What makes the Autococker such a Great Gun?

[HyperSnyper]

Hello all,

I was just holding my bro's Cocker, dry firing it around the house, then it really made me wonder...

What quality's make the Auctococker such a great gun?

When we both have time to play, it seems like a good gun on the field. Its used by many pro players. In terms of recoil, I can see why its better than the average blowback.

But what else? I have asked my local store owners and even alot of online store owners. They all told me the Cocker will always be a tourney level gun because it is one of the most consistent guns and shoot flatter than all other guns.

But I have also seen Mags, Spyders, Impulses, even GT 2000's get a +/- 1 or 2 at times. The closed bolt vs open bolt myth has been dispelled. And many guns have been tuned to be more consistent than the Cocker. The LP myth has been dispelled as well.

So what about the Cocker makes it a good gun. I am in NO WAY dissing Cockers, I just want to know the hard cold fact evidence what makes it good. He may plan to sell the Cocker for a cheap Electro instead.

Let me know all.

-Hyper

P.S. I know this is a Mag forum, and I should actually be asking in the Cocker forum, but if I did post there, I would get biased answers, and they would just repeat the false qualities like LP and closed bolt. I find this forum to be very reliable and true with their answers. Thx in advance guys.

[MrAirgunRT]

And here you expect not to get mag-biased answers?

[Spaceman613]

They can be made extremely efficient, and they are very customizable. A person can make their cocker very personal thru anno, milling, and pneumatics. Some other guns dont have that quality.

As for flatter? thats BS

They will remain a tourney gun as long as Bud sponsors teams.

And Yes I shoot cockers, but I had to pay for mine. I also shoot Plamer guns and old sheridans, and a phantom....

[cphilip]

GGTF!

Otherwise known as "Gadget Geek Thrill Factor". Cool wizbang moving stuff. Hypmo-tizin wizzing moving wonders. Can be made to look cool with lots of colors and milling and they just beg to be messed with. When they work they are great. Leave em alone and they work until they wear out of tolerance. Then you get to mess with em some more. Pretty nice markers for the type of personality they encourage.

[Cha0tic]

the moving back blocks hypnotize me....until it smacks me in the mask b/c i don't have a beavertail...

[FeelTheRT]

it's because of customability. Since there are so many parts on the cocker, there are so many different brand of parts you can get. You can get certain parts for a very fast Autococker. You can get correct parts for a super accurate Cocker, ect.

Autocockers tend to be very consistant over the chrono and since it is a closed bolt, its easier to shoot more accurate because of the very little kick. Also it almost never breaks balls down the barrel due to it being closed bolt, so it's not a little bolt pounding it into the barrel before being fired.

With correct LP setup, the gun is extreamly gas efficant and unable to chop balls.

[PBpunk]

ready for the real reason? the back block moves. you can hipnotize opponents with it then shoot em in the googles. "i cant help it its so beautiful.....wack!
its suppose to be a secret so do tell

and another reason is some good players (who like to mess with their markers) have them (cause they are customizable) and then every one wants one cause they saw a pro with one. the reason i really like mine cause i love to take it apart make all the pieces shiny then grease em up and put em back and its more fun doing that on an cocker then most other guns. also i like it cause you can adjust every aspect of the whole operation of the marker. that IMO is why its a good gun not cause it shoots better, because it doesnt. but what other gun has a little thing on the back that moves back and forth.

[HyperSnyper]

Originally posted by MrAirgunRT
And here you expect not to get mag-biased answers?

I dont expect to get Mag biased answers, I did not ask "Whats batter? Cocker or Mag?" No, I asked what the good qualities of the Cocker are.

And I dont expect Mag biased answers. Compare the answers on this forum vs other Cocker biased forums on the Cocker vs Mag debate. Over here they say both guns are good, its a matter of preference. This forum gives true fact on both guns, and are not biased. Heck, there are even Cocker owners and other non-Mag owners who post here regularly.

-Hyper

[Ityl]

tinkering and customization...and rumors "myths", people still think some guns shoot "harder" than others.

[HyperSnyper]

Originally posted by FeelTheRT
it's because of customability. Since there are so many parts on the cocker, there are so many different brand of parts you can get. You can get certain parts for a very fast Autococker. You can get correct parts for a super accurate Cocker, ect.

Autocockers tend to be very consistant over the chrono and since it is a closed bolt, its easier to shoot more accurate because of the very little kick. Also it almost never breaks balls down the barrel due to it being closed bolt, so it's not a little bolt pounding it into the barrel before being fired.

With correct LP setup, the gun is extreamly gas efficant and unable to chop balls.

I beleive you on the gas effieciency part of the Cocker. My brother gets an insane amount of shots off even a 20 oz tank vs my 68/3K. However, I dont agree with the closed bolt giving it better accuarcy.

