GoodBye

[ThePatriot]

I am reluctant to inform to you that I am no longer going to be posting here, maybe once a week or month. Why? I am sure is the question of the day, well let me explain to you why. Yesterday 2 of my posts were closed wondering if anyone thought a psychic were fake or real, the fact AO has become this sickens me. I have been on AO less and less but now this does it. AO was never ever like this in the past, and its no longer a forum of paintball, its a forum of cencorship. Read Fahrenheit 451, it displays what cencorship does to society. I want the old AO back, this crap never happened. I hope i am not the only one who notices this, good bye AO.

[SlipknotX556]

Bye Sean.

[xmetal2001]

I haven't been here nearly as long as some of you, but even i have noticed a change. I have nothing else to do though, so i'm still gonna just hang around.

Bye

[wyn1370]

you have to realize how much this board has grown. With increased trafic, enforcement has had to increase. I have no problem with how things have been handled. You really need to take things less seriously.

[shartley]

ThePatriot
I believe it was already explained to you why the threads were closed. However, if it helps any, please let me try to explain again….

That subject deals with communicating with dead people… not just about psychics. You can argue that a discussion about psychics does not break any rules with little difficulty. The rule however that discussions about THAT particular psychic breaks, is the rule about Religion.

Although clearly NOT about Religion directly, the fact that the subject matter deals with the “afterlife”, it is indeed a matter of personal faith, religious convictions, and beliefs. This is where it differs from a generic discussion about “psychics” which CAN have nothing to do with any “religious” beliefs.

Also keep in mind that the AO Rules ask that any topic that is inflammatory (or potentially inflammatory) in nature not be discussed on the open forums. Religion is one of those types of topics, and adding into the mix people’s strong belief in “communicating with the dead”, you have a volatile situation that is best defused early….. which was done, and also explained to you.

Now as for your thoughts on “censorship” here on AO.. this is not a “societal” issue. The songs, books, and other rhetoric that gets tossed in on issues like this just don’t apply. This forum is not the “government”, it is not “society”, it is a private site owned by a private company. In essence, you may be upset at being “censored” but it was done in a way that was clear in the rules before you even posted the “censored” material… thus, if you had followed the rules in the first place…… ahhhhhh

As for people noticing a change lately…. That is very true. Lately the Moderators have had to become more strict in their enforcement of the rules. And this is directly caused by the increasingly more prevalent breaking of the rules. I know many of us “old timers” (if I may) could very well say the same thing about the influx of those more likely to break rules. ;) I can assure you that about all the Moderators had to deal with in the past was keeping the posts in the correct forums and editing a few cuss words (for the most part).. and this was because the members posting were using a bit more common sense and maturity in their posting decisions.

Please don’t blame the Moderators for your actions, or the actions of other like members. We enjoy your company and you do add to the forums, but do not confuse your posting privileges as a given right… because they are not. If you have a valid issue you can trust that I will be the FIRST to step up and defend you… but this time you do not.

I hope that any “away time” you have from AO will be well spent, and when/if you come back you will do so with a better understanding of the way things work and why. And I for one will welcome you back quite readily.

But as it is, your choice to leave is your personal decision, just as it was to post about an “off limits” topic. Please do not pass the blame or responsibility to anyone other than the one directly responsible.. yourself.

[DryIce]

something happened to me recently too
army banned me in IRC which he comes on liek once a week, if that.
He banned me because of a script i have that replies to the word "train" where it causes me to say Chuga chuga chuga choo choo.
Now i bring this up because he didnt even take the time to EXPLAIN THIS TO ME. i even pm'd him and you know what? no response.
Thanks army.
I was asleep when this happened and had NO control over it. I took it out of my script, but the fact that you just kick banned me made no sense. As far as i can see there are no such rules for IRC scripts so if you are going to enforce rules that dont exist, before even asking the person to turn them off, i suggest you think twice or maybe even three times.
sorry for the rant but i think bans without explination, even when an explination is asked for are infact very unjust.
I have been a member of this board for a LONG time, i was a member of the original board as well.
thanks for the time
sorry for the rant.

[shartley]

DryIce
I thought I saw a rule about that once, so did some quick looking... here you go:

We want you to enjoy our community and interact with our moderators and members with our live chat room. However, there are some rules as we strive to keep the chat room "family" orientated, and maintain a "PG-13" level of discussion. There are also some rules that are just general "netiquette".

