Gary Holdren Fund!!!!

[JJBrookshire]

As of today SPPLAT has established the "Gary Holdren Fund". This is a seperate and distinct account to benefit Gary Holdren and his family. Mr. Holdren was the victim of the criminal acts carried out by individuals using paintball markers as weapons! Mr. Holdren was skating when hit and fell in such a manner as to cause severe head trauma. He is currently on life support at Mission Hospital in Southern California. You may contribute to this fund by mailing checks or money orders to "The Gary Holdren Fund" c/o First Western Bank, 2722 West Walnut, Rogers, AR 72756. By the middle of next week we will have the ability to accept credit card donations online. I will post the link when it is established. 100% of the deposits will go to Mr. Holdren or his family according to their instructions.

Comments may be sent to JJ@SPPLAT.com. I will gladly forward any comments to Mr. Holdren's girlfriend with whom I spoke this morning. She asks that we keep Gary in our prayers.

[Mossman]

bump for a great cause, if i had extra money it would be sent.

ttt

[JJBrookshire]

It is an important cause and we as PLAYERS can do something about it. Not only should be contribute if we can, players need to think about this incident when you hear of other individuals committing criminal acts with Paintball equipment. While the shooters may have thought that they were "having fun" and never imagined that they could cause such damage to their target, they are none the less culpable for this and they should not only be held criminally accountable they must realize that they have achieved pariah status among us that play the game! If you know of individuals who have done or do such things as shooting at unprotected and unsuspecting victims or vandalize with markers, please turn them in to law enforcement. We MUST patrol our own ranks to make sure that we are not painted with the same brush! These scum are not paintball players they are criminals that risk the very sport that we enjoy!

[shartley]

I will indeed keep him in my prayers. My money on the other hand will remain in my wallet.

I have already stated my opinion on a “group” donation from Paintball Players or Organizations representing them, and the message it sends…
http://automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30407

But each must act according to their own convictions and I don’t feel badly toward those who will end up sending money. I hope they don’t judge those of us who chose NOT to badly either.

I think this is mostly about publicity and “feeling good”, nothing more. And the reason I think this is simply because if he was really in need, I am SURE they (his family, church, or hospital) would already have a fund set up for him.. why not just post THAT address? Why does it have to be a SPPLAT thing? That is my opinion and others will have theirs, and I respect their rights to them.

[Chris]

I wholehartedly agree with you Shartley. While it is a very kind gesture to set up a help fund on behalf of the paintball industry, I dont believe that it should be done because some children used paintball markers to harm an individual, but rather because he was hurt period. Maybe I am wrong and the general public, whom I belive are nothing more than lemmings, will see this and it will change their conception of our sport.

-Chris

[JJBrookshire]

Yes Shartley there is an element of "feeling good" (when you do good things you should feel good). There is also an element of "publicity". Just as the headlines "Skater critical after paint-ball attack" ... "3 youths sought in paint-ball attack" ... "Vigil for paint-ball victim continues" (all appeared in the Orange County Register) are examples of "publicity". By us banding together to show tangible support for the victim, we can in some way counter the negative "publicity" generated. It is imperative that paintball players (not just industry representatives) show their concern and support. The fund is setup in Mr. Holdren's name and not SPPLAT's. SPPLAT is doing this simply because we are a Player's organization and feel it appropriate for us to do. If you wish not to contribute, you should not be branded in anyway. Nor will I post the names and dollars contributed by each player. That is not what it is about. I will let the players know how much is raised and each time a dispersal is made. I'll do that simply to keep everything in the open.

[slayer]

What JJ is doing is honorable, and I believe it will create some positive publicity for paintball(even though I will not donate funds, I think that whoever does should feel good about themselves). Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but I gurantee if some kid clocked that poor fellow in the head with a baseball on purpose and the same result occurred, I doubt it would get the publicity and I doubt anyone would look negatively on baseball as a whole. I hope that this is the same way people will treat paintball, but with all the people afraid of guns...I don't know.

[Mango]

Slayer makes a great point, people are hit every day by baseball bats and you dont see the Baseball organizations makeing any contributions, setting up funds, etc.
I think what JJ is doing is honorable and I WILL contribute. But not to just "feel good", If I want to feel good I'll eat a donut. The reason Im contributing is for exactly the reasons JJ said above. We need to counter this excess negative image.

