filming paintball questions

[magc68]

ive been doing a lot of filming of our games and such. well im using a 5 year old sony handycam. it has fast shutter rate and is a 8mm. now it does the job really well and captures everything but i wanna get a new camera.

what specs and features do i want in a camera to film paintball with the best results.

keep in mind i dont want some professional camera but i dont want a crappy one either. ~$500 range. what should i look for?

im looking at either miniDV or Hi8.

also what video hardware software package should i look into. i was looking into the Dazzel full package (input, output hardware and full editing software)

[cphilip]

Well the Boss bought one of those Sony Digital ones. I think it was like $800 but i think they have come down a bit lately. He is not in today so I can't check the model right now. Very nice and small. Palm size almost. And runs real long on a small battery. Has a "Sports" setting that minimizes jerky movements and such. Very nice. I taped the kids Football games with it and the quality was realy very nice. Good thing about it was it was digital so it transfers right to Computer, CD or even DVD on the wifes Power Mac and you can snap still's right out of them too. Or you can go straight to VCR with em as well. Nice set up. It was a SOny I am pretty sure of that but I will look tomorrow at it for you.

[synreal]

My vote is for a digital camcorder, makes it easier to hook up to a pc and edit your footage. If you shop around, you should be able to find something in the Sony TRV (Digital8) series around $500.

Like Phil said, make sure there is a "Fast Shutter" or "Sports" setting on the camera, otherwise you will get a blurry image.

[cphilip]

You want DV if you can get it.

[LaW]

definately dv, check ebay though if you like ebay because I picked up an 800 dollar dv cam (800 at best buy) for only 350 brand new on ebay...

[Webmaster]

No video experiance... lots of photography though if you need it...

My friend does have a degree in film and he uses a Digital Sony camera and can do all the editing on his computer with out generation loss!

[Paintballer86]

Originally posted by cphilip
You want DV if you can get it.
No cphil, the type of format that you want is MINI DV. DV cameras will end up running you about $8,000.00 so I dont thing that you want one of those. We have a TV Studio in my school and I produce 4 TV shows that make it on to cable tv. I also anchor quite a few that make it onto cable also. (if fact, I taped one this afternoon.)
If you are looking for an EXCELLENT camera, Look into Cannon's GL-1, running about $3,000.00 Dollars, they will run about $500.00-$800.00 used. If you are looking for another EXCELLENT (in fact, best MINI DV camera in the world [and it is sitting in my room right now :D ]) is the Cannon XL-1. Most widely used among professional film makers. As for editing equipment, I suggest Edit Plus 3.1. Or Adobe, trinity, or Avid.
The Adobe will run about $1000.00 dollars, but you can download it for free from a site similar to morpheus or Limewire. All the others are not available for home use, but you school can buy them for about $4000.00. But I doubt they will so, adobe is your best shot.

Hope that helped, PM me if you have any questions.

[2000Sabre]

If you're upgrading your equipment you defintely want to go digial video. Much easier to edit and bring down to your computer. I have a JVC DVM90. Very small unit but I think it's outside your price range. Not sure what's available in that price range for digital but I'm sure you can find something decent.

As far as software, look into Adobe Premier 6.0. I think it's the best software out there. Not the easiest to use but has the features that you want. You can get Adobe Premier with some firewire video capture cards. Not sure if you need a card or not but Pinacle Systems cards come bundled with Adobe as well as other add-ons. LOL and make sure you post some of your movies so we can all check them out.

[Hasty8]

Mag - listen to paintballer. He definately has the 411.

Mini DV is perfect for your use. While I was at TNN we actually used a Sony TRV and FCP (Final Cut Pro) to shoot several commercials that went staringht to air.

I think the XL-1 is a bit much but what I relly like about it is that the widen and tighten function also works the zoom lens. If I'm not mistaken the mic also works in conjuction with the zoom.

As for the software I am highly against useing priated software. I just got the most recent form of Adobe Priemier off of Ebay for 130, S&H included.

