AO army- help the man in a coma!

[Havoc_online]

Tom? Someone? could you organize this and make an ao contribution as a whole. Also, between capoeira and myself we'd be able to contribute 20.00 to start out. Maybe Tom could receive any contributions and contact the man's family to help pay medical bills.

C'mon AO lets flex some muscle, we can do this better and faster than anyone else!!!!!!

[Clare]

any contribution at all would help! :)

[Mango]

Im sorry, but what is this about?

[Clare]

AO the Paintball Industry Needs Your Help With the Attack in LA (http://automags.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=30346)

[cphilip]

Full details would help you cause...

[shartley]

Interesting… yes tragic indeed. But if anyone gives it should be because it is tragic, NOT because it involved the misuse of Paintball Markers. Are we to feel responsible and then give funds to other tragic victims if we are associated in some way with how it happened?

I.E.

Man beaten with a baseball bat…. I play baseball, I now should give them money?

Kids take golf balls and toss them out a 35-story window, a man ends up in a coma…. I play Golf, I now should give them money?

Woman is hit by a speeding car and ends up in the hospital… I drive a car, I should now send her money?

The list could go on and on…..

This is what Tom had to say about it…

AO,

Several industry people have asked me to ask YOU to help with this. As you might have heard a 51 year old man was shot by paintballs over the weekend. He was on rollerblades and slipped and hit his head. He is now in a coma and on life support. Several witnesses saw kids with paintguns on the cliff above but they have not been arrested yet.

Someone must know these guys! Please keep your ears and eyes open for any info from the California area that might lead to their arrest. I just got off the phone with Budd Orr and the reporters have hit each one of his retail stores today.

There already have been published reports of the incident which left out the fact that the guy slipped and then hit his head. They just read "Man in coma after paintball attack". We need to use the power of AO to try and bring these guys to justice!

Thanks from the entire paintball industry.

AGD
I agree with that. What we as a community can do, and should do, is help bring these people to justice. Them shooting paintballs at the man was the crime and was assault…. The man being in a coma seems to be his own fault. Two different issues.

Was he wearing a helmet? Seems that is standard safety equipment and his choice to wear it or not, and if he WAS wearing one I find it unlikely that he would now be in a coma. This may sound harsh, but goes to my point….. if you were walking your dog and it startled him and he fell and hit his head and ended up in a coma, would you be responsible for his bills? No. Should then all dog owners feel responsible because a “dog” startled him? No. Can and should be feel bad for this tragic event? Yes.

I guess what I am trying to say is that we are dealing with two different issues here. And I will not send a dime to help pay a person’s bills when the actual injury could have been avoided by the proper use of safety equipment, and that was the individual’s choice. You can not convince me that the man might not have lost his balance a half a block later for NO apparent reason and fallen and ended up in a coma as well. I Roller Blade too, and know how easy it is to fall.. for ANY reason.

I WILL however bend over backward to assist in any way I can to bring those who assaulted him with Paintball Markers to justice (although I admit there is little to nothing I can do about that since I live on the other side of the country).

This does not make me “heartless” or “uncaring”, but we (most people) can not give to EVERY tragic accident or situation that gets put in front of us. If we did, we would have nothing for ourselves…. And would you then send me YOUR money to pay for my children and bills? And anyone who thinks I am just mean spirited and just don’t want to help anyone…. think again. Anyone who knows me knows MUCH differently. In fact I just sent off money to help the Paintball Player that got into a car accident in MA. But that was for a totally different reason.

How about this? I would be willing to buy him a Helmet… for which if he was wearing one he would not be in a coma right now (that is unless someone can show me that he WAS wearing one.. but that is unlikely since that is what they are designed to protect you from). The paintball attack is not the reason he is in a coma… there are hundreds of reasons people fall while rollerblading, and I have never heard of someone hitting their head while wearing a helmet and ending up in a coma. So in my opinion, we are dealing with two issues here (yet tragically linked).

(Note: If you do not agree with me, fine. I have no problem with that. But please do not take what I write out of context or warp it into meanings I clearly did not intend.)

[cphilip]

Someone please point me to the post I must have missed on all this....

