CNNHN "Pepper spray loaded pellets used on Maryland rioters"

[Doobie]

I was just watching CNNHN and they said riot police had to use pellets with pepper spray on the Maryland University fans that were rioting in College Park. Hey Tom, think they were yours?? Feel Tom's wrath Terrapins! LOL
:D
Here is a link to the story at CNN.com
http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/03/31/maryland.fans.ap/index.html

[AGD]

Yes they were ours, we are the only manufacturer.

AGD

[SlipknotX556]

Thats cool Tom, they should have thanked you for making them for them.

[shartley]

Thats cool Tom, they should have thanked you for making them for them.
LOL This just struck me as funny.

Does anyone actually think Tom makes them out of the kindness of his heart? He makes them to SELL them. I can assure you that he does not give them away, it is business….

They don’t need to “thank” him for making them, they do that by buying them. ;)

:D:D:D:D

[HoppysMag]

ah Shartley AO's wet blanket........ lol :D no offense. You always have to prove us wrong... and what exactly do you except all major credit cards for??? What do you do?

[Croix71]

Guess I learn something new everyday. I never would've guessed there was such a thing as a pepper spray filled pellet. Let alone AGD making them.

[BlackVCG]

Croix71- If you download these AGD SuperTour Videos, you'll be able to watch some of the machines that manufacture the plastic paintballs. Lots of other cool stuff in the videos.


http://www.720video.com/agdtour01.htm

[shartley]

HoppysMag
LOL No offense taken. As for the other question... I sent you a PM. :)

[Hamster Huey]

As a die-hard Duke basketball fan and an Automag user, I take this as some small measure of poetic justice. :D

[DryIce]

ack
im transferring to UMD next year
hope i dont get shot!


as for duke...
duke sucks!



btw shartley
what DO you do
pm me too
:o

[MaxxFactor]

I thought the Jaycor corporation makes and markets the "pepperball" line of less than lethal devices using paintball technology. The Jaycor marker looks like a modified Tippman Pro Carbine.

Was there some joint venture involving AGD?

[paintsprayer]

is there any way i can get pepper spray paintballs to shoot at my friends during a game? this could be a whole new tpye of play, temporarily blinding your opponent while you rush them and shoot them out.

[paintsprayer]

or maybe pepper grenades or pepper land mines.

[TylerDurden]

heres Jaycor's website:

http://www.pepperball.com/products/products.html

They make powder fill, liquid fill, and shattering glass paintballs.;)

[AllAmericanMag]

Tom saves the universe!

[wes]

Originally posted by TylerDurden
...shattering glass paintballs.;)

dur its not called glassshattering paintballs, there called cracked colord paintballs. teeeheee

and what kind of gun were they using? i dont know but somewhre it said that they used procarbines. that be cool if they used sydarms! :cool: :cool:

[raehl]

Well if the Baltimore City Council has their way, rioters everywhere (at least in baltimore) would be safe from pepperballs.

- Chris

[ben_JD]

Originally posted by HoppysMag
...and what exactly do you except all major credit cards for??? What do you do? He waits for his clients to get their bosses to make decisions so he can actually do it is what he does...

[pip_999]

some paintballs that are filled with pepper gas (or mustard gas) then we give the cops them, then they brake and WHAM....they old fork in the eye :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[Oddball]

Bring some of them to The Madness so that if the AGD factoey team wins, you can make sure that Timmy cries.

[Croix71]

Kewl, thanks Black. I'm gonna take a look see right now. :D

[MajorDamage]

No, he just means he excepts all the "Major" credit cards. They are all made by me, there is a total of 4 and a half of them. I make them out of cardboard and crayons, they are worthless, but SHartley likes to humor me. He just likes to announce openly that he pities me because of my ignorance, and excepts my homemade credit cards, named after myself. ;). The MajorDamage "Major" credit card!

ENDO!

