Ebay totally sucks. Be careful

[Tunaman]

They are now sending your info to the IRS for any sales over 600 bucks. You must provide a social security number or you dont get paid. They are charging final value fees that now include shipping and tax(which the buyer pays). So 12.55% +30 cents plus you have to report it on your federal return and state return so I figure add 30% at least to your asking price. 119 dollars plus is what they charged me on an 850 dollar sale. Not worth it if you ask me.

[nak81783]

I wondered what someone on another forum was talking about when he mentioned an IRS tax. I'm curious, is this for all sellers or just businesses?

[dstud2000]

Get ready for it to hit PayPal too


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[Tunaman]

Get ready for it to hit PayPal too


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes. All sellers and not just one item either...all of your sales combined over 600 will get reported. Charge accordingly. And stop voting Democrat if you do.

[scottieb]

Man, that is steep!

Time to revert to old school money orders or cashiers checks. Do your business on the message boards or FB and privately handle everything.

[dstud2000]

I wonder if that will hit Craigslist


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[Tunaman]

I wonder if that will hit Craigslist


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkProbably so. They are trying anything they can to steal more money from us taxpayers so they can give it to illegals and pay for the new wall around Bidens delaware house.

[BigEvil]

This will be the end of Ebay and paypal

Support the parallel economy.

[knownothingmags]

This will be the end of Ebay and paypal

Support the parallel economy.

good,
time to buy puts on paypal

[maniacmechanic]

I remember forums where you could BST with folks ya trusted , didn't need PP or ebay
The only way around it is F & F and cash

[captian pinky]

to be clear it is more than just ebay. The banks are also required to report deposits over 600 if i am not mistaken.
This will also happen to paypal and venmo for purchases. I expect it will happen to all electronic money transfers.

[rawbutter]

This isn't really new, although the threshold now is much lower than it used to be. You were always supposed to report sales like this on your taxes. If you've never done it before, you might have been breaking the law. Oops.

The eBay change makes it easier to do this, honestly. I used to keep track of all this on a spreadsheet, and sometimes I would forget stuff. It will be nice to have someone else keeping track of it.

The good news is that you only owe taxes on profit, not sales (even though all sales over $600 have to be reported). If you bought a marker a few years ago for $600 and then sold it for $500 this year, you won't owe taxes on that. If, however, you've been making your own parts to sell, or you're buying wholesale and then reselling to a store, that's different. You're making profit on that, which is income, and so it's taxable. Because it's income.

So, all you have to do is keep track of how much you paid for stuff. Once you plug in those numbers while doing your taxes, chances are you'll owe no additional taxes, or very little. I've made a few thousand dollars making SPAR valves over the last few years, for instance, and I paid less than $100 in taxes for all that once I deducted all my costs for raw materials and whatnot. Considering all the money I've made, that seems more than fair to me.

(By the way, if you're scared of giving eBay your social security number because someone might hack into their files and steal you information, you should really set up a credit freeze (https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/finance/how-to-freeze-credit) with the major credit reporting agencies. This is a little bit of a hassle. It takes some time to set it all up since you have to do it with each of the three big credit bureaus. But it is free, and once it's all set up you really have complete peace of mind. I did it a few years ago when there was that huge Experian hack, and I've never regretted it.)

[pimped mag 01]

This isn't really new, although the threshold now is much lower than it used to be. You were always supposed to report sales like this on your taxes. If you've never done it before, you might have been breaking the law. Oops.

The eBay change makes it easier to do this, honestly. I used to keep track of all this on a spreadsheet, and sometimes I would forget stuff. It will be nice to have someone else keeping track of it.

The good news is that you only owe taxes on profit, not sales (even though all sales over $600 have to be reported). If you bought a marker a few years ago for $600 and then sold it for $500 this year, you won't owe taxes on that. If, however, you've been making your own parts to sell, or you're buying wholesale and then reselling to a store, that's different. You're making profit on that, which is income, and so it's taxable. Because it's income.

So, all you have to do is keep track of how much you paid for stuff. Once you plug in those numbers while doing your taxes, chances are you'll owe no additional taxes, or very little. I've made a few thousand dollars making SPAR valves over the last few years, for instance, and I paid less than $100 in taxes for all that once I deducted all my costs for raw materials and whatnot. Considering all the money I've made, that seems more than fair to me.

