**AO Research Team Test This Please**

[AGD]

AO/R&D

Research is continuing into ball breakage reduction modifications. We now are at the point where we understand the problem and are testing various methods to reduce it. As is often the case in test runs not all the data comes out the same. Right now we have too few data points to get a clear handle on the magnitude of the improvements.

One of the things that is absolutely clear is that a sharp corner on the front edge of the bolt impacts the ball waiting to fall into the breach next and cracks it. For identification we call this the "ball waiting". The damaged ball will sometimes, but not all the time, blow up down the barrel.

The two things we can do to reduce this problem is slow down the bolt and remove the sharp corner. Slowing the bolt requires a bunch of new parts BUT rounding the edge of the bolt you can do at home.

Before you jump to the pic I want to warn you that if you screw up your bolt we are NOT going to replace it for free. If someone does screw one up we will sell you another close to wholesale for the next couple weeks if you trade yours in.

The bolts from the factory all have slightly different sharpness to the front edge. We didn't know until recently how important this is. Actually we still don't know and that's why we are asking you to test it. We think this is why some people have breakage problems and others don't.

The fix is simple, take a fine toothed file or sandpaper and put a SMALL radius on the front outside edge of your bolt. NOT THE EDGE THAT THE SEAR CATCHES!! Its the end of the bolt that contacts the paintball ok? Before you do anything pull out a nickel from your pocket and feel the edge. We will call the nickel's edge a "5" on a 1-10 scale. Feel the edge on your bolt BEFORE you sand it and rate it from 1-10 compared to the nickel at 5. Mark this down on your data sheet. A 10 means it's much sharper than the nickel.

Now take some sandpaper or a fine file and carefully radius the front edge of your bolt and make it look like the one in the picture. Notice that there are no sharp edges left, it just rounds over nicely. The rounded edge does not have to be very big. It's important not to over do it because filing too far back on the bolt will cause more blow back. You want to just take off the sharp edge. Doing it too little should still help a lot so don't go overboard.

Now I want you to go out and play. Do an official bounce test and write down the numbers on the data sheet. This must be done just before you go out to play at the field. Tests from the day before or the day after don't count. If there is no place to bounce test it at your field just say so, it's ok.

During play take note of how many BARREL breaks you get all day and how much paint you shot. Chops don't count, that's a different problem. Barrel breaks leave the breach and feed tube clean and only have paint in the barrel. Lastly report the data back here and comment on if you broke more or less paint than usual.

A lot is riding on this test because it will determine how much more effort we put into the research. More effort means more wait time for the new mods to come out and for you all to benefit.

Once again I want to thank you all for helping with this I really REALLY appreciate it!

All of us (working our brains out) at,

AGD

[AGD]

TEMPLATE FOR DATA SHEET

Daytime temp =
Weather conditions =

Bounce Test all numbers=

Edge rating prior to sanding=

Total paint shot=
Total barrel breaks=

Better than usual? =

Comments:

[RobAGD]

Orginally posted by BlackVCG -

For those of us "tool-inclined" you can put the bolt in an 11/16" collet and chuck it in a lathe. Spin it and move a piece of 300-500 grit aluminum oxide paper in an arc motion and you'll have a nice uniform round on the end of the bolt.

[RobAGD]

Orginally posted by ProjectMag -

Question about the edge scale from 1-10 with a nickel's edge being 5. Which end of the scale means it has more of an edge?? Just trying to clarify some things. ;)

[AGD]

If you don't have a problem with breaks please compare the bolt edge with the nickel and give us a number value for the bolt's sharpness.

Thanks

AGD

[AGD]

A 10 means it's really sharp, sorry I will edit the post.

AGD

[RobAGD]

orginally popst by - TheBigRaguPB4L

Wouldn't rounding the inside of the bolt edge be more effective? Isn't that the real part of the bolt that hits the paint?

[RobAGD]

orginally post by - Manuel_FZR

I have really no Problem with breaks down the barrel (with a good barrel/paint match). I think in 10000round I have one. I use the original (short) hardnose bolt, and a Venom hardnose Thunderbolt - both are nearly the same. The edges of both are quiet round - much rounder than a nickel (something like a 3 or 2 for the original and a 4 for the Venom)
The only problem with breaks are:
1. choping (ok - user error)
2. breaking in the breach. when the bolt hits the ball, it breaks directly in the breach - not in the feed like with cops!
If this two will be eliminated (for the choping the ACE will help - but for No.2 ???), the perfect paintball-gun is born

[RobAGD]

orginallyposted by cphilip -

I think Tom is referring to the Ball that is about to (or waiting to) enter the breach not the one already in there as to the one getting cut or damaged by the outdside edge of the bolt. See?

