Choppin woes

[Gabehcoud]

Alright so after having some previous issues with my mag all figured out finally, now I have a chopping issue which I don't necessarily think is gun related but more paint and field requirements causing the issues. Anyways I have an rt mag with lv10 bolt. My field that I play at has marballizer that you can buy there and use for 40 a case vs. 65 a case of their regular field paint if you have a byop membership which is 50 bucks a year so obviously for money issues I buy the marbs. It is very brittle compared to there regular field paint. Also there velocity max is 260 fps. So the only spring I can use on the lv10 and still meet velocity is the shortest bronze spring but it is too light to prevent chops when I bounce the trigger. I can't do any better in the hopper department as I have both a rotor and a spire 3. I get less chops when using the rotor but it will still occasionally happen. If I try putting the red spring, I have to turn the velocity to high before it will reliably cycle. I even have a red spring that I have trimmed somewhere between the bronze and a regular red and that still doesn't work. Also, and I am not sure if this is related but I find that my field strip screw tightness is quite finicky. Like it has to be finger tight and then backed off a little bit maybe half a turn. Any ideas on what to do

[rawbutter]

I even have a red spring that I have trimmed somewhere between the bronze and a regular red and that still doesn't work.

Can you be more specific? You should be able to trim the red spring down so it works reliably at a lower FPS. If you did, and it's only shooting at 270, for instance, then you should be able to trim off a little bit more.

Also, have you tried the gold spring? I once played at a field that had a 250 fps restriction, but I was able to achieve that velocity with a gold spring.




Also, and I am not sure if this is related but I find that my field strip screw tightness is quite finicky. Like it has to be finger tight and then backed off a little bit maybe half a turn.

This is normal.

[vintage]

marbs have gone to garbage status. spring for the 60 dollar case one time and see if it makes a difference, i bet it will. also i'm with raw butter on the gold spring, all my level 10's are running gold springs at the moment..

[Gabehcoud]

Yeah bronze is what I was calling it but gold spring was what I was using and I got chops. Not a lot but enough to ruin some games. I can reach the velocity easy with that spring but would like to get no chops, I have been using the field paint mostly over the last year but the last two day I went I used the marbs because it was cheaper and supposedly better but it's really brittle like breaks with no bounce from a drop test. I will try trimming the red spring that I already trimmed a little more and see if that does anything. It's also really only chops when I rt which when I do it's insanely fast so I'll probably put in a .745 on off pin instead of the .740 and see if that helps my rotor keep up.

[Gabehcoud]

Update: I took my mag to work today as it was international bring your automag to work day. I showed it off to some of the guys at work who are into paintball but not very seriously. I still had the trimmed red spring in the gun from when I was messing with it but I had turned the velocity up a little so it would cycle when I was messing the with the different springs earlier, I also had some of the expensive field paint that was pretty old (4-5 months maybe) and was using my rotor. Worked flawlessly. I didn't get any chops but I only because I didn't have any missfeeds and the trigger was just bouncing away. They were blown away by it so I ended up loading up another hopper and let them all mess with it and still no chops but again no misfeeds wither to give it a chance to chop. So who knows. I know the velocity was to high but I do think the red spring has more springiness than the gold. Like if they were the same length I think the red would still be more resistive to compression (I know there's a technical term for this but I don't know it), so maybe I'll just have to play around with lengths till I get it to where I can chronic at 260 reliably. Guess a chrono should be on my Christmas list

[edallie]

This thread is two years old but instead of starting a new thread would love to have tips on diagnosing paint chopping.

Just picked up a new to me mag, and the pertinent details are:
Xvalve (wasn’t leaking so I didn’t open up the mag to inspect the rest of the internals)
New ninja 50/4500 but have no idea the outlet pressure (I think ninja ships 850 out of the box)
My kid’s spare $2 hopper
Sly diesel barrel with the .689 back
Intelliframe and i presume the stock RT on/off
Running 270-275 fps

This led to lots of chopped paint. I finally switched to the .692 back and that seemed to improve but still some breaks.