I d believe that many ppl get the Cocker many because of the hype. It a great performing gun, but many people will get it because many experienced players get it, many pros get it, so the consumer will get it. Now since that consumer has bought it, it will add to the cocker population making others want to buy it.

Exponential growth due to hype.

I do beleive that there is very little kick in the gun. but then again, electros have little kick also.

Any other qualities?

Feel. You traded your Mag for a Cocker, what were your reasons?

-Hyper

[pumpamatic]

The one thing I will always like over a classic mag about the cocker is how you can make a short, smooth trigger pull.
I've never owned one but that's the one reason I might. Other than that I'll keep my classic, I have yet to try a retro.

[liigod]

cockers have awesome trigger pulls, not much kick, can be set up so they can not chop a ball. Stock chop way less than a mag if u know how to pull the trigger. They are well balenced. There are a million upgrades you can use to make it to your likeing. They are adjustable up the wazoo. They are more acurate than most guns will ever be (angels) stock. They are fixable if there is ever a problem there isnt really anythign that u cant fix yourself or a local airsmith cant fix. They are amazingly well priced for what they aer. With hinge triggers u can fire as fast as any supersemi.. well atleast i can, and everyone ive seen with one. Instant messange me some time and ill tell u more. my aim name is LiiGoD.

[AllAmericanMag]

I shouldn't have read this thread, now I want a 'Cocker. :D

[FeelTheRT]

Originally posted by HyperSnyper

FeelTheRT. You traded your Mag for a Cocker, what were your reasons?


Well, I just wanted to try something new and have some expirience with it. Acutally why i really traded was because i wanted to trade this Cocker for an Angel a while back but after i opened the box and saw my new gun... i just couldn't let go of it. Now it's been around half a year and i've acutally spent some money myself to add some more upgrades to suite my taste. It's a great gun when it's working, i dun think i'm ever going to sell this :).

[Cardinal_Biggles]

One performance bonus that most people don't consider is that with closed-bolt guns you can shoot one shot at a time upside-down :D. I've popped a few surprised people that way with my bro's cocker.

[liigod]

yea upsidedown stuff is great, ive dont that... i walk out with my gun upside down. I dont call out and i dont raise my hand. I just walk slowly out, walk up next to some anoying dude and THWACK! right in the thigh.

[PBpunk]

thats not real sportsman like.













ha just kiddin you gotta take those annoying ones like that every now and then just so they know their role (of couse thats not really playing paintball)

[DC Nelson]

Tinkering factor...

I love to mess with the thing CONSTANTLY (too much sometimes, so i have to make it work to go play...hehe).

Oh, and so my brother can shoot me with it upside down........ :D

Plus it is giving me an excuse to get a mag... trading parts from the cocker for mag parts.
Almost have a complete mag built from trades, now. :)

DC

[BTAutoMag]

Originally posted by AllAmericanMag
I shouldn't have read this thread, now I want a 'Cocker. :D
i know me too

[HyperSnyper]

the theory seems to still hold true, MAG owners will eventually own a COCKER and COCKER owners will eventually own a MAG.

Experienced players will have both, and will have equal appeal to both.

IMHO I dont believe there should even be a Mag vs Cocker debate. Both saide have aired their rubttles for years. I think the debate is about ELECTRO vs MECHANICAL.

At first, I wanted a mechanical gun, something simple, but ever since I went Hyper, theres no way for me to leave the darkside of paintball.

One con I dont like about electro is how it completely eliminates the uniqueness fo each different guns trigger pull, since now everyone pretty much has the same mouseclick pull.

Oh well... as long as Im happy...

-Hyper

[Top Secret]

Yup, I tryed to resist the 'cockers temptation. Thought my E-mag was adequate. But... my Gen-X 3 is on the way! :D

Mags and Cockers rule!

[Nitroduck]

Lets see.....Why did I get my cocker.

1. Trigger pull....Very unique....I love the fact I can hold 6bps for a whole minute without a problem.

2. Gas efficency, right now Im getting around 2k per 68/45....Not bad.

3. Ball breakage...I went a whole year without a ball chop, and that was no less than 5 cases in it....Maybe 7 cases.

[sniper1rfa]

the moving parts, the complications, it just begs me to take it apart and completely change it on a daily basis.
that and i can get a sickening rapid fire groove because i time my shots on the back block.

then again, the mag works all of the time whereas the cocker (through no fault but my own) is constantly being tinkered with... [evil grin]

[BOOT]

If you haven't tried the Worr Hinge trigger on a cocker, I suggest you do. It is light, amazing and fast, not to mention that you can set the trigger pull much shorter that a slide trigger. With the design it is also much harder to short stroke the trigger as well.

