NPPL Do You Care??????

[AGD]

AO,

I am here at the tournament and there is a lot of talk in the industry about the future of the NPPL. Of course everyone has opinions but I am interested in YOUR views on the subject.

For those of you that didn't hear, the group of promoters that handles the runing of the events has decided to separate from the NPPL. The NPPL is in theory a player run organization and functions as a league. It was formed originally to combat a perception that the tournaments were not a reflection of what the players wanted. In recent years the NPPL has suffered from lack of input and leadership but remained the "name" that sanctioned the toruneys.

The promoters were originally independent entities each with their own tournament. Last year they all banded together in one company and negotiated with the NPPL as one voice. This year there were several things that happened at the LA NPPL that are too much to get into but caused the promoters to quit the relationship with the NPPL.

Now there are several schools of though on the road forward.
1. Let the promoters do their job they have been doing more than the NPPL has to make it work.
2. Don't let the promoters take over the whole thing, the NPPL is a player run organization and it should stay that way.
3. Forget the promoters, put the tourneys out for bid someone will pick them up.

4. Take some of the existing tourneys and make them NPPL events and move forward.

5. Start a new league without the promoters or their pro teams and start with a clean slate.

6. The whole NPPL thing is way overated, spend the money on lower level tourneys where the real market is.

I am interested in your comments on these ideas. If you would like you can email your comments to emag@airgun.com and I will forward them to others in the industry.

As usual I highly value your comments. I have tried to portray an even handed view of the situation. Myself and the rest of the industry are looking forward to reading what you have to say.

AGD

[FooTemps]

I pick 5. I think that the NPPL still isn't defined or set enough to be a good league. If we set down new rules, etc. with a new league it would be a lot more organized and a lot cleaner...

[Snooky]

I'm also in favor of choice 5. lets get a league that is as organized as the NBA or the MLB. I think it would really help our sport by having a good leauge

[rudy]

5 its about time

[toymyster]

Choice 5 is good only if something is done about the ref. situation!!! I think the sport does need a "professional" leauge, and what it will take is that league has to be run in a professional manner!!!

[CoFFeY[NiTrO]]

#5 B/c that sounds like the easiest one for my to play in when I'm sponsored by AGD ;) :p

[edweird]

3 and 5

A League ran by industry leads (no offence) will not lead to overall advancement and development of the sport. I see it only as a way to lead a Player league is to designate a nonaffiliated nonbiased balanced committee to make rulings and then have a deticated industry supported promotion team to find and develop ways to make the sport more public and take the violent sterotype away from it. Also once a "Pro" team league is formed the players must be undercontract with the teams and the teams must be held accountable for their team. Much like other pro sports. We cant have pro players acting like buffons and not feeling the pains of it.

basicly for a true league to work on a large scale everyone from the orginization to the player must work as a unit to get this rolling.

[thei3ug]

let's face it, NPPL leaders were not exactly the most adept businessmen, otherwise they wouldn't have been edged out of their own events. I happen to believe that the only progress comes from private industry, and a "social" league isn't going to make controversial decisions, isn't going to protect its interests as much as a company with a lot of money to lose is.

[WickeDKlowN]

I pick #5

[virus]

a "pro" leauge for paintball should be as it is with any other sport. that being players and refs are 2 different groups.... also player attitudes need to improve and those that dont should be penalized, ie yelling at refs, rule infractions, etc much like other sports.

now as far as sponsers and promoters... sure let them sponser events and even teams but the teams should be contracted and held accountable for their players on their team... even say the use of a draft system after everything is under way......

but first the sport would have to prove itself to be a money maker for the sponsers who would be backing this, and would have to be very spectator friendly... with clear rules, goals of the game and scoring. when i first read of the format they were going to try at the IAO in PA, i looked at it and came to the conclusion of sounds ok but favors teams with more money/people. looking at that format now, if a new pro league were to happen, with the teams sponsers footing the whole bill (lets face it who could afford that much paint at each and every game all the time), then i can see this whole thing working....

on the financial side of this, the players should be under contract and paid by the team they are on, there should be a draft system, the pool for such a draft could come from the social leagues and tournies we have in place now, these "pro" teams would have to do some scouting for their players....

also there would have to be a salery cap... in the beginging, i doubt that sponsers (esp smaller ones) would be willing to go into this, without first seeing their return on such a venture....

we would also have to have regional divisions, probly keeping with the point system... this could be done 1st with a regional champ and then sned al the reg. champs to a final tourney in which they all compete, to get a national champ for that year....

