I noticed something

[Nitroduck]

I hope you dont take this as a flame...But.

Ever notice the quality of barrels they put on stock guns at price ranges?

Matrix - CP Barrel

Bob Long Intimidator - 2-piece Bob Long barrel

Bushmaster 2000 - 2 piece ICD barrel

Impulse - Boss Progressive

STO Autococker - J&J 2 piece

Shocker - All American

Automag RTP - Crown Point

Notice how the $400-$700 range has great barrels?

Then you look at the $900+ range

Excalibur - Javelin

Angel - Jacko

Emag - Crown point

Notice that in the $900+ Range the barrels arent any better, and in some cases, a worse barrel than a cheaper gun?

Something I just noticed.

[blembiggity]

that is probably due to the fact that the manufacturer knows that if u are spending that much money on a gun that u are going to put the barrel of your choice on it. i know if i made a gun i would put a piece of junk on it because i know that people will not keep it. its all in the money making scheme.

[MikeCouves]

Originally posted by blembiggity
that is probably due to the fact that the manufacturer knows that if u are spending that much money on a gun that u are going to put the barrel of your choice on it. i know if i made a gun i would put a piece of junk on it because i know that people will not keep it. its all in the money making scheme.

True. Manufacturers used to use fixed (doesn't come off) barrels that were very high quality, and worked very well. But since barrel manufacturers came onto the scence, they didn't really take as much time making their barrel because the marker owner would buy and aftermarket one anyway, even it was good.

[shartley]

that is probably due to the fact that the manufacturer knows that if u are spending that much money on a gun that u are going to put the barrel of your choice on it. i know if i made a gun i would put a piece of junk on it because i know that people will not keep it. its all in the money making scheme.
This may be true, or it may not be… but I see a serious flaw in that thinking. If they knew you would put on another barrel, why even put ANY barrel on it? Wouldn’t they be losing money by doing so? It costs nothing to put NO barrel on, but costs money putting even a crappy one on.

Also, think of it like this… it is like going to a car lot and seeing all the $10,000 cars with $400 each tires on them, but then seeing all the $35,000+ cars have $50 tires on them. (or you can pump it up to the high end sports cars and it would work even better since it is a closer analogy)

-Salesman “Well, you see… the manufacturer knows that since you are spending so much money on your vehicle, you will put on whatever choice of tire you want… so they didn’t bother giving you anything worthwhile.”

Hogwash. LOL There is no logical reason to put a crappy barrel on a good marker except that the manufacturer didn’t care to put on a good barrel. I see a problem (sort of) with this as well. It just does not make any sense. And if they ARE doing it for that reason, what does that say about the barrel OR the company. Kind of puts them in a difficult spot either way in my book. ;)

In MY opinion, if you are going to pay that much money for your Marker (or ANY equipment/vehicle, etc.) all the things it comes with should be as good of quality as the actual base product. But we see this as not being the case with many things in the paintball industry. I think it is simply because people buy them… it may be right, or it may be wrong… but what other explanation makes logical sense? Of course, just because something is done, does not even mean it is done because it is logical.. does it? ;)

Sorry… just mulling it over in my head… but out loud….

[cphilip]

I think it comes down to your definition of what is a crappy barrel.. ALL of the barrels you listed are fine barrels with the correct match of paint. And they all work fine with a few exceptions that I have heard of where they were miss-made or had a flaw.

Trust me, the stock Emag and RT Pro barrel shoots just fine with the right paint. When I have the right paint I use them all the time. I don't know about the other Marker manufacturers but some of the named barrels I see you imply are "Crappy" I know people who swear by them. I think you are generalizing too much and your list disproves your point...but thats just me.

[paintball8869]

that's why the good ole people at ANS decided not to put a barrel on their gun. The majority of people that buy the Genx3s will be replacing the barrel with a boomstick, CP, or freak, so why put one on?

[Fred]

about CCI Barrels!

The Phantom comes with the arguably the best stock barrel on the market, too bad the Phantom has almost unique (sovereign is close..) barrel threading.

New, the barrels cost less than 40$, are available in different lengths and colors, and the only thing better about the DYEs, Smart Parts, BOAs, Lapcos, etc, is that they look flashier, and might have a smaller sound signature.

The only downside of em, is that the bore is a little big, so tiny paints don't work well.

And, the Phantom costs (new) are between 180 and 320 bucks. How about them apples?