• No cussing
• No racial, religious, or sexually inflammatory language
• No "hitting" on other members of the channel - they are here for paintball, not for a date
• Do not type in all caps - it means you are shouting
• Do not use excessive colors, bold letters, or ASCII characters
• Be in control of your script, if it is annoying to the room, turn it off
• Do not spam or flood the channel with repeated statements or questions
• Do not ask for "OPs"
• Do not exhibit disruptive behavior

Breaking one of these rules may lead to being kicked out of the room. Repeatedly breaking a rule will lead to being banned, either temporarily or permanently.
Those are directly from the Chat Rules page... I highlighted the one that even by your own post above, you broke.... by both it being annoying (or so Army though) and by not being in control of the script.

I hope that helps answer your question. I do agree though, that Army should have at least returned your attempts to contact him.... but that is a different issue.

[DryIce]

i said it one time
ONE TIME
i checked the logs
i dont see that as annoying, and if you read it, it says BANNED for repeat offenses not one time, im still banned, but i changed my ip so im back in, but infact army did not do his job and maybe he needs a checkup on the rules as well as me
also...... whatever
oh well
im in there now

[Bluntman]

Don't want to sound too hostile, but I think the closing of a thread and the burning of all books is kinda stretching it on the censorship idea.

[shartley]

I was speeding ONE time! I checked my speedometer and I only was speeding once. ;)

Just messing with you. :D:D:D

Yes, I saw you were back. Good to see.

(((BTW... I was not agreeing with any rules or actions taken, or NOT agreeing either. But your post made it look like NO rules were posted about this type of thing, and clearly they are. And even by your own post, by not being in control of the script (you stated you were asleep) you broke a rule. You may not like it being enforced, but Army did not enforce a rule that did not exist. Let's be fair about this.)))

[Jonno06]

hm.....I do somewhat side with The Patriot on this matter.It was obvioulsy In the friendly Forum and was not breaking any rules.He was mearly asking for AO's opinion on someone.If it would have turned into a flame,I am positive he would have it deleted.I trust in The Patriots reasoning skills,and could have managed his own thread if it got out of control.Censorship is just another way the government keeps a leash on us.

[Hasty8]

If DryIce' recollection is in fact accurate then he did not deserve the ban Shartley, as your post proves.

Doing it once will result in being kicked. Multiple offenses will result in a ban. If DryIce got banned after just one offense (and Chugga-Chugga-Choo-Choo hardly seems that offensive. At least it wasn't a string of expletives) then he should of just received a kick or a warning.

That being said I think the censorship thing has gotten a bit to far out of hand myself. I do understand that this is a private site run by a private company and therefore is due to the rules and regulations of that company. Even beyond that, the rules for posting on this board travel very similar roads as the irst Amendment.

Let me be clear here folks. he First Amendment does not allow free and "wild speech". It merely afford the populations of this contry the legal protection to voice their opinion, provided those opinions are not said without factual basis.

In fact, the only place in the United States where the First Amendment is not enforceable is on the floor of the Congress (if my memory serves). Look back to the Age of Macarthurism when Senator Macsrthur would stand on the floor of Congress (or was it the Senate?) and would read off a list of people he thought to be Communists. As far as my memory goes there was no legal recourse against him doing this even though it destroyed the lives of countless thousands of American citizens.

Now, the rules here state no inflammatory comments and I agree with that. I do, however, disagree with the ban on discussions on religion, politcis and whatever the thrid taboo subject is.

I am a firm believer that the only way to educate people is by the free and unfettered of speech. Perhaps it would be best to limit discussions of this nature to the Friendly Forum and any thread of this variety must be properly identified in the title.

I remember that I had a post up a few weeks ago the cphillip allowed me to keep up there because it had to potential to hit on some sensitive subjects. He warned me long in advance that he was going to keep an eye on it and he did. The thread never took off so I deleted it.

Thank you to cphillip.

However, this is not what Tom had in mind when he started these boards. At least I don't think he did. I think he just wanted a board that would be centered around paintball.

Unfortunately, that topic dries up pretty quickly. For proof of that hypothesis, do a serch for best barrel or paint-to-barrel lengths and see just how many results you get.

Nuff said there.

Back to the topic of DryIce being kicked from the chat. Take into mind that some of the moderators are a tad busier than others. Army, from what I can tell, is often being pulled in multiple directions just about 28 hours a day so you can expect his moderating to be a bit more quick then other moderators.