(By the way, if you're scared of giving eBay your social security number because someone might hack into their files and steal you information, you should really set up a credit freeze (https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/finance/how-to-freeze-credit) with the major credit reporting agencies. This is a little bit of a hassle. It takes some time to set it all up since you have to do it with each of the three big credit bureaus. But it is free, and once it's all set up you really have complete peace of mind. I did it a few years ago when there was that huge Experian hack, and I've never regretted it.)

How is lowering the threshold from $20,000 to $600 a good thing? Truly spoken like a lifelong state employee. Also explain to me why you're paying tax on something that was already taxed once when it was new. Anyone else that uses eBay try private messaging the seller and see if you can do a cash sale outside of eBay to work around it.

Govern me harder daddy

[maniacmechanic]

Another instance of the Govt turnin the common man into a criminal
The IRS is the most feared of law enforcement agencys , they don't need warrants to shut down bank accounts , you are automatically Guilty , it's up to you to Prove your innocents

[Xyxyll]

How is lowering the threshold from $20,000 to $600 a good thing? Truly spoken like a lifelong state employee. Also explain to me why you're paying tax on something that was already taxed once when it was new. Anyone else that uses eBay try private messaging the seller and see if you can do a cash sale outside of eBay to work around it.

Govern me harder daddy

No one's paying more tax than they owe with this change. The tax rules are literally the same. It just requires you to keep better books, which is, let's be honest, extremely annoying for a hobby and frankly is targeting the wrong people. If the govt wants to collect more income taxes, they should audit bigger companies, not mow down the little guys.

[pimped mag 01]

No one's paying more tax than they owe with this change. The tax rules are literally the same. It just requires you to keep better books, which is, let's be honest, extremely annoying for a hobby and frankly is targeting the wrong people. If the govt wants to collect more income taxes, they should audit bigger companies, not mow down the little guys.

I agree 1,000%. Stop war on the middle and lower class, and go after the scumbags, especially all of the insider trading politicians and the rest the real criminals. I can't speak for other states, but if you're in self-employed in New Jersey and you're honest you'll go broke within a year.

PS, I know you're technically not paying more in tax. I was just making fun of our ridiculous tax code. For example you buy a new car and you pay tax on it but then when you sell that car to another person that person also pays tax on it. I'm just simply saying I don't understand how you could tax something that's already been taxed once. Department of redundancy department :)

[Xyxyll]

I agree 1,000%. Stop war on the middle and lower class, and go after the scumbags, especially all of the insider trading politicians and the rest the real criminals. I can't speak for other states, but if you're in self-employed in New Jersey and you're honest you'll go broke within a year.

PS, I know you're technically not paying more in tax. I was just making fun of our ridiculous tax code. For example you buy a new car and you pay tax on it but then when you sell that car to another person that person also pays tax on it. I'm just simply saying I don't understand how you could tax something that's already been taxed once. Department of redundancy department :)

Sales tax is double taxation, though I guess if they got rid of it, we'd just be paying more in state income taxes. Those that buy less stuff would be carrying the tax burden of big spenders.

Sales tax on second hand goods though is crooked.

[pimped mag 01]

Sales tax is double taxation, though I guess if they got rid of it, we'd just be paying more in state income taxes. Those that buy less stuff would be carrying the tax burden of big spenders.

Sales tax on second hand goods though is crooked.

That's the biggest problem I have with it. Not so much myself because I mainly use eBay for purchasing but what about the smaller people on Etsy, eBay or any site like similar that flip items to make their living. I understand going after multi-billion dollar corporations but when you go after Sally homemaker for selling her crafts online and lowering the threshold by such a degree it really speaks volumes in my opinion.

[Xyxyll]

That's the biggest problem I have with it. Not so much myself because I mainly use eBay for purchasing but what about the smaller people on Etsy, eBay or any site like similar that flip items to make their living. I understand going after multi-billion dollar corporations but when you go after Sally homemaker for selling her crafts online and lowering the threshold by such a degree it really speaks volumes in my opinion.

Sadly we're not going to see tax relief for those folks by either party.

[pimped mag 01]

I know and I agree. I was black pilled a long time ago but a boy can dream I guess haha

-Brett-

[rawbutter]

How is lowering the threshold from $20,000 to $600 a good thing?

I never said that it was.


That's the biggest problem I have with it. Not so much myself because I mainly use eBay for purchasing but what about the smaller people on Etsy, eBay or any site like similar that flip items to make their living.

