***SERIOUS CURSING ISSUE AND BANS GIVEN all read!***

[cphilip]

We had an incident this morning in Friendly Corner. Some of the guys posted song lyrics. It seem's they chose the dirtiest ones they knew. A lot of them are long time posters here on AO so they knew better and for that reason we are not going to be as easy on them. We expect them to set an example. I have polled the other Mods and Webby too as to how they felt I should handle this. So I am not making this decision in a vacuum. We all are in agreement that something has to be done.

Here is a quote from Webby: "What part of NO CUSSING and DO NOT TRY TO CIRCUMVENT THE CUSS FILTERS is confusing to you? This is absolutely stupid and be glad cphilip is cleaning up your mess and not me or Rob.

Most of you who were involved are long time posters and should know better. And for that you are going to be made an example of for this brief moment of stupidity.

So here is the verdict:

FIVE DAY BANS TO:

Thor the Mighty
Snooky
InfinatyBPS
MAGS own YOU

You may ask for reinstatment on 3/10/02 but its up to you to initiate it. Email Webby on that date if you want it done.


WARNING:
obsolete898

you almost got it too but you are new so we think you were misslead by the older members. So you are off with a warning. One further transgression and you will suffer a ban. By the way I had you for three days and Army saved you...

also same Warnings to:

MagMan5446
Snewk

[Heisman]

good call phil, those that have done that should be ashamed, they know better, but it was good to go easy on the new guys

[striker]

I totally agree with your course of action. Thanks for cleaning up the mess. :)

[Paintballer86]

Way to lay down the law cphil. Good Job :)

[theraidenproject]

why do i miss EVERY SINGLE controversy! ;) i missed the superbolt liar, this, etc. Oh well, maybe I shoud start my own... just kidding. I agree abou taking it easy on the new guys. I know I didnt read the rules when i first got here :)

[Hysperion]

so they posted some bad song lyrics...noone had to read them and it's not like you can't find them littered all over the internet....my guess is that they won't want to come back here after a ban for that and I don't blame them....I know I wouldn't....

[boss_automager]

I think tou made the right call but it might be a little harsh to totally ban them but could job on cleaning up the mess cphillip:D










:cool: :D AO member 4 life :cool: :D
members:2 if you want to join head over to the Friendly corner

[shartley]

so they posted some bad song lyrics...noone had to read them and it's not like you can't find them littered all over the internet....my guess is that they won't want to come back here after a ban for that and I don't blame them....I know I wouldn't....
This is not the rest of the internet.. this is the house of AO. Would you like prostitutes and crack addicts setting up shop in your living room? Heck, you can find them all over any major city.. right?

I am sure they will be back (the offenders). They simply pushed the limits until they broke, which has been an ongoing thing. I have seen the rules being pushed farther and farther as the days go on. This was simply enforcing rules that everyone has known about since the beginning. Want to blame anyone, blame those who broke the rules.

I am not upset at them, but I applaud the Mods for doing their job. No laws were laid down (as another member stated), they were already there…. They were only ENFORCED. ;)

[Webmaster]

hey look at this - I am in total agreement with shartly here - mark that in your calender ;o)

We have some real basic and common sense rules here. And as chilip showed - we are not totally heartless with our dishing out the law (we were very leniant with the newer member)

You can find cussing, gore, porn, hate groups, wild and wierd fetishes, as well as uncensored lyrics to your favorite song on the internet.

If any of those things are what you are into, then by all means, open up google and let the adventure begin!

We are not, have never been, and never will be any of those things. We are a family orientated community. Alot of us are adults and we have heard and say every word in the book. That doesnt mean its welcome here!

We welcome back these banned members after their time is served - but our actions are to show that we will not tolorate blatent breaking of the rules. Repeat offenders will be permenantly banned.

[Butterfingers]

Wow, thats the first time that shartly said somthing that the general consensus agrees with... :)

Could it be? That wet towel shartley have been dragging around is starting to dry up? :)

Only time will tell stay tuned!