And as far as Patriots comparision of the censorship turning into the world of Farenheit I think that's a pretty huge stretch. There other boards that do allow religious discussion and although I am a cold-hearted atheist I do post, with great frequency, on many of them. In fact, my extreme dislike of organized religion promts me to learn as much about it as possible and to regularly engage in discussions about it.

The moral? If you want to discuss religion then find a board for it. If you want to discuss politics then find a board for it. If you want to discuss the societal benefits of hot fudge and vanilla ice cream on a warm brownie then go find a board for it.

And as for censorship, on the internet you have the ability to start you own message boards about anything you want. It's the absolute antithesis of censorship.

[Heisman]

ok good bye, oh and I really agree w/ him everyone should read Fahrenheit 451 its a great book

[cphilip]

Well I will not comment on another Mods decissions.

However Patriot I seem to remember it was you that took exception to my multiple ban for all the cursing a few weeks back? Was that not you? Pretty sure it was. And about the only one too. I think you have a little more trouble than most dealing with any authority. And following rules. You know a lot of this may stem from YOUR attitude as much if not more than anyone elses. IN the mean time I wouldn't go burning any bridges if I was you. You'll think it over and probably decide to see it the right way. Take a few days and think about it all OK?

[Shaft]

Take it easy. Don't let the door hit you in the arse on the way out.

:p

[shartley]

Hasty8
Very good points!

Now if I may…. If you take his post in total, he made a few statements that could bring doubt as to his actual recollection of what happened. In court (as I am sure you know quite well) many times things that in themselves would be considered acceptable and believable testimony are not, simply because all the other things said would cast doubt as to the persons recollection of actual events.

He said..

As far as i can see there are no such rules for IRC scripts so if you are going to enforce rules that dont exist….
When clearly there were such rules (and ARE), after all, it took me about 2 seconds to find them and another 5-10 seconds to post them again in this thread. This would cast doubt as to whether he remembers “correctly” what he saw when checking his logs. One might argue that if he missed a set of rules so clearly posted, that he could have also easily overlooked how many times his script ran in a busy log file. ;)

But actually… LOL at this point I am not arguing whether the actions taken were RIGHT, but that there WAS a rule about it. :D As for exactly WHY he was banned, only Army can answer that…. And your honor, he is not present at this time. And as to how many times the script in fact ran, unless we have an unaltered copy of the log file in question, it is impossible to make that determination.

(HeeHee…. This is fun. Note, this is ALL in fun.)

[DryIce]

but ah yes good sir
i DO have an unaltered version of the logs
muahaha
and it IS one time!



btw
those rules arent clearly posted for me
seeing as if i dont join using the java chat and join using my OWN irc client.. but yes i agree i should of read them and it is my fault, but it is also clear that i only broke the rules once which should of been a warning OR a kick

so =P

if you want to fix this
it is very easy to make a onjoin message for when people connect to a irc server (message of the day they could also be called) so that no matter what medium you use to connect to the server the rules WILL be posted...


also this is all in good fun for me at the moment because i see myself being a person much like you shartly... a lawyer like person who likes to argue somewhat back and forth :)

[shartley]

Yes, I am sure you do... BUT can the fact that it is unaltered be verified? In this type of situation, the easiest way is for the Defense and the Prosecution to both provide their logs, and if they match..... If they don’t, then who has the altered logs?

But until then, it is still “he said – she said”.

This is also one of the reasons why the “Law” and “justice” are often quite different beasts.

(darn... lots added by the time I posted this... LOL Sorry. Yes, this is what I would consider fun and exercises the brain. I am glad it can be done without someone getting upset. Also, I am sure the Mods are reading it and can gleam things from it that will prevent this type of confusion from happening in the future. :))

[ThePatriot]

Originally posted by Bluntman
Don't want to sound too hostile, but I think the closing of a thread and the burning of all books is kinda stretching it on the censorship idea.

It didnt start with the burning of books, it started just like this, little parts of people's rights being taken away. Things changing, i doubt we are going to go in reverse with the cencorship ideas, so the only direction is more cencorship....

[Miscue]

ThePatriot. There's all sorts of places on the internet where you can talk about whatever it is that you want to talk about.

You can cry out 'censorship' all you want. Make reference to whatever books you want - you're not the only one who has read them. It is not the same thing.

Can you in the middle of class tell your teacher to go 'take a hike'? But it's a public institution right?