If you're flipping things to make a living, that's income. It doesn't matter if it's on eBay or Etsy or a garage sale. It's still income if you're selling stuff for more than you paid for it. It's also still income even if you're not the primary breadwinner in the family.

Again, just keep your receipts. When you report this extra income on your taxes (from selling a marker, for instance), you will also be able to report the expenses (from buying said marker, for instance). Doesn't matter if the buying and selling didn't happen in the same year. Most of the time they cancel each other out.

[going_home]

I stopped selling on eBay 15+ years ago.

But eBay's my preferred purchase spot.

I don't do Amazon.

Selling, Craigslist or PBN.....

:hail:

[cougar20th]

Its really nothing new. Massachusetts(who would have guessed) has had the 600$ thing for several years now if not close to a decade. I luckily moved out before. But got to deal with it because I used to ship things to the office in mass.

They are really just finally forcing people into reporting their income. Those rules haven't changes. Just nobody was doing it.

[wetwrks]

If I bought something new...I paid taxes on it. The government does not deserve taxes on it when I sell it. And If I bought something used...they got their taxes when the seller bought it.

[Tunaman]

People were selling things for 1.00 then adding the shipping for 799.00 to keep the final value fee low. Ebay stopped this by including shipping charges in their final value fees. The point I was trying to make is that if you add up the 12.55%+.30 that they charge and add shipping into the final value it no longer is any kind of good deal. Add about 20% to your total you want to get out of it.

[Tunaman]

If I bought something new...I paid taxes on it. The government does not deserve taxes on it when I sell it. And If I bought something used...they got their taxes when the seller bought it.

I agree. I wish it worked like that.

[rawbutter]

People were selling things for 1.00 then adding the shipping for 799.00 to keep the final value fee low. Ebay stopped this by including shipping charges in their final value fees. The point I was trying to make is that if you add up the 12.55%+.30 that they charge and add shipping into the final value it no longer is any kind of good deal. Add about 20% to your total you want to get out of it.


I do get what you're saying, and I agree with you. It definitely sucks. I used to always assume I'd lose about 10% on eBay. Thanks for doing the math and updating those numbers for all of us. It sucks you happened to learn the hard way.

I wonder if eBay is doing this to discourage people from using it like a store front. eBay was originally designed to be an online yard sale, where people got rid of stuff they didn't need anymore (and didn't expect to make much profit on). But gradually it turned into another serious marketplace like Amazon.

Really makes me wonder how many people have used eBay in the past just because the site didn't report this income before. How many people were using the site to help them commit tax fraud? eBay makes billions of dollars every year just from their fees. That probably means that the people selling there have probably sold trillions of dollars worth of goods every year. If most of them weren't bothering to report that income, that's a LOT of lost tax revenue.

Still, it does suck for the little guys like us. I also mostly stopped using eBay about two years ago, for the record, for the same reasons you all described. I still use it occasionally for "yard sale" type items that I don't care how much money I get for it, but for paintball guns, I sell those on Facebook or the forums.

[RossT]

If I bought something new...I paid taxes on it. The government does not deserve taxes on it when I sell it. And If I bought something used...they got their taxes when the seller bought it.

I'm a lifelong Republican and about an economically libertarian as they come, but I'm also a Certified Public Accountant and Lawyer (JD with Certificate in Taxation). I see first hand that people will cheat the system when given the opportunity. This is a good change. It does not increase anyone's tax burden, unless you were already evading taxes. I work a W-2 job [lawyer for Government; don't shoot me], but I also do taxes on the side for friends and family. Guess what? I keep a set of books and report all the money I receive, even cash, and sign the returns as a paid preparer.

If you buy something new and use it, typically it is worth less when you sell it, and when Sales Price < Basis in Item = no income tax. The government does not care one bit about these people, and the law is not attempting to make them pay taxes.

The target of this rule is obviously resellers, flippers, and people that make things for resale. All of these activities are business activities, and keeping an accurate set of books is appropriate.

I don't have stats to prove this, but I would bet everything I own that income tax evasion is rampant among shoe resellers, game console resellers, and those thrift store flippers and Pokemon traders that clog up my Reels feed. Keep in mind that a lot of these people are not only evading income tax, they are evading Soc. Security, Medicare, and Unemployment taxes because these activities are their business not a hobby.