[shartley]

ben_JD

He waits for his clients to get their bosses to make decisions so he can actually do it is what he does...
LOL I almost rolled out of my chair this morning reading that. It took me totally by surprise... but it is true at times. Ahhh, such is the world of business. LOL

raehl
LOL Another good one. Nice jab, but not quite accurate. ;) The Law would not effect Law Enforcement personnel. :D

AGD

Yes they were ours, we are the only manufacturer.
Tom, I took that at face value as did most everyone else, I am sure. Now that I look at the Jaycor site, they seem to have been QUITE active and have a substantial client base involving their PepperBall System.

In another post a while back the question of WHO actually makes “all” the pepperballs was brought up, and asked specifically FOR you to answer. Webby answered it “sort of” but not where it deals with Jaycor (which was actually brought up in that thread as well)…

http://automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3671

Now I read the WHOLE thing again, and guess what? You actually never answered that question. But what DID happen was a fine demonstration of how if you (not personal, but “you” in general) get on other issues, questions can be “forgotten” and often times they forget to mention that the original question was not answered. Well… I am now doing that. Could you please answer the question… ?

You stated that you are the ONLY manufacturer of PepperBalls. If I called up Jaycor and asked them, would they say the same thing about your statement?

I will however point out that they clearly post a patent number for their pepperballs (at least one of them). This being said I went to the Patent Office’s site and looked it up. They clearly need to fix their archives because the title of the patent is NOT what is then directly following it. LOL Take a look….

http://164.195.100.11/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1='5,965,839'.WKU.&OS=PN/5,965,839&RS=PN/5,965,839

I however am apt to believe this is simply a problem with the patent office’s online database, and not the actual patent since what follows is FAR from being close to what the title of the patent is.

But this clearly did not answer the question any more than simply asking it did. LOL

So, for the record, is AGD the ONLY manufacturer of pepperballs or not? In this day and age I find it hard to believe one small company would be producing all the pepperballs for ALL the companies that make and sell the deployment systems that fire them. This is not saying AGD does not play an important role, or that they are not one of a few companies that make them…. But with what was posted in the link above, and what I read on Jaycor’s site, I am sure you can understand how further clarification would not be an unreasonable request, and that the request would not be out of line.

This is actually a pretty simple question with an even easier answer, it is Yes, or No.

Please, I don’t want to hear the answer from anyone BUT Tom, since he was the one who made the quoted statement above. Also he was asked this before and he did not respond. This is not a FLAME or meant as an insult, insinuation, or anything of the kind, but I am tired of others stepping up and answering things asked of Tom and NOT answering what was actually asked (see the above posted thread). Webby clearly made a good attempt in the other thread, but still missed the base question as it pertained to Jaycor, THEN and now. Thank you for your understanding.

MajorDamage
LOL Yeah, that is what it is. ;)

[cphilip]

Well I did note they never actually said they made them themselves. So I dunno...

"...On the production side, JTS has secured domestic and foreign patents, and established manufacturing and supplier agreements with selected vendors."

And

"...By working with existing hardware makers wherever possible, JTS has designed a system"

Tom, do you got ties to JTS/Jaycor?

[shartley]

Update….

I just called Jaycor Tactical Systems (JTS) using their toll free number 877.887.3773. I talked with the sales staff and they assured me that they did not buy the pepperballs from a third party. They said several times (because I wanted to make darn certain) that they were made in-house by themselves.

I even mentioned directly about AGD and Perfect Circle (and explained that I had heard they made them too), and they told me in no uncertain terms that they did not buy them from any third party. They were very nice to me and I am sure would be to anyone else if they wanted to call and see for themselves. I did not state that Tom Kaye (or AGD) said they purchased his pepperballs however, so don’t worry.

What I said was that I was well aware that products and systems of their type often use third party manufacturers for things they need. And I had “heard” someone say that another company was the only one who made Pepper Spray filled balls of this type, but I thought that might not be totally accurate. I did not say WHO said it though, or where I heard it.