[Cha0tic]

well said shartley and webby. IMO, 5 days is goin easy on them, depending on the lyrics...

and like they said, this isn't the rest of the internet. this site is a community with people of ALL ages. i know people on these forums with kids that post here. what do they think of their children reading that crap?

[MajorDamage]

Way to go Mods, I was wondering if some of the rules would end up being enforced because I had noticed some people dodging the cuss filter the last couple of months, but it seemed like the mods were getting on them after a lil' while, and it seemed correct(lol, that makes no sence, unless you are me)

ENDO!

[cooldude]

ok

[shartley]

Now I am going to add to the "wetness"....

I for one am ashamed that the Babe Of The Day thread has gotten so bad.

The last few posts are WAY beyond any sort of common sense standards and shows a total lack of class and ability to use good (heck.. ANY) judgment. I feel it goes against the nature of AO, and shows how a little fun can get way out of hand if let run wild for the sake of not wanting to upset members.

You want AO to go turn into Ghetto Town.... good start! This is not what I thought AO was about, and I am very disappointed.

Sorry… just had to vent.. but I hope others feel this way too.

[Butterfingers]

Yeah, I agree with you shartley. That last group of posts were a bit tasteless, for a pg-13 environment...

Im not under PG and im certainly not 13 so just give me a few minutes I gotta go save some images first... :)

Yep, shartley threw himself in the dryer... :)

[MagMan5446]

Whoooooooo, the song quotes weren't anywhere near the babe of the day thread. I've never gone there b4 because of my 56k, but I went to the last page to see what's up...hmmm.


Oh BTW, sorry about some of those quotes that I put in there...most of them were clean, but a couple shouldn't of been there.

[epterry]

clap,clap,clap,clap,clap,clap,clap,clap, standsup ,clap,clap,clap,clap,clap,clap,clap,clap,clap,clap ,clap,clap,clap,clap,clap,clap,clap,clap,clap,clap ,clap,clap,clap:D

[soilent green]

I am not really easily offended by anything but I think that due to the nature of this forum and for the sake of giving paintball a good name this was the right action to take I have found myself useing the S word from time to time but only if I'm really mad I need to start thinking about that as all of us do I see that when we hear some thing like that columbine paintball site we get really mad and I find my self wanting to say things much worse than **** this is a good reminder for all of us to start watching our language

[Russ]

Good job cphillip and the rest of the "mod squad" (wow, I should be banned for saying that :o )

5 days is a light sentence, IMO. Keep up the good work.

Russ

[Mango]

Yes Excellent job cphilip, webby, and the rest of the Mods!! I totally agree with Shartley and Webby also.

It's good to know that people are looking out for the best interest of AO. THIS IS WHY WE ARE THE BEST OWNERS GROUP KNOWN TO MAN!! :)

[ThePatriot]

Everyone is so easily offended nowadays it sickens me, you all saw Army's bill of rights, right? One of them was you dont have the right to not be offended....people i hear more curses walking through the hallway at school for 2 minutes than i have EVER heard on AO. I am sure all of you have to, and have used these words before, i just dont see how a word itself can be harmful or offensive. Perhaps the meaning behind the word, but a simple word shouldnt offend anyone. I think banning people for 5 days because they cursed, considering the first amendment(in the case of americans) grants freedom of speech, isnt a right thing to do. Some will say that this is a private server etc... but i am pretty sure Bill Clinton established that the internet itself, and any place on it is considered a public place, now no one is going to arrest you for this, or even do anything about it, it is ur forum, and u are moderating it, but just think. Think, you might actually be breaking one's constitutional rights, by banning them.

*edit* just thought of example. For instance to join a club, a member is required to be the leader's slave for a week(all hypothetical here.) Both parties might agree, and it might be a private thing, but none the less it still breaks an amendment and can get you into trouble...

[headcase]

Sorry, but if a person agrees to the terms of service, they have basicly agreed to give up their right to free speech while on this site.

Trust me, if peoples rights were being broken by being moderated, companies like AOL would be paying out lots of money in lawsuits. But just like here, they have a TOS, and if you agree to it, you give up certain parts of your rights.

