ATTN...sifu01

[JRSJKD]

Was just reading through some posts and saw your screen name. It caught my attention and then I saw your sig. As you can see from my screen name ...we share similar intrsts :D Just curios as to where you train/teach and who your an instructor under. I'm in L.A. and train with Guru Dan.

Junior

[Rocp15126]

and train with Guru Dan.

Wow! That's awesome! Talk about learning from the source! I am also into MA. I'm in Pennslyvania and after I start college (yet again!) I plan to find a FMA/JKD instructor in the area.



Rocp15126

[MantisMag]

i know what jkd is what's fma? by the way i study seven star praying mantis kung fu.

[Rocp15126]

FMA = Filipino Martial Arts


I haven't had the pleasure of experiencing seven star praying mantis. The little I know of it is from articles in magazines by Sifu Jon Funk.

[ScoobYSnax]

I was going to join a local Kung Fu Academy (Vermont) that teaches a variation of Praying Mantis. Due to time and money, however, I was unable to do so. In the summer, however, I might pick it up. How do you like it Mantis? How long have u been studying? Thanks...

[MantisMag]

i like it a lot. i've been practicing for a little over three years now. it's a high level style so it incorporates parrys and using your opponent's energy against him as opposed to blocking and straight forward attacks. but it's on the lower end of the high level styles so there are some linear attacks as well as the circular.

the various mantis styles are very different. of course all of them claim to be the original. i think it's likely that 7star was the first though. either that or southern mantis. the story is fairly common that the originator of praying mantis originally studied other styles. 7star incorporates a lot of monkey style footwork. there are hand techniques from several styles. southern mantis seems to be a purist form. looks more like a real praying mantis than any other style. very little footwork. bladed hands. there's also eight flashstep. (i might be wrong on the number eight.) just as the name implies there's a lot of very quick fancy steps in it. there are several others but i don't know what the key characteristics of those are. oh there's a tai chi mantis too. obviously very flowing and soft. oooo. and there's a drunken mantis style. very cool. hehe. there's more that i'll probably remember later but i'm gonna stop there. if you have any other questions or want me to elaborate more on anything i'll be happy to post more. just ask.

[Mango]

Haha yeah MantisMag is insane, he knows his stuff and I would not like to be on the reciving end of his kung fu. When I would just play spar with him I would get punched in the gut about 4 times and get my arms tied in knots! haha. Amazing stuff.

I studied Wing Chun for a while, but forget it all now. hahah. :(

[MantisMag]

thanks for the vote of confidence john. :) you should learn something. with your size and strength you could really do some damage. don't know if mantis would be right for you. i don't know if you would be able to pull it off with all those damn muscles in the way. ;) i think muay thai would be good for you. i could definitely see you doing muay thai.

[JRSJKD]

ROCP
There are some good silat instructors out there in PA. Went to a couple of seminars out there when I was still studying Bukti Negara in MI. Pendekar De Thouars was awesome......really funny too!

Mantis......just curious as to what constitutes a high or low level style? I always wanted to learn some Mantis......if for nothing else that to get some of those energy drills....not sure which particular one they are from or if the enrgy drills are indigenous to all of the mantis forms. Cool stuff either way.

Junior

[MantisMag]

high level styles are those that use your opponent's energy against him. usually this involves grappling but not always. parries are used instead of blocks. (parries redirect a blow instead of attemting to stop it) these styles are almost completely defensive. offensive moves are very basic. once your opponent commits himself however there are many counter attacks and combinations you can use. the main thing about high styles is the efficiency. you don't need to be very strong. not much effort is required to use them. chi cultivation is also very important in most high styles.

a low level style is just the opposite. attack and defense are straightforward and use physical strength to be effective. moves are deliberate and forceful. everything is at right angles.

traditionally people started by learning a low style to learn the basics of punching and kicking. also to build strength and endurance. then a high level style would be learned. true masters always fought using a high style. low styles were only for training.

here are some examples of high and low styles.
low styles: tiger, monkey, hung gar, karate, tae kwon do
high styles: dragon, tai chi, aikido

[JRSJKD]

This is not a flame ....so please take it with a grain of salt......