[Riot[Z-Grip]]

Ok I may have missed something, but just to clarify: Is this a problem related only to SS longnose bolts? Or are there other bolts this experiment should be done on? Thanks.

-Riot

[BlackVCG]

ALL Mag bolts NEED rounds on the end as shown in the pic!!!

[Medusa RTD]

Daytime temp = about 80
Weather conditions = Sunny, humid
Total paint shot= 2000
Total barrel breaks= 0

I don't have any bounce test numbers because these were the conditions at a game I played the weekend befor you posted this.

Comments: My Supper Bolt (w/ added fomie) has about a sharpness of about 8 on your scale. I don't plan on sanding this because I rarely have barrel breaks.

[RT_Luver]

Should we do this to the superbolt w/ foamies?

[BowlesRacing]

On a long nose bolt mine currently looks like the difference between the two bolts in the picture (3?). I am not going to file down the edge because i do not experience a signifigant number of breaks (maybe 1 per case). I usually shoot Anarchy or other premium paint.

Hope this helps.
-Brad

[Telefragged]

I noticed a post about this yesterday here on the boards. Sounds like an interesting and quite possibly an effective fix for this kind of problem. I myself am eagerly awaiting the results.

BTW, I think its funny how Tom talked about comparing the sharpness of a nickel to the bolt, and then posted a pic of the bolts and a quarter.

[BTAutoMag]

Originally posted by AGD
If you don't have a problem with breaks please compare the bolt edge with the nickel and give us a number value for the bolt's sharpness.

Thanks

AGD

2... im basing this on the picture figuring that the bolt on the right is a 1

[Cypres0099]

I've used mostly Advantage shelled paint for about 6 months now and I've had so few breaks that I can hardly remember the last time I broke a ball.

The conditions I've played in are:

Temp: 30*-85*
Weather: Dry winter weather to humid summer weather

Bounce test: I didn't do a bounce test on all of my paint but I would say that most of them averaged around 5.

Edge Rating: I haven't sanded yet and mine is about a 4 mabye a 5 I can't really tell because my thumbs are raw from golfing.:D

Total breakage: I'm guessing 2 in 2000

Comments: I bought my mag used so it is a little older but had not seen a tremendous amount of use. Where the old mag bolts less sharp? I ask this because the only mag that I have seen break balls is a brand new one. Any other older mag owners out there having little ball breakage problems?

[RoadDawg]

My question is does this work with AGD Foamiless bolts? Mine looks nothing like the ones in the pic above. It has the metal 3 star popping above the edges. Would I do the same method of operation? Thanks

Nick

[BlackVCG]

This applies to all bolts. If you have an old style foamieless bolt, the "sleeve" of the bolt isn't as high, but the circumference of it is what you want to round. The same as shown in the pic.

[Vegeta]

I have never had a ball break down the barrel that wasn't cuased by big paint. I have never had ANY problems with the bolt hurting paint.... and I am pretty sure this is becuase the mag I own was a former Field Rental at Wacky Warriors I belive (I bought it used from a guy who bought it at a field in STL). The boll has been cycled thousands of times and is well broke in with no sharp edges, and so it preforms well. Also the spring has been cycled plenty and adds to the performance.

Tunaman also said that he once owned a field gun and it shot very smooth too. If you have a lot of problems with your marker, some may be that its just too new *?* or user error (chop via shortstroke) and I betcha you can fix your problems by for one doing what Tom posted above and also shootign some paint thru the marker. Get to know it and you wont chop as much. Wear it and you prolly won't, how did Tom put it... hurt your "Waiting balls"...


I don't wanna take my mag all apart right now (its late) but by looking at hte nose of the bolt after taking off the barrel, I'd rate my bolt about a "3"... And I have never sanded it before.

[spacemanspiff]

I just rounded the edges of my super bolt the other day. I also removed the foamie and did the same to the inside part of the sleeve. Cause I noticed how the small groves that help line up the foamie seemed to be like small points. Possibly hitting the shell and making it weak. I'm playing this saturday and will post how it turns out.