Q1: how do I diagnose why I’m chopping?
Q2: is it possible to use a cheap gravity fed hopper and get no breaks? Not trying to shoot 15 bps but am genuinely curious if it’s possible to run the gravity fed hopper if you don’t care about rate of fire (I know that begs lots of questions but humor me)?

[athomas]

A few questions need to be answered:

Is your X-valve running a level 10 bolt? It should be, but is it?
What body style are you using? Is it an AGD ULE body, a steel powerfeed body, or an aftermarket body?
Are your detents properly adjusted for your body?
What size and grade is the paint you are using?

You can use a cheap gravity fed hopper. A mag with a level 10 will prevent chops from any hopper if properly setup. You won't get a high rate of fire, due to gravity and blockage, but it will still work.

[edallie]

Should be a level 10 bolt (I see the foamie, and that’s only level 10 right?)

Tac One body, Center Feed with a ccm fitting. I don’t think it’s a tac one rail (per the seller).

Field paint—who knows what it is, will take a pic.

The detent—it’s a little ball looking thing screwed in from the side. Angel threaded, right?

[athomas]

Should be a level 10 bolt (I see the foamie, and that’s only level 10 right?)

Tac One body, Center Feed with a ccm fitting. I don’t think it’s a tac one rail (per the seller).

Field paint—who knows what it is, will take a pic.

The detent—it’s a little ball looking thing screwed in from the side. Angel threaded, right?Some level 7 bolts also had the foamy. It probably is a level 10, but an easy way to tell is to check the bolt stem. If it is a stepped stem (smaller at the back) with a tiny air hole in the side, then it is level 10. If it is a larger solid bolt stem for the whole length of the bolt, then it is level 7.

TAC-One bodies should be fine. I don't think there were any issues that would cause misalignments. Just make sure the detents are not worn out such that they are allowing the balls to roll forward so that the next ball in the stack gets into the breach and jammed against the one in front of it. I doubt this is your issue.

The size and shape of the paint could be an issue. If the bolt tries to jam a large or misshaped ball into a barrel that is too tight for it, it could break. In those cases, it isn't a chop. It is a barrel break. The only real fix is to use better paint. You can get away with using the poor paint, but you need to make sure you are using a barrel that has a large enough inside diameter so that the balls easily get pushed in without much resistance.

[edallie]

The bolt is a level 10. I replaced the bumper and a couple of o-rings (need the diagram to say which ones...). Gave the entire thing a good cleaning. The detent seems fine; it holds a ball and prevents its forward movement.

So this seems to be breaking in the barrel then? Is there a way to tell the difference between a chop and a barrel break?

[athomas]

If the level 10 bolt works at all, the problem is most likely a barrel break. Try sticking something stiff against the face of the bolt and firing the gun. If the level 10 kicks in and vents, then it is working and your problem is a barrel break.

[Mondoatx]

The bolt is a level 10. I replaced the bumper and a couple of o-rings (need the diagram to say which ones...). Gave the entire thing a good cleaning. The detent seems fine; it holds a ball and prevents its forward movement.

So this seems to be breaking in the barrel then? Is there a way to tell the difference between a chop and a barrel break?

Paint on your bolt and on the breach and feedneck = chop... if those things are clean and paint is only in the barrel: break.

My field sells marb that is total ****... I have to buy evil if I want to use any of my mags...


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[athomas]

I can use the most brittle paint available if I use oversized barrels on my mags.

You will get more ball fragments in the breach area and feedneck if it is a chop, but you can get some with a barrel break too, if the ball is smashed while being pushed into a tight barrel.

[edallie]

Finally got a chance to test it out with the .692 bore. No chop or break, but now I got a leak down the barrel and after several shots it gets louder and the bolt won’t cock. If I just release and then retighten the ASA, it resets and fires again. So I assume that by replacing some but not all of the o-rings in the xvalve, I’ve left a leak. But no paint in the gun!

[athomas]

Does the leak stop shortly after you hold the trigger in following a shot? If so, then you have a bad on-off top oring. Generally any bolt stick with an accompanied leak won't be due to a carrier oring unless you have too many shims installed. Check gun by shooting and holding the trigger in. It will anwer a lot of the leak questions.