[wimag]

so it is deemed offensive only if the moderators deem it offensive??? what a crock. bunch of hypocrites.
apparently half naked chicks is okay? hey i dont mind, but if i keep hearing about this being a family friendly environment then they come from some pretty strange families.
Everyone has the right to be offended by something, but heaven forbid you say something about it if not in good with the mods.
my personal beef is Arman's "insert Hitler dancing here" sig. that majorly offends me, but it's okay he is a punk and knows no better from behind a computer screen.

[TheBigRaguPB4L]

ok first off, i come to AO and expect the mature level that AO has established that no other forum seems to keep. i have noticed quite a few people slipping things through and it seemed a few people have been testing on what they could get away with. i respect the moderator's decisions and and their responsibility to keep this the respectable place that we've all come to expect of AO. that being said, comes my second point.

i am a vulger person. depending on who i'm in the presence of, i curse pretty bad. it's something i've been trying to control, but not really very successfully. as i siad, if i'm around an adult, or someone really young, i can control it. but someone around my age or people that curse just as bad, i don't even try. the point of trying to keep it clean here is to try and show some class, which i agree with. trying to watch what we say around kids, i don't know. i know 9 year olds that could stip the paint off a wall with their mouth. parents think that they try to censor their kids to harsh language and such, they're not exposed to it. i don't know about them or any of you, but i know when i was young, everybody knew every word in the book. now again i realize that parents have to try and control their kids with this, but to think that by doing so, their kids don't behave this way is just rediculous to me. i think some adults are naive as to their childrens' tendencies when they aren't around. and i find it fairly hyporcritical that adults will swear up and down and then expect their kids not to. "i'm an adult, you're not". being adult gives you permision to be an idiot? i guess so. "do as i say, not do as i do", i always hated that.

now, i don't think that just because we all swear and have always been around it, that it should be allowed. i just wanted to bring up the point that sometimes kids can be worse than any adult. alot of parents are extremely naive about their kids and a lot of things. i guess it's kind of hard to see these things when you're not a kid anymore.

my last point is that a 5 day ban is really a nuisance at best. so you can't come on here for 5 days. bid deal. i think if you wanted to prove a point, take away their posting privaleges for a month or something like that. i don't know, that's just me.

[Butterfingers]

Originally posted by wimag
so it is deemed offensive only if the moderators deem it offensive??? what a crock. bunch of hypocrites.
apparently half naked chicks is okay? hey i dont mind, but if i keep hearing about this being a family friendly environment then they come from some pretty strange families.
Everyone has the right to be offended by something, but heaven forbid you say something about it if not in good with the mods.
my personal beef is Arman's "insert Hitler dancing here" sig. that majorly offends me, but it's okay he is a punk and knows no better from behind a computer screen.

No it is not "AO constitutional" to put simply.

The terms of service on this forum is a binding contract. Cussing and circumventing filters is exclusively prohibited. It is the moderators job to enforce the rules.

There is a rule against nudity but most of the posts in the girls thread are clothed. And thus not considered nudity.

Moderation of this forum is not just in the moderators discresion. The rules are like a constitution they must uphold no more no less.

Unfortuneately, There is no rule against dancing hitlers.

Heve you read my sig? I break NO rules and still mangaged to be somewhat vulgar and offensive :) The moderators have not given me any flak yet. Because everything is within the legalities of the written rules.

There is no rule against vulgar inuendo...

The only time I have gotten flak is when I tried to circumvent the cuss filters with alternate words that were in the place of the quotes in my sig. That was a blatant violation of the rules and I was wrong.

Simply put they enforce what is written...

[wimag]

butterfingers: no i didnt read your sig. too longwinded.
so circumventing the cuss filter is a no-no but circumventing the no-nudity "rule" by posting pics of chicks with their nipples clearly showing through is okay???
that is crap, and you can argue, describe or soap box it any way you care to but it is technically the same issue.
pretty much the same issue of enforcement right?? dont think so, hence the reference to being hypocrites.
no wonder more women do not frequent this site, total lack of respect for what most want.