[Tunaman]

I too will contribute to what I see as a great cause. You are to be commended JJ, as you are doing a most admirable thing. I am not even a member of Spplat, nor have I ever considered joining, but this makes me mad, and wanting to do something to right the wrong...so I am joining too! :cool:

[brian terry]

a JJ see me at the maddness this week,.,..

[JJBrookshire]

I'll be getting in on Thursday. SPPLAT will be hosting the "vendor room" and we will have a booth there. Look forward to seeing Brian and rest.

[KOP_jedi_master]

im not typing this because i want you all to be proud of me.....im am just saying that i am going to contribute what i can/.....10 dollars or so....i dont get much money...im only 14 and dont have a job...where i do get my money is by mowing lawns or doing other random chores.....im just saying that i know what it is like to not have money......i know maybe some ppl are saving up for new guns or any other things like that...but im asking the ppl who do have money(maybe not much)and probably need it to play this coming weekend....please donate it and play next weekend......i think we all should try to donate as much as we can....a dollar or even a dime.....any thing im sure would help.....


Derek

[obsolete898]

I wanna know why he needs money? Does he not have insurance to pay the hospital bill or something. I feel bad for what happened to him. It also aggrivates me because this will bring bad publicity to our sport, but how will giving him 10 bucks show that I don't support what those kids did. I can write a letter and show my support. Sorry I just feel a bunch of letters with $$ in it is to just make us feel and look better.

[JJBrookshire]

As someone who has had family members in ICU for extended "stays", I can tell you that it is extremely rare that insurance covers the entire bill. Most insurance policies have a deductable followed by in some cases 80% coverage. The 20% left for you to pay may be thousands of dollars for several days in ICU.

Is this about "good publicity" and "feeling good"? In many ways, the answer is Yes and Yes. There is nothing wrong with combatting bad publicity with "good publicity" nor is there anything improper about doing good things to make oneself feel good. I'm not pressing anyone for donations but do believe that by contributing to the situation in a positive manner we can show our support for the victim and demonstrate that those who would do such things are not reflective of Paintball Players.

[obsolete898]

I understand that, and it's a good point. I feel that it would be better done with helping to find the kids who did that and by sending letters of condolances(sp).


Edit: I've had a couple friends head to the ICU. One w/ a broken neck. None of them paid any money out of thier pockets.

[pip_999]

i think that this is a great idea
and i believe tha money should be raised to support the medical bills, and then some money to put into the investigation

[tremis]

I hope the guy recovers. I, however will not be sending any money, as I am not responsible for his condition. Nor will I apologize for something I have not done. I still wonder what this man fell on that penetrated his helmet to cause the injury.

Tremis

[Interceptor]

I am trying really hard not to sound like a jerk here, but the guy would probably have walked away from this if he had a helmet on. This in no way excuses what these kids did, but I think he contributed some to his own injury. He could have tripped on a pebble and got the same result.

Either way, JJ, good job. I used to read your articles in the old magazines. Hope it all works out for this guy, and they catch those kids.

[AllAmericanMag]

Are there any updates on Gary's condition?

[soilent green]

sorry it wasn't appropriate

[Interceptor]

Don't mean to flame, but you would rather support this guy over victims of a terrorist act? Dude that is screwed up.

[-Jôker-]

Originally posted by soilent green
let me be honest I don't care about this guy I don't care if he dies I do care about the reputation of paintball and I think this will help our name I didn't give a dime to a single 9/11 fund but I'll give to this. So come on guys do it for PR not for this guy. Sorry if I offeneded any of you but thats my opinion.

what are you thinking??? you really have no cares in the world do you... sheesh

[DarkRipper]

Kudos to JJ. Not only is this the right thing to do as fellow human beings, it's also good for the sport.

To all those who don't want to contribute: That's your decision, and it's your money. However, rather than trying to convince us how right you are to NOT send money, just DON'T comment.

If people want to send money to help someone who has been injured, they should be allowed to without some holier-than-thou reasoning as to why YOU won't do it.