I think to classify any style or system as a high or low level is a gross mis-characterization. The whole hard vs. soft debate has been around since before you or I were on the planet. I think that if you were to train for three years in a "low level" style you may come away with a different mind set and even may find alot of merit. To start to say that one system is better than another is to start to close your mind to new ways of thinking.

"True masters used high level......." thats way to broad and sweeping a statement.

In my experience, there are GREAT Martial Artist's, not great Martial Art's. You have to find what works for you. What works for me may not be good for you. To that end how can we say that one martial art is better than another.

Anyway....look forward to some good dialog...

Junior

[MantisMag]

ahhhhh but i never said it was actually better. and i said fought not fight. past tense. that is the way it used to be. i was talking about the traditions of shaolin because that is what i know the most about. you see low level styles didn't fit in with a buddhist mentality. buddhists were pacifists so they didn't actually want to fight. they were able to justify low level styles as simply being physical training. high level styles were justified because they are defensive in nature. therefore the true shaolin master wasn't actually fighting. he was simply refusing to accept an antagonist's negative energy and instead turning it back on him. the harder someone attacked a shaolin priest the worse he got hurt. but it wasn't the priest's doing. it was his own negative energy that hurt him.

i would never presume to say my style is better than someone else's. even if i personally thought so i would never say it. that would be disrespectful to those who practice it, work hard at it, and enjoy it. everybody has their own style that is natural to them. i even suggested muay thai to my friend sprayingmango here. that is a low level style. because of his build i think that would be an easier and more natural style for him to learn. everybody is different. and there are so many different martial arts that i think just about anybody can find one to suit them. each has their own strengths and weaknesses. all of us must find our own path. thank you for bringing this up. i probably should have explained all of this in my last post. hope this clarifies a few things. :)

[MantisMag]

just remembered. i forgot to mention that there are some styles that bridge the gap between high and low. once again i'm going to be talking about shaolin. usually a student of shaolin after practicing some low level styles would have a firm grasp of the basics. before moving on to a high level style they would learn snake style. snake style is considered a low level style because of its strikes. they are vicious jabbing attacks with the fingers to soft areas of the body. there is no using the opponent's energy but there is misdirection and parries. snake is considered a bridge from low to high style but it is more on the low side. mantis was usually the first high style because it has many techniques from low level styles. straight punches and other attacks are common in mantis. however these are only part of the system. there is also grappling and redirection of energy. therefore mantis is considered on the lower end of the high level styles. so high and low levels can contain elements of each high and low. the determining factor is that redirection of energy. no style is completely high or low. every style has its yin and yang. soft and hard. mind and body.

[Rocp15126]

MantisMag

Does your Sifu teach strickly Seven Star or do you learn any other styles/weapons? If I remember correctly from one of my JKD texts, there is energy drill from Mantis Gung fu - the Harmonious Spring Drill. Do you practice Chi Sao and trapping?


JRSJKD

I would gladly train in Silat, unfortunately I cannot locate any schools in the Pittsburgh area! The Dojos and Kwoons here seem to be primarily TKD,Karate and Judo. Which is fine, but I'm looking to experience new ways of training. Lately I've been reading a lot of FMA, JKD, Gung-fu, and Aikido text just to keep thinking and looking at things in other ways. All of this talk is inspiring me even more to start training again! Thanks!

[JRSJKD]

I hate to say it but I haven't been able to train much lately either due to my school schedule :(

[MantisMag]

my sifu only teaches 7star mantis. it's enough for now really. he knows something like 43 fist forms and 26 weapons. i think that's what he said. i've learned 15 of the fist forms and 3 weapons forms. i've learned 2 staff and 1 broadsword. my next weapon is going to be double broadsword. eventually i do want to learn other styles. mostly animals. tiger, snake, and dragon are all on my "to do" list. ;)

not sure about that drill. we might have done it and he just never told us the name.

if chi sao is what i think it is then no we don't practice it. could you give a brief description of what you mean so i could tell you for sure?

trapping is integral to praying mantis. probably about a third of our moves involve trapping. most of the other 2/3 involves grappling. :)

[JRSJKD]

While I've enjoyed learning other weapons........the FMA have got to be to most efficient and practical I've ever seen. Learn the single stick, double stick(siniwali), and some long and short(espada y daga), and you can use it anywhere. Need it to protect yourself, no prob, its the same idea whether your empty handed or pick up a broomstick. No need to learn a million different weapons. Beautiful in its simplicity.