[~Backdraft~]

I have never tried rounding off by bolt but in looking at it i'd say its about a 3 or a 4. I've had this bolt for over a year and when i bought it, it was used so its an old "worn" bolt..but i rarely have problems with it.

Just last week I put 500 rounds through it (not much i know) and didn't break/chop one ball. I'm playin on the 28th and will probably put about 1000 rounds through so i'll let you know how that goes.

I hope this helps!

[toymyster]

Tom, I had a post about this!!! I did this with a long nose foamie bolt on my E-Mag and played 2 weeks ago!!! I don't have the "before" results on this!!! But here are the "after" results from what I can remember:

Temp= about 66*F
Weather conditions=N/A Indoor
Paint= old (about 3 months)Zap
Bounce= 0,2,3,0,0,0,4,0,0 (not necessarily in that order)
Other paint= Diablo Midnight
Bounce= one zero, the rest between 3 to 9
Edge rating prior to sanding= Not Available
Total paint shot= Zap=300
Diablo=1900
Total breaks= NONE
Better than usual= Absolutely

Notes: Our friend who was shooting the zap paint out of his Intimidator was having more breaks than I can remember (about 20 or 30 per hopper), He was not chopping, and the paint/barrel fit was good.

Comments: Sorry I could not get any more accurate than this. This trick does work however!!!

[spacemanspiff]

My best day ever. I played with my moded super bolt today and it rocked.:p

Temp- 75 and a little humid w/ some scattered showers.
Bounce test- wasn't able to do it
Edge rating- 7
Total paint shot- around 2000
Total breaks- 0
Better than normal- alot:D

Comments- The only thing that happened all day is I had 2 chops and thats cause I was trying something out. I'll explain in the post I'm going to do w/ pics so you can see better what I mean.

[SHAG]

hi,

Tom sometimes you scare me a little. Just Like Glenn, you both come out with these far out wacky ideas. For some stranger reason, they work! :) You are making Paintball more of a science with homework than fun and chance. Paintball is a game of chance. Yes the technology and the processes have become refined. Still the simple fact remains that chance is still there.

Chance is still there means one thing. The possibly of a window of opportunity. A window of getting your opponent out. Chance can work for you or against you. Ball breaks in the gun is part of that chance. In your gun it sucks. However in your opponents gun, you are able to take the opponuity and get him/her out.

However, as screwy as it sounds about the bolt to be rounded, it makes sense. I will probably do the bolt when I have time to sit down. However doing the paint test is going a little far. I usually break on when I hit something.

Later,
Alan

[soilent green]

my hard nose SS bolt is a 4-5 my superbolt is about a 6 I just got my superbolt back and only tried it out with about 100 rounds but so far no breaks my SS only broke like 1 in every 3000 rounds I'll let you know if I have probs with the superbolt

[ShooterJM]

Did this a long time ago.

Bolt used: Old school recessed foamie, stock

Sharpness: While I can't give exact specifics. My bolt was closer to a 7 or 8, before I sanded it down to about a 3.

Previous performance: Regardless of weather/bounce I averaged about 5-10 breaks every 200 rounds.

Post-mod performance: 0 breaks in 1000 rounds when used with foamie (new Proball), 1 break in 1000 rounds when used W/O foamie (3 month old JT)


I'll try to pick up another bolt and get new data as well.

Different bolt data:

Bolt: Old recessed Foamie, sans foamie

Pre mod edge: 8
Post mod edge: 2

Bounce test: Not sure how this is being reported. All 20 of 20 paintballs dropped on smooth concrete from 5 feet broke on the initial impact.

Pre performance: 25 breaks (excluding breech breaks) in 1000

Post performance: 0 breaks in 1000

Great upgrade!

[hitech]

I don?t know when I will be able to play next, but I thought I would post my previous experiences (you can always ignore them ;) ). I almost never break paint down the barrel. Excluding the day we played in the rain I have had at most two barrel breaks that weren?t double feeds. My ?mag didn?t break paint when my friends Angel did (same paint). I have put about 3-4k rounds of the advantage shelled paint (PMI Premium and Marblizer) that averaged a 2 in the bounce test. My bolt is about a 2, maybe 3. Definitely less than a nickel. Hope this is useful.