Grow up people.

DR

[soilent green]

I was in a bad mood but look if you want to donate go ahead

[Havoc_online]

I'm afraid I have a very sinical veiw of the world and especially 9/11 sorry but I'm very cold and care alot about my self

I don't think you really know what your talking about when you say things like that about 9/11. Your still thinking about having fun when you get home from school. Your whole frame of thought and way of life wouldnt be what it is if it were'nt for people who fight and die to protect this country and keep it they way it is, free. Hopefully one day, you'll be a little more mature and realize that an attack on any american is also an attack on your way of life.

[-Jôker-]

i hope you get drafted dude......

[tremis]

Ok I'm back, I needed my fix of AO to get throught the day :)

Darkripper
Heres an idea, how about those who wish to donate keep their traps shut. It's not Okay for me to say why I don't think I'll donate, but it's fine for at least four different people to ask me to send my money. My reply didn't ask for anything from anyone. This whole thread should be in the friendly corner or maybe the dealers forum as this seems like the sale of "good feelings". I was unaware that is not only acceptable to solicit donations but of such importance that it gets stickied to the top of the main forum. I'll be posting my donation requests soon.

Tremis

[DarkRipper]

Originally posted by tremis
Ok I'm back, I needed my fix of AO to get throught the day :)

Darkripper
Heres an idea, how about those who wish to donate keep their traps shut. It's not Okay for me to say why I don't think I'll donate, but it's fine for at least four different people to ask me to send my money. My reply didn't ask for anything from anyone. This whole thread should be in the friendly corner or maybe the dealers forum as this seems like the sale of "good feelings". I was unaware that is not only acceptable to solicit donations but of such importance that it gets stickied to the top of the main forum. I'll be posting my donation requests soon.

Tremis

Tremis:
You seem to miss the whole point in your rush to make a crappy response.

This isn't about YOU or YOUR problems; it's about some poor bastard in California that is in ICU because of paintballers. (Granted, he should have been wearing a helmet, but that's purely speculative.)
So, keep your self-righteousness in your pants, noone wants to hear whether or not you want this thread stickied or whether it belongs here or not. The mods/admins stickied it here, that should be enough for you as a member.
Next, your post and several others here (including mine, I admit) make this post a poor one for 'Friendly Corner'.

You have the option to IGNORE the threads asking for donations, whereas the people asking for donations DO NOT have the option to NOT have idiots flame them for asking.
:rolleyes:

Thanks!
DR

[soilent green]

Hey lets drop the disscusion on wether or not people should donate money and I do appreciate our freedoms here but I am really disgusted with all the corruption in the government and all these rich jerks that drive thier SUV's

[tremis]

DarkRipper, you are right this isn't about me and my problems its about some other guy and his problems. Thats the point?

I wonder why its speculative that a man should wear the proper safety gear for an activity he chose to participate in. I suppose you could speculate whether or not he would have sustained the same injury if he had been wearing the proper safety gear, but you speculate whether or not he should be wearing it. To me its not speculative, its a fact. You should wear whatever safety gear is required by the activity you are participating in.

My comments on where the thread belongs come from reading the descriptions of the forum. Click the back button twice and you will see them too.

And "that should be good enough for you as a member" thing just isn't gonna happen. The mods are not perfect, I personally have seen some of them do what I consider the wrong thing before. Believe it or not, if I feel their actions warrant a comment, I'll make it.

I still feel this is not an appropriate place to solicit donations. Mr Brookshire could have just made a post saying there is a fund and then included a link to SPLAATs page that had all of the info about it. He chose to ask me for my money instead. I felt that required a response, so I made one. Of course you feel that I should not respond because I have a different view.

I do have the option to ignore whatever I want. As does everybody else. Of course seeing the title of this thread, I didnt know it was a Donation Request . It mentioned a name and the word fund. For all I knew, it could have been a notice saying that somebody had raised money via a fund to help some terminal kid realize his dream of playing paintball with Avalanche or something. Hard to ignore something when you have to read it to find out what its about. Of course those asking for donations have the option of not asking for it in a forum that is defined as: "...where we talk about the sport of paintball in general ...". Something that obviously has nothing to do with "the sport of paintball in general".