[shartley]

Phil.. look at CaPoEiRa's second post here. ;)

[cphilip]

Dang! I am so off today. :(

[manike]

I'm in complete agreement with Shartley :D

It was an act of hooliganism and we should help to find the perpetrators because they may be accessible via people in our sport. And we should help and push to get them prosecuted, but we should not feel guilty or responsible because of the use of paintball equipment. We should just use that as a driver to find and prosecute these idiots.

manike

[epterry]

if we give and we make the news theyll know paint ballers arent all jerks.

[shartley]

if we give and we make the news theyll know paint ballers arent all jerks.
And if you don’t give, does that mean you ARE a jerk, or that paintballers are all jerks? Not at all.

But you pose a mighty strong IF, either way.

How about this? If paintballers help get these jerks, and it makes the news, they will know not all paintballers break the law, or condone this type of activity. They will know that the Sport HAS responsible participants and we do not tolerate this behavior. And that is more important to the Industry and the Sport than donations that only help one individual, and an individual that assisted in his own condition as much as the paintball attackers did.

This is an issue of breaking the law and being accountable for it, NOT one of paying this guy’s medical bills. As I stated before, his bills are caused by himself, NOT by being hit with a paintball. Now if he was wearing a helmet and the attack made him go in the street to avoid or evade the attack, and he was hit by a vehicle…. THAT would be a different story. But he simply fell down and hit his head on the pavement… something a helmet is specifically designed to protect him from. That makes his actual injuries HIS fault, sorry.

They are two different issues… and paintballers should deal with the one that directly affects paintball as a whole.

The man’s coma is just icing on the “media” cake, but has nothing to do with the actions of the paintball players who assaulted him. If he ended up with nothing more than a couple welts I would STILL be all for bringing these punks to justice. Please don’t confuse irrelevant issues with what really happened, or who is responsible for what. The assault was the problem (that paintball players should be focusing on) and what the jerks should be held accountable for, but the coma was caused directly by the decisions of the man himself. I feel sorry for him, but do not think paintball players should feel guilty for his resulting condition… because they (paintball players and the industry) had nothing to do with it.

And paying for his bills would send a message that somehow paintballers (and the industry) were at fault for his being in the coma. And this is simply not true. In fact, paintballers (in general) are not responsible for a darn thing. Jerks using paintball markers are the cause of the attack, yes they are players, but they are NOT the Industry or the Sport. I think THAT message is more important than a token “payment” to a victim for his own decisions as well as rogue paintball players.

But everyone is free to do as they feel they need to do. The only reason I even commented is that it was suggested that AO make a “group” donation, and as a member of AO, it would represent me as well. I don’t think it would be right, or even proper to do so. If individual AO members feel strongly about giving, they should do so as individuals.

[manike]

Originally posted by shartley
And paying for his bills would send a message that somehow paintballers (and the industry) were at fault for his being in the coma. And this is simply not true

Again I find myself in complete agreement with Shartley.

manike

[cphilip]

Originally posted by manike


Again I find myself in complete agreement with Shartley.

manike


This is a historic moment folks! That may be the first time these four word have ever been strung together:

complete agreement with Shartley :eek:

And by Manike none the less! I am glad I was sitting down.
I think this calls for a Pop Contest! Oh wait...there already is one. Tonight!!!

:D

[manike]

Hey I'm happy to agree with him when he has a valid point :D

Just teasing.

manike

[MikeCouves]

Did somebody say pop contest?. Anyways, I agree wit Shartley on the helmet thing, it is kind of harsh but that's just the way it is. It could have all been prevented.

But imagine how his family members feel about paintball and how angry they must be?

[Havoc_online]

I Can't believe you see it like that!! He should have been wearing a helmet? Well he might as well been wearing a JT mask just in case. As far as your analogies with baseball, golf, cars, etc. That's ignorant talk, If I hit someone on the head with a bat, there is no chance of anyone shuting down baseball. What if they move to make paintball guns illegal? what if the sport is banned? Do you realize what this could mean? Just wait till you need a permit to buy a gun, anyone under 18 can't play anymore, how old are you? do you know anyone under 18 who likes to play? Do you think that him wearing a helmet would make a difference to anyone who wants paintball to stay in the dark or even get it banned? That's just dumb luck, but we have to show that were not a bunch of mindless poeple with guns, we have to show them that we are people who play a sport and can take action. By us helping does'nt mean were responible, but it does show that were care about what happens in our own sporting world. I can't believe this board isnt full of people waiting to help. Instead everyone is waiting for a chance at a warp or an RT Pro. I'm seriously thinking about using my money I was going to use to buy a warp to send to this guy, all I need is Tom's word that he can organize everyone who wants to help, If not, then I'll send the money the the guy directly.