[toymyster]

OK, we played yesterday, and even I could not believe the results!! (Rounded Long Nose Foamie Bolt)
Daytime temp = 75*F
Weather conditions = N/A (indoor)

Bounce Test all numbers= 3,2,3,9,9,6,7,5,9,2 (32deg. team colors)
2,4,3,6,6,3,2,5,1,6 (Big ball)

Total paint shot= 4000+
Total barrel breaks= ZERO
Better Than usual? You better believe it!!!

This was by far the best performance I've had out of a paintball marker yet!! I shot just over 2 cases of paint with no breaks, at the end of the day, my battle swab was the cleanest piece of gear on me!!!

[AGD]

Thanks guys keep the data coming, sounds like we are getting good results!

AGD

[Load SM5]

Daytime temp = 75 dgrees
Weather conditions = partially cloudy, a little humid

Bounce Test all numbers= 5,4,2,6,11,11,1,3,5,6

Edge rating prior to sanding=7,sanded down to about 3

Total paint shot=1500
Total barrel breaks= none

Better than usual? = About the same, honestly. I rarely ever break a ball except for extreme circumstances. Below freezing temps.

[MantisMag]

i've got a superbolt with an edge that feels like a 6. i use RPS polar ice. i've put 2 and a half cases through it and gotten breaks twice. both times during the last game of the day. can't really figure that out. this is one of the original superbolts that's still kickin around. i got it used. don't know how much the original owner used it. i'm not gonna touch it though. i got a good thing and i don't wanna screw it up. ;)

[AGD]

I didn't get much help on this one. For those of you who participated you will not be forgotten. For the rest don't come begging.

AGD

[Butterfingers]

Heres my data...

Superbolt: over 5000 rds FA testing and over 6000 rds playtime at 20 BPS no barrel breaks. 4 chops all during FA testing. The superbolt has a rounded edge I left a little delrin "raise" that looks like an "o-ring" that seals aginst the barrel. Testing was done at 250 FPS and it was very common to get 3 identical chrono readings in this range consecutively.

In case you are wondering Don has a similar setup without the rounded edge and he seems to be having ALOT more breakage than me. He has also gone through 3 superbolts if I recall correctly.

I rounded mine off from the start and knock on wood over 10K rounds later no SB breakage.

I just finished turning an edge on my SS bolts Ill let you know when I get the scuba filled.

If you want more details on our setup e-mail us at support@modifiedpaintball.com

[BEEFYSAUSAGE]

well i would have helped out but im in a real back water here and havent played a game or reffed a game for about a month (field sux here)..when i do i can still post results
but i can say i only shoot marbs or proball and rarely have breaks.. 1 in 2000 or so. Well good luck Tom hope you can do better with the tests....oh im using a short nose bolt and the edge would have been a 7 and im feeding from a vl 18v shreader hopper,
BEEFY.

[the123]

Day 1
Daytime temp = 80
Weather conditions = Sunny, low humidity

Bounce Test all numbers= 5,3,3,6,7,2,8,8,4,6 Diablo Midnight

Edge rating prior to sanding= 8

Edge After Sanding= 3

Total paint shot= 2000
Total barrel breaks= 0

Better than usual? = Yes. Usually 2-4 breaks per case.

Comments: This is the stainless foamie bolt w/o the foamie--- Rounded by TK at factory.


Day 2
Daytime temp = 45
Weather conditions = Windy, Misty, Wet, RAW day

Bounce Test all numbers= 2,1,3,0,3,2,2,4,3,2 Nelson Anarchy

Total paint shot= 1800
Total barrel breaks= 1 (end of day)

Better than usual? = Yes.

Comments: Same bolt as test from day 1. Paint and gun were left in heated vehicle between games. Only player to have no problems on the team.

AGD E Mag
Warp Feed
Freak Barrel
Hyperflow Air

[the123]

I think this thread can go further.. Unless at this point this info is usless to AGD.