[tremis]

For everybody here that is offended by the cursing or the scantily clad women, I have some advice: Turn off your computer, turn off your TV and don't leave your house. And for heavens sake, don't go to a paintball field. You may be offended. Rules are rules though, if you dont like the rules here, you are free to leave. Your freedom of speech doesn't apply. It is not your 'right' to come here. therefore the owners have the 'right' to make you agree to whatever they want in order to be here. If Bill Klinton says that the internet is public space, how come there are sights that require you to pay them to visit? Simple, a private citizen owns this page, and its theirs to do with as they please. I'm still suprised that people are 'offended' by mere words or pictures of people. I myself view it as a sign of weakness, that something so simple has caused mental harm. I understand not wanting children to see it, there your kids you can decide what they do and don't see. But to claim that it has caused you distress is astonishing. Believe it or not the worlds a pretty screwed up place, there a lot worse things going on in real life than here on internet land. If this bothers you, how do you cope with real life?

Tremis

[headcase]

Why can't people see it................it's not about being offended, they broke the rules they agreed to. Thats it.

I'm sure on one here can show me something that would offend me, but I understand why the members were baned and I'm in complete agreement with the mods who choose to do so.

[Cha0tic]

why can't some of you people understand. you are at automags.org, not the rest of the world. this is a privetly owned place. you do what the mods, tom, and webby want you to do. there is no free speech, freedom this or that, or whatever. like i said before, but i'm sure noone of you read the earlier posts, there are kids of ALL ages here. i know some of the parents here that have kids on these forums. i'm sure they do not like their children seeing swearing, and naked women, although there is alot of it in the world today.


phil, miscue, army, black, i think you should post your final comments and close this thread....

[Vegeta]

Originally posted by Hysperion
so they posted some bad song lyrics...noone had to read them and it's not like you can't find them littered all over the internet....my guess is that they won't want to come back here after a ban for that and I don't blame them....I know I wouldn't....

No. You are not right. I learn quickly the cursing issues when I came here. On other forums I used to visit, we would circumvent the filters all the time (yes, even hte mods did it). On these boards I have learned not to. We DO NOT need cursing to get ANY points across. We all communicate fine without them, don't we? Harsh language may start out funny, but is more and more people use it, then that cuases more flames, and AO doesn't need any flames at all. I am actually suprised by the lack of off color and flaming content here on AO. On certain old boards I used to visit, and moderate on, (non-paintball) there was at least one new flame I had to deal with everyday. Not suprising, it all had to do with the same few people. Yes, I do make some off hand remarks now and then, but I don't come up with goofy ways to get my words by the filters. If I type one, the filters take care of it... and star the letters out. The moderators don't like that, so sometimes they edit the stars (which can be rather funny). I'm suprised at how well the mods handle these situations. When I was a mod, I would let soem things slide, and if htey turned ugly (we had people mass-flaming this one guy, calling him hte worst things, mostly sexual content) I would try my best to stop it. We even implemented mroe harsh filter to stop the massive code implementing to get the words past. Then, when people found out they couldn't use tags to trick the filters, they used PICTURES. thats right. They were that bent on cursing they would type rude remarks into pictures and post them on the forum. Well I didn't stand well on that. My most used words were "Topic Closed".

It's nice to see that most of us do fine without cursing here.

[RSUAVE911]

If you really want to punish them you should ban them from the party, but that would be really messed up.

Anyways, I do not think it was right anyway for the mods to ban them, first off there is cursing all over this board and people trying to get around the filters all the time. So why is everyone neglecting the fact that this happens often without consequence. So I am not really sure why we are making them the examples. Like shartley said the picture thread has gotten out of hand. So should we ban every single member whos picture is distasteful. Its really not up to me because this is more of a dictatorship than a democracy. Although, the members do have a voice in this, the mods get the last words.


