anyone in here familiar with cars?? (eclipse's) help!

[DryIce]

ok
i dont feel like typing this all out
but ill paste it
:)

"Help with Fan Blower Motor (not sure of technical name) and technician."

Ok my family has been taking their cars to a local car "specialist" for quite awhile now and i have always been rather worried about them. Recently my air stopped working, and the fan would not blow any air at all (this was recently after having my timing belt + all other belts replace on the car, and then having to take it back up 2 times because they couldnt get the belts right ).
They called and spoke to my father (im 19, but my father usually deals with most of the car repair matters since the car is in his name) and said that my fan motor had shorted out and would need to be replace. My father told them to go ahead and do it. After he got off the phone with them he told me what they said and i called them back and told them to keep the old motor that they were replacing so I could take a look at it when they were done.

Well today i picked up my car and the bill was a whopping 480 dollars. For the (heres the name of the part on the box) "Fan & motor kit, Heater" Part# MR146946 they charged me 344 dollars and some odd cents. I called up ourisman mitsubishi and asked them how much it would be for the part (local mitsubishi dealer / service place). They said it would be 261 dollars. Now thats QUITE a markup that the local place did on me isnt it? Trust me.. it doesnt stop there.

I knew that the motor took 12v so i took my amp power wire and ground wire and hooked them up to the supposedly shorted out fan and well.. guess what... round and round it went.

I continued to touch and untouch the wires just to make sure that it working wasnt some fluke incident.. and everytime it worked.

Now im not mr.know-it-all when it comes to cars... but wouldnt you think that if they needed to replace the old fan because it "shorted out" that it shouldnt work?

What do you guys think i should do here??
I ghetto rigged a 6volt battery up to it (i know thats not the right voltage but it works for my purposes.. just spins a bit slower) and plan on taking it into their tommorow, placing it on the counter, and flipping the switch and seeing what they say as it spins round and round.

But any help from you guys would be GREATLY appreciated

Also, could someone tell me where this item is located in my car so that i can hook it up in my actual car (with hopefully some ease) as to make sure it works in my car as well... i really dont wanna go up there and have to put my foot in my mouth
thanks
heres a pic of the blower so you guys know what im talking about




http://www.galaxy-pc.com/blower.jpg


if anyone can help
i have posted on some 2gnt boards (eclipse forums) and havent had a response yet

[Exodus]

im not sure where the blower is located on your particular car but quite a few have them just before the fire wall twards the top. now as for the fan and sceming idiots. i would check to make sure all your fuses are good. if not then try re-runing the factory power wires. depending on where you live you might be able to find a buddy that can fix your car instead of the auto shop from hell.
hope this helps some.

GHETTO RIGGING RULZ!!

[DryIce]

problem is
they already fixed it
=(

[Nephlyte]

When it comes to getting my car repaired I have a specific mechanic
I go to if I can't do it myself. They have always worked on my cars and they do a good job.

When it comes to anything that requires replacement parts I always
buy them and bring them to the mechanic. Always saves me money
and they don't mind. Now I unfortunately drive a chrysler but my friend works for the chrysler parts distributor in my area and I get
the parts for near factory prices.

So I would suggest that whenever you need a part replaced call
around to find the cheapest price.

Now as for your fan problem, maybe check some import performance
stores in your area. I've found most to be very helpful.

Also check your area for anybody that drives a modified car, preferably another eclipse owner but even another import owner
may be able to help.

Hope this will be of some help but I'm not to knowledgeable with eclipses.

Nephlyte

Soon to be a proud owner of a '95 Honda Del Sol VTEC,
or a '97 - '01 Honda Prelude. Either I'll be happy.

[XR4]

I've worked in the service departments of several dealers and had a similar situation happen to a customer of mine with a Mercedes 300E.

Fan and motor kit, what else did they replace? Often the blower resistors are located with the motor. I'm not sure about your diamond-star, but sometimes these are replaced together.