[Bonx0007]

Tom, I am one of the LA OPEN donut orgy attendies. It was my mag that you pull the bolt out when I told you that I was chopping alot without shortstroking and you told me that my bolt was a little too sharp you told me to sand it down. Previous to doing this sanding job I was breaking 1 in every 70shots maybe more, consistently. Now I did your mod and I went paintballing before I saw this post so I did not test the paint. I used Diablo midnight both times. and Actually my environmental stats are the same as toymysters because we went togther. The first day I did not chop until the end of the day when I realized that my wire nubbin broke.

the second day I went I shot over 2,500 rounds and I only had one break. I love my mag again. It treats me well. The beveled edge on my bolt is about as wide as the thickness of a nickel. I have a ss longnose bolt. I wish I had more info for you but I did no know that this was becoming a huge thing.
Also I played with a warp the second day. My velocity was 278 + or - 3 over the chrono at an indoor field. I think that all mag bolts produced from now on should get this rounding treatment. It did wonders for my gun. I plan on doing the same mod to my emag wghen it gets here.


the modification was done with a metal file the 150 grit sand paper and then i polished it with steel wool. I love it. O yeah I was also using plastic nubbins the second day.

I hope this helps.

[the123]

Daytime temp = 45 F
Weather conditions = 85% Humidity, overcast, mild wind

Bounce Test all numbers= 1,1,2,1,0,0,5,1,1,3 Diablo Inferno
Same bolt as previous tests. Rounded to about 2 or 3, minus foamie.

Total paint shot= 600
Total barrel breaks= 4

Better than usual? = No

Comments: Played about 6 games with the bolt with some breaks, then switched over to my Longnose foamie bolt that is not rounded and is about a 7 on the sharpness factor.
on Foamie Bolt:
Shot count= 1300
Total barrel breaks= 1

I also loaned my RT out to a teammate to use for a few games and put the 'test' bolt in it. They experienced 0 breaks in approximately 500 balls. Paint was Nel-Splat. (my RT almost always breaks paint in some fashion) :rolleyes:

[luke]

I wish I could of helped, but, I have had ZERO breaks with either of my Mags due to the bolt. I did have a few games several weeks ago when I had some trouble, but it was with my Warp, not the gun (bolt). I dialed the Warp in with the Intelli frame and can report no breaks. Besides those few games, both guns have ran flawlessly for 4 weekends (+) straight.

Approx. 5600 rounds @ 3-6 bounce (RP, Marbs, Team Colors) = ZERO BREAKS.

Long Nose rates around "3"
Short Nose rates around "6"

I'm running PF AutoMag and Vert. Feed MicroMag With and Without Warp, varying hoppers, Ricochet, Revy, & Halo.



I know this is not the info your looking for but under the circumstances (no problems :D ) it's the best I can do.

[Gecko]

Daytime temp = 60 F
Weather conditions = 10% Humidity, sunny, mild wind

Bounce Test all numbers= 5,6,4,5,3,4,6,5,5,4 Diablo Blaze
Long Nose Foamie Rounded to about 2 or 3

Total paint shot= 2000
Total barrel breaks= 0

Better than usual? = Yes

Comments: So kick ***, shooting long streams at absurd rofs with no chops or barrel breaks. I would normally get around 5 or 6 barrel burts a day but yesterday was awesome. Thanks Tom!


Emag #639
warp feed
halo
68 4500 nitroduck microreg screw in, input pressure around 800 psi
Gecko

[tomcat]

I am having awful problems with my emag with this issue. after reading AGD's experiment request I am going to try something a little different. I am going to glue an o-ring of the exact same circumference (SP?) as the front of the bolt to the front of the bolt. This will extent my short foamie bolt length a little reducing blowback, the NEXT ball will be hit by the o-ring and not the sharp edge of the bolt, AND the ball should conform easily into this foamie configuration.

That should kill a whole buncha birds with one stone.

I will post the results tomorrow...Now I just have to find some superglue!

[Load SM5]

Interesting idea but superglue, more that likely, won't hold. It seems too brittle. Maybe some sort of epoxy?

[Pand0ra]

A structural adhesive would work. Hard to find, but as strong as a weld.
I've used it to glue o-ring on glass. It's now totaly impossible to remove them without breaking the glass lol.

I'll make the test with the bolt sanded this week-end. I keep you informed.

@++

[rjvemt1]

i challenge anybody to name another pb company that puts as much work into refinin thier product as agd! thats why im automag for life! my gun is on loan this weekend (las vegas) but as soon as i get it back ill check the bolt. i dont get alot of barrel brakes though.

[toymyster]

The O-ring is an interesting idea!!! Definitly keep us posted on that one!! CA glue should work if you prep the surfaces and clean them really well with isopropyl alcohol!!!

