New to Automags

[jbtamu1011]

Howdy all,

I played a bit of paintball back when I was a teenager in the early 2000's. I still have my Spyder Xtra from back then. I've always admired the high end paintball guns like the Autocockers and Automags, especially the Automags. I never was really into paintball that much to justify getting an Automag. Now, I'm starting to reminisce about how much I wanted one. I'm an adult now with a good job so that's why I'd like to own one now. I know they are not producing Automags anymore, but I can find some on Ebay for sale or I found Luke's Customs and Tunamart from browsing this forum. My questions are:


Is it still worth buying an Automag?
Should I buy a stock Automag/Minimag to begin with or buy parts to build my own (more expensive?)?
How much are stock Mags worth when looking?
Should I go the Ebay route or Luke's/Tunamart route?


I love to tinker with things and put things together. I've built Legos when I was kid. Built and worked on nitro RC cars from a kit (first time a couple years ago. still running well). Those are just a couple examples.

I've never really worked on paintball guns but love to learn through the experience. I'm about to rebuild my Xtra for the first time to see if the leak will stop. haha

I'd love to hear your advice and suggestions. Not looking to really spend a lot to start with.

[Gundam V]

Short answer, yes!!! It's worth owning. As far as stock or custom one, that up to you. From what I've seen, stock one runs from 130-180. Lastly, depends on the route you choose. Most people buy a used one on Ebay or the forums, than they customize those. Once again upto you on the route you choose.

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[luke]

You'll get a lot of different advice but I suggest you stay away from the Classic stuff. Buy an X valve and build the rest to taste. There's plenty of help here to get you up and running.

Welcome to the forum.

[jbtamu1011]

Short answer, yes!!! It's worth owning. As far as stock or custom one, that up to you. From what I've seen, stock one runs from 130-180. Lastly, depends on the route you choose. Most people buy a used one on Ebay or the forums, than they customize those. Once again upto you on the route you choose.

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I've seen some classics around that price.


You'll get a lot of different advice but I suggest you stay away from the Classic stuff. Buy an X valve and build the rest to taste. There's plenty of help here to get you up and running.

Welcome to the forum.

Thanks! Luke, what's the reasoning behind your suggestion? Why shy away from the classic?

[alpha_q_up23]

A classic is nice for nostalgia and classic builds. If you have the ability to, I'd recommend a ule and xvalve and build around that depending on how custom you want it.
A classic is okay to start off with but if you're gonna buy one and upgrade it slowly, in the long run you'll end up with the original classic build and your xvalved/rt valved mag(which is nice if you want a backup/loaner). Personally my first build was a ule, a stock rail, and a 32 Degree single trigger with an slowly it got built to my likings. All you gotta do is find out what you like and then it's a wait g gane until the parts you want come up

[luke]

Thanks! Luke, what's the reasoning behind your suggestion? Why shy away from the classic?

The Classic marker will work and will long out last your playing days. But even AGD moved on, it's been replaced with better technology. All performance upgrades will basically replace an entire classic marker. If you're a collector a I'm sure a Classic will fit in nicely. There are so many different parts to choose from why not pick each piece individually and build to taste? Check out the Armory and the MOTH winner thread, a Mag can be built 100's of different ways, just decide what yours should look like. :)

[Walking Stick]

I think the greatest benefits with the X-valve over a ss classic valve are the weight difference and Reactive Trigger that eliminates short-stoking. An anti-chop Level 10 bolt is ingenious and the best 'Mag upgrade you can buy (and was stock on the X-valves).

People will whine about the air inefficiency, high pressure open bolt operation, airlines and probably other crap...but to each their own. I don't think there is anything as streamlined, well-packaged, distinctive and modular than a 'Mag.

There are so many options floating around (some MUCH harder to find than others but the hunt can be half the fun):Tuna, Deadlywind, RPG, XMT, Logic, Cerberus, Nummech, Luke, RKD 3D, KAM, Magnus, Venomous Designs, ProTeam Products, Benchmark, ProLine, Smart Parts, Eclipse, Taso, Diggers, CenterFlag, G-Force, Boo-Yah, ANS, Diamond Labs, SpecOps and factory AGD stuff like Z-/Y-gripsn Warp Feeds and bodies, the TacOne, X-Mag...