With Mini DV you can shoot your footage, dump it straight to your high storage capacity drive, fudge around with it and then remaster it right back to the Mini DV which you can then send to a house to convert over to DigiBeta (Which is want we broadcasted from). The most excellent thing about this setup? The footage stays digital, never analog (provided u use a firewire connection and not the RCA cables.)

For data storage I highly recommend the Maxtor 1394 external persoanl storgage drive. You can daisy chain over 250 of these drives off of one single 1394 card.

I currently have 6 80 gig drives and will probably be getting another in a few months.

1394 = IEEE 1394 (PC term) or Firewire (Mac term) or iLink (sony term).

As for using Adobe it's so simple. MAke small clips and you can literally drop them into your time frame view, stip either audio or video and just mess around with all sorts of stuff.

And get After Effects (drools) oh m god you can do such cool stuff with that!

[Hasty8]

Canon XL-1 camera - very expensive but just as tasty!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1338895448

[LaW]

Originally posted by Hasty8
Canon XL-1 camera - very expensive but just as tasty!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1338895448

imho overated for the price you pay.

[Hasty8]

Overrated?

I would say that the next best thing above this camera is a Pro-sumer level Beta Camera.

Canon shot commercials with the XL-1 and people in the industry couldn't even tell that it was Mini DV and not Film.

The thing to realize here is that when you watch a movie on magnetic tape the picture seems flat. There is no really depth to the image.

When you watch a film (35mm let's say) there is actual depth in the picture.

The amazing thing is that some of these high end digital mediums give an almost like film depth to the images that they capture.

[LaW]

Is there a version below it that looks similar? I might be mistaking the model for something else i've seen

[Paintballer86]

Originally posted by LaW
Is there a version below it that looks similar? I might be mistaking the model for something else i've seen Yeas the GL-1 Is The same except a scaled down model. Both are excellent models.

Hasty8 We were just using the Sony FCP today in the studio. Our school just purcahced a new Tripod with a seat that has a mechanical motor in it and you can mechanaclly rotate, and pan left and right, truck in and out and all that jazz for the smoothest shot. It is pretty cool.

The XL-1 is very light also, weighing a mere 1-2 pounds w/o batterey. that is EXTREMLEY light for a camera of it's size, and it is about 25 inches long. Consitering that our shoulder mount Panisonic SVHS camera's weigh in at a mere 38.65 lbs :rolleyes: Now I know how the cameramen/women feel for feild reporters on the news.

[Paintballer86]

http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/Paintballer86/miniDV.jpg
For all of you wondering here is what a mini DV looks like.

And here it is compared to a regular VHShttp://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/Paintballer86/miniDVVHS.jpg

[speedballbanks]

yeah get a mini dv that is what my cousin has he has a sony trv17 he bought it in new york right near the towers and got it for like 650 (don't ask) it is a mini dv digital zoom picture effects and he has it on a mac and he has final cut pro and i-movie and they are great editing progs and it is super fast when you want to import the movies onto the comp.

[magc68]

thanks for info guys but r u way out of my leauge. im not looking into producing anything just for fun but i want some good stuff. waht u listed is nice stuff but too far for me yet. as i said im looking in the $500 range for a camcorder. mini dv looks like the way to go so i will definatly look into them. i will be using ebay for this since i can get a better deal. with this what do u guys recommend.

[Hasty8]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1338231024

magc68. this camera should be perfect for your needs. 400 bucks. Then get this:

http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=50055383

This was my starter setup for video editing. IT comes with a 1394 card and the Studio DV software is pretty good. It should be more than adequate for your needs.

The last thing you will need is a large storage facility and for that I highly recommed this drive:

http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=289694

Remember, you will need 50 MB for every 20 minutes of video captured at preview quality (4 GB for every 20 minutes of finished movie). I say go with the external drive because you can daisy chain these puppys. Actually, I didn't know they had 160 gig, I have 6 80 gig. I think I might get two of the 160's when I get my tax refund.

*edit - The pinnacle software does not require you to download the entire film to disk. IT will just take the entire tape in preview mode, which is of a much lower quality and will sort of put over it a timecode. You can then mess around with the film and edit it in the software.

Then when you are done you can have the software make the final copy. IT rereads the entire film but only takes those sections that you put into your time frame. It chooses the right pieces because of the timecode that it initially stuck over the video at first reading.