[toymyster]

By the way, for all of us who are testing this, try to find and use more brittle paint than you normally use!!!

[Paul La Rue]

I've modified both my bolts and I'll be trying them out this Sunday in my Emag. I was having some problems with barrel breaks last time I was out so it will be interesting to see if this helps...

[Paul La Rue]

After modifying both my Longnose and Superbolt, I was still breaking paint today.

I tried a couple different batches of Zap with little luck. No chops, all barrel breaks. I'm shooting a Freak and the stock barrel.

Not sure what to say, other than it's getting very tiring to keep cleaning out my barrels...

[AGD]

Thank you everyone for replying. We are working on the problem as we speak. Please stand by.

Thanks

AGD

[tomcat]

I tried using the o-ring on the front of my bolt. As suggested by several other people, the superglue was too brittle to last for an extended period of time. However, while the o-ring held I did not get any breaks in the barrel. 3 HALO hoppers full. I am going to try using the glue the others suggested next time and see what occurs. I am also going to try sticking two together to extend the length of the bolt so reduce ball slap.

I tried using a short nose foamie bolt that AGD was kind enoght to send. I filed the nose down so it looked like the one in the AGD picture. Nice and smooth and dremmel polished it to make sue there was no abrasive surface. This did help a little. I still got some breaks in the barrel as I increased the string rate (about 10 bps+).

Paint used:
Challenge Extreme Brass Eagle Super brittle (It breaks if you look at it too hard!). It broke every 5th or 6th ball. Will break on wood if dropped from 3 feet.

Also tried RPS with the "new" starch shell (Don't EVER use this stuff below 55 degrees..!!!).
This broke about 1 in 30 during rapid fire.
breaks if dropped twice from 4 feet onto wood surface.

Also tried Diablo Hell fire paint. Thick gelatine coating!
Shot the best but still broke 1 per hundred at least as I shot faster (Note: always using a Vert Feed Halo Hooper)

BIG OBSERVATION>>>>

Some paintballs were dimpled. If the dimple was on the side of the paintball where the ball detente is, the ball would slip past the ball detente closer to the barrel. This allowed the ball to move forward about an eighth of an inch (5-7mm). This means that the ball is really getting slapped by the bolt and could potentially lead to the ball breaking as it enters the barrel. I also saw a number of breaks in the breech (but I did say the paint was brittle!!..except the diablo stuff)

Also thought about putting rubber at end of bolt instead of o-ring. I am concerned about that because a softer rubber might hit the next ball in line and make it jump (kinda like blow-back/ jumping up and down on a trampoline sort of thing) and then get chopped when it goes to feed.

Also, I made a mould (SP?) of the breech (vert feed) out of clear glass/resin so I could watch the balls feeding using a high speed digital camera (borrowed from school!). I am going to try it out this weekend so I can see what actually happens.

Better end this..getting too long!

[tomcat]

If the end of the bolt is breaking the next ball in line then it must be at the point I have circled in the diagram. That is because the gap between the ball being shot and the front of the bolt leaves a gap wide enough for the next ball to fall into, and get hit hard enough to break. (See "A")

A better solution then would be to make the front of the bolt concave (See "B"). This would be an advantage in two ways.
1. The ball is hugged as it is fired which steadies the ball and puts less stress on it at a single impact point.
2. It removes the gap that the next ball would fall into preventing breakage.

What do you guys think!

[BTAutoMag]

well i think that you should delete one of your posts. i got it in the first one:D and the whole concave idea is what a venturi bolt is about.

[Bonx0007]

Tooo add to what bt said... I was under the impression that the bolt never touchd the ball in the chamber only the ball on deck. The air moves the ball out of harms way before the bolt has a chance to even touch it. correct me if i am wrong.

[tomcat]

Don't know about the whole venturi thing really. I am just looking at it from a logical perspective..ie. It just seems to make sence!

AGD was asking us to file the sharp edge off of the front of the bolt so that it would not crack the next one in line; thus, we should assume that the bolt IS hitting (or rubbing) the next ball in line. Also with the advent of things like the HALO hopper you will notice that the hopper virtually pushes down several balls and will not allow them back in the opposite direction (great for bunker maniacs who go to shoot vertically and find the ball went back into the hopper); this also prevents the balls being allowed to blow back up the hopper after each shot (blowback is generally not a good thing!).

