Im begining to question the advantage of a high ROF.

[Butterfingers]

I was over at donggie's monday night prior to a private group game at high velocity, so he could "hook up" my e-mag. Unfortunately the e-mag/warp power hack didnt work as planned and the warp kept spinning uncontrollably when the e-mag powered up with the sensitivity jumper REMOVED and the pot turned all the way down.

It was getting late and we had to go NOW, my e-mag was sitting on the floor with wires haning out of it and parts strewn across the room. Rather than hastily throwing it back together I whooped out my classic mag and decided to play with that for the night.

It was rudimentary compared to modern standards, with a hopper on top and co2 on the bottom. Luckily I knew James, the owners son, at high velocity and he hooked me up with a nitro tank for the night.

I was a bit nervous at first concidering the hyped up competition donngie hinted at. I thought to myself, "well, at least the gun is light..." Surely I thought I was going to be outgunned.

In reality it was quite the opposite. My manuevers became smoother. My shots became twice as accurate. That hopper on top to tell you the truth isnt ALL that bad.

I ended up bunkering 5 people in a 2 hour period, I dont know how to explain it but I played ALOT smoother with a lesser gun.

So in conclusion, does a high ROF help? Surely it does. However, in order for it to be effective you must first learn how to play without it.

ROF without adequate skill only serves to mask insufficencies in a person's game. Knowing I did not have a high ROF that night made me play smarter, and harder. Instead of blowing paint down the feild I actually thought hard about flanking angles and made quick gut wrenching decisions about offensive and defensive moves. And god forbid, I actually took care in AIMING. Much more so than before.

Ill be playing with my "rudimentary" classic mag alot more often. When I go back to my e-mag I expect to become a much better player.

ROF is hype, BUT only for those who don't have the skill to use it.

[shartley]

AMEN!

[krafty]

Originally posted by shartley
AMEN!

I 2nd that!

[pip_999]

Originally posted by krafty


I 2nd that!

1 3rd that

[cphilip]

You know I think it's all a psychological thing really. You go out there with a high ROF marker and you subconsciously expect the marker to compensate for a lot of lack of motivation and stuff and it just will not do that. So you downgrade and tell yourself you have to play harder to compensate and surprise! YOU DO! You re really just the same guy and shouldn't be blaming the High ROF marker for not performing as its you and your attitude with that thing in your hands that’s the problem.

Now really great players (not me!) can do both and then in their hands they are all the much better to take advantage of the benefits of any extra rate of fire. But for a lot of us the motivation factor of moving down makes us concentrate on our game more. Same sort of thing happens to me when we play "Hopper Ball" I mean knowing I only have one-hopper makes me change the game I am playing. Often I use a HROF marker and this can be a distinct disadvantage to have under those situations. So I have to think more and play better and conserve. Helps the whole game I think. But its often said here "its not the marker its the player". Given the marker at least works.

[nerobro]

Originally posted by Butterfingers
It was rudimentary compared to modern standards, with a hopper on top and co2 on the bottom. Luckily I knew James, the owners son, at high velocity and he hooked me up with a nitro tank for the night.

That's how my mag started.. and I learned how bad freezign the tank can get. I froze the powertube o-ring twice in my mag.. ever.. but I made a whole lot of co2 tanks freeze solid ;-) Be happy for the n2


I was a bit nervous at first concidering the hyped up competition donngie hinted at. I thought to myself, "well, at least the gun is light..." Surely I thought I was going to be outgunned.

You're or at least were dependant on the gun.... Not a good situation.


In reality it was quite the opposite. My manuevers became smoother. My shots became twice as accurate. That hopper on top to tell you the truth isnt ALL that bad.

There is a reason I do as much of my serious practice with a pumpgun. Hoppers aren't an issue if you dont' leave it exposed long enough.


I ended up bunkering 5 people in a 2 hour period, I dont know how to explain it but I played ALOT smoother with a lesser gun.

Using a "lesser" gun teaches you not to depend on equipment. There is a chicago field that caters to the higher end player... more serious player. the place is country club paintball. In the advanced games... it's hard to find a non-electro gun. They can be interesting games to watch, more interesting to play in. Especially when you get one ball versus their 10 ;-)


So in conclusion, does a high ROF help? Surely it does. However, in order for it to be effective you must first learn how to play without it.