Some that have reviewed the frame have said that it is the best mechanical trigger system available.

One thing I like about a cocker is that fact that it can be customized to the users liking/taste, no two cockers can be alike.

Cockers are also very reliable, PROVIDING YOU DON'T MESS WITH IT if you don't know what you are doing leave it be. Basically if it works don't mess with it.

Just my 2 cents....

[Panzerr]

Two words: flat trajectory. I love my RT to death, but I also love cockers. They're just so da$# neat! They have parts that move and make a neat sound! Gizmo heaven.

[Butterfingers]

Originally posted by Panzerr
Two words: flat trajectory.

One word Elves... Flatter trajectory is physycally and mathmatically impossible given the same velocity and no ball spin.

[bushjumper]

I think it is because there is so much stuff to (watch it! - cphilip)around with on 'cockers. Every single part can be customized. That and the little moving block on the back is mesmerizing.

In fact, sometimes I get a little jealous when I'm sitting there ready to go before a game and I have to wait for the cocker guys to fix their guns and all I had to do was turn on my tank. I feel left out. :D

[Panzerr]

Cocker DO have a flatter trajectory. Go shoot one. Unless you're blind, you'll see a difference between their trajectory and a mag's. It's flatter.

[CRySyS]

I've owned both as well, and I shoot all kinds of guns almost on a daily basis because I work in a PB shop. And if your seeing a so called "flatter trajectory" from your cocker its either shooting faster than the mag or its time to lay off the drugs. Sorry but physics don't lie and the only thing determining the trajectory of the ball is the angle and velocity it was fired at. It doesn't matter what kind of system accelerated it to that velocity at that angle, it will always have the exact same trajectory. Physics just don't lie, until you get into all that wierd quantum probability stuff but trust me, stuff like that isn't effecting your gun in any appreciably way. This does not take into account the effects of spin which is slow and random unless you have something that creates it in one direction and at higher rotations like, say, a Tippmann Flatline or Z-body Mag. This argument has been proven countless times before and untill you can show some proof of your own your just living in a pot smoke induced haze. Sorry. ;)

[~WarpedRT~]

Cockers DO NOT have a flatter trajectory. It's impossible. If they do, then every physics book in the world must now be changed. Some how, Budd has managed to defy the laws of everyday proven physics. Thanks to him, they will now release a new book, called "Budd's Guide to Physics, The Autococker approach" This book will of course be right next to his other book, "How to Steal Ideas from people with a last Name that Starts with 'P'" -laughing-
:D :D :D :D :D :D

Read a book or even pass a course on Physics, and you will see the Autococker doesnt have a flatter trajectory.

[Panzerr]

I love my mag too, but I cannot deny what I see. My eyes aren't lying to me.

Cockers have a different trajectory than mags. As do angels. I hear a lot of people talk about how they cannot defy the laws of physics. I hear talk of elves and WGP voodoo. Well, it must be voodoo 'cause I see a flatter trajectory.

[Nitroduck]

OK , here's a lil something.

I own a cocker ,and i've owned about 8 barrels for it. The ONE thing i do find that is interesting is.... If i do not match paint on my cocker , and take a mag , angel , or bm2k , and mismatch the paint ,the cocker is a lil more accurate. I believe this happens because the ball is already in the barrel and doesn't move, and becuase it doesn't move it doesn't spin as much as a open bolt gun with mismatched paint. Now take any gun , match the paint, it'll shoot the same , my angel , cocker , defiant , and mag all with matched paint WILL shoot the same. They all stack paint at 130ft :)

[Panzerr]

I'm not talking about accuracy. I'm talking about trajectory.

[Butterfingers]

I want you to do this for me. Change the barrel on the mag or cocker so that they are the same length front to back. Chrono both guns to the same velocity. Tape a 1x1 peice of wood to the top of your mag. This order is very important don't chrono then chage barrels. This will change the velocity.

In addition wear earplugs swishes always go farther and shoot flatter than pops. Psycological perception.

Fire and see which is flatter...

The same flight path looks diffrent given the point of refrence.

Flatter trajectory is physycally impossible. Unless your gun has a way to reverse the earths gravitational feild.

If you think your gun honestly shoots flatter I suggest applying for the nobel prize in physics. Because it breaks just about every projectile motion rule defined in modern science.

[HyperSnyper]

Originally posted by Panzerr
Cocker DO have a flatter trajectory. Go shoot one. Unless you're blind, you'll see a difference between their trajectory and a mag's. It's flatter.

Elven Physics? A new breed of physics where fantasy meets science?