I think that the ball that is in the breech actually comes in contact with the bolt initially atleast. Otherwise why bother inventing the foamie bolt in the first place :)

[toymyster]

The paintballs can generally withstand the impact of the bolt, as long as the bolt did not cut them while they were waiting to be chambered!!!

[tomcat]

Yes, you are right. The ball can generally withstand the force of the bolt hitting it. Otherwise atleast 90% of the markers out there would not work ;)

I have read up on Venturi bolts over the last couple of days. My idea for the bolt is different to what the venturi bolt was designed for as I would dismiss the Venturi bolt based on its design as an improved flow path. In my mind flow has little to do with improved velocity to pressure ratios (other than to alter the temperature of the gas sometimes).

The importance of my idea is that it prevents the gap that the next ball on deck can fall into (most important because that is what is cutting the balls I think).
This means that the ball will not get chopped and is less likely to jump up and get chopped when it gets out of sync with the next bolt shot because everything will be smoother.

Any other benefit that the concave shape may have is relatively unimportant in this case!

Forget about the theory of flow paths and start thinking "fill the space and calm the ball"!

[xmetal2001]

just incase you still need results:

Daytime temp = ? about 75
Weather conditions = Partly-Cloudy

Bounce Test all numbers= I don't have all the numbers but if iremember this is about a 3 boucne paint

Edge rating prior to sanding=7
After sanding=3

Total paint shot=1000
Total barrel breaks= 1

Better than usual? = A little.

Comments:

[Strider]

UP! :eek:

[Jonno06]

can someone please give me a step-by-step on how to sand down the bolt?

i really dont want to mess the bolt up before I play with it one time....

ill put up the info after i play this weekend....

[X-Plosive]

Well the superbolt edge is about a 5. I haven't chopped in atleast 2 months and haven't had a barrel break for about 6. I play around 3 times a month:)

[Brian68mag]

Standered SS bolt,
60 Degrees
Paint Kick'n and Superswirl(rofl ran out at the shop)
Superswirl test "1,0,0,1,2,0"
Kick'n "2,3,3,2,2,4"
500 SS shot and 1000 Kick'n
NO BREAKS, OMG, the shockers, timmies and matrix's broke balls and i broke NON.
Amazing stuff tom..

[Bwaites]

Ok Tom,

Caught on to this a little late, but...

Weather 60 degrees, raining intermittantly, very lightly.

First Paint RPS Premium Advantage

Bounce: 7,7,7,9,3,3,7,5,6,7

Emag with modified foamy Superbolt: about 2-3 in scale

3 break in 25 shots all in barrel, oops checked only one ball for size, rechecked paint size and change to slightly larger bore CP, No breaks in next 400 shots, shot straight and chronoed 270.

Classic Feed Automag with modified longnose, not foamy, about 2-3 in scale. (My sons gun, him on trigger)

No breaks in 300 balls.

Second Paint All Star Advantage

Bounce 2,3,3,3,6,7,3,3,5,4

Emag as above: 2 breaks in 500 balls, both in breech (chops). I checked ten balls for size first!

Classic Feed Automag as above: 3 breaks in 300 balls, 2 in breech (chops), one in barrel.

Hope that helps. This was fewer ball breaks than when we normally play, but the weather is a little warmer.

My electronic trigger is on the fritz, so this was all on manual, Halo on the Emag, Brass Eagle 12 Volt Viewloader on the Classic.

Bill

[JasonNeal]

sorry to interrupt all this flow of info for you tom. this sounds like an awesome way to improve a marker. i dont have a mag though, i have a black dragun. i just wanted to make sure that this can be done to ANY bolt, not just any mag bolt, right? i would prefer waiting for a reply to not waiting and crunking up my bolt :D. thanks to whoever can answer this for me.

jason

[Bonx0007]

Some people have to blaze the trail. Try it out.

[RT_Luver]

If I had a gun I would do this. I might with my dads RT PRO. I'll post the results if I do

[BlackVCG]

This should be done to the bolts on ALL guns. Since they all work the same way and if the outside edge is sharp, it will fracture the next ball inline. Granted most of the other bolts don't rotate like the Mag bolt, it won't hurt anything to round the entire circumference of the bolt face on bolts in guns where the bolt doesn't rotate.