I'm glad you've seen the light. Though the conditions that brought that out are kinda mild.


ROF without adequate skill only serves to mask insufficencies in a person's game. Knowing I did not have a high ROF that night made me play smarter, and harder. Instead of blowing paint down the feild I actually thought hard about flanking angles and made quick gut wrenching decisions about offensive and defensive moves. And god forbid, I actually took care in AIMING. Much more so than before.

Ill be playing with my "rudimentary" classic mag alot more often. When I go back to my e-mag I expect to become a much better player.

ROF is hype, BUT only for those who don't have the skill to use it.

ROF without skill is just a way to shoot paint. IT doesn't even really mask for a lack of skill. (IE the people who take pgp's and pop players with angels...) This is more a point on how to improve your skill level... ... ROF is not hype. And it has it's place. NOTHING will replace ROF when sweet spotting a lane, or running off the break.

When I run my pumpguns... I dont' even bother fireing more than one shot off the break. I just concentrate on the run.

BTW, I practice what I preach. I played skyball with team PPIG. And This weekend I will yet again be at CCP, PGP in hand.

I'll see ya at the flag.

-Nero

[shartley]

nerobro
HEY! Only I am allowed to make posts like that!

(j/k ;))

[pumpamatic]

I will agree that a high ROF isn't neccessary, but I also love how fast I can snapshoot 3 shots with my mag and get back in the bunker.

[hitech]

Originally posted by RobAGD
You can only hide your lack of game with your Rate of Fire for so long.

You have seen the light at the end of the tunnel, and it's not a train. ;)

[MikeCouves]

Originally posted by pip_999


1 3rd that \

I 4th that!

[Miscue]

I <I>rarely</I> open up on the trigger... and usually keep it brief when I do. I stay limited to basic snap shooting - quick bursts - and just tap on the trigger to hold people in their bunkers (mostly to make sure I'm lined up good). I shoot fast usually when opponents are on the move, when I've got a good shot on them, a lane needs to be held down... basically whenever the situation really calls for it. But, I make it a policy to lay off the trigger most of the time so people will forget about me being a threat.

A fast trigger is VERY useful when you're doing quick bursts or on the occassion that you need to be shooting a good stream. When bursting you get a ball or two extra out in same amount of time with less effort... and of course strings are easier when you need them.

Patience and playing smart will get you more kills than your 16bps finger. When I'm on the field, I'm out fishing. Easier to hook em if you ain't making a big scene. Let them take a nibble and reel them in hard.

[Fred]

hehe... my Phantom gets maybe 3bps when I autotrigger it...

Anyway... last summer at Futureball i had played the whole day with my VSC Phantom, shot maybe 200 rounds, didn't get a ton of elims, but my share. Last game was hyperball, and my good friend Wyn1370 started to clean up early, and handed my his RetroMinimag for the last game... I made it almost to the 50 in the first break, and got 6 elims in the first 15 seconds (something like 15 on 15 or more.. very target rich environment).

My Stock class skills make me move alot, really fast, to make up for the lower rate of fire, but switching to the Retro for that game showed me that I really had improved my skills playing Stock class all summer long. :)

I did end up getting gogged though, since I had my head out too long shooting a string... doh! :)

Now if only i can find a PUMP minimag....

[hitech]

Originally posted by Miscue
But, I make it a policy to lay off the trigger most of the time so people will forget about me being a threat... When I'm on the field, I'm out fishing. Easier to hook em if you ain't making a big scene. Let them take a nibble and reel them in hard.

Hey, that's my trick. :D

[Macpaintballer]

I dont own a mag, but was just kinda reading through the posts and then I got to this...

1) Butterfingers- What team are you part of? I play at HV and the new Cousins, just sorta wondering who this is sorta coming from.

2) Now that you have "seen the light" how would you look upon playing with a blowback? When I say blowback, I am refering to lets say... a Piranha thats all LP with a nice reg, barrel, etc... maybe even an electro grip. Would you still see blowbacks as crap?

I ask this because, as I play with my blowback, I often wonder how playing with an electro imporves game that much. I only see electros as a convinience of not worrying about your fire power and accuracy, and more about stradegies and getting people out. I am really curious if I should just go electro such as a impy, or just sort of bump up to a mag or cocker.

So basically, after this experience, are electros all that worth it?