[captian pinky]

Sent you a pm, maybe I can help.


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[Tunaman]

I have all kinds of classic mags here if you want to start with something cheap. My used guns will be just as good as a new one.

[mobsterboy]

I have all kinds of classic mags here if you want to start with something cheap. My used guns will be just as good as a new one.

Tuna is the man to see! Dude is legit and has always hooked me up when I was in need.

And shame on yall for knocking a good classic valved mag. They are awesome, and also a free workout :)

[jbtamu1011]

Awesome everyone! Thanks for all the great suggestions. Seems like a great group on this forum. Yall were quick to respond. 😁

[Konigballer]

And shame on yall for knocking a good classic valved mag. They are awesome, and also a free workout :)

Agreed! If he's coming at this from a place of nostalgia, which he seems to be, then a classic valved mag, or minimag, would work great! They are the actual high end/tourney grade markers that made AGD a legend. Everything after that was when AGD was already on the backfoot, downward slope of popularity as electros took over.

Now if nostalgia isn't the main driver, and you want something more modern in form/function, then yes, a ULE mag with a X-valve would be the wiser route.

Just identify why your getting into them and what you want from it performance wise, it will save you some money in the long run.

[jbtamu1011]

Agreed! If he's coming at this from a place of nostalgia, which he seems to be, then a classic valved mag, or minimag, would work great! They are the actual high end/tourney grade markers that made AGD a legend. Everything after that was when AGD was already on the backfoot, downward slope of popularity as electros took over.

Now if nostalgia isn't the main driver, and you want something more modern in form/function, then yes, a ULE mag with a X-valve would be the wiser route.

Just identify why your getting into them and what you want from it performance wise, it will save you some money in the long run.
I like the classics but I'd like to make it my own eventually. Not sure I'd getting familiar with the classic or building one would be the best route to get to know the design and function.

[mobsterboy]

I like the classics but I'd like to make it my own eventually. Not sure I'd getting familiar with the classic or building one would be the best route to get to know the design and function.

So maybe we are not going basic enough, and you'll have to excuse us for not starting there first.

When most of us keep saying Classic vs Xvalve, we are referring to the Valve on the back of the 'Mag itself. Consider it like the engine of the gun.

A classic valve came with the Automag and Minimag guns (and some Micromags.) It is heavy, as it is made of stainless and had a known issue for chuffing or short stroking. These valves can be installed with a Level 10 bolt (which if tuned correctly eliminates ball chopping) but are pretty limited other than that.

The X valve that people keep referring to was the final form of the upgraded valve. It came with a more reactive on/off (better trigger pull, almost eliminating short stroke), Aluminum design so it was much lighter, and has a few options for tuning it in just the way you like it. There are a few valves in between but most consider the XValve to be the new platform to build a 'Mag around.
These two are separate entities, and a Classic valve cannot be built into an Xvalve. However, most Custom Mag builds will accept Classic Valves and X Valves. There are some iterations like a Pneumag that could make that swap difficult.

After that its pretty much choosing what you like for the Body, Rail, Foregrip and triggerframe. This is where you can get as crazy or as simple as you like. Older bodies without autococker threading used a twistlock system. Some of those bodies will limit what kind of rail and triggerframe is accepted, mostly for the square body screwhole and the twistlock pin geometry not allowing them to be compatible.
This part right here is where we all have probably spent thousands of dollars on over the years. For me personally, what makes mags such a draw is the almost infinite customization. Build it, play with it, and realize you dont like the triggerframe? That's when you can go on the hunt for another that suits you better. Love the frame but the trigger is just not doing it for you? Lots of options available to swap out with.

Pinky, Tuna, Luke, and everyone else feel free to chime in from here. And by all means correct me where I'm wrong. I am no Xvalve authority, although I do run a few.

[Gundam V]

You know, I've been thinking about this for a while. In today's paintball is chopping even still an issue with modern force feed hoppers? I understand with gravityfed and old agitated style hoppers like the revy needing level 10. I think level 10 is more valuable today is cause its a little more gentle on paint since its lighter and moves a little slower. Whether it's a level 7 stainless retro valve, a level 10 stainless retro valve, or the lighter level 10 eqipped xvalve. You really cant go wrong. Also to slightly clarify, there are 2 retro valves aka rt valves. There's a stainless rt valve and an aluminum one. Alongside a classic am/mm valve. Whichever you choose to go with, they are still good ones, although the classic valves have a couple of minor hiccups the rt valves eliminated. It's still a good valve regardless.