Junior

[MantisMag]

you do know those are all based on japanese swordfighting right? ;)

[JRSJKD]

Actualy NO they're not. Most of the arts are indigenous although the early Spanish occupation of the Phillipines had a VERY heavy influence in the blade fighting we see today. Particularly Espada y daga, which obviosly is in reference to the Espada's( a type of sword from Toledo spain), and how they usually fought witha dagger in the other hand at the same time. We usually refer to this as the long and short because many times we will use sticks instead of training blades.

As far as where the arts came from,I think its a largely accepted misconception that all arts came from Japan or China. Unfortunately, no one is absolutely certain ofo rgins of the phillipines the currently supported theory is that the first peoples in the phillipines were the Negrito pygmy's. They would have migrated there across a land bridge that was believed to be in existance around 25000-30,000bc(it was a land brigde from what would roughly be considered Taiwan to what is now Luzon). They then believe that around 5,000-3,500 b.c. there was a large influx of indonesians into the phillipines. This migratory wave was belived to last for around 13 centuries. However this theory has some major issues with anthropologist and paleontoligist's. For instance it presupposes that the islands were uninhabited prior to the arrival of the pygmy's and then followed by waves of indonesians. They have since found remains of a woman dating back to around 22,000 b.c. which hurts the first thoery. Anyway, there is a lot of arguing about the whole thing. The one thing agreed upon is that as these cultures abilities to travel accross water became more advanced the trade between indonesia and the phillipines increased thus enabling a very large mingling of cultural influences including Islam.

While anthropologist's do note a huge Chinese influence around 618-906b.c. you will hard pressed to find anything to support a statement that the arts of the Phillipines are based on the Japanese sword. That's like saying Native American, or Indian(India) art's came from Japanese judo or jiu-jitsu.

You will always be able to find things/techniques among different arts that are similar. It would be easy to say "Hey, That's from such and such!", but in reality, there are only so many ways to punch, kick, trap, grapple, lock, choke, etc. To be honest, for any one system to claim to have been the origin of any of these things(any technique in the end is only body movement and we all have the same bodies), is purely arogance. As you train and perhaps move on to other martial arts outside the influence of your current art, you will see this. It's only natural.

Junior

[Rocp15126]

Since you mention trapping, you probably practice chi sao (sticky hands)or a form of it. Chi Sao is the wing chun terminology for sticky hands. It looks a lot like two people "rolling" hands against one another. The grappling you practice is it like China or Shuai Chao?

the Filipino people have been influence by many different cultures. I would say FMA is more like fencing than Japanese sword techniques. (Heavy influence by the Spainards) For a better answer read Mark Wiley's Filipino Martial Culture. (Excellent book!)

As far as FMA- I absolutely love it! I still break out my sticks and practice!

[MantisMag]

sorry i was misinformed. someone once showed me something that he said was fillipino stick fighting. it was very obviously based on japanese sword fighting. he confirmed this when i asked him and even told me the geneology of some of the techniques. i thought this was the same style that you were talking about. sorry.

[JRSJKD]

Inevitably, it all looks and is relativly similar. Guy a swings at you from this direction. No matter what art you practice hard/soft, internal/external, punching/kicking, a/b, this, that, or the other.............there are only so many things you can do!

Junior

[JRSJKD]

ROCP...
One of the things I love about FMA is how extensive the trapping is. While not as structured as say wing chun its still as prevalent if not more.

We sometimes won't do chi sao for a while and then Guru will just bring it back out one day........man, talk about sore shoulders!!!

I also thought that Wiley's book was good, but very opinionated and biased only towards the instructors he had trained with.

