Wireless Intellifeed

[davej946]

Alright guys...
My latest project involves intellifeeding my iFrame and Revvy, without wires. However, I need some help, as I am no expert in electronics. Here is my thought, in a two part plan (Gun and Revvy)

Items Acquired:
The important parts are listed below, I'm sure this would require additional electronic components, but again, I am no electronics genius.

1x (each) Radioshack UHF Transmitter/Receiver (http://www.radioshack.com/category.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F010%5F016%5F001%5F000&Page=1)
1x Roller Switch (http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F010%5F007%5F007%5F000&product%5Fid=275%2D017)

1x CR2032 BAttery and PCB Mount (http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F005%5F007%5F012%5F000&product%5Fid=910%2D3073)

Associated Mounting screws etc...


Part 1 - The Transmitter (Grip Frame)
1. Mount the roller switch in the iFrame, as usual.
2. Wire up the rollerswitch between the CR2032 battery and the transmitter. (In the research I've done thus far, the transitter only broadcasts when a signal is present. The idea is to have the battery power be our "signal" causing the transmitter to send a message when the switch is closed)

Part 2 - The Receiver (Revvy)
1. Wire the receiver into the Revvy in such a way that when it receives a signal from the transmitter, it signals the Revvy to spin by applying a current to the circuit board. (Similar to the traditional Intellifeed system)

My idea is based entirely on theory, as I have no experience with electronics in this fashion. The transmitter is designed to run on a wide range of voltages, I chose the CR2032 for two reasons, the first of which being it's commonality, the second being it's relatively low voltage. Thus if a 3-man team all has wireless iFeed, when Player A fires his marker, he doesn't cause Player B's revvy to spin acroos the field :D

If anyone would be interested in helping with this project, I will provide some links I have found onthe net concerning the UHF Tx/Rx that Radi0shack sells.

Links:
Wireless Communication (Using this RX/TX pair) (http://www.nomad.ee/micros/xmit433.html)

RF Transmitter/Receiver (http://www.megatronics.lk/products/remotes/xx433.htm)
Wireless RF Link (http://www.ramseyelectronics.com/sitepages/pdf/hmanuals/rx-433.pdf)
433mhz Receiver Module (http://www.qkits.com/serv/qkits/velleman/pages/rx433.asp)

For more Info do a search at Google for "RX433" and "TX433" (Receiver and Transmitter respectively)

Accoring to various online sources that response time between the Tx and the Rx is short enough to make this a viable iFeed option.

I will be working on this extensively next week (Spring Break) so any help would be GREATLY appreciated. I'm just trying to give back to the loyal AO'ers that have been so helpful to me!

If this belongs in Tech, sorry. I thought it a wonderful Deep Blue topic.

Later ~

[Thordic]

I'm not sure how it would work in a revvy, but I think you have a great idea here for a warp feed intellifeed. I may just have to give this a try for my warp :)

If this becomes a common thing, are people going to rig a transmitter up to a lantern battery and make everyone on the fields revvys go crazy all at once? :)

[sniper1rfa]

you could solve that problem super easy, just use different frequency crystals.

[Redkey]

For about 10 dollars worth of parts I put together a little circuit with a microphone. Everytime the gun goes pop the circuit kicks out 5v to the proper transistor on the loader control board.

The duration of the signal is controlled by resistors as is the sensitivity of the microphone.

I know little, if anything, about electronics... I just bought a voice activated circuit and assmebled it. It's small, about the size of a match book.

Only time it acts funny is if there is a guy right next to you firing.

I'm still working on the best way to put it *inside* the loader. The nice thing about it is that it is stand alone and can be moved from gun to gun.

I'm sure someone has done this before...

[DJSOLID]

Just a thought: how about using infared like a TV remote? This WOULD be a cool thing, radio waves or infared, whatever. I'll definently follow this thread - if you guys figure anything out - put up the info.

[davej946]

how about using infared like a TV remote

Good thought, but a little tougher to impliment. There is a relative line-of-sight issue with IR. If the IR transmitter on the gun got misaligned with the receiver on the loader (ie the Revvy rotates slightly, as they are known to do) then that whole thing is rendered useless.

