Micro/Macro Line

[awg9tech]

Does anyone know the burst/working psi of the micro/macro line(s) that is being used on markers now? Is there a burst/working psi ratio that the marker industry has established?

[awg9tech]

OK, I didn't do a post search before I posted the initial. I see that this has been around before. My concern is that I have yet to find a micro line fitting with a working psi of more than 260psig. The psi out of my reg. is ~800psi. I don't know of many people that run the reg. much lower than that, much less 260psig. If anyone has a link for micro fittings/line that states a sutable working psi pls. post it. And......what is sutable working psi? I've heard 4x working, is this true?

[Tunaman]

Forget the Micro. It can be very unsafe. Use Parker Macro or stainless only. Parker Macro is rated to 500 psi working pressure so its good for 2000 psi. Everyone knows where to get it.:D

[awg9tech]

Precisely my point. A working psi of 500, so, use it anyway?? Like I mentioned, my req. output is ~800psi, 300psi over the working psi of the aforementioned macro line. Am I missing something? I am asumeing that the "working" psi is what the industry has deemed safe. Am I wrong?

[Tunaman]

Yes...use it anyway. It will not burst untill you reach upwards of 2000 psi.

[awg9tech]

OK, I also have a fiber wraped 3000psi tank. Burst psi is 5k. So it's OK to fill to 4500? I'll be sure to tell my local field that.

[Tunaman]

Well in that case, you should go get some 1/2" thick, 3" diameter, case-hardened pipe and use that on your marker. You should feel safe then...

[awg9tech]

It's OK to go beyond the working psi of macro/micro line, but somehow, going beyond the working psi of my tank, gets me a sarcastic "you should be safe" remark. What other safety rules can I break? Which ones must be enforced? I am not one of those people who need the “don’t use this hair dryer in the tub” treatment. However, the industry does require that all paintball masks/goggles be consistent with some pretty high standards. Is this treatment not across the board in regards to other equipment?

[Tunaman]

I don't mean to sound sarcastic. I know what you mean about industry standards. The problem is that The parker macro is the best there is (that is strong enough and flexible enough) for paintball use. The difference in the Tank specs and the Macro specs is that it is ILLEGAL for anyone except certified DOT inspection stations to fill your tank beyond the rated pressure. The 4500 psi tanks can hold 10000+ psi. There is nothing 100% safe about this sport.

[awg9tech]

Thanks for the info on the Parker macro. I'll look those guys up.
The industry standard is what I was initially trying to nail down. I see a catch 22 somewhere is all that mess. If some paintball store sells some kid a micro/macro line and injuries accure because of a catastrophic failure, who's to blame? As a “common sense” rule, yea, the odds of a macro line failure is probably pretty great however, I would never tell anyone that, especially if that person could take legal action against me or the sport.
I don’t like the idea of this sport having to tip toe around such issues. Safety First…. Keep your goggles down……oh, but don’t worry about the (insert any vague safety issue here)


Thanks for your help.

[cphilip]

Moving out of Deep Blue to Main.

[mykroft]

The usual thing is 3x rating is burst, some manufacturers rate at 4x, which I applaud, but I still don't recceomend using anything other than SS Braid unless you are running a LP setup, with a LP Air System (Output of Air System is sub-400psi), otherwise you are pushing it. Yes the colours of Macro are neat, but safety is Job 1. SS Braid is usually rated at 1500+ psi, I've heard of it taking full pressure from a 3k tank with a blown reg.

[Thordic]

I don't really see any "catostrophic injury" happening with macro line. A couple stitches in someones finger, perhaps, which as far as I am concerned is still a minor injury. I've bled enough to get dizzy on a couple occasions, and I still wouldn't count those are serious injuries, though.

As for safety, Macroline may have a WP of 500 PSI, but look at the track record, esp. at parker in particular. It has been used by people for YEARS without bursting. Its solid stuff.

It all comes down to what you want to do though. If you don't like putting 800 PSI in 500 PSI macroline, then don't use it and quit complaining :)

[bjjb99]

mykroft,

I'm using something similar to SS braid on my mag, but the exterior is black. It has a 3000 psi rating written on the exterior, if memory serves (not at home right now or I'd check to be sure). I believe it's fiber wrapped rather than SS braid, and is generally used in hydraulic applications. Got it from the local paintball store as a substitute for SS braid. Looks nice too, though SS braid would have looked pretty good as well.

BJJB

[MikeCouves]

Well any nitro tank HAS to be able to do 4-5 times it's regular fill pressure, that's the rules.

[RaV3n_Pa1ntba||]

I am an All-Star Stainless Steel braided hose guy.. but just started liking macro.. where do i get this parker stuff

[Butterfingers]

TUNAMAN has parker paraflex. Its good stuff. I have yellow on my project mag now. I belive it comes in a small variety of colors

[tremis]

I have always been under the impression that working pressure is the rating for which you can constanly use something for a long long time. Just like tanks. You know when they hydro them, they do it 1.5 times the working pressure. I'm pretty sure thats what they said at the APLs high pressure course, but that was 7 years ago. So in that case its not only Ok to overfill, but goverment mandated. Of course after I think 5 hydros, they wont hydro it anymore as the previous hydros have stressed the tank too much. So personally, I would use macro line, and I'd just replace it every so often. Myself, I would just do it at the beginning of every season.