For instance, lets say both the motor and resistors are mounted deep in the engine compartment behind the fire wall (like the 300E.) The technician tests the wires someplace else, say the fuse box, and finds an open circuit. Either the motor, resistors, or wiring is bad. You can't test any of the components seperately until you remove them from the car. This could be several hours of labor.

With the 300E, the tech removed the motor and found only the resistors to be faulty. The customer had the option to replace only the resistors, or both, and he made the smart decision and bought both. With a ten year old car, the motor may not out last the resistors for long. Since its no more labor to change one or both, its better to buy both parts and save hundreds in labor down the road.

If he couldn't get the resistors separetely, he may have replaced a good motor and had no choice. Are you sure the motor works? How fast does the old motor turn? Do you feel any play in the motor shaft?

As far as the part price he charged, you don't have much say in that. Did he use a genuine mitsu part, or a generic? Many shops will not install customer parts. This is a common policy with many good technicians.

It is ok to ask questions. Be polite and patient. If he wants your business he doesn't want you to think he's ripping you off. There's nothing wrong with getting a few estimites before having work done, but I feel once you find a good garage you should take you car back there. Don't jump from place to place for every different repair. A good shop will get to know you and your car.

Lates,
XR

[dave_p]

thats fancy talk for variable resistors, sometimes they are located external to the motor as well, chances are the resistors were bad as mentioned above, he really said it all im just here to back him up onthe resistor thing. this is why sometimes a fan motor will be replaced but will only work on the highest speed and not the lower ones, because the mechanic didnt replace the rheostat as well.

[DryIce]

heres the email i got back from them


This might be too confusing to try to explain in an e-mail. If my explanation is confusing, please call me, and I will meet with you here at LDG, so we can show you exactly what I am about to explain here.

What usually happens to a blower motor is that the contacts inside get worn. There is a part inside called the 'comutator'. It is round, with a dozen or so contact surfaces made of brass, each separated by an insulation substance. There are also two 'brushes' that ride on the comutator. At all times they are making contact with two of the contact surfaces on the comutator, each opposite the other. Power goes in one, comes out the other. The brushes must make good contact with the comutator surfaces at all times in order for current to flow. Sometimes, a contact surface will become worn, and if you turn it on after it has stopped at that particular spot, the motor will not work. Also, sometimes the springs get weak, allowing the brushes to intermittantly make contact or not.

We tested the blower motor circuit on your car to make sure you had full battery voltage at the motor. We then tested to make sure you had a 'complete to ground' on the ground side of the circuit and that it was a good ground (sometimes a ground circuit can get high resistance that will cause problems). Since both were okay, we knew your blower motor was bad. To verify that, we turned the squirel cage of the blower motor, and away it went. That did not mean, however, that the blower motor was now 'okay'. We know from experience that any time that blower would happen to stop in that position it would mean the next time you tried to use it it was not going to work. We could have given it back to you and it may have worked okay for a day, a week, maybe even a month before it happened to stop in that particular position again. But the problem WAS going to repeat itself. It is a result of normal wear and tear on the contacts and the brushes. And, it is normal that once a blower motor starts working, it will continue, because it is not given the chance to come to rest on those worn contacts.

Having been in the automotive repair trade for over 25 years, I can understand how the appearance is that we replaced your blower motor needlessly. What we did is prevent you from getting in your car on a hot day, (or cold one), turn the blower motor on, and have the aggrevation of it not working again, and having to bring it back to us a second time to find out why.

With regards to the item that appears to not be hooked up or attached properly, I would appreciate you returning your car to us to look at that. If we have made a mistake, we wish to correct it.

Again, I thank you for expressing your concerns. I know this was an expensive repair, and we were limited to obtain a new blower motor from Mitsubishi. Their parts are usually more expensive and Jeff expressed to me your concern about the price. Having worked in dealerships, I assure you that parts sold in their repair shop are marked up more than those sold over the counter. That is to cover warranty expenses and just keeping the doors open.

Please stop by soon for us to look at what appears to be something not attached properly. You should be able to wait for something like that and we will try to have it corrected speedily.

Thank you again,

Larry Guinn