Keep the ideas/comments coming... :D

[AGD]

I am interested in this thread, please do updates on your progress. Does the receiver have digital outputs?

AGD

[DJSOLID]

Most recievers that would be aimed at radio control hobbyists do not have digital outs. They are a nominal switching voltage out, i.e. to control servos and rheostats for speed control and the like. There would have to be an AD/DA (analog to digital/digital to analog) converter to make a digital signal, since the radio wave in and of itself is basically analog. All infared sensors and senders and their respective controlling chipsets are digital. I'm not sure if that's a setback or a boon, but they would certainly be lighter and smaller than radio gear. There would be line of sight problems to deal with, yes, but the problems would not be alot more difficult to overcome than the problems associated with radio transmission such as small motor interference and overlapping carrier frequencies between players.

[DiRTyBuNNy]

well..i don't want to get a little over everyone's head...but what about bluetooth...they can make bluetooth transmitters really really tiny..i don't think anyone here is a bluetooth engineer..but if anybody knows one we can really get this suckers started...

[Tufiremn]

I have been toying with this idea for a while too. I know RadioShack has small IR LEDs, and small IR recievers. I'll try to get by there on Monday and see what I can did up. should be able to do the whole thing for less than $20.

Something else to think of is to replace the roller switch with a hall effect sensor. Tom, there's an idea for a 2nd gen. intelliframe. Since you already have the parts, and I bet the CAD/CNC program for the emag frame could be tweaked just enough to make this doable.

[Vegeta]

NOOOOOO! I HAD IT ALL TYPED OUT! THEN I HIT HTE BACK BUTTON< THEN I HIT HTE FORWARD AND IT REFRESHED! man that was 15 minutes of work. anyways.. you dont need a 433mhz crytal to transmit 5 inches. i will draw a diagram using hte parts listed below to hsow you how to make all of htis for under 20$. tom, pay attention (lol)

-Old RC car from raioshack, the kind that has no steering servos, that steers to the right when you reverse (10$)
-Roller switch
-9v batter connectors
-relay (5v+/- will do)

ok i am really ticked off that i lost all that text so i will shorten my explanation. ask me to clarify if you dont understand.
Cut wires from the 'gas pedal' from the transmitter. take out board and attack old wires from switch to the roller swith on frame. run thsoe wires out your intelli onto your tank. place board under your neopreeme cover or soemting. attach the 9V to the board.

Now crack open the car. take out board and motor. if its the cheap kind liek i told u to get, it has no steerign server, so no need to worry about cuttign those wires. cut the wires off at the motor. connect these wires to your relay switch, and connect some small wires from the other side of relay to the correct spots on the revvy board. cennect hte receiver board to a battery. mount it all on your revvy, either by duct tape or buy usign a "Project Box" from radio shack.


Now i assume, you could try to fit the transmiter board IN the intelli and that would work too. depends on dimensions of it. The battery and board both wont fit in the grip though.

I applogize for the crappy pic. im poed about my text dissapearing. that mgiht give you a bit of reference.

[Vegeta]

OPh and thsoe old RC cars run off of two frequencies mainly. soem are 27 mhz and some 49. very common. If your paintball park is next to a R/C racetrack, i wouldn't use this beacue it would make paint salad out of your hopper full. lol.

The 27mhz and the 49mhz, with hte stock antenna.. get about 30 yards of good range on a full battery. and wiht it being 5 inches you would haev zero problems. i dont think it would matter, but an on/off switch coming off onw of hte battery leads on both batteries would make sure no amperage is being drawn when not in use. that probably wouldn't happen but extra switches make it look cooler lol.

[Kaiser Bob]

Just a side note, but can someone break out the NPPL rule book? Does it say ALL radio transmitting devices are illegal or radio devices used for the intent of communication?

[davej946]

Vegeta:
I am going for a self-contained style Wireless iFeed, trying to keep it within the iFrame, great idea though. Might have to retreat back to that kind of simplicity if I can't get it all to work out...