You are misapplying the principles of freedom of speech and have totally displaced its spirit. First of all, this is a privately owned message board... this isn't even publicly owned. And even if it were not... there are still limits to what you can say. You have freedom of speech correct? Then why is slander and libel illegal? It is because there are limitations on your right of speech. (But even this is getting a bit side-tracked from the issue at hand, I'm just making a sub-point)

What you've fallen into is a textbook logically fallacy classified as 'accident'. Basically, it is completely incorrect and should be thrown out of consideration... just like any other fallacy. This is kind of funny, but here is example #1 from my handy-dandy list of logical fallacies:

Category - 'Accident'
1. Freedom of speech is the very heart and soul of democracy. Six-year-old Louie should therefore have perfect freedom to say what he pleases. This follows from your own admission that every member of a democracy should have freedom of speech.

You're trying to make yourself out to be a victim when nobody has done anything to you. My suggestion is to rethink things and get over it. I closed your threads for good reason.

If my decision was unreasonable, then why wouldn't I continue being unreasonable and delete this very thread and ban you? I could if I wanted to. Nobody would know right? Moderators at other forums have done this for much less. Because that's not how we do things here. Everyone is aware of the rules pretty much, you even hinted in your thread that the mods might end up locking it - you knew full well what you were doing and now you act all surprised.

Knock it off.

[Hasty8]

Shartley

Yes, the rules do not that you should be in control of your scripts, however the rules also list the warnings. First offense results in getting kicked from the room. Multiple offenses result in ban.

DryIce should of just gotten kicked.:D

This is assuming that his side of the story is correct it the script ran only once.

[shartley]

Hey everybody! We are having hotdogs for dinner at the Hartley House! WOOHOO Coney Islands, Chilly and Cheese, Cheese, onions, heck…. you name it! It is a great Friday Evening meal, little effort, great outcome……

(Just thought I would share that. :D:D:D Breath in.. relax…)

[Miscue]

Originally posted by DryIce
i said it one time
ONE TIME
i checked the logs
i dont see that as annoying, and if you read it, it says BANNED for repeat offenses not one time, im still banned, but i changed my ip so im back in, but infact army did not do his job and maybe he needs a checkup on the rules as well as me
also...... whatever
oh well
im in there now

If anyone should be complaining about being banned, it's me. One of the delaware.net people's glined me for a stupid reason - they made a mistake and thought I was doing something wrong when I did what TK asked to be done. The whole thing was an accident. I kick/banned the admin not knowing that it was even a person - I thought it was a bot with some goofy script that was interfering with TK because he never really said anything that I noticed. I still can't even get in after two days and nobody except delaware.net can release the ban. Grrr.

[shartley]

Miscue
So what exactly are you trying to say? You want a hotdog too? ;)

[Miscue]

/me is hungry now. Off to find food.

[cphilip]

Coney Islands? Man I haven't had one of them in years. We don't got Coneys around here. Used to in FLorida belive it or not. Back in the 70's you got like a dozen of em in a greasy sack for like two bucks! Man! munchie killers a dozen of those are. Used to go by the NCO Club package store and get a case of Bush 16 oz for $5 and then pick up some chicks (remember Sally, Shelly and Nannette?) and swing through a Motel and borrow (steal) ice for the cooler, and then pick up a sack of those and head to the beach for the afternoon. Net cost for a fine day out for 4-6 people? $10 with gas!!!! and Sex was free back then. Ahhhhhh the days! :D

[DryIce]

ewwww busch

[boss_automager]

Bye Patriot:( :( :(

[Dubstar112]

Trust me, AO is too addicting, he wont be gone for long .. they never leave... (STAY PATRIOT!)

[bunkerhugger]

AO is addicting. I used to be a great systems admin. Now I'm an AO troll. I can't stand this place and it's effect on me. I'm leaving. Well, I'm leaving for as long as it takes the VP to walk past my office. Then I'm coming back.

[Army]

Whew! It took a while for me to catch up to this thread!

DryIce: You are 100% correct, your script hit but once while I was on chat, that night....not the end of the story though is it? Your script, clearly violating the rules, hits 1,3,7 times a night sometimes, it hit 3 times during the last pop-up party alone. Being on automatic, perhaps you do not see my warnings? There are no indicators that it is script, so I acted as if you were there. As for the PM, I just read it this afternoon (Friday the 29th), but you would rather blast me here instead of being patient, so be it, there is my reason.

ThePatriot: In your first post;

John Edwards
Crossing over with John Edward, crap? why or why not....and dont get into religious stuff about life and death, it will get closed and i will get banned(again)
Seems to me you were aware that it could, or would, devolve into a flame session. That is the reason it was closed, whining about it in another post did nothing to promote yourself.

