Interested in a Micromag, but....

[hooloovoo]

Hey everyone. First time poster here, just found the site and I love it! Up until this point I never really had a reason to visit, as I was a "cocker only" guy. Recently however, I've been thinking more and more about how nice a Micromag would be, for speedball especially. (I love my cocker to death and it'll always be my numero uno, but it's not exactly...compact). I've pretty much figured out what I want except for one thing, which is where I figured you could help me.

Is it worth it to throw in the extra money and go with an RT valve, or would an AIR valve work fine? I know this is kind of a broad question, so let me clarify a bit. I've heard of many problems with the AIR, the biggest being shootdown. Is this as big a problem as some make it seem, or not? Other than the reactive trigger, is there any other advantage to a retro valve? I imagine some time in the future I'd like to go retro, is it best to do it now and get it over with or is it relatively easy to drop a new valve in? Will I regret not going retro right away?

I ask all of this because of the price difference, 180 or so bucks is no small amount, with which I could do some other upgrades such as an intelliframe. Not having much experience with mags I thought this would be the best place to ask. I await your wisdom...

[Potatoboy]

IIRC a stock AIR valve will start to give you shootdown at 9 balls per second.

The RT valve, while also giving you the reactive trigger, is tested up to 26 cycles per second without shootdown.

Needless to say you won't ever be firing that fast, so shootdown won't be an issue.

However, just to make sure you're aware, the RT valve will not run on CO2.

As far as "problems" with the AIR valve, most of these are caused by the addition of 3rd party aftermarket parts. Keep it stock and you should be fine.

The benchmark frame on the micromag can be fairly sloppy, so you may want to go with the intelliframe.

They're both worthwhile upgrades.

[athomas]

The biggest problem with the standard AIR valve is not really shootdown as much as it is short-stroking. Some people don't fully release the trigger before they pull it again. This doesn't open the on-off far enough to quickly recharge the front air chamber. If the trigger is pulled and released fully, the standard AIR valve will probably handle the speed at which you can pull the trigger. The retro valve doesn't have this problem because it recharges five times faster than the standard AIR valve. Therefore, even if you short stroke, the front air chamber still gets a full charge before the trigger is pulled again.

The retro valve reactiveness is due to the way it recharges. It uses tank regulator pressure to charge the front valve chamber and push the on-off/trigger back. This pressure could be around 750 - 800PSI. After the valve front is charged the trigger/on-off is pulled against the chamber pressure only which is around 350 - 400 psi. The effect is this. Pull the trigger at 4 lbs and it kicks back at 8 lbs.

If you can find someone who has a mag, try it and see how it fires for you. Many find that with the standard AIR valve and a good trigger frame, such as the intelliframe, is fine and they don't need the retro valve. Try the standard valve and if you later find that you want a retro it is as easy as taking the old valve out and dropping the new one in.

Hope this helps.

[drx975]

IIRC a stock AIR valve will start to give you shootdown at 9 balls per second.

The AIR valve has been tested to 16 balls per second before shootdown, and after that it is minimal. Don't go around saying 9 because it makes Mag's look bad. And they rule :D.

If you go retro make sure you have a fast loader, compressed air, and money to pay for all of the paint you are going to be shooting out. I play at fields and with my friends at a private field we made ourselves (and its pretty damn good), so i think getting a retro valve would be pretty useless and unfair against my spyder owning friends. Plus I would need to get a new hopper, and I dont want to until I get an intelliframe, because I shoot 7, 8 max a second, with my Minimag stock frame.

True though, a retro goes up to 26 a second before shootdown.

[MikeCouves]

I have never seen a Minimag get shootdown at 9. What about the Hyperframe video with Halo? That was with paint too.