Who was right?

[paint magnet]

Okay, last time I played, I was playing agianst a not so nice player who thought that I was mean and I thought that he was cheating. Anyway, the first time, he was in a small "house", about 3x3, where he couldn't get out without me hitting him. He stuck out his gun, with no barrel plug visible, but did not point it at me. I took this to mean that he was wanting me to waste my paint shooting his gun (gun hits didn't count), so I shot his gun a couple times. About a minute later, he stands up, and starts to move out of the bunker, with no paint on him, and having never called himself out or never having raised his hand in the air. I shot him twice and he ran out of the bunker screaming at me and said "Do you see that?! (referring to a barrel plug which was not in his gun) Do you know what that means?!" And I told him that I had not seen a plug in his gun and that he had not called himself out. Upon hearing that, he pulls the plug out of his now plugged rental and shoots me twice in the googles from 3 feet while walking to the dead zone. I told the ref after the game, but he didn't do anything about it since he was a newbie. Then, later on in the day, we were playing a woods course called the bridge (attackers have to get one man over the "bridge") when I was up against four players on the other team. I was hiding behind a skinny tree when the same guy ran towards me. I shot him twice in the chest, and they both broke. He continues to run and hits the ground about 10 feet in front of me. I called a paintcheck on him, but the ref didn't hear. I assumed since I was using a thin shelled paint and he had on canvas overalls that he might not have felt it, so I shot him in the shoulder. He did nothing except start to raise his gun, so I shot him in the other shoulder and in the top of the head, and one in his arm. Then, he gets up yelling that he's tired of me overshooting him and calls me a bigshot, then he shoots twice at me. I reply that I was tired of him shooting after he was out and not calling out when he was obviously dead. I think that if someone is not willing to stand up, or call themself out, or at least raise their hand then I will keep shooting until they do. What do you think? Was I right to keep shooting?

[theraidenproject]

it sounds like you were ok. What isnt ok is when people shoot at you when you're fishing for your barrel condom with one arm, when your gun is straight up in the air with the other arm. arrrgh.

[RT pRo AuToMaG]

you can shoot untill they call themselves out. if they don't call themselves out, empty a hopper or 2 on them.

[Steve Crush]

hmm seems yer refs you have there aren't the best in the world. I would actually call it over shooting ;/. just if you see gun and hand in the air and no plug keep an eye on him. if you shoot him twice and you know 100% they broke and he does what he did well i would do the same keep an eye on him, if he shoots you still (dead man walking) and the ref won't do anything goto the manager or owner and complaign.

steve

[AGD]

Newbee's have a different perception of the game than you do as an experinced player. Their lack of experience puts them in slow reponse mode. You have to expect that when you play against them and back off accordingly. Holding your gun up is a universal sign of surrender not an invite to shoot it. You could of at least given him the benfit of the doubt. I would recomend not playing with newbee's.

AGD

[speedballbanks]

Originally posted by AGD
Newbee's have a different perception of the game than you do as an experinced player. Their lack of experience puts them in slow reponse mode. You have to expect that when you play against them and back off accordingly. Holding your gun up is a universal sign of surrender not an invite to shoot it. You could of at least given him the benfit of the doubt. I would recomend not playing with newbee's.

AGD

so basically it is like playing a drunk man?? correct me if i am wrong :D ;)

[Jonno06]

i hate that,the newbies just sit there when they are obviously hit....the refs at ur field suck wang

[TheTramp]

I'm not one to act all tough (easy to do when typing)when "talking" on these forums (remember that the various pic threds have shown us pictures of some of you tough guys ;) ) but I would probably have responded when he shot me while heading to the dead box. I would "asume" that he was still in the game and shot him till he ran off or the ref told me to stop.

In the end, Tom has the right idea. People new to the game don't act the way they should. They don't get off quickly (afraid of being hit again) and they don't always call themselves out. The best thing to do is either don't play with them or relax and don't worry about it.