Do not get me wrong I dont think they should of posted it but I do not think this was the way to fix this problem, rather than immediately ban them you really should of warned them and warned AO.

This was in the rules:

"Generally we will give you a warning - maybe two. After that you will be banned."

This was in General Forums FAQ:

"Why was I Banned?
Probably for repeatedly breaking one of the rules on the right. Moderators/Administrators may also Ban you for disrupting the forum. >> Top"



AGAIN NO WARNING or by knowledge any repeated offense. JUST MY 2 CENTS!

:) :) :)

[TheBigRaguPB4L]

ummmmmmmm, lets see, more than likely, they were warned. how many times have you seen this

*do not circumvent the filters*

i see it all the time. i'm willing to bet if you were to search all of thier posts, you'd find one or two of these things.

another point is the fact that those that were banned were frequent AO visitors and should have known better. to be so deliberate and post up some lyrics which i can imagine were pretty bad, demands action. the guys that were new were given a warning. although the rules are posted and some warnings are clearly visible, they might not have known what were acceptable and what not. but those that have been here a while and knew full well what is and isn't allowed, i think they're getting out fairly easy.

[ThePatriot]

I have a question, who here has never cursed before, or is offended by a curse word? I bet none of you havent used one before, and i bet none of you are offended by it. As for kids seeing it.....if you think they are gonna learn all their bad stuff from AO you need to get a life. I have known every curse there is since at least 3rd grade, and nothing is going to stop it. The other thing i dont get it, every adult i know has used a curse or uses them frequently, what is so damned bad about them?? It is more of a way to get a point across better, which better gets the point across people? I am mad, or IM *EDIT* Sorry, just because you are mad, doesn't give you any leeway to use bad language. Army MAD!! perhaps in other situations, its nice, or THAT THING IS THE *EDIT* See above. "Curse" words are actually only used to get a point across, and last thing, go turn on your TV to any channel and watch a TV PG rated show, count the number of "curses" in there, then look at AO and think, which has the bigger swearing issue....

[Butterfingers]

Its very simple its not what the moderators should do its what they are required to do.

They are required to enforce the written rules.

In no written rules are broken there is no problem

If the written rules are broken they must take actions thich are stated in the membership agreement.

[HoppysMag]

its plain and simple. DONT SWEAR! we are more civillized than that. we are better then most forums. They agreed to the Terms of Usage. They know not to swear, and yet they did. Free speach has nothing to do with it. If you think it does you are wrong... What happens if you stand up at work and call your boss a (Insert bad word here). Youd get fired. And its the same way here. you signed, or rather Clicked the "I Agree" button. The mods do a good job. and were fair to the new guy...

I personaly have the mouth of a drunken sailor. but i leave that on the school bus and the field entrance. I NEVER swear at the field when its open play. Just like i dont swear in class or in my house. Theres no need to swear in front of people who probibly dont want to hear/Read it. At my field there are always little kids, wether they be the bosses sons, or players. And i only swear when im around my friends who know me.

My 2 cents
---------------------------HOPPY----------------------------

[soilent green]

under most circumstances I would agree that this is bull but we are trying to keep a respectful forum here and we are an influence on the paintball world so lets be a role model not a house for curseing we want to show the people that don't like pball that it is a great sport and thier are responseable people playing it we should remember this when we hold a marker and when we talk of the sport

[RSUAVE911]

Yeah I agree that we all should not curse on this site, simply because there is a time a place for it and on AO you just do not do that. But, if we are going to follow the rules why dont we follow them fully.

My post above explains my whole thoughts, I dont feel like going throught it all again.



BIGRAUL,

Do you know that those specific people were warned or just other AO members in general.

[shartley]

How about this? You don’t agree with the rules? LEAVE AO!!!!!

Everyone knows the rules. When you created your account you did so stating you will follow the rules.. PERIOD. So complaining now that it is “unjust”, or “not fair”, or “unconstitutional” (which I might add shows lack of either age, education, or basic common sense.. or all of the above) because clearly posted and personally acknowledged rules are being enforced is a bit late.