Your Sig seems to say volumes about your attitude;

No Matter How Insanely Wrong Something Seems, The Rules Override It
Although I do find it quite humorous.

[AGDmagman2001]

I've seen alot of change since I joined too, but thankfully its all been for the better. IMO

[HoppysMag]

its simple. just dont say anything and no one will get mad.i havnt been here for that long, but still i watch what i say and it all works out for the best. i never mention religion, race ect....... i never swore or tried to circumvent the cuss filter. the worst i got was a political discusion which never even got into a flame. sorry to see you go, but i dont see anything wrong with what the mods did.....

[TheBigRaguPB4L]

A few things. How many of us have cable? That means that we are signed on to the internet at all times, correct? I have noticed that 9 times out of 10, there is 2 or 3 moderators in the chat. However, they are not saying anything. I see them in there days at a time but never speaking. I also see members in the chat that never say a word, but are always there. As Army has stated, he was simply not at his computer, but was still signed in. Don't be so quick in your expectations for a response, he wasn't ignoring you, he simply wasn't there.

Now he starts a thread that we know might cause a problem. He even states so in the thread. The thread gets banned. After that, he starts another thread about the SAME exact thing. Have we lost all common sense and reasoning? If you figured it would get banned before you even started the first time, why would you start a second thread about the same topic when it did in fact get closed? To me that's just asking for it.

He was kicked out of chat after his first violation. Now you and a few others are complaining that you shouldn't have gotten banned, but yet a warning. My question is, why? You have full access to the rules of these forums. If you break them, why should you recieve any kind of warning for your for your lack of consideration for the rules. I know it's been said but being on this board is a privaledge, not a right. We get all kinds of usefull information and insight about our guns from being on this forum. I for one am going to do whatever i have to do to stay within the boundries of what's decent to keep the advantage of talking to the owner/creator of this company. If you don't like his rules that he has enforced, why are you even here?

I for one have never read the rules in either the chat or the forums. The only times i've even seen mention of the rules when they are in dispute over situations like this. I don't think i've ever really broken a single rule. I remember i cursed once in a thread and when i re-read the thread, i saw the "****" in its place. I imeadiately edited it out so it wasn't there. Following the rules really isn't that hard, nor is it troublesome. Do you go to school and tell your teacher, or work and tell your boss, "____ you" because you dislike her and you're expressing your freedom of speach? i don't think so.

To me, it's hard to understand why people have such a hard time keeping discussions civil on forum's such as these. I think it's because at other places, such as pbnation, rules are loosely enforced, if they even exist. I really don't stray from these boards cause i can't sift through all the garbage that the other boards have because of their lack of moderation. Then they come here and expect the same kind of forum, and they couldn't be more wrong. Honestly, i feel that if you find it that difficult to stay with the flow of things here, then go to another board and start whatever topic you feel you should, but stay off of here. Then again, what does my opinion mean? I guess it only means anything to me. I can live with that.

[Croix71]

Bye Patriot, good luck to you. I hope you find the message board that treats you they you want to be treated.

[Jonno06]

OK,well,I have been pondering this upon my massive brain....And have noticed some thing.You say he was excessivly posting in the chat...3 times right?wow,3 times.Its not like I saw hundreds of lines of texts whirling by....YYYYY.NNNNN.Chugga chugga chugga choo choo?hm....no.Even though TK clearly said vote ONLY ONCE,people did it many,many times,I saw no one get banned or kicked for that.democracy.....or dictatorship?

[DryIce]

well army
according to my pm tracking
you read it the day i sent it
so unless the pm tracking is wrong
i dunno

here
i will drop my proof
and leave it at that
im not trying to keep this flame war going any longer

http://www.galaxy-pc.com/mag/readtime.jpg

i also didnt mean you had to pm me on here
i thought you would of atleast done it on irc
but
thats enough of this

[mountaindud]

Yes this forum is overly strict, but that is just as good as bad. If you ever went to GamerWeb.com's forum for example you'd start to appreciate good e-discipline. It's like an online Jerry Springer show over there sometimes.

So I guess what I'm saying is stop whining and follow the rules. Sorry to lose you Patriot, you were one of our best members. DAMN *EDIT* Follow the rules... POO

[gimp]

I spend to much time on these forums, maybe I should get banned so I can go do something useful...

[Miscue]

Originally posted by mountaindud
So I guess what I'm saying is stop whining and follow the rules.

You said it, not me. :)

This thread is done.