Now that you mention it.....maybe I'll grab my sticks and practice a little too. Maybe I can break another lamp :D

Junior

[Rocp15126]

do you know of any good martial arts websites?


and still no word from Sifu01?

[JRSJKD]

Can't speak for Mantis but FMA has a lot of grapling. Lots of locks both standing and on ground. The indonesian arts like silat have some really cool grappling.....unlike everything else. It's not for everyone though. Being 6'4 215lbs, Im just too big to pull some of that stuff off.

I have a couple of friends who train at the gracie schools but more and more seem to op towards the Machado's schools. Grappling is so strong, A good grappler will always have an advantage over someone with no grappling experience. Stick with it, youll find it very rewarding.

ROCP.....its pretty late , but ill see what I can put together for you tomorrow. I'm gonna call one of my friends/instructors at the academy tomoorow and see if he know's anyone in PA.

Junior

[MantisMag]

there's not that much ground fighting in praying mantis. ground fighting is something you want to avoid. once you're on the ground with somebody the outcome mostly has to do with who initially had the better position and who's stronger. there are takedowns and a few techniques that are worked from the ground but once you get to that point the fight should be over. if you haven't taken your opponent out there isn't a lot you can do except work the same techniques you learned standing up but from a horizontal position.

[JRSJKD]

That's exactly why you want to learn grappling, most fights will end up on the ground. To be comfortable and capable at all ranges is a key component of the JKD philosophy.

[JRSJKD]

there u go. Now go and learn some real boxing from a hole in the wall gym or maybe Muay Thai. that way you've got the ground game, standup/takedown, and punching/kicking. Very well rounded.

[Rocp15126]

Tae Kwon Do is a good art for the kicking range. If your looking for something to bridge the distance from any range to clinch/grappling range then you might need to learn the punching range and trapping. You don't necessarily have to learn all the ranges! I've seen plenty of fighters who are adept at closing the ranges without learning the others, but as JRSJKD said you'll be "very rounded" at all ranges. Either way make sure that you practice going from one range to another. just my two cents.

[MantisMag]

kickin is fun. :D i don't really worry too much about real fights ending up on the ground. nobody's been able to get ahold of me yet without getting punched or kicked pretty good before reaching me. i figure most people have trouble hanging onto you when their head is a foot behind the rest of their body. ;)

[JRSJKD]

As long as their skill level is below yours, you might be fine. Most systems of grappling I know of are waiting for you to punch or kick. Thats when they're gonna shoot in. They want you to kick, kicks are the easiest to shoot in on.......especially high kicks to the face. I love high kickers, its like getting a X-mas present delivered right to the front door. High kick are not only the slowest due to the ammount of distance they have to travel but also create the biggest openings. As a matter of fact, I'll bait by dropping my hands for you :D

Junior

[MantisMag]

haha. you're right. i would never kick to the head. that's just dumb. with the head snapping back part i meant a punch. but i also have a tendency to kick people in the solar plexus if they open their arms. if the guy is good obviously i don't get a chance to do that but it does happen. same with kicking. certain kicks are just very slow and if i see you winding up for one i'm just gonna kick you first. it's not really skill. i'm just very quick. in order to shoot in on me you'd have to catch me by surprise or be a LOT faster than me. so far i haven't come across anybody that fast. not saying i never will. but someone who is would be very rare.

since you're into grappling tell me. what do you do when somebody tries to move in on you? what sort of counters would you use?

[Rocp15126]

well one common kind of counter to double and single leg takedowns is the sprawl. when your opponent shoots in for your lower area, you kind of scoot your lower half back and out and use your weight and upper body half to push your opponent down. (It's hard to explain, easy if you see it)

I have also seen people use a hip toss/sacrifice throw and a firemans carry to counter a grappler's initial shoot. Of course if your not a grappler you probably don't want to try a throw.

If I can, I like to roll backwards with the opponent into my guard, lock my legs, get him into a neck crank/gillotine.


If I don't want to grapple and keep him at range I might try a finger jab to the eye or an oblique kick to the shin/knee/foot.