But guess what? You can still remedy that problem. As in my third sentence.. LEAVE AO. As I see it, anyone who has a problem with not swearing would not be a great loss to AO anyway.

I swear each and every day. But there is a time and place for everything, and by being a member of AO, you agreed that on the AO Forums it is neither the time nor place for swearing, as well as many other things that have gotten WAY out of hand lately.

It is very hard to pull in the reigns when a wild horse gets to running…. This is what happened here. Sure, it is easy to maintain control when done with consistency and before things get out of hand. But it is clear that this was not done.

So if the Moderators did ANYTHING wrong, it was allowing all the small infractions to continue with virtually no punishment for the actions. So you can blame them for being too nice, or lenient… NOT for being mean now. They were forced to enforce the rules in a way that will draw attention to the problem…. And by those who broke the rules. After all, if no rules were broken, they could not enforce the rule.. right?

If you are one of the wild horses, or a friend of theirs.. too darn bad. (See…. You CAN use verbiage that gets your point across as strongly as swearing.) I personally so not see how ANY of the rules are that darn hard to follow.. and heck, they STILL leave much room for being creative… bending the rules so to speak.

I for one am through with this topic. I would not waste my time in the real world bantering with an ignorant kid, or belligerent adult, and I will not do so here either.

(Note: I am not upset. See, you can convey feelings of anger with words without breaking any rules. The meanings of my post however, are as I intended them to be. Oh, and I agree... ALL rules should be enforced at ALL times... this showed how selective enforcement can backfire. And everyone who knows me, knows I am a stickler for rules..... they can be your chains, or the things that set you free.)

[ThePatriot]

Shartley, i never said i disagreed with anything. But all that aside i really dont appreciate being called an uneducated, young moron. Leave the personal opinions at the door when you enter AO, no flaming, you agreed to it.

Also shartley on a side note, you really have to step off your high horse, you enforce rules, and state your opinion, thats fine. The problem is you have such a holier than thou aura to you, every time i read part of ur post(i can never read it all) I get sick, hearing you rant about how great you are and how much better you are then all of us. I am not alone with this feeling, i know at least 4 other lifetime AO'ers who share my opinions, and they are the only 4 i have ever asked....

I am also quite aware i am contradicting myself...but you started it(which you have quite the history of doing too..)

[frgood]

Originally posted by ThePatriot
I have a question, who here has never cursed before, or is offended by a curse word? I bet none of you havent used one before, and i bet none of you are offended by it. As for kids seeing it.....if you think they are gonna learn all their bad stuff from AO you need to get a life. I have known every curse there is since at least 3rd grade, and nothing is going to stop it. The other thing i dont get it, every adult i know has used a curse or uses them frequently, what is so damned bad about them?? It is more of a way to get a point across better, which better gets the point across people? I am mad, or IM F'ING MAD!! perhaps in other situations, its nice, or THAT THING IS THE S***. "Curse" words are actually only used to get a point across, and last thing, go turn on your TV to any channel and watch a TV PG rated show, count the number of "curses" in there, then look at AO and think, which has the bigger swearing issue....

Wow, everyone does it, so it is good.
you'r arguement bores me and is of no consequence. If you do not know simple right and wrong, there is no point listening to anything you might say.

[frgood]

Originally posted by RSUAVE911
Yeah I agree that we all should not curse on this site, simply because there is a time a place for it and on AO you just do not do that. But, if we are going to follow the rules why dont we follow them fully.


yeah good idea, why don't you help monitor the volume. I'm sure the moderators work very hard at trying to get it all. However, some are going to slip through.
what will happen is if it gets too much to track (ie., the majority of people start violating), then watch the site shut down since too many people are abusing the [/B]privilege[/B].
This board is not a right. Just like driving.

[BlackVCG]

This is sad. I'm appalled at how some people have acted about this issue. All I can say is if you have a problem with this, go somewhere else. Our job is to enforce the rules of this site plain and simple. The Mods didn't write the rules and regardless of whether we agree with them, it's our job to enforce them. Deal with it.