I might as well just say it.....

[Hysperion]

I AM VERY UNHAPPY WITH THE OVERALL PERFORMANCE OF THE SUPER FREAKIN' LIGHT E-MAG AND IT HAS DRIVEN ME TO SELL IT.....There's nothing really to point out except that the thing breaks paint like crazy in anything other then indoor climate conditions. I've never had a good outdoor experience with it and I use a longnose rt bolt. The super bolt was even worse before it broke....Last time my team had practice we all shot the same paint. Every one of them shoots a dark angel and they didn't have any problems all day. I had break after break. It breaks no matter if I use a warp, halo, or revvy or a combination of the warp and halo or revvy.....what's funny is when I sent it in to AGD after the electronics died (in 100 shots after receing the gun), I told them I needed it that Friday. Anyways, they said they'd have it back to me by then but then give me a call that friday (after I expect to get it) telling me that they can't send it to me because they're having problems with it breaking paint. So they install the Anti chop eye and I get the gun 2 weeks later. Well, too bad the problem isn't chopping but breaking down the barrel so the ACE didn't do squat. And no it's not a barrel bore size issue. I generally use a .689 boomy but have also used freaks with different size bores to get the same result. I guess after playing today and having the same problems as before I'm a little ticked off and that only furthers my resolve to sell it. Unfortunately, I feel sorry for the poor soul who buys it.....After seeing other people post about their SFL problems it just goes to show me that the SFL E-Mag is another super bolt product where there's an excuse for everything. The last one I read was "it's those darn angel detents the only product we don't make" (not a direct quote but same idea)....ROFL....I've got one for you "it's the rush to release a product without adequate testing because we need to sell some expensive stuff soon to keep our company afloat"...I guess the people that market the product get the stuff that works (aka manny) and the people that actually buy the stuff get the tail end........Lastly, a $1450 gun that doesn't work in the cold isn't worth $300 edit: As this is what 90% of the people on this forum ask. "Was it cold outside?" .. My reply: "Does it matter? I can't control the weather." [end edit]...I'd really like to see AGD fix the problem instead of making excuses or fake fixes aka superbolt rev.2.....

[Hysperion]

No this doesn't belong in the trading forum because I don't reference making offers about it anywhere here. It's already listed in the trading forum. This is more of a vent about the $1500 I threw down the toilet. I don't want to see offers for the gun on this board either.....(I mean we can all use our heads here, why would I talk-down this gun in the same post I'm selling it in) comeon now :)...all I gotta say is it works good as new and I'm telling the absolute truth ;)

[CNickerson]

Err, I deleted my post a second ago because I wanted to remake it, but you posted too quick. ;) You misunderstand me, I meant my post probably belonged in the trading forum, not yours. And I really wish I could take a look at this gun and tinker with it, but I only have my cocker to trade ya, not a dark angel like you're looking for:(.

[the JoKeR]

Wow. Man, I can understand your frusteration, and have seen you have *some* problems at Dave's, but again, Wow. I can't imagine that your post will help the gun sell, though. On the good side, I did witness you rip through a loader full on full-auto and outrun the hopper and gravity in a major way, so the gun really can rip.:D Yes, it lead to paint breaking and the eye should have prevented it, but you were pushing the technology pretty far on that one without a warp (which may not have helped anyway).:rolleyes:

[Hysperion]

good point joker and one i neglected to bring up...I don't even think the ACE works. I mean if you put you finger in there, no it won't fire but when you fire a string it still burps up a ball from time to time. I put the gun on full auto at 13 bps and still chopped paint like mad even with the ACE on....seems to me like the ace detects the ball too early...

[kilaueakid]

The ACE is adjustable...if it is detecting the ball to early...turn the sensitivity down. Sorry to hear you have had so many problems with it. Just out of curiosity, did your freak back fit in the breach module properly? I know mine was to big and wouldn't go into the breach-counter-bore. I milled the counter-bore a bit larger so it would fit.

I feel your pain though, it must be frusterating. There must be some severe tolerance issues with the breaches as some of us are having excellent results and others are not. Maybe people having good luck are those who are generally using "harder" paint, and possibly not playing in cold weather. I see you are in Wisconsin, I know it is still pretty chilly there, but that shouldn't be an excuse, especially other guns(angels, cockers, ect) aren't having problems.

In any marker, issues like bolt speed, breach size(diameter) and detents are usually the cause of ball breakage with fragile paint. The SFL breach is about .700. When I picture a ball going from a .700 breach into a barrel of .684-.695, I see it having the chance of hitting a lip of the barrel. If the detent spring is to tight coupled with a fast bolt speed, the fragile paint could crack on the push past the detent. Blow back can also cause problems with fragile paint. It will blow all balls upwards and possibly put a "fracture" in a ball. Ball Bobble from the bolt nicking the bottom of the ball can do the same thing. So here are some thoughts to ponder for making a gun easy on fragile paint...