[MantisMag]

Originally posted by vf-xx
I suppose it just matters what your personal skill level is.(but isn't that the case in everything?!) so true. :)

rocp- i tend to use that first one a lot. i usually hit him in the back of the head instead of pushing though. a fist or elbow to the back of the head/neck really hurts. unless your opponent is a real psycho it'll also probably disorient him. if he's hopped up on drugs or something and can't feel it then you're royally screwed. i hope i never fight somebody in that condition.

[JRSJKD]

Theres a million different answers for that. One, grappling is by far NOT my favorite. I bother to learn it because its so popular right now and because its popular you need to know how to defend against it should it arise. The best way to learn how to defend against anything is to train in it. Then youl have an understanding of what the mindset is like. One of the biggest reasons why grappling is so good is because in order for anyone to use striking of any kind you must bring yourself close enough to hit that person. If you can hit me, I can grab you. It really is that simple. Grappling happens, standing up or on the ground. The grappler will always have the advantage cause he just want to get close to you. If you want to hit him, you'll be doing exactly what he want's you to do. Not that there aren't things you can do to someone shooting in on you, but they also involve grappling. Learning how to fight while tied up is very important. If some guy tries to mug you while your going to the bathroom at a rest stop, are you really going to prevent him from grabing you? Gonna have room to kick? Just some thoughts....

BTW, I give very little consideration to one stop hit's. Having kicked boxed in a ring and both knocking someone out and having been knocked out, in addition to stick fighting with very minimal gear(Dog Bros. stlye down a notch or two), it takes much more than you think to drop someone when they are full of adrenaline. Likewise, I think you would be amazed at what your body can take without realising it.

[Rocp15126]

Well, honestly having my opponent "roll" into the guard is something I would do on someone who wasn't a "experienced" grappler. (or a least if he didn't appear experienced.) My grappling education is pretty much limited to several months of ju-jutsu practice and a whole lot of just horsing around with people. I would say I know enough to handle someone unfamiliar with grappling, and maybe give an experience grappler a very very very light sweat before he ripped me up. (hopefully I'll keep him at bay before he gets me.) I tend to like to avoid grappling only for three reasons. 1) depending on the situation, its hard to take on multiple opponents while grappling. I have seen it done, but it's not something I think most people can do. 2) Grappling in the street or a backalley can get you torn up by gravel, glass, etc. Of course this could happen in a normal fist fight also. 3)I like to stay mobile, and be able to run if the opportunity presents itself. Although I prefer not to grapple, I do realize that I should learn how to.

VF-XX
quick question- do you wear ear protection when you grapple? There have been several times when I was grappling that my ears would get pulled or slammed. Man that hurts!

Mantis
thankfully I've never had to fight with anyone on drugs! I think that learn to grapple might help you out here. Then again you sound like you know when to pick your fights and when not to.

[vf-xx]

No I don't use ear guards. I used to use a mouthpiece, but with my allergies acting up I can't breath well with it in. So i'm not really wearing any safety gear at the moment. Then agian i'm only training, i'm not doing any tournaments or anything like that.

The other nice thing about grappling is that once you close the distance strikes become useless. Your opponent can't get enough room to swing to be able to do any serious damage. I know I've tried.

Groundsparring is useful for ending fights cause no matter what your on when you loose bloodflow to the brain you pass out. Period.

As for multiperson fighting, I'm still not sure of it myself. Klay (my instructor) has told sories of him doing it sucsessfully, but I'm just not convinced yet.

Personally I've never been in a real fight. Nor do I ever plan on being in one. This is just for fun and exercise for me. That it has practical applications only makes it a better choice.

[JRSJKD]

Hey guys......I'm not saying grappling is the end all, be all. What I am saying is that just as guys have already done here, in posting many different situations, don't fall into one kind of thinking. What I mean by that is that no one art has all of the answers. They may have very good response under certain circumstances, but may be totally wrong under others. In real world situations a lot of times grappling isn't the best bet. What I have personally seen however is that people who are not trained in any form of fighting instinctually grab for you or want to wrestle. When I say grappling I'm also not necassarily talking about rolling(guard,top/side mounts, etc.). If your just training for fun ok, but if your training for self defense you REALLY MUST train in more than one style/art. From my friends who have taught at the F.B.I academy, statistically speaking, over 80% of all fights will end up on the ground. In addition to that another 70% of all assaults involved a weapon of some sort.