[soilent green]

I agree with you thats why I got a stock class phantom however I have yet to use it in speedball maybe I'll give it a shot this week end

[Butterfingers]

Originally posted by Macpaintballer
I dont own a mag, but was just kinda reading through the posts and then I got to this...

1) Butterfingers- What team are you part of? I play at HV and the new Cousins, just sorta wondering who this is sorta coming from.

2) Now that you have "seen the light" how would you look upon playing with a blowback? When I say blowback, I am refering to lets say... a Piranha thats all LP with a nice reg, barrel, etc... maybe even an electro grip. Would you still see blowbacks as crap?

I ask this because, as I play with my blowback, I often wonder how playing with an electro imporves game that much. I only see electros as a convinience of not worrying about your fire power and accuracy, and more about stradegies and getting people out. I am really curious if I should just go electro such as a impy, or just sort of bump up to a mag or cocker.

So basically, after this experience, are electros all that worth it?

I currently don't play on any team since I go away to college. The last team I was on was back in high school 3 yrs ago and that wasn't much.

I honestly don't know how I would feel playing with a piranah. Its all about feel. Im sure its a great performing gun. But if it dosent feel right in my hands I can't play well with it. Maybe part of the reason why I played so well that night was because I like the feel of my classic mag better than my e-mag. So the answer would be I would have to play a few games with it.

Electros are worth it. The advnatages are in hit probability. The laws of probability cannot be broken. Given a player with identical skill the elctro player will win every time. Simply because if you send more balls in a general direction the better a chance of a hit. But a ROF advantage is useless without proper application.

Yes they are worth it but concentrate on skill first.

[slayer]

Originally posted by Macpaintballer
I often wonder how playing with an electro imporves game that much. I only see electros as a convinience of not worrying about your fire power and accuracy, and more about stradegies and getting people out. I am really curious if I should just go electro such as a impy, or just sort of bump up to a mag or cocker.

So basically, after this experience, are electros all that worth it?


If I may answer this...an electro is worth it to me. I had a standard mag, and it was excellent. Occaisionally I short stroked, and when I fired quickly my shots grouped fairly tight.

I got an emag, and I don't shoot that much more paint, I probably shoot a little faster, but the huge gain was in accurracy(group size). I wasn't jerking the gun as much when I was trying to put out a modest string of paint to cut down a runner. I don't sight down the barrel that often, I fire and adjust like in quake...so the increase in ROF may have helped that way also.
Really though, I just enjoy thinking about firing and that thought being turned into an action. When I am not worrying about trigger pulling form, or outshooting my hopper(I have a warp) it just made the game more fun for me.

[FiTiRPiLiT]

"I don't sight down the barrel that often, I fire and adjust like in quake..."

LOL, i thought i was the only one! :D

[Dubstar112]

I have a hyperframe mag which is capped at 13 bps, and when I play rec I turn it down to like 9-10. And believe me, you can really feel the difference between them few bps. I too, like the feel of an electro mag, and I always question why not get a manual gun?? Since I got my hyperframe I have noticed me depending on the ROF that my gun now has. If I played with a lesser gun, I would probally be a lot worse at paintball :(.. but Im not with my gun so Im going to keep it:)(Emag next!)

[Kajo]

Rate of Fire... an intresting issue. To me, sustanible rate of fire is not a big issue. I never use it. When I am playing I am continously snap shooting, unless I just have an insane shot on a guy. I pop out of the bunker, take 3 quick shots. Thats where the electric trigger comes into play. My trigger finger is insanely crappy, I can't even really rip an electro that fast. I tried my friends RT, cocker, ect, ect.. I shoot most guns slow. If i had to snapshoot with a manual I think I would be done, because I would be hanging out longer to get my third or fourth ball out.

Thats my take... sweetspotting ROF would be incredibly handy though.

Kajo out-

[magc68]

i used to shoot an rt pro and that thing would fly. i sold it and i was debating between an emag or a freeflow cocker.

after playing with both i got the cocker cause all the emag offered was faster shooting.

i the times that the higher rate of fire was useable was quick wide open shots or when sweetspotting.

i noticed i could do all i needed with a nice cocker and the would not chop at all. the emag doesnt chop a lot. but the oppertunity is there. the cocker just pinches the ball. after all thing being looked at i got the cocker and im playing just as good as i would have been if i had the emag or rt pro.

theres my expirence...