And for the record, I flamed nobody for asking for money in my prevoius replies. My beef is with you telling me to stay quiet because I dont share you views. my statement " how about those who wish to donate keep their traps shut" was a sarcastic attempt to show you that its ridiculous to try and censor people because they don't agree with you. It obviously didn't work.

I don't share your opinion, I may not share the the popular opinion. That doesn't make me wrong for having my opinion. And I broke no rules in stating my opinion so I see no reason as to why it should be censored.

Tremis

[shartley]

and all these rich jerks that drive thier SUV's
WHAT!?!?!?! You are kidding right? How about large screen TV's and nice entertainment Systems too? How about nice houses?

:rolleyes:

Some people work darn hard for what they have.... I know for one that NOONE gave me a darn thing, and I may be a jerk (as some think) but it is NOT because of the things I have... or DON'T have. :rolleyes: And anyone who passes judgement like that needs some serious reflection..... But that is just MY opinion.

[JJBrookshire]

I never intended this topic to head in the direction it has taken. I simply wanted to inform the AO members of what was being done regarding this incident which seemed to concern many of you. I also never asked for donations. I simply stated that one "may" contribute and how to do so. If you wish to contribute you are welcome to, if not you are equally welcome to not. I don't intend to post a list of those that contributed and hope no one contributes for that reason.

I appreciate the moderators moving this to "Classic Status" so that the information will remain easy to find. The comments (both pro and con) are really not required. I also posted my contact info, so that if you had a particular comment you can send it to me.

[DarkRipper]

Originally posted by tremis
DarkRipper, you are right this isn't about me and my problems its about some other guy and his problems. Thats the point?

I wonder why its speculative that a man should wear the proper safety gear for an activity he chose to participate in. I suppose you could speculate whether or not he would have sustained the same injury if he had been wearing the

~snip~

I don't share your opinion, I may not share the the popular opinion. That doesn't make me wrong for having my opinion. And I broke no rules in stating my opinion so I see no reason as to why it should be censored.

Tremis

And again:
You have the option to IGNORE the threads asking for donations, whereas the people asking for donations DO NOT have the option to NOT have idiots flame them for asking.

I'm really not understanding what exactly it IS that you think you are providing by harassing the members that want to donate?

Are you really that puffed up? I'm normally not someone who flames people, but your responses show me someone whose self-importance quotient is higher than it should be.

If you don't have anything nice to say, just don't say anything at all.

That's not censorship. BTW, before you start screaming about censorship you should reread the TOS that you agreed to when you signed up here. Basically, this is a private forum and your first amendment rights don't apply. The mods can and will remove you if they don't like you, and there's jack-all you can do about it.

So, that's my opinion in a nutshell. It really just amazes me that when someone tries to do something nice for someone else, all some people can do is make harsh comments about it.

DR

[DarkRipper]

Originally posted by JJBrookshire
The comments (both pro and con) are really not required.

How's that for gratitude?

Next time you're on your own, sir.


:rolleyes:
DR

[tremis]

They Have the option to ask somwhere else. I answered a request for money. YOU told me to be quiet. Its YOU who said my opinion isn't worth mention. Not the Mods, not the other donors. YOU seem to be the one full of self imortance telling me that while your opinion may be worth posting, mine is not. I had no intention of following up my first post, but you instructed me to not comment. I felt and still feel thats you are in no position to tell me what to do.If the mods wanna tell me to shut up, fine. They are, after all the ones selected by the owner to moderate this.
I also feel that they need to treat all of the members equally, and that it may be possible that a donation request being allowed/stickied in the main forum by a common member,could be seen as favoritism to that poster. If they don't want everybody to post donation requests there, they should allow no members to do it.
If they have double standards, then I might say something. If I get booted for it, fine. I refuse to live in fear that I may be punished if my opinion isn't popular. I find a good deal of people here very intelligent and enjoy the good debates. But I don't need to come here if I get chastised for having a different opinion.
If folks want to donate, good for them. My opinion is that it should be organized elswhere. And it is my GOD given right to have an opinion. Not a MOD given right. If I choose to state my opinion an a way that breaks no posted rules and get punished for it, I will bid AO farewell.