Personal advice, if you roll alot, check out some earguards, califlower ear doesn't go away after it hardens :( I dont wear one but, I always wear a mouth guard. Accidents happen and a good mouth guard is way cheaper than the dentist.

BTW, I had a friend knocked out while doing Vale Tudo type grappling. That's kickboxing all the way down to submission. They were both on the ground when he was hit. You CAN be hurt by punches on the ground. Broken ribs are also very easy to come by......

[MantisMag]

lol. so none of us has actually ever been in a fight. most of my "real fight" stories come from my sifu. he used to work as a bouncer. i forget what he said the guys were on but he told me horror stories of guys who would fight while their faces were all smashed in and they had broken ribs, hands, arms, legs. they'd still keep fighting cause they couldn't feel anything. and they'd fight almost as hard as if they weren't hurt at all although obviously with some loss of mobility. i'm not sure if choking would work on one of these guys cause how do you hold someone like that? if he doesn't care about not being able to breathe and doesn't care if he hyperextends some part of his arm or dislocates his shoulder then how are you supposed to control him? i think i would go for the legs. try to break something and then run away.

most of the techniques i talk about come from "what would you do if..." games with my friends. we'll try something and do it lightly. if it hurts when you do it light doing it hard to somebody will definitely make them reconsider whether fighting with you is a good idea. ;) multiple person grappling i imagine would be the same as any other multiple person fighting. the key would be to keep moving. when you hit someone hit them hard and fast. then move on. try not to let too many of them get an angle on you at once. try to get them to interfere with each other. if you really think you're in danger do whatever you have to in order to disable them. break, hyperextend, dislocate, whatever it takes. i've been trained to do these things in a fight. that's one reason why i always avoid fighting. i don't want to send someone to the hospital. especially over some of the stupid things that people fight over.

[vf-xx]

actually our chokes aren't done to the windpipe (or aren't supposed to) we aim for the arteries right next to it. Knock some one out within seconds when locked in right. In this case its not a matter of pain, but a matter of lack of blood to the brain. I don't think that drugs can do much agianst that.

I beleive the drug he's talking about is PCP. I've heard stories about that too. Scary stuff.

[MantisMag]

yeah i think it takes something like 30 seconds. my point was how do you hold them there long enough for them to pass out? if he can't be controlled by twisting his arm or some other kind of hold how do you keep him in position long enough to knock him out?

[vf-xx]

I"ve heard that it takes much less than 30 sec. I don't know personally, but according to Klay it can take as little as 1 sec.

Holding people down is easier for me because it's hard to move 285 lbs that's sitting on your chest. not impossible, but hard.

[MantisMag]

oh yeah. that's not the same thing though. somebody told me about that point. there's a spot on your neck, some sort of gland or something. if you put a few pounds of pressure on it with something like a finger jab the person will pass out. some sort of defense mechanism. it's a small spot though. you've gotta jab it with two fingers. it's different from trying to pinch the blood vessels. i had forgotten about that move because i didn't plan on ever using it. :p anyway. yeah it is possible to knock them out that way but doing it through blood starvation takes something like 30 seconds. long enough for your brain to use up whatever oxygen it already has and then get denied fresh blood.

[vf-xx]

no, I"m talking about blood starvation, not pressure points.

I don't see it taking as long as 30 sec. I've had stuff locked in pretty well on me and I start to black out pretty quick. Sit down and time 30 sec sommetime. It's a lot longer than you'd think. I"m pretty sure that you can do it in less than that.

