it achieved the desired outcome... but from what I gather now you can achieve the same RT effect by shortening your on off pin? Am I understanding that correctly? Anything else need to be done?

Can you buy them already shortened... or do you need some calipers or something to measure periodically as you grind it down? Would make life a lot easier if I could just go back to 800 PSI regs on both bottles since I have more than 1 gun...

LMK.

M

0.744 makes for good reactivity with my old RT and a tank with 950psi output. It is reactive but VERY controllable with a 850psi tank.

[Nobody]

Nobody (and BigEvil)... Got the SHP before I did much research... and it achieved the desired outcome... but from what I gather now you can achieve the same RT effect by shortening your on off pin? Am I understanding that correctly? Anything else need to be done?

Can you buy them already shortened... or do you need some calipers or something to measure periodically as you grind it down? Would make life a lot easier if I could just go back to 800 PSI regs on both bottles since I have more than 1 gun...

LMK.

M

Yup, shorten the on/off pin (small increments, checking often) and test with your most used tank. You are basically dialing in the gun to a particular tank.

Also, you check the lengths because each valve is going to be different.what a .740 pin is good for this person, might not work for you. With my tanks and Xvalves, a .720 pin works fantastic. So check often, go in .005 increments and test often.