[HoppysMag]

so what? he shoulda wore a helmet. if we pay, thats like sayin "WELL WERE AT FAULT, SO WE WILL PAY" And the thing about bud orrs shops being mobed by reporters, all i would say was "Was he wearing a helmet?" "Where any actual injurys recieved directly from the paintballs?". and if they want to get nasty about it, kick them out.

[boss_automager]

Shartley why is it that all your posts are so long,I'm on hooked on Phonics and i have trouble with posts that long.But yeah if tom organizes it i guess i'll donate.

[Havoc_online]

I don't think enough of you are looking at the bigger picture, will it matter if he was wearing a helmet in court when his family wants to get kids with paintball guns in L.A. banned?

[tremis]

Shartley, you are a fruitbooter? I never would have guessed. To each his own. I guess everybody has to make their own lifestyle choices. :)
And you know, when people whine to me, I always quote Denis Leary and tell em " Life sucks, buy a helmet" it feels kind of weird to say it now.

Tremis

[shartley]

Havoc_online
I am so sorry you feel that way, and feel the need to speak so strongly AT me. But, since you wanted it… here goes…


I Can't believe you see it like that!! He should have been wearing a helmet? Well he might as well been wearing a JT mask just in case.
A JT Mask is designed to protect you playing PAINTBALL. A helmet is designed to protect you while Roller Blading. Did the paintballs hit him in the head and cause him to go into a coma? No, his falling and hitting his head on the pavement did. And falling is a COMMON thing when Roller Blading, thus the helmets. If he was wearing a helmet, would the fall have caused a coma?

You insinuate I was stating he should have worn PAINTBALL protective gear, when I clearly was not. I also stated for people to NOT take what I said out of context and twist it to say things I obviously did not mean… you did BOTH.


As far as your analogies with baseball, golf, cars, etc. That's ignorant talk, If I hit someone on the head with a bat, there is no chance of anyone shuting down baseball.
You are evidently VERY new here…. Ignorant talk? Look to your own post and lack of common sense. Rhetoric may “feel good” and you may feel you are making a “difference” but trust me, you are not. People want paintball to be treated like any other sport yet you get all defensive and “run to the hills” when some punks cause a problem? You proved my point FOR me.


What if they move to make paintball guns illegal? what if the sport is banned? Do you realize what this could mean?
If they move to make paintball MARKERS illegal we will deal with THAT issue at THAT time. Ban the sport? See my last sentence.

Do I realize what this would mean? Sure it means that the sky is falling! The sky is falling!


Just wait till you need a permit to buy a gun, anyone under 18 can't play anymore, how old are you? do you know anyone under 18 who likes to play?
hmmmm, need a permit to buy a “gun”. Well since I would only buy a paintball MARKER I guess I would not have to worry. Oh, and how many serious accidents involve air guns (bb and pellet)? And do we need permits to purchase them now?

How old am I? LOL I think saying my kids range from 20months old to 19 years old will suffice. And I highly doubt that it will EVER become a thing of anyone under 18 not being able to PLAY. And if it is anyone under 18 being able to PURCHASE markers, no problem! You see, me and my son both shoot air weapons and he is only 12… guess him not being able to buy them himself really stopped things didn’t it?


Do you think that him wearing a helmet would make a difference to anyone who wants paintball to stay in the dark or even get it banned?
No, I am sure it doesn’t. But you are now saying that if they push the issue YOU have no power? Are you saying that paintball players have NO voice of reason? Guess what? There have been MANY cases of paintball abuse in the news over the years, and the industry is still plugging along. This case is a freak accident. Again, it is easier to focus on the “freak” part than what really happened. You can cowtow and snivel if you like, but the paintballs did not put him in the coma… his lack of proper head protection for the sport HE was engaging in was.

I know that may not sound “nice”, but it is the simple truth.


That's just dumb luck, but we have to show that were not a bunch of mindless poeple with guns, we have to show them that we are people who play a sport and can take action.
I agree! But taking action is MUCH different than paying for his hospital bills when half of the problem was caused by a decision HE made. If he fell down and broke his wrist… sure, paying for his bills may be acceptable. But he got an injury that was easily preventable by simply using the proper safety equipment for the activity he was engaged in…. it was his choice. Period.