this will all probly take 3-7 years to get big and keeping the sponsers that long may be hard, but once it does then even more possibilites open up. we may even see farm teams sprout up to form a minor league for paintball and things trickle down from there to the lowly rec player.... mostly making it cheaper too play in the long run....

basicly we just need to look at other sports for the template we need for ours to grow and become what many of us would like to see.



on a side note i'm sure i'll be editing this later... as i always think of better things to add and/or change when i rant like this a few hours later.... =)

[Jonno06]

The NPPL is a player run organization(or was supposed to be),but the greedy,money monger promoters just were in it for the bucks.I think it should stay NPPL and be RUN by PLAYERS FOR PLAYERS!

[Manuel_FZR]

I would also favour a league, witch is organized like the NBA or NFL ... this would really help the sport!

[clanger]

Just a question about #5. If there was a league like the NBA or NFL, would everyone from any division be able to enter into tournaments. Cause lets face facts if its like the NBA or NFL(which it never will be) then is there going to be drafts and player restrictions?

[SlipknotX556]

#5 I say just start everything all over again.

[pip_999]

#5

[Rooster]

As far as a league for Pro akin to the NFL for paintball, i think the power five promoters can provide that. The players really have nothing to do with the whole process, other than being the vehical for creating cash. All the teams are sponsored by companies, they play for prizes and cash from companies, and companies get business becuase of them.

If a players league is created, they should take a page from the college paintball association and concentrate on making tournaments cheaper, and more available so there will be a good pool of future pro players, even at the expense of prize packages. $100 a player is just too expensive to play in a nice tournement, for most people. On the otherhand, the smaller leagues have no standards, and can be very poorly run, and have no over-sight. Also a national league would make a national database possible to rank teams and players that can't afford to travel across the country to play each other (much like the USA today national high school football rankings).

A players league would be about providing tournaments to the players for a reasonable price, not more advertisements for promoters and their sponsorship.

[Troy]

I beleive the nppl and the promoters are still going to workout a deal. I have played in NPPL tournaments since 1997. The problems (reffing, cheating, players complaining...) that have been stated about the nppl are also true and are even more of a problem in any other event that I have ever been at. The Zap AM Open has had the worst fields, reffing, and cheating of any tournament that I have ever attended. Challenge Cup in 1998 was set up so that everone would just sit back and shoot alot of paint(there was no bunkers in the center of the field). But I would like to know how many people that post these comments have ever played in a nppl tournament. Because while the nppl has its flaws it is still the best thing out there. It has the best refs the best format and most importantly the best players. The nppl may have been slow to make changes in but every year since I have been playing it has improved. In response to people who say the nppl should be more like the NBA or NFL. I think the NPPL is better than both. The NPPL alows your every day Am. team go out and play against the best players in the world. Something the NBA or the NFL will never allow.

[Ninja B0Y]

The pro players MAKE the NPPL. The NPPL wouldn't be the NPPL if it weren't for the pros. There's a reason why it's called the National professional Paintball Player's League. It's a league for the big boys, and nothing less. It's straight up balls to the wall in your face paintball and it's not something for the faint of heart. The NPPL makes paintball go around. Their sponsors make jerseys, guns, gadgets for their players, you see those players with all the stuff and you buy it.

It's so revered by tourney players because you can't find any other better competition in the world, period. We have the best players, everytime we go over to Europe, we always whoop their arses and take their prizes and trophies. If we take away the pros who are we going to fill in their spots, you guys?

You take away the pros, you take away the Am A teams, the Am A teams walk then the Am B teams walk. If you've ever been to an event with big name teams then you would realize that alot of them are really just one big family.

[LaW]

Originally posted by Troy
I beleive the nppl and the promoters are still going to workout a deal. I have played in NPPL tournaments since 1997. The problems (reffing, cheating, players complaining...) that have been stated about the nppl are also true and are even more of a problem in any other event that I have ever been at. The Zap AM Open has had the worst fields, reffing, and cheating of any tournament that I have ever attended. Challenge Cup in 1998 was set up so that everone would just sit back and shoot alot of paint(there was no bunkers in the center of the field). But I would like to know how many people that post these comments have ever played in a nppl tournament. Because while the nppl has its flaws it is still the best thing out there. It has the best refs the best format and most importantly the best players. The nppl may have been slow to make changes in but every year since I have been playing it has improved. In response to people who say the nppl should be more like the NBA or NFL. I think the NPPL is better than both. The NPPL alows your every day Am. team go out and play against the best players in the world. Something the NBA or the NFL will never allow.