Requiring online marketplaces, like Ebay and StockX, to report sales numbers only levels the playing field. The government is going to get its money from someone, unless we can keep running multi trillion dollar deficits without the world collapsing on itself.

[Tunaman]

I'm a lifelong Republican and about an economically libertarian as they come, but I'm also a Certified Public Accountant and Lawyer (JD with Certificate in Taxation). I see first hand that people will cheat the system when given the opportunity. This is a good change. It does not increase anyone's tax burden, unless you were already evading taxes. I work a W-2 job [lawyer for Government; don't shoot me], but I also do taxes on the side for friends and family. Guess what? I keep a set of books and report all the money I receive, even cash, and sign the returns as a paid preparer.

If you buy something new and use it, typically it is worth less when you sell it, and when Sales Price < Basis in Item = no income tax. The government does not care one bit about these people, and the law is not attempting to make them pay taxes.

The target of this rule is obviously resellers, flippers, and people that make things for resale. All of these activities are business activities, and keeping an accurate set of books is appropriate.

I don't have stats to prove this, but I would bet everything I own that income tax evasion is rampant among shoe resellers, game console resellers, and those thrift store flippers and Pokemon traders that clog up my Reels feed. Keep in mind that a lot of these people are not only evading income tax, they are evading Soc. Security, Medicare, and Unemployment taxes because these activities are their business not a hobby.

Requiring online marketplaces, like Ebay and StockX, to report sales numbers only levels the playing field. The government is going to get its money from someone, unless we can keep running multi trillion dollar deficits without the world collapsing on itself.If the government would stop waste and fraud with the money it already receives from us then maybe we all would be paying about 1/2 of what we pay now. I have no sympathy for this government which is growing larger and more abusive every day. You voted for it...I did not. I think we have something like 9000 government agencies now. They are largest employer in the US. That needs to change. That is not sitting well with me.

[nak81783]

Seems like the trend is toward modern monetary theory, so why does the government need to tax at all? Oh wait, 40 year high inflation. Oops...

[Nobody]

If the government would stop waste and fraud with the money it already receives from us then maybe we all would be paying about 1/2 of what we pay now. I have no sympathy for this government which is growing larger and more abusive every day. You voted for it...I did not. I think we have something like 9000 government agencies now. They are largest employer in the US. That needs to change. That is not sitting well with me.

Yes, so let us go collect taxes on some IDK, fraudulent wannabe billionaire that should be paying more than he is and remove the grift from his practices.

You see dear Tuna, when you have things, you need to regulate them, so they run correctly and you have people there to do those agencies. So, you have to have people there do said jobs, thus there work helps the economy, and they pay taxes on their income; it is the corcle of life. So when you have questions, or need enforcement, you have that ability to serve the people.

Gutting the government means that you are stripping any meaning, any need and any necessity of that, when the poopy hits the fan, there is something there to help, not be a meme for why government is bad.

[dstud2000]

Yes, so let us go collect taxes on some IDK, fraudulent wannabe billionaire that should be paying more than he is and remove the grift from his practices.

You see dear Tuna, when you have things, you need to regulate them, so they run correctly and you have people there to do those agencies. So, you have to have people there do said jobs, thus there work helps the economy, and they pay taxes on their income; it is the corcle of life. So when you have questions, or need enforcement, you have that ability to serve the people.

Gutting the government means that you are stripping any meaning, any need and any necessity of that, when the poopy hits the fan, there is something there to help, not be a meme for why government is bad.

Nobody, this is theft plain and simple. It’s the same as the mafia saying you need to pay them for protection from the mafia or you business is going to get busted up, just with the government it is called taxation and not solicitation as it would be with anyone else.


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[maniacmechanic]

if the government would stop waste and fraud with the money it already receives from us then maybe we all would be paying about 1/2 of what we pay now. I have no sympathy for this government which is growing larger and more abusive every day. You voted for it...i did not. I think we have something like 9000 government agencies now. They are largest employer in the us. That needs to change. That is not sitting well with me.

yep

[Nobody]

Nobody, this is theft plain and simple. It’s the same as the mafia saying you need to pay them for protection from the mafia or you business is going to get busted up, just with the government it is called taxation and not solicitation as it would be with anyone else.