I only recommend getting the drive because I like using a lot of my work as stock footage for my other projects. - end edit*

The cool thing about this is that with this setup you could easily start a minor video service like I did. I sold my services to those families that cound't really afford a high priced video crew for weddings and other special occasions. I have two or three friends who help me out and the family's pay about 300 bucks for a truly professional quality film.

I just did my grandparetnts 50th anniversary film and it came out great.

[Gup44]

Ask Brad from 720Video... they did the supertour video. They do paintball video. He'd probably be able to tell you whats the best. They do excellent work.

www.720video.com (http://www.720video.com)

[Hasty8]

Gup. He has a limited budget. He can't afford the best.

BEsides, 720 is a semi professional or for all I know a totally professional studio. I'm willing to bet they use camera in the 6 - 12,000 dollar range.

[Gup44]

Brad is a good guy and very knowledgeable, he'll be able to steer you in the right direction in your price range!! He's got a nice emag too!! He..he..

-Gup

[oldsoldier]

Ok, I really dont know too much ab out filming, but I do know bargains. I went to Circuit City to look for a cheaqp cam. Picked up a Canon es75 for $200. Came with a case and tripod. Has a few cool features, like sports which keeps it from blurring, stuff like that. I picked it up for the same reason. IT is hi8. Cool thing is, guy who sold it to me also plays. So, picked up a player too! (he shoots a spyder, but no one is perfect).

[Paintballer86]

Originally posted by Hasty8
BEsides, 720 is a semi professional or for all I know a totally professional studio. I'm willing to bet they use camera in the 6 - 12,000 dollar range.
they use XL-1's :)

[BradPalooza]

Hi all,
720 currently has 2 GL-1's and an XL-1 with another XL-1 in our future. The GL-1 has image quality comparable to the XL-1, makes a smaller target, and has decent image stabilization. The XL-1 has MUCH better image stabilization and audio capabilities. Both, by the way, use optical image stabilization instead of digital (image quality gets degraded when it is manipulated digitally).

I can't comment on bargain camera's other than to try looking at Circuit City for their open box buys. You get a good price and you can easily take it back if it doesn't suit your needs.

Whatever you get, have it added to your/your parents homeowners insurance if you aren't using it for a business. It adds about $10 per year and covers you if it gets broken, damaged, lost, stolen, etc. It does NOT cover regular mechanical failure though.

For editing, If you go to www.adstech.com you can get a firewire card and a FULL version of Adobe Premiere for $299. An excellent buy if you consider the retail price of Premiere alone.

If you have any questions, let me know...
-Brad

[cphilip]

Ha ha ha ha ha - $299!....well I got FireWire and iMovie already standard built inot in the Power MAC! In fact its in all the iMacs too!

Sorry! Another shamless anti Windows post. Don't you just hate those? ;) I am using Windows right now as a matter of fact. But use the Macs for graphics and video stuff when I can.

Anyway... Mini DV or DV...what ever...Digital is what I was getting at. I guess I was refering to Mini at least I think it is from the pictures of the size of the cartridge posted here. I still can't get to the Sony yet though to see the model #.

[mrhooie]

I'll throw my 2cents in here

miniDV - best way to go - 8mm is all but dead

I see a lot of people doing the sony mantra.. Check out Panasonics line of miniDV camcorders.. More camera for the money (and lighter)

I sell both, and (in canada) a $1200 panasonic is worth about a $1500 Sony)

[magc68]

lots of info... thanks guys. when i get closer to actually purchasing a camera i will pm a few of u who seem to understand what im looking for. thanks again.

i should be looking at a mid -high level miniDV and adobe software correct?

[martlet1]

I found the cheapest place to buy a new camera was www.profeel.com. I bought my SONY TRV DV for about $1000.oo and it rocks. But the price has come down to around 600 bucks on it. If you look at circuit city, their prices are about 400 bucks higher than on the internet. Profeel shipped next day air for free, and the camera rocks. I take video constantly at the field and it lets you adjust the light settings or it does it automatically.
I think they are out of new york city. I cant remember.