1. Slow down bolt speed

2. Light springs on detent

3. Slightly smaller breach size: This will allow paint to sit in a manner where the next ball is less likely to get hit by the bolt. This will also reduce the size of the lip where the barrel meets the breach.

4. If new breach is made to lets say .695, make the bolt .693 to have lowest amount of blowback.

I am working with a machine shop and will be picking up a prototype breach tommorrow that meets some of the above specifications. I will post results and pics tommorrow.

Once again Hysperion, sorry your stuff isn't working out. Oh yeah, you may not like this, but try going down to 250 fps or under and see what happens. If I am thinking correctly, it should slow the bolt speed down a bit.

Good luck,

Kila

[liigod]

thanks for the heads up man, i was guna get an sfl for my f5, but now im not. Thanks.

[Hysperion]

actually that could be the reason why I'm breaking. [edit]but is still unexcusable [end edit]When I play indoor I chrono at 240 and when I play outdoor I chrono at 280...i usually don't have problems indoor but outdoors break break break....then again last time I had team practice we don't have a chronograph on our field so it was set for 240 still and i still broke like crazy...

[BartManSr]

Damm! I've been waiting and waiting for the new SFL to come out with the latest upgrades on it. I was even going to get the warp and air on it.

Now I'm worried. Do I need to go back to an Angel or can I trust that I'll get one that won't chop paint. I've got better things to do on the field than cleaning paint out of my gun. ROF is not an issue to me, reliability and consistency is.

[Croix71]

Sounds like a lemon. We can see that you've made the effort to fix it by even sending it in to AGD. Couldn't the Shocktech guys just replace your SFL with a brand new one. If it keeps happening again with the new one they should completely refund your money. I know they can't compensate you for the time you lost and all the frustrations that occurred but at least it would show they have good customer service.

[the JoKeR]

Since this gun is based on the E-mag, but heavily modified by Shocktech, does the problem lie with AGD or Shocktech? After seeing so many E-mags working with little or no problems, I'd have to assume that the Shocktech design is lacking. What has been their response when you've talked to them? I agree with Croix71: if they can't fix it, they should either replace it or refund your money. I don't know what the warranty period is on the gun, but documented problems for months can help your case.

[2000Sabre]

The SFL E-Mag is basically an Extreme with custom milling supplied by Shocktech. All of the internals are designed and manufactured by AGD. If there's a refund due, it should be coming from AGD since it's they who warranty the product not Shocktech.

I to am an SFL owner who has experienced this same issue and is very frustrating. On top of high the price of the marker itself, I have purchased a complete Freak kit and Longnose RT Foamie style bolt to find it hasn’t made all that much difference I am willing to tough it out and try a few more things.

However, I think it's time for Tom K to address these concerns directly with the people who have purchased this product and are having these issues. I haven't seen any definitive statements from AGD as to what these issues might be. Rather we see posts indicating that they're working on some design changes and should have something shortly. Nothing specific. I myself would like to know what these changes are and when they will be available. While I have found the advice from forum members helpful, I’m growing tired of the hit and miss approach to this problem. Their needs to be some light at the end of this tunnel but it can only come from the man himself. How about it Tom?

[slayer]

Hmm...I want to vouch for most of agd's products. If it is straight AGD, except for the superbolt I have almost never heard a problem. I haven't always heard the nicest things about Proteam, and Shocktech though. I think most problems come down to one word: tolerances. AGD does make their guns to very high tolerances. They also use stainless steel...hmmm...all the problems i have heard of, have been with aluminum bodies. Interesting, No?

My suggestion...if you don't mind the weight increase try a stainless body AGD emag. It is a real work horse, and I doubt you will have any problems.

I am very anxious to see if AGD can make their own aluminum body with the same level of quality as their stainless steel bodies. If they can, then I will probably get one, otherwise I will dump my emag for an angel because they are relatively reliable, and a bit lighter than a stainless bodied emag. I used to think that weight didn't mattered much, but now I think that it slows me down(the ounces difference there are may be pschycological but...)

[Butterfingers]

Wait how did you set it on full auto?

I was under the impression that SFL E-mags only come in semi auto. There is no full auto option.

[cphilip]

Well you know I hate to say it but seems to me most of the SFL problems are narrowing down to the miss match or misalignment of the body and the barrel. Not the internals. And that match is very critical. And not an AGD-USA produced product. I am sticking to the good old tried and true SS one until I see that these bodies can be milled with some consistency. Some of them are and it is looking more and more like a few of them are not.