Actually, no. It is called "terms & service". To use ebay, you must adhere to their rules and if they wish to include taxation, so be it. As stated before, it was there before, just never enforced much. So if you don't want to pay it, don't use the service. That is your right.

This has nothing to do with the mafia, as the government isn't profiting off you, it uses that money to provide for it's citizens.

While no one likes to pay taxes, too kany forget what those taxes provide, like paying for police, fire and other emergency personnel, the roads you travel on, the military, etc and so forth. Only criminals don't pay their taxes.

[RossT]

Actually, no. It is called "terms & service". To use ebay, you must adhere to their rules and if they wish to include taxation, so be it. As stated before, it was there before, just never enforced much. So if you don't want to pay it, don't use the service. That is your right.

This has nothing to do with the mafia, as the government isn't profiting off you, it uses that money to provide for it's citizens.

While no one likes to pay taxes, too kany forget what those taxes provide, like paying for police, fire and other emergency personnel, the roads you travel on, the military, etc and so forth. Only criminals don't pay their taxes.

I don't even think it necessary to extend the discussion to those other services provided by taxation.

Selling on eBay requires a functional internet, a postal service, roads [DOT], bridges, FAA, and airports. I would also list the banking system, Treasury, and capital markets [SEC], but I doubt anyone opposed to paying tax would agree that those are necessary. They would probably also agree that crypto can replace the dollar and that crypto gains should not be taxable even if converted back into USD.

eBay reporting requirements are still much less burdensome than being an independent contractor or W-2 employee, and once again, it does not increase anyone's tax burden.

I'll be teaching a zoom class next week for anyone that wants to learn how to assign inventory cost to the parts after you buy a whole gun and part it out.

And to really poke the bear, we will be doing a survey to see how many people with side businesses are paying inventory tax.

[dstud2000]

Actually, no. It is called "terms & service". To use ebay, you must adhere to their rules and if they wish to include taxation, so be it. As stated before, it was there before, just never enforced much. So if you don't want to pay it, don't use the service. That is your right.

This has nothing to do with the mafia, as the government isn't profiting off you, it uses that money to provide for it's citizens.

While no one likes to pay taxes, too kany forget what those taxes provide, like paying for police, fire and other emergency personnel, the roads you travel on, the military, etc and so forth. Only criminals don't pay their taxes.

As far as eBay goes I was not referring to eBay but the reporting rule in general. Secondly as far as paying taxes, yes never said we shouldn’t pay taxes, a certain amount to cover defense, borders, and the common needs of the citizenry. Unfortunately this HAS been abused, so yes those in and connected to government HAVE been profiting off my taxes. And actually yes taxation is the same as solicitation except taxation is supposed to be kept reasonable and held to account which it is not. So yes that makes it no different than a legalization of mafia like tactics. You pay or we take it away. Don’t forget a big chunk of the reason for our war of independence was over taxation without representation. Many, many folks are feeling as if they are not being adequately represented in government and if history has proven anything when you mess with peoples pocket books too much there is bound to be a backlash.


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[Nobody]

As far as eBay goes I was not referring to eBay but the reporting rule in general. Secondly as far as paying taxes, yes never said we shouldn’t pay taxes, a certain amount to cover defense, borders, and the common needs of the citizenry. Unfortunately this HAS been abused, so yes those in and connected to government HAVE been profiting off my taxes. And actually yes taxation is the same as solicitation except taxation is supposed to be kept reasonable and held to account which it is not. So yes that makes it no different than a legalization of mafia like tactics. You pay or we take it away. Don’t forget a big chunk of the reason for our war of independence was over taxation without representation. Many, many folks are feeling as if they are not being adequately represented in government and if history has proven anything when you mess with peoples pocket books too much there is bound to be a backlash.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yup, i kinda knew someone would go there, "no taxation, without representation ". Yet, they know the words, use the words but fail to bring together the 2 points. 1, was the fact that the English Government wanted to pass taxes and dictate to the colonies rules to live by but not allow the colonies the chance to adjust laws for the circumstances of being across the Atlantic. And 2, we, the former colonies did not oppose taxes, merely wanted those taxes to more readily effect the colonies, i.e. if you tax us, then let us see the those taxes at work.

So, in reality, your use of the saying is great for a meme but fails under scrutiny of history and fact. So no, again your idea of anything being "just like" or "no different" is wrong, plain and simple. The laws state that this is legal. Laws are use against those that act in illegal manners and assign recompense(jail, execution, money). While you can sue the government, when they break the laws, just saying so does nothing. If you don't like the people breaking the laws they make, allow corruption & grift and similar; then vote them out of office. Make change and don't support those that continue going against your ideals of how the government is run/running.