Welcome to AO troy :) oh yeah don't forget to check the website because I'll be updating it about the nationals. I don't think we're playing before them.. Just matt and I but that's for another team we play for now. April 27th at cpx :)


On the issue at hand I can't completely make a decision here. I'd pick 5 but then again i'm not completely into nppl events because i havn't played in one yet. It sounds that the nppl is already pretty big and important. I would say it sounds like improving upon the established league would be the most direct solution to any problem... just to make it work.

[raehl]

Currently, it's the willingness to pay extra entry fees and forfiet your amateur status. That is *ALL* that makes a pro player - in fact, if my teammates at Skyball had been willing to pony up the extra $80, I'd be a pro right now too. (We play one tournament a year, skyball, so it's not like our amateur status matters any.) If you want to have a true pro league, you need to have a limitted number of teams with a financial interest in winning. They'll then do what it takes to get the best players for their teams - and you'll then know who the pros are.

Of course, personally, I think option #7 is best:

Put all those sponsorship dollars towards the college paintball league, where every single perceived problem with NPPL/PSP has already been solved.

Players are separated from the responsibility of insuring the integrity of the league but maintain ultimate control of the league by electing a Board of Directors who appoint and oversee officers. The officials do not play in the league - they are hired and paid to be officials and only officials. The league is also incorporated as a non-profit organization.

The teams have names that everyone, paintball player and non-player alike, recognize. They've built up rivalries after years of competition against each other, and due to the nature of the league, their rosters are actually fairly stable. If a freshman is playing on a team, chances are very good they'll still be there four years later.

Unlike NPPL and other proam leagues, the college league is structured to push its own growth through the college club structure. Currently about 80% of college players are college club rec players recruited and trained for college teams. Other leagues have no mechanism for creating new players in place. The added bonus for the sponsor here is that every college team represents 10 to 300 recreational players back at the school. They don't just play paintball, they run recreational clubs and outings, scenario events, their own tournaments, and in some cases their own on-campus fields.

All of the on-and-near field BS has been quashed. The teams weed out the bad-apple players before they get to the tournaments, and on the off chance one slips through, there's a structure in place to get rid of them and penalize the teams who brought them to prevent the problem from repeating. College teams keep the bad-apples away from the tournaments because they can't compete effectively if they can't recruit new players because they all quit after going to their first tournament due to the bad attitude they have to deal with. And no team wants to be the team who brought the one *** at the tournament with them either.

The college league is in a unique position to run paintball as a sport: The events are all sub-$100/team and sub-$75/case. Nationals this year is free entry/air and $65/case. That means it's MUCH closer to a situation where the athletes compete for free than anyone else.

Due to the appeal of college team names to the public and the steps the college league has taken to insure appropriate player behavior, the college league is also in a much better position to get companies outside of the industry involved.


That's just a few of the advantages I see. Of course, since I'm currently the President of the NCPA, I'm also totally biased.

But fortunately, you don't have to take my word for it. The National Championships will be on April 27th at Challenge Park Xtreme, so come and look for yourself. (Tom, since it's right near you, you don't have an excuse ;)) 35+ college teams, plus 25+ high school teams.

It's not as big as the World Cup yet, but if you come, I'm sure you'll agree that it is in many ways better.

The only downside is this only solves the problem for players around 22 or younger. On the upside through, the college (and high school) leagues create quite a few more 23 and older players for everyone else.

- Chris

[MikeCouves]

Wipe er clean. I think they should start off with maybe a different name to attract lots of attention :). Maybe they will gain sponsers again, because you need money...

[cphilip]

Believe it or not I think options one and two. How you say? Compromises!!!! and a more legitimate split of the authority and equal representation of the two groups. I personaly thought NPPL was moving in the right direction with a Pro Ref leauge formation and that could solve some of the player issues. I do not see how it all can continue if both sides are not in agreement. They need to get some good leadership in to break the stalemates. Someone who can stay neutral and even represent both sides but who lets the two factions hammer out the details. Someone to guide them towards a common ground.

[soilent green]

I think the nppl is a good Idea but it needs a little revamping I have not yet played in an nppl sanctioned event but I have been to one it seems to me their is some corruption in the organization and the refing is not always very good it depends on who is reff they need more rules on the refs.