Remember, if you break paint on someone and they wont leave you don't have to worry if they hit you. Just say "it doesn't matter if he shot me because he's been out for 10 minutes he just wont leave.:)

[PAINTBALLA01]

something similer happened to me. i was playing at my local field one day and there were alot of people that were visiting from florida or something. (not a new b)before you can play you have to get a player briefing. witch explains all the rules (one being the 10 foot rule -no bunkering). well in the middle of the game, i started chopping really bad (old paint) the guy saw it and tried to bunker me. he poped over the side and said surrender. i just sat there b/c there was a ref right next to me. he said player eliminated. not me. it was the guy. when he slide into my bunker he violated the 10 foot rule. he also said that i surrendered but the ref was my witness.

[Stingrayman42]

That guy needs to get his act together, or he needs to proclaim himself out more clearly. There was an instance at a big game where I was hit, had my plug in and my gun above my head walking in a open field towards the safe area and a group of people started to light me up. One or two balls I consider stray fire but I am being hit repeatedly so I got PO'ed and pulled my plug out, turned around and started shooting I don't know if it was right but I though it was sure as heak justified. And I am rambling again, but oh well.

[Aliens-8-MyDad]

i h8 newbs, i played with a group of them once just for fun, and when i ran outta paint i tried to make them surrender. so when i got up close enuff i screamed surrender like 5 times and they just shot me.. :rolleyes: one went under my mask and hit my throat

[hitech]

Originally posted by paint magnet
...I was tired of him shooting after he was out and not calling out when he was obviously dead...
While Tom is right that newbies operate in slow motion, I have this problem with experienced players, NOT newbies. Newbies call themselves out where I play (the field owners spends a lot of time explaining the importance of doing this, and how to do it properly). It is the experienced, macho, inflated egoed players that think they are too good to announce their elimination that end up getting a couple extra shots from me. :D

[the JoKeR]

Originally posted by Aliens-8-MyDad
when i ran outta paint i tried to make them surrender. so when i got up close enuff i screamed surrender like 5 times and they just shot me

Sounds like they got the best of you. I wouldn't have surrendered either.

[FatMan]

AGD has a good point. I would add to that that this was an opportunity to show some leadership. If I'm plying a newbie and get into s situation where they make a mistake, whether its not signalling they are out or playing on or anything else I try to take the opportunity to talk with them afterwards and "give them some pointers."

For example, one of the things it took me a while to learn is that the guy over behind that tree shooting at me probably can't HEAR me yelling that I'm out - that's why the barrel plug in gun over head signal is so important.

Or maybe its that they are expected to check themselves for a break when they get hit. The biggest lesson is that this is a friendly game, we leave our anger at home. If they aren't happy with something they talk to you about it - not shoot you.

I think the same thing can be said to you - this was a rec game, so what if they guy didn't call himself out - you don't have to shoot him up to make the point. All that does is create animosity, and destroy the opportunity for learning. You as the experienced player set the tone, and the tone you set was "if you screw up I'm going to make you pay in welts."

The really disturbing behavior was using his marker to take out his frustrations on you. That is something that should be dealt with OFF the field. Either face-to-face or with a ref or the field owner.

I think the biggest mistake in paintball is letting the excitement of the game get the better of you. Its a game - and you should treat it that way. If someone screws up, so what - talk about it afterwards. Think what would have happened if you had waited to see what he did when he emerged from the bunker - and all he did was walk off the field. Later you would have said "Hey dude, good game. Next time, remember to put your barrel plug in whenyou hold your guns out. I really wasn't sure if you were out, but since you're kind of new, I gave you the benefit of the doubt. I might have shot you up otherwise. Also, you should try yelling loud 'I'm out' but remember not everyone will hear you." You might have ended up with a totally difference situation.

Of course, some people WON'T learn and they'll keep right on doing it and at some point the only way to learn will be to light them up - but only if you truely aren't sure if they are out or not.