Tremis

[awg9tech]

Yes, when you hydro a tank, one check may be to over fill it. And that may happen up to 5 times in the tanks lifetime (I have not verified this info)If it is true, at 1.5 times working psi, it's not even close to burst psi.
But, when you use micro/macro line on a system that uses ~600-800 working psi, you're "over filling" every single time you charge your marker. So, if the tank info is true (over fill of tanks at hydro/5 time limit on over fill) don't you think you reach the micro/macro line "limit" in an average day of play? If so, how many players change out the macro/micro lines at the end of the day?

[tremis]

I don't think there is a hard and fast rule of 5 times. It has to depend on what material you are over pressurizing. And my personal opinion is that with 3k or 4.5k you dont mess around with it. At 800psi I dont mind. When micro line first came out, a bunch of guys on my team bought some from national. At least twice a day a fitting let loose of the line. No wild hose syndrome, in fact we were able to usually just stick it back in the fitting without turnung off the tank. We eventaully all quit using micro line. It just was too unreliable. And actually burst pressure isn't 4 times working pressure, its the other way around, working pressure is 1/4 burst pressure. They figure out at what PSI it breaks at and multiply that by .25 for continous use. This has been the standard originally used on steel pressure vessels, something inside tells me that some materials can be used at more or less than 1/4 burst pressure. And you dont use your macro line continuosly either. When I was playing the most I ever have, it was still twice a week for 8 or so hours. The rest of the week my gun sat with no pressure in it. That has to factor in its strength also.
I have been meaning to try macro line so I could get the exact lengths I want, but I haven't changed a part on my gun for a couple of years and I just keep putting it off.

Tremis

[steveg]

Trying to draw a parallel between plactic line and a HPA
tank is not really correct. each are assigned working and
maximum pressures for different reasons.
The plactic line can end up in extremely harsh conditions,
submerged in oils,coolants, exposed to acids,abrasives,
corrosives and a whole bunch of other unpleasant enviroments,
and in a lot of cases the lines are constantly being bent and flexed.

running the line at 1/3 ~ 1/4 of its burst pressure is not
a hazard. As stated above, years of successfull use proves
that.


P.S. just looked at the spec sheet for the Dayco nylo-seal
44-NH tube that came with my matrix 625 working and 2500
burst, this tube is rated to carry liquid at this pressure.
Liquid is much harder than air on tubing, because pressure
pulses must be absorbed only by the tube, but air,being
compressable, will absorb some of the pulse. this puts less
stress on the tube. I suspect that an air only rating
would be higher than 625 psi.

[Hexis]

During a hydro test tanks are filled to 5/3 of their normal rated pressure. (5k on a 3k tank, 7.5k on a 4.5k).

Tunaman, does that parker line use normal Macro fittings?

[Thordic]

Also you should look at size. Smaller vessels/tubes/etc are more stable. Did you know that Co2 tanks under 3" in diameter are immune to hydrotesting laws?

The ID of macroline is almost the same as the wall thickness. Thats would be like have 4" thick walls on your HPA tank. (Bad comparison, plastic against alum/CF, but you get the point).

At its tiny size, it is very structurally sound. There is just very little surface area that the pressure could work against.

Think about surface area. Don't even bother with math, just use common sense.

[Tunaman]

Originally posted by Hexis
During a hydro test tanks are filled to 5/3 of their normal rated pressure. (5k on a 3k tank, 7.5k on a 4.5k).

Tunaman, does that parker line use normal Macro fittings? Yes...The parker line uses standard fittings, but I would not use anything but the ones made in the UK. They are superior. I have tried them all...:cool:

[frgood]

I beg to differ with you. I located Nylon tubing 1/8" with an operating pressure of 1000 psi.
The assorted colors are rated at 830psi operating pressure.
The flexible Grade has a tighter turn radius.
I use this tubing with larger brass fittings for a positive connection. but the local stuf work well enough.
and a price around .30/ft.


Product Number ID OD Wall Available Lengths Working PSI (at 70°F) Bend Radius Colors Weight (lbs/100 ft)
2340212 .058 .125 (1/8) .034 500 830 0.313 Black 0.44
2340219 .058 .125 (1/8) .034 100 830 0.313 Blue 0.44
2340254 .058 .125 (1/8) .034 100 830 0.313 Green 0.44
2340261 .058 .125 (1/8) .034 500 830 0.313 Natural 0.44
2340289 .058 .125 (1/8) .034 100 830 0.313 Red 0.44
2340310 .058 .125 (1/8) .034 100 830 0.313 Yellow 0.44



Nylon-12 - Semi-rigid Grade

Product Number ID OD Wall Available Lengths Working PSI (at 70°F) Bend Radius Colors Weight (lbs/100 ft)
2330216 .075 .125 (1/8) .025 500 1000 0.25 Black 0.35
2330265 .075 .125 (1/8) .025 500 1000 0.25 Natural 0.35
2330531 .095 .125 (1/8) .015 500 400 0.375 Black 0.25
2330580 .095 .125 (1/8) .015 500 400 0.375 Natural 0.25

New Age Industries (http://www.newageind.com)

[phish]

Did you know that Co2 tanks under 3" in diameter are immune to hydrotesting laws?


Ahhhh I knew it! Those beligerant(sp?) idiots at pbnation...