By us helping does'nt mean were responible, but it does show that were care about what happens in our own sporting world.
Correction my young friend… this did NOT happen in our sporting world. It happened by a couple punks using paintball equipment in an unauthorized place and in a way it was not intended to be used. By paying you ARE admitting in some way the actions taken by those jerks is a part of the sport of paintball… which it ISN’T. Want to send the right message, help lock them up… don’t pay for their mistakes and misuse of equipment (or that of a grown adult that knew full well the risks of Roller Blading without a helmet).


I can't believe this board isnt full of people waiting to help. Instead everyone is waiting for a chance at a warp or an RT Pro.
This is a low blow. Are you saying I don’t want to help? I don’t consider paying the guys bills “helping” the situation. Sure, it may make you feel good, but it does not help the “perception” of the sport of paintball…… paintballers turning these punks over to the police DOES. And in my opinion that is much more help, and fitting for the actual situation.


I'm seriously thinking about using my money I was going to use to buy a warp to send to this guy, all I need is Tom's word that he can organize everyone who wants to help, If not, then I'll send the money the the guy directly.
And that is your choice. But don’t get crappy about those who choose NOT to. They are not any less “nice” than you are, and I can bet that some of us have done a heck of a lot more for the sport and those in it than sending money to this guy is even close to doing. You posed a question and a suggestion, and it involved using AO to collect and send money on behalf of AO to this guy.. I am opposed to it for the reasons I stated. You are not. Great! But I did not attack you for your beliefs and opinions, I made rational statements to support MINE. All I see from your statements is emotion talking, but little else. Sure if you want to send him money directly, be my guest… but when you ask that this be done on behalf of AO…. I am AO as well, and I say NO.


I don't think enough of you are looking at the bigger picture, will it matter if he was wearing a helmet in court when his family wants to get kids with paintball guns in L.A. banned?
Ahhh, now there is the rub. You are thinking with your heart (which is not a bad thing), but in COURT you need much more than heart. His family would be torn apart by even a first year law student. They could possibly get paintball banned because of the attack (but probably not), but NEVER for him being in a coma. THAT was his fault and no amount of paintballs (even shot directly at his head from such a distance) would put him in a coma. That was caused directly from the fall, and even I have easily shown how a fall is easily caused by many things, not just paintballs hitting you.

I think YOU are not looking at the bigger picture, sorry. You are only looking at this one guy and his family. You are not looking at the actual ramifications caused by making a group donation to pay his bills. The reasons have already been clearly stated, so I will not do so again.

tremis

Shartley, you are a fruitbooter? I never would have guessed. To each his own. I guess everybody has to make their own lifestyle choices.
What on earth does THAT mean?

[HoppysMag]

Havoc_online. same things true with brass eagel. but aint nuthin is gunna get done. its not the paintball comunitys falt its the individual. im ok with sendin a get well soon card and mabey a letter sayin how these kids dont represent us as a hole. mabey even a little money. but if we pay this guys hospital bills then were are admitting that we did something wrong. which we did not.

Shartly i agree with you......wow that feels wierd to say.

[jah871]

im am also in complete agreement with shartley. im not saying we shouldn't get money for him and i feel very bad for the man but all the paintball players are not at fault. its not our falt that some kids misused the paintball equipment, just my opinion.

[sajohnston]

Shartley you never let me down, your eloquence and message quoting skills are unrivaled. Seriously I totally agree with you, catch the offenders, let medicare take care of the coma. Sending greenbacks his way would only whip the media into a bigger frenzy.

[Havoc_online]

I agree I am totally for sending those punks to jail and I do believe that would be the perfect thing to do, but how are we going to do that if we no nothing about those kids or where they live or who they are? My only real point was that 5bucks here 10bucks there wouldnt affect us to much, but would do more that calling some kids-punks. I still don't believe it shows that we are at fault, It shows that by trying to find out who those kids are, helping the police, and helping a little with any possible money issues, that we are at least trying to show that we are completely against it and we are doing everything we can.

[tysonmachado]

If you guys really want to send him a lump of money, go ahead and organize it yourself. "Concerned painballers organize to help injured man" would look a lot better in a newspaper than "Paintball company pays reparations for injuries. If individuals try to help, while making the statement that we do not condone the misuse of paintball equipment, could show the world that there are a lot of nice people who play paintball. If the paintball industry gives him money it looks like a settlement or an attempt to avoid legal action. It also looks like an admission of guilt and it sets a dangerous precedent. Next thing you know everyone who is injured because of morons with paintball guns and everyone who suffers property damages from paintball vandalism will expect the paintball companies to compensate them as well.