Bob:
To be honest, I'm not real worried about the NPPL. I have no Tourney experience (although I wouldn't mind getting some ;) ) so the whole NPPL isn't a factor for me.

Everyone:
If there is anyone out there with electronics knowledge, I am having trouble getting this setup to work, as I'm not sure what pins to use, and which ones to ignore. (Multiple Vcc and GND's, as well as digital vs linear outputs on the receiver).

Thanks,

[meanelvis]

i know this is looking way into the future, but production models of this feature should have a randomized channels as in cordless phones. this way opposing teams cant use "ECM" and make "paint salad in your hopper full" (nice quote Vegeta ;) )

[Redkey]

I say again.... why use a RF or an optical signal to link the gun to the hopper? Both are fairly complex and require some modification to the gun.

Putting a circuit on the hopper that "hears" the gun fire is very simple, requires no gun modification, doesn't have the alignment issues an IR optical system could have, won't suffer from interference from a RC race track and can be moved from gun to gun without any problems.

The sensitivity of the microphone is controlled with a resistor. The duration of the signal to turn the hopper on is also controlled with a resistor, meaning the hopper can be set to run for anywhere from 0 to 10 seconds or more whenever you shoot the gun.

I realize it's not as glamorous as having a bluetooth enabled gun and hopper, but it sure is alot easier to do.

Besides, as I said before, I know nothing about electronics but was able to do this myself.

Sorry for repeating this post.

[teamfuya]

I've been working on a couple different versions of "iFeed" systems. One is based on warp feed use. It uses IR to send a beam to the warp and tell it what to do. The ir is fixed in the hole of the intelliframe (this is only a warp on left side version for now). The other version is a RF system. In which the rf sends a warp, revo or halo the go ahead. They both can take any switch interface and also have a selectable dwell time. The rf version has a 14 dip switch code so no one else on the field can screw with your system. Both the IR and RF systems have been engineered to run on a low amount of power and have timed power circuits. The timed power circuits only keep the board "hot" for a set time saving power. They both use a rechargeable battery system. Both circuit boards are designed to fit in side the grip of an intelliframe. Working on warp/revo boards to fit in side as well (no external "please hit me" parts) Also working on a High sensitivity board that does not use the conventional rocker switch but uses vibration. I've pushed the IR board to the back burner and pulled the RF forward. The RF has a lot of features that i'm trying to cram into a small space. I should have some working prototypes soon. I'll keep you all informed on progress.

[kutter]

Just on a side note about the IR, my mountain bike has a cordless IR computer on it. I do not think that alignment will be as much of problem as folks think since the beam, either intentionally or just because it does, spreads some. I suspect it is intentional for just that reason.

I confess I have no idea how much it will cost.

I am curious about this thread but subscribe more to the KISS principle. As sexy and kewl as it seems, it is another thing to go wrong at the worst possible moment, like that never happens.:eek:

[314159]

screw the 14 pin dip for the signal and the electronics that go with it.

the polar heart monotors do not have a unique id. they have a working distance of 3 feet. this is how a team of runners can be using them at the same time without interferance.

depending on what you want to do, this could easaly start to cost a lot of money.

most smaller transmitters have small filters, so if you are ever by a radio station, power line, anything that generates a powerful signal. you could have problems.

there is not much room to stick circuitry into a revolution except for the ball area. and not much room for it in the warp (about the size of a 9v). if you mount it on the outside, you will have to shield it from the impact of a paintball.

if you get some spray over you ir reciever or transmiter, then your out of luck.

whats wrong with a couple wires?

KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) is what my electronics teacher used to say.

[Vegeta]

OK i have thought this over for an HOUR now. IR is just a bad idea. for one it requires a clear line of sight which will be hard. even if you mounted an the IR LED on the top of your mag body, if your hopper got twisted in game of during a paint relaod, your screwed. IR electronics are extremely simple though.. too bad.