[thecavemankevin]

Originally posted by edweird
3 and 5

A League ran by industry leads (no offence) will not lead to overall advancement and development of the sport. I see it only as a way to lead a Player league is to designate a nonaffiliated nonbiased balanced committee to make rulings and then have a deticated industry supported promotion team to find and develop ways to make the sport more public and take the violent sterotype away from it. Also once a "Pro" team league is formed the players must be undercontract with the teams and the teams must be held accountable for their team. Much like other pro sports. We cant have pro players acting like buffons and not feeling the pains of it.

basicly for a true league to work on a large scale everyone from the orginization to the player must work as a unit to get this rolling.


I don't think i could have said it better myself!

I also think that a new league should take over and scrape the NPPL. I think this league should be run by one person from every major manufacturer (AGD, WGP, 32*, Centerflag, Zap (and some honorary members such as Bill Mills)...and on and on....) and NO distributors (National PB Supply, paintballgear.com...and on..)

The manufacturers seem to have more of a player/advancement of the sport motive. I know i know that, they are also in it to make money but that is why we have honorary members on the board to help keep that goal focused on the sport.

THE NPPL HAS PASSED IT'S PRIME!


Furthermore i think paintball should maintain a PG-13 image, non of this chick on chick/dominatress deep throating a barrel. I know sex sells and i don't mind images like that KAPP girls, or Amy. I don't see crap like this at any of the major sporting events i attened (Baseball/Football/Nascar).

[DarkRipper]

Well, as a NPPL player I've been sitting on the sidelines waiting for the dust to clear.

The promoters should buy the NPPL name from the NPPL people and keep it going. It's what people know and it's what people will expect.

It'd be like AO's forums not being supported by AGD anymore and changing their name.

It SHOULD be the same, right? It probably wouldn't be.

And I agree with Kevin about the pr0n aspect of the current advertising.

DR

[DJSOLID]

You probably don't even care what my opinion is, 'cause I'm not a tourney player, but so far the sport has given me no one to look up to and I could give a flying fudge about it. I'll stick with rec ball. You all sound like a bunch of whiners to me. Money is gonna control it all. It's as simple as that. Those that front the dough will have the power in the league. The NFL or NBA is no different. Sad but true. That dosen't mean that the players can't have their own supporting organization, but it won't really mean anything. It's just not much of a spectatator sport. Making the general public interested in watching the competition should be the first goal, because they will provide the money to fund the sport through ticket sales. That means the format of the fields will have to change. Get the spectators to an area the action can be seen and make it FOR THEM!! I've seen pro tourney videos and they are alot like watching paint dry (pun intended). You can't see where the paint is going, where it's hitting or what's happening. Reformat the game so that spectator's enjoyment will come first, and you've already won this war.

[mac2k4]

how many of yall actually play in the nppl? i don't think ya should really vote on something you don't know about, but anyways richmond italia from diablo has been working on getting "X-BALL" going, its a spectator friendly format of paintball
check it out here x-ball (http://www.xballpaintball.com/)

[liigod]

5

[thecavemankevin]

I was checking out that x-ball site and that is very similar to a game formate i had in mind. It goes a bit more in depth and i really like this idea. It is truly awsome!

DJSOLID---go suck a lemon!

[nuggy43]

Of corse 5, it's the best way to go.

[Bartman]

Witht he recent price increase for tourney like Skyball and the IAO, allI can say is that me and my team are starting tolook towards something more like the NPPL's. Unfortunatly I don't see a need for the pro's in paintball, they should, and eventualy will receive there own leage and it will be run seperate from allother events that have amatures and lower players at them.

But as for suporting the NPPL, it seems like its the only real leage out there right now. I know I am going otpiss off alot of pewople with that comment, be cause I am sure that there are local and even reginal leages that are run excelently and have promiss, but, the Nppl is a 1 of a kind event right now.

I think suporting the nppl at this time maybe the only choic that players like me have. We as a team figured the IAo might have been come a better tourney this year with Diablo taking over, but it seems to me that the "promotor" is still grabbing as much money from the players as they can , almsot rapping us . There for the NPPL may be the only way to go this year. Our team wil be playing the IAO again this year,but next year I think our Dollars are going else where to events that seem to be reasonable priced.

Any ways,I am rambaling on here yet again, hope some of what I jsut said makes sence.