:)

[Nitroduck]

cphillip, I understand your point. However, to me it just seems odd expecially with Emags/RTs and Xcals/Vikings. You're paying $400 more for better stuff, and still include the same barrel with them....I would tend to think that by paying for better equipment, you might as well get a better barrel on it for the money.

[shartley]

I think it comes down to your definition of what is a crappy barrel.. ALL of the barrels you listed are fine barrels with the correct match of paint. And they all work fine with a few exceptions that I have heard of where they were miss-made or had a flaw.
Oh so very true… can’t argue with that. Of course we have also heard arguments that a good solid pvc pipe of the correct size will work just fine as a barrel as well. But I think the point was that when you invest in a top end marker, you really aren’t looking for something that works fine… you are expecting a little bit more, even if it is simply an illusion. ;)

Trust me, the stock Emag and RT Pro barrel shoots just fine with the right paint. When I have the right paint I use them all the time. I don't know about the other Marker manufacturers but some of the named barrels I see you imply are "Crappy" I know people who swear by them. I think you are generalizing too much and your list disproves your point...but thats just me.
And there are people who swear by a lot of things, that in itself does not make them correct, or their statements facts. Look at all the Cocker VS Mag arguments… or what about all the “low end” marker users?

I look around at the pictures posted by Mag owners (of their markers), and sorry to say, I find very few with Crown Points still on them. I do however keep seeing people say (from time to time when the Crown Point topic comes up) that they USE them, or keep them as a backup…. But why do we see so few pictures with them on them? If indeed they were as quality of a barrel as the Marker they came on, you would expect to still see them being used as prolifically as the marker itself…. Or at least I would.

But I agree, “crappy” would depend on one’s definition of what constitutes a crappy barrel. And it seems that by the definition of “it will shoot paint fine if you get the correct paint match” there are few to no “crappy” barrels at all. ;) Of course that would mean that there are the same number of “crappy” paintball markers too…. so why purchase a top-end Marker at all?

I guess it is like what was said… it all depends on what your individual definition of quality and crappy are. ;)
(My head is starting to hurt...... ;););))

[cphilip]

Well you can count me as one that still uses the stock barrel when I can. If the paint fits. If it doesn't I use the Freak to find a size that does. Most change more as a fad or they run into paint that won't fit and mistakenly blame the barrel not the paint size and half of them then go out and buy the wrong barrel anyway. Some get lucky and never learn a darn thing from it. Pure Fad if you ask me. From my experience. Thats all I have to go by. I ahve convinced myself. Don't even care anymore if folks won't believe it. ;)

[Webmaster]

ITS A METAL TUBE - all of those barrls are going to perform very very similarly with the right paint. They are all straight and well honed. The stock Emag barrel works great in my opinion - and I shooot it as often as I shoot after market barrels if the Paint fits.

The only advantage some of the other guns listed have is this: Player mentality.

Player metality is - stock barrels suck. So logically, if the stock barrel is actually a recognizable aftermarket one, then it must be better. AND I save 50-100 bucks by having to run out and by one.

In REALITY - these stock barrels are no worse than any other barrel on the market.

Its all mentality and mind games. Of COURSE if I spend $100 on a barrel it will be better than any stock barrel - dont be stupid! (right? right?)

[cphilip]

Yep exactamundo! And I realy don't bother to stress that much when I got a Boomy (insert your favorite name in here) to sell either! People eat those up.

I like the stock mag barrel when I can find the right paint match as it self clean real well. Not much porting. Try and find an aftermarket wihtout any. Everyone will say "its too loud" or "there is not spin one the ball". Hype I tell ya. Well the quite part is true actually but hey its a trade off realy.

Plus my stock barrel is faded to match too and it is good to look cool right? ;)

[shartley]

I am SO glad that people caught my meanings, and that I was not always saying what it may have LOOKED like at first glance. (And that I was just giving Phil a hard time.. like he has given ME lately.. LOL) :D SO REFRESHING!

I think the keystone to my whole post was the following:

But I think the point was that when you invest in a top end marker, you really aren’t looking for something that works fine… you are expecting a little bit more, even if it is simply an illusion.
(note I highlighted an important part.. ;))

But I still think some people would do well to keep in mind another part of my post, because it hits close to the vest….

But I agree, “crappy” would depend on one’s definition of what constitutes a crappy barrel. And it seems that by the definition of “it will shoot paint fine if you get the correct paint match” there are few to no “crappy” barrels at all. ;) Of course that would mean that there are the same number of “crappy” paintball markers too…. so why purchase a top-end Marker at all?
This may be tongue and cheek… but as with most humor, what makes it so funny is how close to the truth it is. I know WHY folks should (if they can afford it) purchase a top-end Marker, but the arguments we see about them often are as silly as the barrel ones… when you get right down to it.