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[jbtamu1011]

Guys, I'm learning so much. Thanks for explaining things to me about differences. I guess when I'm saying classic, I'm meaning the stock/original mags be it all stock or stock body with upgraded valve. No customization of other parts. I didn't think that would mean the different type of valves as well. But thanks for clarifying.

I think I meant to say is, would buying a complete marker be it stock/upgraded be more beneficial to learning the gun or would building a stock or custom mag from parts help more in learning it. I know people have different ways of learning. I hope that makes sense.

[Gundam V]

Custom is most fun way of learning.

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[luke]

I think I meant to say is, would buying a complete marker be it stock/upgraded be more beneficial to learning the gun or would building a stock or custom mag from parts help more in learning it. I know people have different ways of learning. I hope that makes sense.

We do understand, but there is no advantage going that route because essentially a custom mag operates exactly like a stock Mag. That said there's no wrong answers here, yours or anyone else. ;)

If you want to start with a $150 Classic Mag have at it, no one here will fault you for it. :)

[mobsterboy]

If you want to start with a $150 Classic Mag have at it, no one here will fault you for it. :)

Agreed. I think this is probably where the majority of us started as well.

[Tunaman]

You know, I've been thinking about this for a while. In today's paintball is chopping even still an issue with modern force feed hoppers? I understand with gravityfed and old agitated style hoppers like the revy needing level 10. I think level 10 is more valuable today is cause its a little more gentle on paint since its lighter and moves a little slower. Whether it's a level 7 stainless retro valve, a level 10 stainless retro valve, or the lighter level 10 eqipped xvalve. You really cant go wrong. Also to slightly clarify, there are 2 retro valves aka rt valves. There's a stainless rt valve and an aluminum one. Alongside a classic am/mm valve. Whichever you choose to go with, they are still good ones, although the classic valves have a couple of minor hiccups the rt valves eliminated. It's still a good valve regardless.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using TapatalkNo all stainless RT/Retro valve that I know of....and I know a little bit...

[mobsterboy]

No all stainless RT/Retro valve that I know of....and I know a little bit...

Maybe hes thinking of the rt pro?

[Gundam V]

No all stainless RT/Retro valve that I know of....and I know a little bit...What's all stainless rt/retro valve that you know of? Did I say something weird?

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[jbtamu1011]

I have all kinds of classic mags here if you want to start with something cheap. My used guns will be just as good as a new one.

Tuna, on your site you list a pro classic for sale as a complete gun. What's on a pro classic?

[jbtamu1011]

I have a question about air source. I've read you could use CO2 or HPA with the classic mags, preferably HPA since it's easier on o-rings. What tank is good to use with Mags? 3000psi or 4500psi? I know the cubic inch spec is how much the tank can hold. Also, is there any particular regulators on the tank that I need to look at for? This is probably going to open up a whole other conversation and opinions as well ;)

[Gundam V]

68 cu 4500psi is sufficient, ninja systems I heard were real good to use. As long as your output is between 700 - 850 psi, you should be good.

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[Tunaman]

Tuna, on your site you list a pro classic for sale as a complete gun. What's on a pro classic?

Whatever you want. The complete guns have been out of stock for a few years now. I build them all from scratch now.

[Tunaman]

What's all stainless rt/retro valve that you know of? Did I say something weird?

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"Also to slightly clarify, there are 2 retro valves aka rt valves. There's a stainless rt valve and an aluminum one."
You said the above...never saw an all stainless RT valve.

[Gundam V]

Oh, didn't catch the wording of that, that's what came out weird. Fine...... when I said stainless rt valve, I meant the front portion is stainless and the rear part is aluminum. On an x-valve only the power tube portion is stainless, iirc. You knew what I meant....... :P

[jbtamu1011]

68 cu 4500psi is sufficient, ninja systems I heard were real good to use. As long as your output is between 700 - 850 psi, you should be good.

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Would I ever need to be operating at a higher psi?

