We need more 4.5k Flatline Reg Seats!

[captian pinky]

Soo how do we go about getting more made?
What are the costs associated with a run?

Realistically how many do we need? I know there are some guys out there still using them because they are great and adjustable. Id love to have some on hand for customer rebuilds.

If it isn't feasible then that is understandable, but there sure are alot of them floating around.

I have 1 i have been saving in case we need one for dimensions. I know we did an automag zoom call awhile back and someone had a few for the same reason.

Is this something we could have a single mold machined and cast as we need them individually? I want to say the material was something not off the shelf though.

Maybe TK, Sandman, Dave can fill in the gaps and we can get this ball rolling.

[captian pinky]

I think Tim had to check with Dave per my last conversation with him.


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[BigEvil]

Literally one of the worst choices for an adjustable reg.

Convince Dan Colby to make a new Armageddon :D

[captian pinky]

Literally one of the worst choices for an adjustable reg.

Convince Dan Colby to make a new Armageddon :D

I did reach out to Jon Colby to see if he would tell me what material they use for the hard reg seats. I think that is just standard urethane but it seems really hard.

I can think of at least 4 that need reg seats from people that use them. I do like the armageddon too. That is what i use for my tech bench.

[nak81783]

No promises, but I may be able to help. If someone sends me a scrap one (not one being held back for dimensions), I can check durometer at work. If it’s a urethane we use (or something similar), I could probably cast some if a mold were provided.

[captian pinky]

I did some digging today on AO and a few other forums and here is what i found.....

I found a few references to the material.
Simon mentions that it is 90durometer urethane. I think this is the old red material.
Dayspring mentions it is 98 durometer, but does not list urethane. Based on the conversation and mentioning that it was around cup. It sounds like this is the new white style reg seat.

I did see reference to the white reg seats being made in europe and that John Sosta may have done some of the testing on them. I sent John a message today and hopefully he will follow up with some info. Have not heard from him yet.


There is a bunch of talk about the issues being that the original red reg seats did not have holes punched in the center and how that may have caused issues as well as the cone shape in the center not matching the reg piston sealing surface and as a result they changed the design some.

I have attached pics of the single 4.5k reg seat i have.

https://i.imgur.com/NqPMf0v.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/uOJG02I.jpg

[Tunaman]

The average Joe could not change one of these correctly if you didnt know what you were doing. The reg piston bends very easily if you dont install this reg seat correctly. They were VERY hard.

[captian pinky]

The average Joe could not change one of these correctly if you didnt know what you were doing. The reg piston bends very easily if you dont install this reg seat correctly. They were VERY hard.

Sounds like the correct way to install them is to put the reg seat in the 2 halves and drive the piston through the center with the adjustment screw.

honestly i'm more concerned about the removal than the installation, but i guess it could be cut off.

[Tunaman]

Sounds like the correct way to install them is to put the reg seat in the 2 halves and drive the piston through the center with the adjustment screw.

honestly i'm more concerned about the removal than the installation, but i guess it could be cut off.

You are correct in the assy instructions. To remove the old one I take a 1/8" T handle allen wrench and push down on the piston until it is flush with the reg seat, then switch to the 3/32" allen wrench. Do not try to pull it off as it wont come off and you will bend the pin.

[captian pinky]

You are correct in the assy instructions. To remove the old one I take a 1/8" T handle allen wrench and push down on the piston until it is flush with the reg seat, then switch to the 3/32" allen wrench. Do not try to pull it off as it wont come off and you will bend the pin.

Noted, Thanks.

Do you happen to have any info on the actual material that was used?

[Tunaman]

I do not know what it was made of. I am pretty sure they came from Germany. The secret to these lasting was to filter the air going into the regulator, and not take the 2 halves apart until something fails. Just like a regular Automag, the 2 halves will never go back in the same spot.

[captian pinky]

Anyone happen to do any digging into the material?
anyone happen to have a bad one? maybe we can send it off to be tested for hardness and material makeup?

[luke]

What do the two surfaces that need sealed look like? Any chance there's a CAD drawing of the reg?

[captian pinky]

What do the two surfaces that need sealed look like? Any chance there's a CAD drawing of the reg?

the base where the seat sits is flat like a typical classic valve reg seat. The reg pin that seals on it is tapered

[luke]

From an engineering perspective, is there a different way to solve the problem?

[captian pinky]

From an engineering perspective, is there a different way to solve the problem?

They are different on the 3k flatlines. They use an oring instead of the urethane disk. My guess is the oring did not hold up as well as 4.5k and TK changed the design.

Generally i think the design is fine and machining a single or multiple casting molds is probably pretty doable. The problem is finding the correct material.

[luke]

If your making them yourself it's not that big of an investment to experiment. ;)

This might get you started
https://www.curbellplastics.com/Research-Solutions/Specialty-Products/Prototyping-and-Tooling/Urethane-Casting-Resins

[captian pinky]

If your making them yourself it's not that big of an investment to experiment. ;)

This might get you started
https://www.curbellplastics.com/Research-Solutions/Specialty-Products/Prototyping-and-Tooling/Urethane-Casting-Resins

Just what i need another project. lol. I will see what i can do about drawing something up.
I wonder if 90 is hard enough though.

[luke]

Think of the big return you will get for your time and effort, lol. :rolleyes:

[luke]

I wonder if 90 is hard enough though.

I would contact the company in the link and talk to one the experts, explain to them what the demands are and see what they recommend.

[shaunyoung000]

I need at least 3 of these, but am happy to invest in more if we need a batch.

[Xmagterror]

Ill probably take the project on when i get done moving the shop. sounds interesting, plus i need a bunch of them too.

[Xmagterror]

Ill probably take the project on when i get done moving the shop. sounds interesting, plus i need a bunch of them too.

Unless someone else is doing it.
Would rather just buy them anyways. Lol

[captian pinky]

Unless someone else is doing it.
Would rather just buy them anyways. Lol

I think everyone would rather just buy them. lol
Let me know how i can help.

[TnDeathInc]

Need 2-3 myself

[luke]

I wonder if you could turn some ptfe on a lathe to make the seals? It's hard but it does have a little give to it.

I have this stuff it's 5/8 diameter
102789

[Xmagterror]

I wonder if you could turn some ptfe on a lathe to make the seals? It's hard but it does have a little give to it.

I have this stuff it's 5/8 diameter
102789

Im not sure. That stuff is like cutting jello.
Maybe with special super sharp tools and a collet setup.
I've got some of that material here too

[luke]

I've machined a lot of it will great success ;)

[going_home]

I guess this needed but I never saw the draw of these seeing there is no degas option....

[Tunaman]

I guess this needed but I never saw the draw of these seeing there is no degas option....
We ran them for years by just using a Pro Connect to release. It is still a great regulator.

[splyncryth]

I have access to a XRD machine. If someone can provide me with a dictionary of compound ratios per value of hardness of all potential material the reg seat could be made of then I can determine what material and how hard it is. Problem is grease and oil and other contaminants will show up too.