Bartman
Team I have no idea
www.ihni.org

[hitmanng]

I think a lot depends on how you look at the NPPL. This pretty much happened last year and I think these people that run the NPP: in name only have no pull on the people that finance and run the whole thing the promoters. The NPPL as an entity has no power but name recognition. The question is is the NPPL something you play in or watch. If it is something that the average normal tournement player wants to play in then it should stay a player run operation. This allows anyone to enter and play that was the fee and a team. Even if they embarass the crud out of themselves. There are a lot of those around. Locally we have the ICC, NAAPSA, and CPSA. If paintball wants to go to the next level you need pro's to watch and want to emulate. This takes the kind of Cash that only the promoters and advertising commercially can buy. Now since paintball is not big enough to draw a big money spending crowd that leaves promoters.
I would suggest a compremise. The players need a say or things will not be operated to there standards but so does the industry since they are footing the bill. I think a board should be produced that contains 50% player intrest and 50% promoter interest. I would suggest a promoter voted on Chairman for tie breaks since they are footing the bill.
It does not matter how this starts as a new orginization or a reorganized NPPL. Where the money ie the promoters goes they players will follow.
If the NPPL wants to they can move back to bidding on a paint sponsor and starting over without the current promoters. This will work as someone will be willing to be a part of it. But if the prizes are better with another tourney people will go.
I hope they work things out like last year but this time create a situation that avoids this next year. I read Bill Mills report on this issue last year and thought "Well I guess paintball is really just a bumch of idiots getting together to shoot each other." This makes the sport look bad and they really need to get it together.
Thanks for listening
Hitmanng
Gordon

[~Backdraft~]

I think that 5 would the best choice because this way the entire paintball community can come together and take the time to put together a paintball organization that players want yet have the promoters involved. There must be a way where we can create a fun paintball organization that is fair and is what every paintballer dreams of. This shouldn't be something rushed into, I think that the people that lead the industry need to have meetings after meetings and have serious talks and reach out to the public paintballers (like this thread) and really create the "perfect" paintball organization.

The NPPL seems like it has its problems...but thats just me and i think its time to just start over...

[raehl]

And I'm going to say it because I know. Paintball has everything it needs to get big advertising dollars - millions of participants, a sport that's easy to play in, etc - everything except image. And it isn't the image of the sport that's the problem - it's the image of some of the players we allow to represent the sport, and continue to allow to play at the top levels after they make asses of themselves over, and over, and over again. I'm amazed at the inability of supposed adults to not behave like children.

Big companies have a LOT invested in their brand names - it's called "brand equity" for the marketing not-inclined. A company that can seriously put hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars into a paintball related sponsorship and corresponding ad campaign faces the losses of MILLIONS of dollars if even one percent of their sales goes away because customers don't like the image associated with the brand.

So when potential advertisers go to tournaments and see the crap they see, they're not willing to put their brand names on the line. Too much risk.

Paintball will remain an unrecognized, unfunded sport until someone has the balls to step up and mandate good behavior. That means the players either behave themselves or the promoters or whoever else runs the league throws them out, no matter how good they are. There is not a single paintball player in NPPL or anywhere else whose talent or skill comes anywhere close to making up for the damage their poor behavior can cause.

- Chris

[MagUser4Life]

i think major paintball companies like AGD, WORR,WDP, kingman, tippman need to get together. each company can only sponser say like 5 teams and run the pro division that way. that would limit the amount of teams that can call themselves pro and make the top division more exclusive.

with fewer pro teams they could break down the teams stats and individual stats too. with set teams you could do a set season. with play offs and a national championship. doing things like that will make paintball look like a more mainstream sport which will make it easier to put it on sports shows and such. more mainstream will mean more publicity.

[Toxic Dave]

The NPPL hasn't done anything to make the events happen since about '92, '93, all of the work has been done by the promoters. There would be no "NPPL" without the PSP and the promoters when they weren't partners, it would have gone under 7 years ago if the league was running things. As for having other promoters run the NPPL events, good luck, as much as I hate to say it the only people capable of pulling it off right now is the PSP, with Rosie, Emily and Lane doing the majority of the work. Look at every major event in the US right now, they help set up or run them for the most part other than Skyball. You think the current NPPL leadership could organize an event? I dunno about that at all.

So I don't know where my vote goes, but I belive the promoters are capable of running things better than ever, and they seem to really want to know what the players want, and heck for the past 2 years things have been getting better, why would you expect that it would change now??
Dave/ Toxic Performance/ GZ Silver
NPPL PLayers since 96