[rawbutter]

Many, many folks are feeling as if they are not being adequately represented in government...

I know it feels that way sometimes, but it's not true.

When Trump was elected, I didn't feel like I was being represented in the US government. But the fact of the matter was yes, most of my values and ideas were still there. They were represented by people like Romney and Kaine and literally hundreds of other senators and congressmen and various other staffers. Were my values and beliefs "winning" at that time? No. But that doesn't mean they weren't represented.

Representation goes both ways, after all. I'm represented in government, but then again other people who disagree with me are also represented in government. That means that nobody is truly happy with the outcome all the time. That's just the way it is. Sometimes we compromise. Sometimes my side wins. Sometimes your side wins. That's democracy.

And yes, I agree that there is corruption in government. Many of our tax dollars are wasted or even stolen. But I don't think the answer to that corruption is to get rid of the government, or even specific government agencies. The answer is to replace the people who are corrupt and to pass laws that make it harder for people in power to abuse the system.

[Tunaman]

I know it feels that way sometimes, but it's not true.

When Trump was elected, I didn't feel like I was being represented in the US government. But the fact of the matter was yes, most of my values and ideas were still there. They were represented by people like Romney and Kaine and literally hundreds of other senators and congressmen and various other staffers. Were my values and beliefs "winning" at that time? No. But that doesn't mean they weren't represented.

Representation goes both ways, after all. I'm represented in government, but then again other people who disagree with me are also represented in government. That means that nobody is truly happy with the outcome all the time. That's just the way it is. Sometimes we compromise. Sometimes my side wins. Sometimes your side wins. That's democracy.

And yes, I agree that there is corruption in government. Many of our tax dollars are wasted or even stolen. But I don't think the answer to that corruption is to get rid of the government, or even specific government agencies. The answer is to replace the people who are corrupt and to pass laws that make it harder for people in power to abuse the system.I feel the same way about Biden. He let 2 million illegal aliens into this country that we are paying for. Maybe you should work a few more hours for free to help pay for them. I will not.

[BigEvil]

I feel the same way about Biden. He let 2 million illegal aliens into this country that we are paying for. Maybe you should work a few more hours for free to help pay for them. I will not.

The lefty idiots are out in force again. I guess the economy and every other aspect of the country is blossoming under this administration..

[Nobody]

The lefty idiots are out in force again. I guess the economy and every other aspect of the country is blossoming under this administration..

And by that, you mean that more people are getting jobs, the economy is growing, infrastructure is being addressed, then yes. It is good to see a president actually doing something for the country instead of himself and his lackeys.

[going_home]

And by that, you mean that more people are getting jobs, the economy is growing, infrastructure is being addressed, then yes. It is good to see a president actually doing something for the country instead of himself and his lackeys.

LOL

Now that was hilarious.

Rose colored glasses for sure.


:rolf:

[dstud2000]

Yup, i kinda knew someone would go there, "no taxation, without representation ". Yet, they know the words, use the words but fail to bring together the 2 points. 1, was the fact that the English Government wanted to pass taxes and dictate to the colonies rules to live by but not allow the colonies the chance to adjust laws for the circumstances of being across the Atlantic. And 2, we, the former colonies did not oppose taxes, merely wanted those taxes to more readily effect the colonies, i.e. if you tax us, then let us see the those taxes at work.

So, in reality, your use of the saying is great for a meme but fails under scrutiny of history and fact. So no, again your idea of anything being "just like" or "no different" is wrong, plain and simple. The laws state that this is legal. Laws are use against those that act in illegal manners and assign recompense(jail, execution, money). While you can sue the government, when they break the laws, just saying so does nothing. If you don't like the people breaking the laws they make, allow corruption & grift and similar; then vote them out of office. Make change and don't support those that continue going against your ideals of how the government is run/running.