In closing, I never posted anything to "the donors" that can be misread to the point to imply harassment. I feel this thread is in the wrong location and I feel that YOU overstepped yourself in telling me not to comment.

Tremis

[DarkRipper]

Originally posted by tremis
They Have the option to ask somwhere else. I answered a request for money. YOU told me to be quiet. Its YOU who said my opinion isn't worth mention. Not the Mods, not the other donors. YOU seem to be the one full of self imortance telling me that while your opinion may be worth posting, mine is not. I had no intention of following up my first post, but you instructed me to not comment. I felt and still feel thats you are in no position to tell me what to do.If the mods wanna tell me to shut up, fine. They are, after all the ones selected by the owner to moderate this.
I also feel that they need to treat all of the members equally, and that it may be possible that a donation request being allowed/stickied in the main forum by a common member,could be seen as favoritism to that poster. If they don't want everybody to post donation requests there, they should allow no members to do it.
If they have double standards, then I might say something. If I get booted for it, fine. I refuse to live in fear that I may be punished if my opinion isn't popular. I find a good deal of people here very intelligent and enjoy the good debates. But I don't need to come here if I get chastised for having a different opinion.
If folks want to donate, good for them. My opinion is that it should be organized elswhere. And it is my GOD given right to have an opinion. Not a MOD given right. If I choose to state my opinion an a way that breaks no posted rules and get punished for it, I will bid AO farewell.

In closing, I never posted anything to "the donors" that can be misread to the point to imply harassment. I feel this thread is in the wrong location and I feel that YOU overstepped yourself in telling me not to comment.

Tremis

I'm not even bothering to read this, as you are too self-important to bother even considering my side of the argument. Also, Brookshire could care less too as well it seems.

So, flame on, Tremis. I'm done with you. If you really want some inspired flames, feel free to PM me. I hesitate to REALLY tell you what I think in public, what with all the children here. :)

/edit I did read the bit about your opinion being God-given rather than Mod-given... hahahaha apparently you are new to the whole message board routine. :)

:rolleyes:
DR

[sukhoi120]

His statement about more comments not being neccessary was not an attack or an order to 'shut up.' All he's saying is that he started the post as a mere announcement of a kind effort he is doing. He didn't start the thread to turn into a flame war. He's just trying to help a poor guy in SoCal.

If you're against contributing, don't contribute. If you're for contributing, contribute. Just saying that the option to contribute is open, thanks to a few kind people, is not reason to immediately start screaming about your right to or not to.

I for one, am going to leave it at that and attempt not to get into an arguement. ;)

[Big Jim]

Originally posted by Interceptor
Don't mean to flame, but you would rather support this guy over victims of a terrorist act? Dude that is screwed up.

There was WAY more money raised for the families and victims of the 9/11 terrorism acts. What 'JJ' is doing is going to benift the sport of paintballing. If this guy dies we are screwed. This could put major restrictions on the sport we play. If you don't care about it that much then mabey you shouldnt be playing paintball. Go play chess, we won't miss you. If you want to help keep the sport alive, then great, we, as paintballers, appericate your help. We need this. The sport was looked down upon before this event, now think how people feel. And I as a resident in California, not far from Orange County, I am worried about what can happen, and will make a donation. In the longrun this will help our sport, and mabey after this people will have a better attitude about paintballing.

That's just my 2 cents. Later.

[Interceptor]

Big Jim, back off. My comment was in reference to something that Soleint Green said, and he has edited his post and changed it. I am in no way attacking JJ for what he is doing.

[Big Jim]

And I am not attacking you. I was mearly making a point.

[tremis]

I just thought I'd let you guys know that Dark Ripper and myself buried the hatchet and are now playing nicely :)



Tremis

[Big Jim]

Good to hear. This is for a good cause, so there is no need to fight over it. Like I said the sport needs it, so do what you can, or do nothing.

[Interceptor]

Well, the guy died. Just giving you boys a heads up.

[Big Jim]

Can someone link me to the site that has a chart on average injuries with PB and like other sports and an artical about how safe it is and stuff, please. Thanks.

[Interceptor]

http://www.durtydan.com/ddpis/stats.html

Hope this helps