[shartley]

Havoc_online
I fully understand your position, and you are free to do as YOU feel you need to. But when you suggest that AO send the money as a group, I am against it (as it seems many others are as well). That is just sending the wrong message whether you know it (or think) or not. I even stated that those that felt strongly about it should send the money if that is what made THEM feel good, but to do so as private individuals. By doing that you are not sending any message but one for yourself.

AO is a large group and if they sent a donation AS a group it goes with a much stronger meaning.


I agree I am totally for sending those punks to jail and I do believe that would be the perfect thing to do, but how are we going to do that if we no nothing about those kids or where they live or who they are?
That was why Tom made his first announcement. So that any paintball players in that area can keep their eyes and ears open, and if they find out anything they can report it.

Also, one thing that my Wife just said (and I was thinking all day) is that noone even knows if he NEEDS the money. I know that if I was out mountain biking and ended up in a coma my Health Insurance would cover it. I could be wrong, but again… just a gut feeling. It is always good to find out if they NEED it first.

tysonmachado
I understand what you are saying, but please keep in mind that a large group of paintball players sends a message for the industry, even inadvertently. This is why I suggested that each person who felt the need to send money do so as an individual. Individuals can only be making individual statements (if any) but a group….. the is a much different story.

Quoting myself from above:

But everyone is free to do as they feel they need to do. The only reason I even commented is that it was suggested that AO make a “group” donation, and as a member of AO, it would represent me as well. I don’t think it would be right, or even proper to do so. If individual AO members feel strongly about giving, they should do so as individuals.

Again I stress my position is one of a group donation, not an individual one. I don’t agree with sending anything, but that is a personal decision. But once you make it a donation from AO, it is from me as well (whether I actually contributed or not)… and I don’t agree with it. Thus I was making sure my position was well known.

tremis
Thanks for the PM….. No offense was taken. :) I just did not know what a “fruitbooter” was. LOL (It is one who roller blades) ((my correction was spelling fruitbooter right.. LOL))

[FaSSt]

Bad things CAN and DO happen to innocent people all of the time. There simply is not enough money in the world to try to right all such wrongs.

I feel bad for the poor guy in the coma. However, I do not feel like I have ANY obligation to send him money, or feel responsible in the least for anything that happened to him.

I don't know how things work in California, but in Florida shooting paintballs at another, unwilling person outside of a paintball field would be considered assault, and rightly so. Any energies expended in helping the guy in question should be focused toward locating the alleged shooters.

While I for one applaud your desire to help, I refuse to involve my wallet in this situation.

[Havoc_online]

A JT Mask is designed to protect you playing PAINTBALL. A helmet is designed to protect you while Roller Blading. Did the paintballs hit him in the head and cause him to go into a coma? No, his falling and hitting his head on the pavement did. And falling is a COMMON thing when Roller Blading, thus the helmets. If he was wearing a helmet, would the fall have caused a coma?

someone does not recongize sarcasm


You are evidently VERY new here…. Ignorant talk? Look to your own post and lack of common sense. Rhetoric may “feel good” and you may feel you are making a “difference” but trust me, you are not. People want paintball to be treated like any other sport yet you get all defensive and “run to the hills” when some punks cause a problem? You proved my point FOR me.

I proved nothing for you, Face it, paintball is not just any sprot, its an extreme sport that can be abused pretty bad by the wrong people, I'm not running anywhere only stating that it's a very sensitive subject.


If they move to make paintball MARKERS illegal we will deal with THAT issue at THAT time. Ban the sport? See my last sentence.

why wait till it's about to blow up in your face, deal with it when it's not as big a deal when we have the upper hand.


hmmmm, need a permit to buy a “gun”. Well since I would only buy a paintball MARKER I guess I would not have to worry. Oh, and how many serious accidents involve air guns (bb and pellet)? And do we need permits to purchase them now?