I did however ask one more time to make sure… (not exact quotes but close)… “So you don’t buy your PepperBalls from any third party such as AGD, Perfect Circle, Zap, JT, or any other company?”

“No, we make them ourselves.”

I welcome any constructive comments….

[AGD]

Why Sam, I am surprised and dissapointed at your lack of insite into this! OF COURSE they would tell you they make them! They also sell water filled balls for much more than we do (they buy them from us), do you think they would just tell you to go down the street and get them cheaper??

You can rest assured, unless tbey have suddenly gone into production themselves in the last couple months, we make all the pepperball product under an exclusive contract with them. They are not going to tell you who we are the same as we don't tell people which machine shops we use.

I would appreciate it if you all would not call my largest customer and bug him about this stuff, it makes us look bad.

AGD

[raehl]

I was completely accurate. The bill (02-0713) bans the possession of all paintball guns in Baltimore. There is no exception for law enforcement. There ws an exception put in 02-0703 for airgun use for training in firearms use.

www.paintball-players.org has scanned copies and the texts of the bill.

I'll stay out of the "who makes the pepperballs" fray.

- Chris

[shartley]

Tom,
I am surprised and disappointed in your response to me. Isn’t it you that encourages people to actually research and NOT take things at face value, and even more so if they think it may not be accurate?

I gave valid reasons to doubt the statement. I then did simple research and posed what I came up with. I am very sorry you and your stated customer have such a poor relationship that they might think I will go directly to you for the product. But that is another issue, isn’t it?


Why Sam, I am surprised and dissapointed at your lack of insite into this! OF COURSE they would tell you they make them!
This is just not true at face value. Many manufacturers use parts made my other companies (and the balls are a “part” of the system), but they don’t all try to hide that fact. Actually many will come right out and tell you. Pop open the hood of your truck some time, or how about your computer….

Simply gathering different elements from different sources and making a package is not grounds in itself to hide the places you get all the stuff from. I am actually disappointed that they would lie about it when specifically asked… this would indicate fraud and for a company selling things to Law Enforcement agencies… hmmmm Of course I would not expect them to “publicize” the information, but when directly asked, you bet I would expect them to be honest about it.


They also sell water filled balls for much more than we do (they buy them from us), do you think they would just tell you to go down the street and get them cheaper??
I did not ask about prices, and did not even indicate that I was interested in purchasing any. In fact, the whole tone of the conversation would indicate that I was NOT.


You can rest assured, unless tbey have suddenly gone into production themselves in the last couple months, we make all the pepperball product under an exclusive contract with them. They are not going to tell you who we are the same as we don't tell people which machine shops we use.
Interesting, but the is not quite accurate. I have seen many times on AO the names of third party venders of yours. How about the anno jobs? How about special milling? I would think this would be pretty close to the same thing.

Also, if you had an exclusive contract with them, why would they be worried that I would go to you for them? Wouldn’t that just be impossible to do? OR is that meaning that they only buy from YOU? But if that was the case then you would be indicating that someone else makes them too… but you said you were the only one that did……


I would appreciate it if you all would not call my largest customer and bug him about this stuff, it makes us look bad.
I don’t get it. How would a private person mentioning MANY paintball makers make YOU look bad? Also, you were the one who openly stated you were the only manufacturer of that type of ball, in doing so you are now saying this other company flat out LIES to people. I did not do the marketing for these guys, I did not tell them what to say, and I did not do so for you either.

Or are you saying to simply trust what you say no matter what anyone else says? It is I that is now very confused. And I am confused by your very own words. How would I know they are your largest customer if they themselves claim they are not? And asking questions makes people look bad? Are the answers THAT bad?

I think on this issue Tom you are caught in a catch 22. You after all made the statement, I only asked them to verify it. What is so wrong with that?

[shartley]

raehl
Thank you for that info....