[Gundam V]

If you want a more reactive trigger, than yes. Other than that, you dont need to go higher than stated.

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[Flatliner333]

If you end up using a Classic valve set up there is no benefit to using higher pressure. If you use an RT / X type valve you will have a more reactive trigger with higher pressure, look up some youtube videos on the Automag RT and you will see what I am talking about. I have been watching this thread for a couple of days and there is a lot of good feedback. Just keep in mind that Automags in general are very versatile and most parts can be interchanged at will. Most people look at an Automag as the some of its various parts...Body,Rail,Trigger Frame,valve,Barrel etc. It is for this reason that most of us have multiple mags because if you have just a couple of these parts you have the start of a new and different Mag with the main part being the Valve. Automags are like rabbits and tend to multiply very quickly. If you are looking to have just one Mag and not get Mag fever so to speak I suggest looking at all the different options for the different parts needed to build one and piece it together to your liking. As stated above look at the picture thread or the Mag Of the Month (MOTM) thread to get an idea of all the different and awesome builds that have been done over the years. :cheers:

[jbtamu1011]

If you end up using a Classic valve set up there is no benefit to using higher pressure. If you use an RT / X type valve you will have a more reactive trigger with higher pressure, look up some youtube videos on the Automag RT and you will see what I am talking about. I have been watching this thread for a couple of days and there is a lot of good feedback. Just keep in mind that Automags in general are very versatile and most parts can be interchanged at will. Most people look at an Automag as the some of its various parts...Body,Rail,Trigger Frame,valve,Barrel etc. It is for this reason that most of us have multiple mags because if you have just a couple of these parts you have the start of a new and different Mag with the main part being the Valve. Automags are like rabbits and tend to multiply very quickly. If you are looking to have just one Mag and not get Mag fever so to speak I suggest looking at all the different options for the different parts needed to build one and piece it together to your liking. As stated above look at the picture thread or the Mag Of the Month (MOTM) thread to get an idea of all the different and awesome builds that have been done over the years. :cheers:

Hey Flatliner. Howdy from another fellow Texan!! Thanks for the info. I've looked through the pictures and the MOTM threads. I just start drooling and it makes it harder to know what to want mine to be eventually. I keep telling myself to just go somewhat basic as to not spend much right now, especially my first EVER Automag. You had some mean looking customs in the MOTM.

[luke]

I've looked through the pictures and the MOTM threads. I just start drooling and it makes it harder to know what to want mine to be eventually. I keep telling myself to just go somewhat basic as to not spend much right now, especially my first EVER Automag.

I'm one of those guys that HATE spending entry level money, because I know if I love something I'm going all in anyway. It doesn't matter what it is, paintball, tools, cars, motorcycles, anything. It just makes the initial purchase a waste of money, that's why I suggested just buying an X Valve, any level of performance can be built around it because it is the heart of the marker. You can go mechanical, pump, pneu-mag or electro, it covers all bases. :)

[jbtamu1011]

I'm one of those guys that HATE spending entry level money, because I know if I love something I'm going all in anyway. It doesn't matter what it is, paintball, tools, cars, motorcycles, anything. It just makes the initial purchase a waste of money, that's why I suggested just buying an X Valve, any level of performance can be built around it because it is the heart of the marker. You can go mechanical, pump, pneu-mag or electro, it covers all bases. :)

You're right. I do all my research and studying on thing I purchase and try to go for the best for the money. I should really consider building around the X Valve. Already has the better bolt and performance. Heck, looks pretty sweet being all black with a big X on it. My fear is that I would get a stock one and play with. Not soon after, I'd be looking at upgrades and other stuff, spending more money. :eek::eek:

[luke]

You're right. I do all my research and studying on thing I purchase and try to go for the best for the money. I should really consider building around the X Valve. Already has the better bolt and performance. Heck, looks pretty sweet being all black with a big X on it. My fear is that I would get a stock one and play with. Not soon after, I'd be looking at upgrades and other stuff, spending more money. :eek::eek:

I've loved Mags way back from when they were only available with the Stainless valves, then upgraded to the ReTro valve a soon as they came available, I did a factory trade in on my Classic valve for one. Even though I loved the setup I always felt it was missing something performance wise. Today all those years later the Mag is now performing at the level I wanted back in the tourny days. The modern Mag performs at a completely different level than the old days, enough to make you giggle like a little school girl. A recent quote from an old cocker guy I recently built a marker for. :)