How old am I? LOL I think saying my kids range from 20months old to 19 years old will suffice. And I highly doubt that it will EVER become a thing of anyone under 18 not being able to PLAY. And if it is anyone under 18 being able to PURCHASE markers, no problem! You see, me and my son both shoot air weapons and he is only 12… guess him not being able to buy them himself really stopped things didn’t it?

a permit to buy a marker, you know what I meant, btw bb and pellet guns don't fire 10+rps THATS why it's not a big deal, any kid can rain on a whole crowd with ease, and great for your kids cause they happen to have a parent who plays, what about the kids who have problems as it is because of all the heat their parents give them, just because it works out for you doesnt mean a thing.


No, I am sure it doesn’t. But you are now saying that if they push the issue YOU have no power? Are you saying that paintball players have NO voice of reason? Guess what? There have been MANY cases of paintball abuse in the news over the years, and the industry is still plugging along. This case is a freak accident. Again, it is easier to focus on the “freak” part than what really happened. You can cowtow and snivel if you like, but the paintballs did not put him in the coma… his lack of proper head protection for the sport HE was engaging in was.

I do agree that he should have worn a helmet but the fact is he did'nt fall because of a rock in the road, he fell because of some idiots, I do no there has been many cases like this but you have to take it as it goes, no don't ignore it.


Correction my young friend… this did NOT happen in our sporting world. It happened by a couple punks using paintball equipment in an unauthorized place and in a way it was not intended to be used. By paying you ARE admitting in some way the actions taken by those jerks is a part of the sport of paintball… which it ISN’T. Want to send the right message, help lock them up… don’t pay for their mistakes and misuse of equipment (or that of a grown adult that knew full well the risks of Roller Blading without a helmet).

I am simply in no position to help lock anyone up as are many but I am in a position to help a little. My only msg I want to send is that I don't condone what was done.


This is a low blow. Are you saying I don’t want to help? I don’t consider paying the guys bills “helping” the situation. Sure, it may make you feel good, but it does not help the “perception” of the sport of paintball…… paintballers turning these punks over to the police DOES. And in my opinion that is much more help, and fitting for the actual situation.

Ok, this is a low blow, I myself will be trying to win something but no one is asking you to pay anyones bills only to give some pocket change, I do think that if these kids are brought to justice then all is well but how are you going to do that? If you came up with something I'd back you up but this is something that can easliy be done.


And that is your choice. But don’t get crappy about those who choose NOT to. They are not any less “nice” than you are, and I can bet that some of us have done a heck of a lot more for the sport and those in it than sending money to this guy is even close to doing. You posed a question and a suggestion, and it involved using AO to collect and send money on behalf of AO to this guy.. I am opposed to it for the reasons I stated. You are not. Great! But I did not attack you for your beliefs and opinions, I made rational statements to support MINE. All I see from your statements is emotion talking, but little else. Sure if you want to send him money directly, be my guest… but when you ask that this be done on behalf of AO…. I am AO as well, and I say NO.

again your right, this board is merely a poll in case anyone else wanted to help if the majority in the end wants to great if not then there are other ways.


I think YOU are not looking at the bigger picture, sorry. You are only looking at this one guy and his family. You are not looking at the actual ramifications caused by making a group donation to pay his bills. The reasons have already been clearly stated, so I will not do so again.

the bigger picture to me is all the people and parents who are unlike you and will look at the trouble their kids might get into if they let them get into the sport, I think they will have gotten this idea because of simple acts like these and will assume that this is a common thing around paintballers.


Shartley you never let me down, your eloquence and message quoting skills are unrivaled.

don't assume a well spoken person is a always a right person


If you guys really want to send him a lump of money, go ahead and organize it yourself. "Concerned painballers organize to help injured man" would look a lot better in a newspaper than "Paintball company pays reparations for injuries. If individuals try to help, while making the statement that we do not condone the misuse of paintball equipment, could show the world that there are a lot of nice people who play paintball. If the paintball industry gives him money it looks like a settlement or an attempt to avoid legal action. It also looks like an admission of guilt and it sets a dangerous precedent. Next thing you know everyone who is injured because of morons with paintball guns and everyone who suffers property damages from paintball vandalism will expect the paintball companies to compensate them as well.

This is a very good point but it's not a paintball company who would be helping out, it's a paintball forum, and the money would be coming from paintballers. If it happened again to someone else, if anyone did or did not want to help then it would be fine as well.

[BgGrizzly]

I think Shartley is 100% right about this. Individuals should donate if they want, but a group of individuals doing so under the AO name would not be the right thing to do.

[shartley]

bunkerhugger
I could not agree more. Now THAT would send a strong message.....