[martlet1]

They used to make paintballs that just stunk. They would actually make you gag. Anyone know who made those? The idea was that you could hit prisoners in a riot situation and make them disperse with the really bad smell. We got some samples of them, but I don't remember what we did with them. We never ordered any of them though.

We did order some of the powder filled red ones from Galls, or someone like that. They sent it with what looked like an old tippman rental gun for us to try them out. I used my ICD alley cat and ran them through. They were just pretty typical paintballs to fire. The pepper was pretty rough too. I did break one in the elbow, and had to used the eyewash crap when I cleaned it. It was pretty cool, but for an agency to use them, we would have to have bought the scuba fill station and all that, and the supervisor wouldn't go for it.

[Spaceman613]

Might sound like a stupid question but...

Do they chrony the pepperbal guns?

Reason I ask is that 300fps is below where balls will break fingers. Would the pepperballs break small bones at high velocities? Or are the shooters out of legal problems because of the riot situations?

Irony would dictate that a rioter gets hit with a HOT pepperball (no pun intended) and it breaks his finger. He then turns around and charges the police with brutality.

[cphilip]

OK then...lets move on with our lives....:cool:

[DryIce]

usually when you buy from a 3rd party it is infact cheaper than buying directly from the source

for example
buying a full freak set from smart parts is 225
where buying it from paintballgear.com or copaintball is 189 or somewhere around there...

im sure this is true with most, if not all AGD products as well... so in following with this.. you would think it would be cheaper to buy these balls from the *other* company instead of directly from AGD, which makes it odd that they would not tell you that they infact did get them from AGD...
who knows im probably just rambling on

[beam]

Originally posted by DryIce
usually when you buy from a 3rd party it is infact cheaper than buying directly from the source

for example
buying a full freak set from smart parts is 225
where buying it from paintballgear.com or copaintball is 189 or somewhere around there...

im sure this is true with most, if not all AGD products as well... so in following with this.. you would think it would be cheaper to buy these balls from the *other* company instead of directly from AGD, which makes it odd that they would not tell you that they infact did get them from AGD...
who knows im probably just rambling on

Dry Ice: There is a reason for this....a manufacturer is just that....they manufacture. They usually are not set up for distribution to the end consumer. Also, most companies want to encourage people to buy from their distribution channels. It would be a folly for a manufacturer to undercut its own distributors....think the distributors would work hard to sell anything?

[DryIce]

beam
there was a REASON i said this
it wasnt just to say it
Tom said this


Originally posted by AGD
They also sell water filled balls for much more than we do (they buy them from us), do you think they would just tell you to go down the street and get them cheaper??



hence why i said what i said

[OldSchoolMag]

Jeez,
you know, if someone says something to make sure that something doesn't hurt their business, it's not the end of the world. I mean, I can understand why they would say they made the pepperballs (but I don't condone it)and that's just to keep their business on top. TK makes for them, they sell to others. TK makes money, they make money, law enforcement can keep the peace. Everybody happy now?

OSM

[cphilip]

Technically anyone who you contract to do work for you is your "employee" under that contract and is making them as such. It's an old stretch of the truth (just a lack the fine details so to speak) to say it and keep you inter-workings private. In fact, if they conduct the work on your site, you are even liable for their actions even though they are "contractors" of yours. OSHA considers a contractor to be an employee of yours in that instance. EPA does too.

[Doobie]

Ho...lee...crap, look what I started.
:confused: :( :confused:

[DryIce]

dont worry doobie
its all in good fun
maybe there should be an arguement section for this forum ?
:o

[cphilip]

Originally posted by DryIce
dont worry doobie
its all in good fun
maybe there should be an arguement section for this forum ?
:o

There is! This is it! ;)

[TylerDurden]

pballin wesley


dur its not called glassshattering paintballs, there called cracked colord paintballs. teeeheee

Actually they are shattering-glass paintballs. Just look at the bottom of the page in the projectiles section. :)