Good form guys. :D

[nutz]

yo.. u know the crown point really isnt a bad barrel at all...

balls fly pretty straight throught it

[cphilip]

True enough Shartley. Any Marker that works is good enough to do the job. I get taken out by Spyders all the time. And me carrying an Emag with Warp. Why? Because I make a mistake and hang out of the bunker too long or the ball drops down over the top of the bunker on me head. My fault not the Emags. Nor the Spyders for that matter. If I was a better player some of these things would not happen as often. I want and have high level markers because I just love the cool factor of them. And the high tech of them. It's always an ego thing realy. You go through life long enough that you apreciate the finer things in life and realize you only go around once so why not? So you pamper yourself with nice toys. It makes you happy. You don't have to be embarrased about that. Thing that bothers me is this constant "tournament level" comment. What the heck is that. I know a kid who can play with just about anybody with a Sheridan Pump. So does that make a Sheridan Pump a Tourney level marker. OF COURSE IT DOES!....for him. Let's all be truthfull here about why we want high tech high level markers...because they are cool and everybody thinks we are cool to have them. Not a darn thing to be ashamed of to admit that.

[shartley]

Phil... I could not say it better myself! But we have had this same conversation before... just not on the open forums. :)

[cphilip]

And so now the other side of the coin...Hype and such.

Heck we all beg for it realy. We put it down all the time but we openly ask for it. We go out and buy $100 barrels because they are called Boom Sticks or something. Tom is sitting there thinking...well if they want a "tournament level marker" Shoot! I will give them one! And try and make an honest living giving them one of these... whatever it is they want to call it. Heck! He don't care if they call it "the Judy"! He's trying to make a living. Never mind now that he has given them a "Tourney Level" Marker FOR YEARS already. But we want more. Always will. WGP gave em more so why can't Tom they says? So he gives em one. Mind you now it's like anything else, the more complicated you make something the more likely it is to break. But we don't care right? We will just gripe about that later right? ;) So... me like all the other Kids, I want me a "Judy" gun too right? I mean I can't let a bunch of kids have cooler stuff than me right? So same thing with Barrels. The one I got on my "Judy" gun doesn't have a cool name! Why...why... that cannot be!! I gotta have a name to call it!!! I CANNOT say to all my friends (aka Rivals) when they ask me:"what kind of Tourney Level Barrel do you have?" And then me have to say...ummm...errrr...well I just got "the stock". How embarassing!!! (sarcasm a lot right?)

So here is the solution to this whole thing. Yes! like Moses from the mountain I am delivering the answer to you all. (drum roll please)

Tom, you need to name the stock barrel something cool. No...not "the Judy". I mean something real cool. Perhaps have a contest. Have some of them milled to cocker and spyder threads and convince all of them they want one too. Crown Point is not cool enough I guess so we gotta come up with something cooler. And crown point doesn't seem to stick to it. Don't have to change the barrel one little bit. It will evolve into the most accurate thing on earth if it's cool. However you know what I fear...because it came "stock" on the marker...whatever we name it...it will always be ..."the Stock". So just refuse to let anyone have one. Only sell it seperate so they cannot get it right away. Charge more for it so it can retain this new cool name. And therefore it's reputation as being "Tournament Quality" barrel. And then enjoy your week in Aruba on the profits from the hype we asked for. :)

Signed...Judy (aka cphilip)

[Dr.StockClass]

I have to second Fred's post. Before I got my new phantom I was already looking for new barrels and had my eye on a Dye SS because it was quite possibly the "trickest" barrel out there. But the dreams of milling and SS soon faded after I had 3 amazing days out with my "Judy" stock barrel.

Albeit CCI is an exception as almost every stock barrel I've shot has been garbage. Thats also not to say a lot of the aftermarket barrels I've shot have been garbage too.

But it really is amazing how the hype of an aftermarket driven sport can overtake common sense.

[Snooky]

I don't know about jackos on angels but i love my jcko barrel for my mag to pieces. Like it better than my boomy even.

[Kaiser Bob]

Seriously the stock barrel is definitely a mental issue. The shocker for example comes with a barrel that is held in high regard for other markers, but for the shocker the All American is worthless. Ive seen resale values go up 100 dollars for a shocker with a CP barrel just because its not 'stock'. I guarentee you if a mainstream gun came out with boomsticks 'stock', in 2 weeks youd see piles of them on sale online for cheap.