[MantisMag]

well i don't have much experience with it but i'm just trying to figure it out based on what is physically happening. simply cutting off blood flow wouldn't knock someone out that fast. i'm thinking maybe if you were moving around and got your heart rate up. and then close off the veins but leave the arteries open (not that hard to do since veins are closer to the surface). then pressure would build up in your skull pretty fast and make you dizzy and pass out. probably within 10 secs you would feel dizzy. coin toss on whether or not you pass out. depending on how fast your heart is beating at the time. also if you're thinking real hard your brain will use up more oxygen. :p

[vf-xx]

I'm not quite sure HOW it works, I just know that it does. Somcething silly about voulnteering to let people try chokes on me :D.

[Tactical Neural Implant]

I have to agree with VF-XX, I have been in a triangle lock several times almost to the point of passing out. After about 2-3 seconds you start to black out. That's why it so important to tap when you feel whoozy, and why you should pay attention to your grappling partner. Some chokes do take awhile depending on how much you resist. Generally speaking when your applying a choke on someone you are in a "superior" position, which is deceptive to non-grapplers. (high school wrestlers love to turn their back to me because thats how they train. Ask VF-XX what happens if you give him your back in a grappling match!) The superior position gives you a better chance of pulling off your hold. (while in the guard your on the bottom and it may appear that the opponent above you has the advantage, but that's not the case.)There are counters to every hold and position but not everybody knows them or can apply them. Truthfully, the best bet in my opinion is a combination of Mantis' style with grappling. If your in the mounted position and can soften him up with several blows to the head, it will be that much easier to choke him out.

Some holds don't choke but hyper extend joints or muscles. (ankle locks, gilotine,etc) Obviously this might not stop
a drug possed man but it may make it easier to restrain him until some help comes along. I have seen/used pressure points to escape from holds so it pays to know them.

Oh and I forget the actual definitions but the difference between a choke and strangle is that one cuts out oxygen from your brain, the other blood to your brain
.
RocP15126 aka: Tactical Neural Implant (different computer and location.)

[vf-xx]

Ick yeah, the triangle is nasty! Personally i'm still working on things to do from the back, but if you're wearing a gi or a jacket i've got some pretty nasty stuff.

I'm not trying to down play strikes, its just that we don't train them in my class. This is because we don't use them in tournaments. Real life is much different. Thats what makes the mounted position so much better. You can easily hit them, but it's much harder for them to get any powerful shots in.

Rocp15126: Have you learned the knee in the stomach type mount yet? That's what we've been working this week, it's soo much fun and gives you great leverage for some chokes.

[Tactical Neural Implant]

I haven't learned that position yet. Could you describe it? In my opinion, BJJ is probably one of the best grappling arts out there. I'd probably put judo up there also. Most of the Japanese ju-jutsu I've seen definately concentrates more on the stand up grappling game. I'm not bagging on it, just that it's not in the ground grappling game. Has anyone studied any other grappling arts? sambo, freestyle, etc?

Mantis,
Do you study pressure points in your art? Do you study like chi flow and meridians or just the specific human pressure points?

JRSJKD
I recently got some Paul Vunak tapes. Man he's awesome! Have you /do you study Kina Mutai?

[vf-xx]

Knee in the stomach: Pretty simple, you put one shin across their stomach or pelvis keeping your toes on the ground and mold your foot to thier side. You use your other foot to stablize the base by keeping it out behind and slightly to the side of you. Make sure that the stabilizing foot is parralel to your opponent.

It's much easier to show than to explain in words. but it's a great attacking position.

[MantisMag]

no we don't use pressure points in mantis style. or at least my sifu hasn't taught us any. we mostly attack the joints and soft areas of the body. knees, elbows and shoulders. eyes, neck, temples, smallest rib, and groin. thsoe are the target areas we usually go for. the wrists are also used as a control point.

most of what i know about pressure points comes from a friend who studied in japan. he mastered several styles while he was there. when i say mastered i mean he really mastered not just worked his way up to black belt. one of his senseis actually wanted him to be the school's emissary to the states. these guys studied hardcore. when they did choking and strangling they didn't do them to tapout. they did them to unconsciousness. that way they know just how much it takes and what it feels like. same with those pressure points. when he says he can knock someone out with a finger jab he means it. he's actually done it. not somebody you wanna mess around with. ;)