Again you do not read my entire statement. I said “One” of the reasons, please read the Declaration of Independence as it lays out an entire list of grievances. And yes that amounted to taxation without representation. The British viewed colonist at the time as second class citizens and they were not afforded representation in the House of Commons, they understood the need for taxes but just wanted a voice of representation in the House of Commons to help decide what those taxes were and how to be used. So again you are only partially right. I never said the laws were illegal but that said laws are not always agreed upon, hence why we have entire branch of government in the courts to determine and interpret what the laws are and their Constitutionality in regards to our founding documents and other judicial precedence. We have a two party system that affords us the ability to elect representatives of either persuasion some times one party is in control, others it is the other party, and finally sometimes it is divided too evenly and becomes gridlocked. What I might believe is too much taxes you may view as not enough taxes. That is fine, fortunately we do not live in a democracy but a democratic republic as well as a federalist form of government. So I can choose to live in an area where the laws maybe different from where you live. That’s fine. Each state, each local municipality is a microcosm of representative government that can afford us to live in the way we see fit. If you want to be a jackass and a ****ing moron, I will say God Bless You and have a nice day because that is your right as an American. If I want to believe taxation above a certain level is nothing more than legalized theft then that is my ****ing right and I will vote according to what I learn and study about the candidates who wish for me to vote for them into office.


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[dstud2000]

I know it feels that way sometimes, but it's not true.

When Trump was elected, I didn't feel like I was being represented in the US government. But the fact of the matter was yes, most of my values and ideas were still there. They were represented by people like Romney and Kaine and literally hundreds of other senators and congressmen and various other staffers. Were my values and beliefs "winning" at that time? No. But that doesn't mean they weren't represented.

Representation goes both ways, after all. I'm represented in government, but then again other people who disagree with me are also represented in government. That means that nobody is truly happy with the outcome all the time. That's just the way it is. Sometimes we compromise. Sometimes my side wins. Sometimes your side wins. That's democracy.

And yes, I agree that there is corruption in government. Many of our tax dollars are wasted or even stolen. But I don't think the answer to that corruption is to get rid of the government, or even specific government agencies. The answer is to replace the people who are corrupt and to pass laws that make it harder for people in power to abuse the system.

Rawbutter this goes beyond current politics of the day, and I never said any agency or institutions should be torn down or taken away. Yes sometimes one ideology wins for a time and yes the other ideology wins, and sometimes we are grid locked. That is fully understandable and acceptable. Hence the reason behind the founders creating a federalist form of government so that things that affect people most are handled and represented at the local level first and foremost and then move up the chain. This allows the max amount of liberty as people can move into regions of the country that best fits their needs and ideals. What works in Texas obviously may not work in New York yet we all stand together as one when needed. To express one’s view and to say I feel that my beliefs are not being represented is not abnormal, every 2, 4, and 6 years we hold elections to try and remake our government to hopefully best represent us at all levels. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t, sometimes it makes us happy and other times it may make us angry. Yet we keep trying and that’s the point.


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[Tunaman]

And by that, you mean that more people are getting jobs, the economy is growing, infrastructure is being addressed, then yes. It is good to see a president actually doing something for the country instead of himself and his lackeys.Who are you getting that info from now that Rachel Madcow is off the air?

[rawbutter]

Rawbutter this goes beyond current politics of the day, and I never said any agency or institutions should be torn down or taken away.

You're right. Sorry about that.

I agree with most of the other things you're saying, by the way. I don't really think we're that far off.

[rawbutter]

And by that, you mean that more people are getting jobs, the economy is growing, infrastructure is being addressed, then yes. It is good to see a president actually doing something for the country instead of himself and his lackeys.Who are you getting that info from now that Rachel Madcow is off the air?

Let's not go down that road again. We all know that you don't trust any of the liberal news sources, and vice versa. Let's try to keep this thread focused on taxes so it doesn't get shut down like all the others.

[rawbutter]

...taxation is the same as solicitation except taxation is supposed to be kept reasonable and held to account which it is not. That makes it no different than a legalization of mafia-like tactics. You pay or we take it away.

Where did you get this from?

I'm not trying to be snarky. It's just that this is the third time I've heard this line from conservatives in the last year or so. I was myself a conservative for 20 years before switching, and I never heard that line during all that time. So, I'm honestly just intellectually curious where it's coming from...who said it...etc.

[BigEvil]

LOL

Now that was hilarious.

Rose colored glasses for sure.


:rolf:

Some people are really that effen stupid

[Bunny]

Go figure that I decided to do ebay selling for the first time ever last year... I was wondering why I was getting hit with so much tax BS.

[dstud2000]

You're right. Sorry about that.