RF is not that great of an idea either. too big and if you are next to a guy with the same intelliRF , you will be getting interference. And again its bulky... olny expensive transmiters are small and we dant want that. You COULD power the transmitter off 2 1.5 volt hearing aid / calculator batteries, but again, low amps (which isnt a big problem with RF) and short life. I think i could amke a board WITH 2 hearing aid batteries on it small enough to fit in the grip frame though. it is possible.. and its possible cheap if you do it right. If i only had the right equipment I could do it tonight.

Buildign in a microphone to detect the sound of you gun would have some bad consequenses. Yes, its simple, but unless you put in somehting to filter out all non-marker nopises it wont work that great. I yell ALOT in a game. I liek to intimidate the otehr team. and sometimes i have people shooting next to me. Yes, the hopper spinning unnessesarily wont cuase that many problems but I dont like it

THE FOURTH OPTION:

Of, this is a good one. We bouild a SMALL, simple circuit, that is powered by a RECHARGEABLE nicid battery like the one in your computer taht keeps your clock settigns while its off. They are small and make them the size of roughly two stacked hearing aid batteries. We make the circuit produce a HIGH PITCHED, several thousand megahert picth. Hook this to a small speakeer, like that from a in-ear-headphone set. This would pbe placed facing out the side of the grip NEAR THE SAFTEY, so your hand doesn't cover it. No you wont be able to hear the tone normally. Possible if you are really close to it, but it will eb so high pitched it should be out of human range. Now on the hopper we mount a small circuit with a mic. the mic picks up the tone, and runs it through a SIMPLE IC circuit that filters out all but the certain tone's mhz. this can be done easily. now when it hears this sound, it transmits a small voltages signal to a small relay, which turns on the hopper for hte time that the sound is on. NOW.. for interference between two or more of htese grip frames... you are prolly saying 'but what if that guy next to me has one too!' well// i say we control the tone of the sound with two sets of dip switches. all you have to do is make sure that the dip selector switched in your frame are the smae of that on your hopper....


hows that? I can still do the RF idea easy.. its actualyl pretty simple, I haev the tools for it, btu I dotn haev an intelliframe or a revvy to expiriment on. I have used RF applicatiojns like these on OTHER things though. Mainly making scramblers for radios and such but it all applies to something as simple as this.

[teamfuya]

One of the number one problems with IR besides line of sight is the sun light factor. Sunlight also contains Infrared light thus interfering with the receiver. This is the same problem that the older clear shell revos had and they had no way to block the incoming stray ir light from the sun. You can filter it but the distance is reduced. It also screws with the timing. You need something that can handle 15+ bps or (clicks per second)

Now with the security codes for rf. There two good reasons to have this. First, all the players on the field could have the same rf system running but all on different codes. All your neighbors have automatic garage doors but your controller doesn't open there's, same here. Second, you can have multiple guns with the rf system and only use the one hopper set to the same security code as your guns. This saves money and time because you don't have to match up crystals you just set the same code.

As of now i'm working on a rf system that has the capability of 4 triggers (switches) to control different things. There is only need for 1 trigger right now but the circuitry can handle more for future items. The size is my main design limitation, trying to make it as small as possible and run for as long as possible on certain batteries.

Like i said in an above post i should have some working prototypes soon that me and my team members will be testing.

[Aranarth]

On Wicked Air Sports Page:
Gatekeeper(sm) project scrapped due to WDP patent

Wicked Air Sportz has terminated the Gatekeeper(sm) project for the LCD Angel. This is due to WDP obtaining a patent for infrared communications with a marker having an LCD display. Wicked Air Sportz will not license this technology from WDP. Instead, we have changed our patent application to reflect WDP's granted patent, and will no longer support the WDP product line. We will have infrared as well as wireless communication protocols for other devices in the near future.
---
Wonder what other ir stuff is already patented. If this is a marketable thing, needs to be looked into. I think the way to go is rf though.
-AranarthX

[Conqueror]

What about vibration sensors? That's how Sandridge runs their wireless intellifeeds. It takes a bit of know-how (which I don't have) to keep it from picking up extraneous vibrations, but from what I've heard the Sandy W.I.F. works extremely well.