[luke]

My partner is having the same trouble with his SFL but in nice weather. I think the problem may be due to sharp edges left from the machining process. I questioned Tom about it, he said to go ahead and smooth them over, but my partner sent the gun to AGD before I could try it. Run your finger threw the breach in the direction the ball travels, chances are you will find some knife like edges, (NOT BURRS) left on the groves from the machining, you might try smoothing them over.

[Hysperion]

Originally posted by CPhillip: "And that match is very critical. And not an AGD-USA produced product."

I could honestly care less who's making the product that's causing the problem. What I care about is who assembled it and who I'm forking $1500 over to. I could assemble a gun made with low quality parts, include a few special ones made custom for me and then blame the poor performance on the parts I don't manufacture- but the consumer is still gonna blame me. I'm sure brass eagle gets alot of their guns' parts from China. Am I gonna go blame the chinese guy who produced that specific part? No.

Truth is I still like Airgun Designs. They were and still are my favorite paintball manufacturer. But just because they're my favorite doesn't mean I'm gonna spend my money on their products if they don't perform. My rt pro worked flawlessly, but this SFL sure doesn't...

Finally, I think it's funny how people tell me and others that are having problems about sanding down edges and all these other ghetto-rig-contraption ideas. I didn't spend $1500 on a marker so that I had to sit there with a file and fix its problems, this isn't a project car. I spent $1500 on a marker to shoot paintballs reliably, accurately, and somewhat quickly. I could care less if it only shoots 13bps instead of 18 if the thing is working. And if I send it in to AGD that's another $30 (because I'm out the money for sending it the first time) I have to pay, 2 weeks I'm without a gun, and for what? They didn't fix the problem last time what makes me think they will this time? They knew of the problem because Saul specifically told me it was breaking paint and that's why they kept it to install the ACE. Well, problem NOT solved.

[Hysperion]

and my sfl does have full auto option with selectability up to 20bps....no shot counter on mine which is strange...

[Butterfingers]

Wow. Thats unusual... Full auto isnt supposed to be there.

When you sell it you should mention that. People will buy it just for the board! :)

Good luck with everything.

Im sorry things didnt work out for you good luck in your future paintball endevors.

My SS e-mag works flawlessly. 20 BPS full auto, e-magnum board, 12v warp & now a halo no chops or breaks whatsoever.

If you live in the new york area you are welcome to use mine.

I understand your frustration. I would be as mad as you are. Nobody should have to pay $1500 for a blender.

[Manuel_FZR]

Hysperion ... that´s really bad. To pay 1500$ for a marker that doesn´t work is really bad ... :( ... and i think breaking paint is the badest thing in paintball.
So, now that a lot of people have probs with their Xtreme/SFL I´m thinking of an Angel (I really don´t want to spend such a huge amount of money for a not working gun)... :rolleyes: to bad, I really looked forward to the c&c Xtreme, but there is no official comment, when/if the Xtreme comes, if it has the "new stuff to handle brittle paint" and what this is???? ... :confused:

[Dude]

I had the EXACT same problem with my Emag, before I got rid of it. The problem is the gun. Many Emags handle extremely poorly in cold weather. Therefore don't use Emags in cold weather.

I had Rob set up my Emag and test it and try to fix it about six times before getting rid of that thing, so I knew it was set up right. Shoot it inside and it was great. If I left it outside past 20 minutes the gun would break about 1 in 30 paintballs. It was a poor quality gun, that is all I have to say. I now have an Intimidator and it works very well and almost never breaks any paint.

Just get rid of the gun and get something else.

[Hysperion]

right now I'm leaning towards a 2k1 dark...i already have a dark ir3 on preorder but I plan on owning 2-3 high end guns.....I'll probably sell this and get a 2k1 dark to use for practice and such or try out that Ground Zero Intimidator which I hear is supposed to be extremely easy on paint and really rip...hopefully someone will buy the gun during the next 4 days on ebay and I can afford a working marker :)

[hitech]

Have you tried calling AGD and explaining your problems and issues (including having to pay, yet again, to send it to them)? Maybe give them another chance to make everything right? Just a thought.

[cphilip]

Hey well sorry but you took my meaning wrong from what I can tell. The lack of central control of all the different people involved in making them is exactly why I said I wouldn't buy one right now.

Like I said for the time being I am sticking to my stock emag which slings paint beautifully.

I got a 26K truck that has had to have something fixed too.I wasn't happy about that neither. I sypathise with you. I understand your frustration. I was not trying to give an excuse. I was just pointing out why I would wait on these things to be trouble shot and fixed before I bought one. In this case I think too much "farming" out of the whole thing is leading to no one being able to put their finger on the exact problem and get together on it all. Or take responsibility for it. Until I am comfortable that all this is settled...I'm staying put and telling others to as well. But I am not abandoning the whole idea. It will be fixed but not with MY money!

[Hysperion]

Well....that's why I don't feel bad selling it to someone, because I know AGD will take care of them and get it working good for them...