I agree with most of the other things you're saying, by the way. I don't really think we're that far off.

No need to be sorry brother. Healthy debate is needed more than ever not just toxic tribalism.


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[dstud2000]

Where did you get this from?

I'm not trying to be snarky. It's just that this is the third time I've heard this line from conservatives in the last year or so. I was myself a conservative for 20 years before switching, and I never heard that line during all that time. So, I'm honestly just intellectually curious where it's coming from...who said it...etc.

That is a very, very old point of view. It’s been around since the passing of the 16th amendment in 1909 and it’s ratification in 1913 I believe it was. Basically ever since the federal government gave itself the power to levy personal income tax.


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[dstud2000]

Where did you get this from?

I'm not trying to be snarky. It's just that this is the third time I've heard this line from conservatives in the last year or so. I was myself a conservative for 20 years before switching, and I never heard that line during all that time. So, I'm honestly just intellectually curious where it's coming from...who said it...etc.

You did the opposite of me, through college and university I was democrat then after I got into the workforce I switched to republican.


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[Nobody]

Who are you getting that info from now that Rachel Madcow is off the air?

I get my news from sources that do not make up lies(foxnews reporting people died in Canada during the protest), get fixated on non-issue(Hilary Clinton running again for president), blowing up things out of proportion(the Durham report), and aren't spreading pro-russian propaganda(basically, the opinion hours).

[pimped mag 01]

:PopCorn:

[Tunaman]

I get my news from sources that do not make up lies(foxnews reporting people died in Canada during the protest), get fixated on non-issue(Hilary Clinton running again for president), blowing up things out of proportion(the Durham report), and aren't spreading pro-russian propaganda(basically, the opinion hours).
We will see about that Mr Know it all...Just keep in mind that John Durham has NEVER lost a case. Will you listen when other people start getting indicted or just blow that off too?. You need to get out more from under that bridge. :tard:

[pimped mag 01]

We will see about that Mr Know it all...Just keep in mind that John Durham has NEVER lost a case. Will you listen when other people start getting indicted or just blow that off too?. You need to get out more from under that bridge. :tard:

I think my favorite part of him is that he condescends to people constantly and then doesn't realize why people are hostile back to him. It's like watching a monkey press the button over and over again that shocks him versus the other one that gives him a treat.

-Brett-

[Nobody]

We will see about that Mr Know it all...Just keep in mind that John Durham has NEVER lost a case. Will you listen when other people start getting indicted or just blow that off too?. You need to get out more from under that bridge. :tard:

Lol, there is no case. If not, when when he released his reports, indictments would have surely followed. And in fact, Durham himself has distanced himself from the report, meaning that the right is blowing up the verbage(and yes, it could be read either way, for and against) just because the right has it out for Hilary because they can not do anything but finger point at all the bad people when they should be looking in the mirror.

And to correct you, i work on top of the bridge, looking down at those that try to make fun of me. Also, to further correct you, since you seem to love Rachel Maddow, though she is not doing her broadcasts, the writers who work for her are still writing for her hour. So, different person, same opinion.

[Nobody]

I think my favorite part of him is that he condescends to people constantly and then doesn't realize why people are hostile back to him. It's like watching a monkey press the button over and over again that shocks him versus the other one that gives him a treat.

-Brett-

Well, if having a different opinion is condensation, then i guess you have never had an original though. I guess you only like to follow what others say, stay in line ,never make waves. It is easy to follow the masses but it takes courage to walk the path least travelled. So, be original, come up with something new.

[pimped mag 01]

Well, if having a different opinion is condensation, then i guess you have never had an original though. I guess you only like to follow what others say, stay in line ,never make waves. It is easy to follow the masses but it takes courage to walk the path least travelled. So, be original, come up with something new.

Big words coming from someone who follows the status quo. :rofl:

102953

[going_home]

Well, if having a different opinion is condensation, then i guess you have never had an original though. I guess you only like to follow what others say, stay in line ,never make waves. It is easy to follow the masses but it takes courage to walk the path least travelled. So, be original, come up with something new.






Condensation = water

:rolf:

[pimped mag 01]

Condensation = water

:rolf:

Well they are watered down arguments:drool:

[bound for glory]

I seem to do ok buying Blood Bowl miniatures...

[going_home]

I don't sell anything on eBay but I do buy a lot.

I don't buy anything from Amazon ever.