CQ

[Exodus]

go here for any parts that you need. they have some cool stuff if you just want to look. www.allelectronics.com

[ShooterJM]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Conqueror
[B]What about vibration sensors? That's how Sandridge runs their wireless intellifeeds. It takes a bit of know-how (which I don't have) to keep it from picking up extraneous vibrations, but from what I've heard the Sandy W.I.F. works extremely well.

Yeah, I've tried it for awhile now. Pirated a few old car alarms for parts. Haven't gotten a viable product out of it. Either too many false reads or not enough sensitivity. Nothing's saying I did it right though.

[davej946]

Well, I have to say that I am astounded by the talk that my idea has generated, which is why it's so hard to tell everyone this...

I am officially abandoning this project. I came into some spendable cash, so I am buying a Warp. Problem Solved! Anyway, if someone can help me out with finishing this up, I will be happy to complete this, and post the plans, pictures, and what not on the RF version. Let me know.

Otherwise, to all those without, BUY A WARP! :D
(Tom smiles @ me while wearing his marketing hat)

Later ~

[Vegeta]

Even if something like its patented, AGD is the only ppl to have a patent on the Intelliframe and so they can modify it with whatever they need.

[Smiles2480]

Hey when I saw this it go me thinking. The transmiter from a keyless entry for a car is not to large and they use a lot of diffent frequences. Another thing is that most of them only work at a short range, at most 30 feet. who nows how much space is need for the reciver. I am hopping that it is not much. it could be one thing eather that can be intergrated into the board for the emag and a seperate new borad for the 12v rev. That is something that i would like to work on in getting it going. I wish I could barrow the keu fort he patten office to get a borad made to do that.

[Vegeta]

Good idea smiles. I'll work on that for a bit.

(I can see it now - the first wireless intellifram test.. during a game, on every trigger pull, everyone's doors lock / car alarms go off on all the cars in the parking lot.)

[The Mafia]

Try www.jameco.com as an alternate source for your RF reciever/transmitter. They have an incredible selection of every electronic component known to man. They're website kinda sucks though, so it's better to request that they mail you a catalog.

[MikeCouves]

Originally posted by Vegeta
Good idea smiles. I'll work on that for a bit.

(I can see it now - the first wireless intellifram test.. during a game, on every trigger pull, everyone's doors lock / car alarms go off on all the cars in the parking lot.)

HAHAHAHA. That is the funniest thing I have ever heard!

Anyways guys, this is looking interesting, I will be following this as well.

[SPOOKI]

Hmmm... interesting idea... I'm afraid that I can't offer you much help on how to rig that up but good luck to ya just the same! Keep us posted... I'm interested in seeing the results...

[keiphers]

Has anyone gotten this to work yet? I'm too lazy to read through the whole thread.

[314159]

i just had a crazy though, back to the early days of the wireless controller. after the flash light remotes that you would hit the corner of your tv with. they had thiese clicker remotes. the clicker would make a click in a unique tone for each button pressed.

why not mount a clicker that can be clicked by the movement of the trigger rod, and have circuitry in the hopper to pick up on the click.

you won't have to worry about encoding, electronics/power in the transmitter. and the reciver can run off of the power in the revvy/warp/whatever. you won't have to worry about picking up a teamates equipment if you have the reciever sensitive enough to pick up the tone of the click within about 2 feet.

[Vegeta]

I mentioned that idea earlier, check up a few posts.

[314159]

the circuit is not sensing the normal sound of the gun, nor is an electronic circuit generating the specific tone.

this would be a non electrical device in the battery, that would make a click when trigger is pulled at a certain tone (much to the effect of a tuning fork). and like your post above, the loader would pick up this pitch as an input to start spinning the paddle.

this clicker remote was popular in it's time and worked very well. and the beauty of it all, NO BATTERY IN THE GRIP.

[keiphers]

Anyone gotten this to work yet?

[ShooterJM]

Originally posted by keiphers
Anyone gotten this to work yet?

Mines on hold. Have to finish some other projects first.