[luke]

One thing to note is you can buy all the parts you want new or used and there's any number of guys around here that can assemble and tune it for you, members and shops alike. All you have to do is figure out what you want, 90% the members here can help you with your parts list, no one will leave you hanging with a pile of parts you cant put to work. ;)

[mobsterboy]

You're right. I do all my research and studying on thing I purchase and try to go for the best for the money. I should really consider building around the X Valve. Already has the better bolt and performance. Heck, looks pretty sweet being all black with a big X on it. My fear is that I would get a stock one and play with. Not soon after, I'd be looking at upgrades and other stuff, spending more money. :eek::eek:

Lol, this is pretty much what happened to me. I personally loved my classic mag experience though. It made me appreciate the upgrades and that nostalgia of playing woodsball against a bunch of rt'ed out Tippmans and old Spyders is just a classic

Luke here is one of the guys that offers new parts on his site, and is constantly working on more and more new products to offer the public. Be sure to take a look at his stuff and browse his site (yes, Luke, I am plugging you) and you might be in luck since he has a new round of parts coming out now.

And while you're at it, check the dealer thread. There are a few guys that offer stuff in stock. AO User KnowNothingMags is another one that offers new products in the form of quite a few 3D printed products. This is a cheaper and lighter option that can affordably let you try different designs and colors. His designs hold up quite well with the type of 3D printing and the engineered supports in the design itself so you can rest easy knowing it will take a beating.

[Gundam V]

Let me say this though, tread carefully or you'll wind up wanting multiple mags. I have 2 rt valve mags, had them for over 15 yrs. Now I'm in the process of building 4 more....damned thing is I dont need them, but I want them.

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[luke]

Don't forget about the Armory too >> https://www.automags.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?51-The-Armory

[captian pinky]

Let me say this though, tread carefully or you'll wind up wanting multiple mags. I have 2 rt valve mags, had them for over 15 yrs. Now I'm in the process of building 4 more....damned thing is I dont need them, but I want them.


I lost count at 30 mags



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[jbtamu1011]

I lost count at 30 mags



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:wow::wow::wow:

[Gundam V]

I lost count at 30 mags



Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkSee what I mean. I only just starting to get multiple. Than we got cats like Capt. [emoji16]

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[vintage]

See what I mean. I only just starting to get multiple. Than we got cats like Capt. [emoji16]

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i'm somewhere in the mid 20's with parts for several more.

[jbtamu1011]

Man, these guns must be something special for people to not have just one. :-)

[Tunaman]

Man, these guns must be something special for people to not have just one. :-)

Best guns ever made.

[Gundam V]

Best guns ever made.Aside from this, its cause its so customizable. Its easier to have more than one rather than change out parts just for a different look. For example, look at inception designs. They make some nice looking autocockers, but impractical to own multiple at almost 1500 a pop. For that price you can have 3 custom mags, with different aesthetics to choose from whenever you go to you field. You might even luck out and score more than 3 mags if you look around to find some deals. But my point is for the money, you cannot get a better gun in my opinion.

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[jbtamu1011]

That's great to know, Gundam!! I do have a question. I've seen the terms foamie and foamieless when describing the bolt. What exactly do those mean?

[Gundam V]

Foamieless bolts are bolts without the foamie on the tip. Foamie bolts have a piece of foam on the tip of the bolt. Its suppose to help by being gentle on paint. I never paid attention to whether or not the foamie did anything. But I can tell you the foamieless bolts work just fine.

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[Flatliner333]

Hey Flatliner. Howdy from another fellow Texan!! Thanks for the info. I've looked through the pictures and the MOTM threads. I just start drooling and it makes it harder to know what to want mine to be eventually. I keep telling myself to just go somewhat basic as to not spend much right now, especially my first EVER Automag. You had some mean looking customs in the MOTM.

What part of Texas ?

[jbtamu1011]

What part of Texas ?

Waco area.

[jbtamu1011]

Anyone use or have used a First Strike tank with their Automag?

[going_home]

Standard output Ninja.

;)

[jbtamu1011]

With X Valve on Automag?

[Gundam V]

Yeah

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