-Hyper

[HyperSnyper]

I see the reason why RT sold his Mag (but hes getting another one - hoot) and I see a pattern. I think people just get bored with their guns and move on. They'll get a Spyder, then a Mag/Cocker, get tired and get a Shocker, then want to get an Angel. What's wierd is alot of people at my field, after getting an Angel and playing with it for so long, I notice alot like to play stock pump more often then their semi's. Wierd.

So is that the evolution of the paintball player?

Pump -> Blowback -> Hi-end Semi -> Electro -> Hi-end electro -> Pump

HAHAHAHAAHA! I love this!

-Hyper

[DC Nelson]

On the flatter trajectory issue, i think that nitroduck is exactly right. (plus i love his sig pic...hehe)

Ive shot a mag and a cocker next to each other, using 12 inch dye ss barrels, firing marbs.
BOTH get the same trajectory.
Both have similar groupings on the shots.
Both have similar range (both crono at same fps).

We have a standard upgraded cocker and an sto, and a rf classic mag and an rt to mess with.
They all get the same trajectory, range, and shot groupings.
There are differences in the firing, but thats it.
The cockers have different feels to the trigger pulls, and the rt can go reactive...

I still think that the main appeal for cockers is the tinkering factor. I love to mess with my cocker (even when i dont need to), just because its fun.

DC

[Panzerr]

So let's hear some of these physics everyone is preaching.

[~WarpedRT~]

http://home.surewest.net/hoelkers/dyrgcmn/pballMstrEqns.html

Right theres your equations, and this ends the debate. Try it yourself, and don't think from now on you can scare anyone with asking for proof, because I have it. The entire site is your proof. Cockers have no more of a flatter trajectory than a Talon, shooting the same velocity. Hows that for an insult?

[cphilip]

OUCH! the truth hurts! :D

[~WarpedRT~]

It sure can!

[mykroft]

Why I like the Cocker:

1. Looks, the base gun is rather nice, milling options are by far the most extensive of all available guns, matching front block is nifty.

2. Trigger. The Slide trigger is really nice if you can get used to it, the hinges are even better. IMHO the Eclipse Hinge/STO 3-Way gives the best trigger available on a marker today, the Matrix being close second.

3. Efficiency. Try and find a more efficient gun than a well tuned cocker. The efficiency of the cocker is a big win all around, especially if you pay for fills, or have problems getting a full fill. Try playing a game with an RT when you are only getting 1500 a fill and have a 48/3k system.

4. Chopping. The cocker can be set up so the front pneumatics cycle at so low a pressure that you aren't going to chop anything. The finger in breach trick is possible, I've done it on a tuned Freeflow. Of course you can't shoot it very fast that way, it's a trade off.

5. Customizability. I can make MY cocker, and it won't be like anybody elses cocker.

6. Intimidation Factor. A high end cocker is so easily recognized that it's intimidating when you walk on the field with one.

7. Lack of Intimidation. A stock cocker is a real sleeper with a few upgrades.

[Panzerr]

I'm deeply hurt

Gotta love how someone with a different opinion/experience/observation gets ridiculed around here.

Apparently, I must be on crack or something.

[mykroft]

Panzerr,

The trajectory may look different, but it isn't. The Cocker body extends higher above the barrel centerline than the Mag's body does, this gives an appearance of a different tragectory than from a Mag, you probably also hold the cocker at a different angle than your RT. One thing I do like about the cocker is how well it points. The only way to get a different trajectory out of a gun is to induce backspin on the ball, this is how a Flatline works, as well as a Z-Body, anybody who says different does really need to bone up on their physics. Numerous tests have proven that the cocker doesn't do anything wierd to the paintball. The simple answer to accuracy is that it all depends on consistency of projectile speed out of the barrel. Given a good paint match and an equally consistent gun, you will have equivalent accuracy. Cockers are very consistent out of the box, often cronying in at +/-1fps, they're easy to aim and a stable firing platform (recoil doesn't bounce the gun around much), so they are accurate, an RT set up just as well, with a superbolt to reduce recoil, will be just as accurate, so will my Defiant, or a well tuned Stingray running HPA.

[Hysperion]

even with my current beauty i can't stop eyeing a blue sfl autococker with a shocktech double finger swing trigger....*drool*
warped sportz dark blue dark ir3 angel *must have* *drool* i might get all 3 :).....already got a purple 2k1 angel fly-2 on the way...but I got a great deal on that one.....

[HyperSnyper]

I remember having a debate about the Cocker vs Mag trajectory in another forum. There was a person that made an interesting comment.

He said that Cockers because of their blowback would cause the barrel to lift on recoil, thus increasing the trajectory angle.

While on Mags, since the action is blow forward, it would cause the barrel to dip, thus dropping the trajectory angle.

With both guns in comparison, there would be a slight illusion that the Cocker wouls be getting a slightly better range.

Very interesting...

-Hyper