I think this was a lost opportunity to teach a newbie and to be a better player. I think both of you need to look back at the situation and see what you can learn from it. I hope you didn't post here just to have someone tell you you were right - I hope you are willing to look at your own behavior and consider what you could have done to make it better.

You've had a good day of paintball if everyone comes off the field feeling good. If that's not what happens, EVERYONE needs to consider what they could have done better that day. Being "right" is meaningless.

So says I,

FatMan

[theraidenproject]

The thing with the barrel plugs, is that you don't know whether they are genuinely out or are doing a "Dead Man's Walk" if they don't have the barrel plug in. Especially, if they're on the far side, walking towards you. If htey're experienced, then they probably know the routine and are trying to trick you, but you never know with newbies. They could know the rules and ttry to trick you, or they genuinely don't know the universal sign of the barrel plug.

[paint magnet]

As for the ref being inexperienced, he was 14. And it was either play with the newbs or go 1 on 1 with my friend for 3 hours until more people got there. It was a slow day, because there are normally 80+ people there on a Saturday.

[paint magnet]

I usually keep my barrel condom strapped to my hopper elbow and foregrip for fast acess.

[bornl33t]

This sorta stuff happens all the time. I remeber one time when the opposing team came charging us and we still didn't have goggles on. When they're teams captain was confronted on it he swore he heard the GO signal and figured we were slacking with our goggles off. Of course he plew up all over us, to this day that game haunts him. Ppl just don't like him for going ape over something so peddly. He could have just stoped when he saw our goggles off, or appologised afterwards but instead went off on us.
Lesson I learned? Once they make a mistake and don't admit it, it just gets harder for them to admit it... until they're rep is compleatly trashed. He did himself more harm to the general pupblic then you "supposedly" did to him.

Let it go, be nice and he'll learn the hard way. But remember that you are no better then him if you over react.

[Steve Crush]

i hear ya, he'd be so kicked out off my home field!


steve

[paint magnet]

AGD Newbee's have a different perception of the game than you do as an experinced player. Their lack of experience puts them in slow reponse mode. You have to expect that when you play against them and back off accordingly. Holding your gun up is a universal sign of surrender not an invite to shoot it. You could of at least given him the benfit of the doubt. I would recomend not playing with newbee's.

Oh, I forgot to mention, he was holding his gun out horizontally , as if he were about to blind fire.

[Jonno06]

yea,you definitly did the right thing....

if someone shot me pointblank after he was out,he wouldnt be eating my tank,he would be eaiting about 500 rounds of paint,then my tank...

[shartley]

Well, it seems that this player was a poor sport no matter how you look at it. I could deal with most everything mentioned with little difficulty. The thing that would have gotten ME going was the following:

Upon hearing that, he pulls the plug out of his now plugged rental and shoots me twice in the googles from 3 feet while walking to the dead zone.
You can chalk most everything else up to inexperience, ignorance, or a combination of both. But to unplug a clearly plugged barrel while heading toward the dead zone just to goggle someone at 3 feet….. he would not have to worry about taking the pug out of his barrel again, it would be my foot from his rear that would be his major concern at that point.

I would have grabbed him up and taken him to the owner/manager and demanded that something be done. And you can bet that something would have been done.

[Ultimator]

If some newb shot me from 3 feet you can gaurantee I would first wipe the paint off, giving him time to turn around and then shoot the backside of his head until I could no more.

[Jonno06]

lol,lets just say,he would lose his manhood....

[Mega Man]

Well being a ref myself I would say that your refs have no clear idea of what that title means. Also in my experiences I have had more newbies call themselves out then trying to stay in the game longer, seems fear of getting hit has the best of them.:rolleyes:

[FutureMagOwner]

heck i cant do dead mans walk anymore:( cuz people can tell when i got a barrel condom hanging of the side of my autococker that im not a newbie and nor aim i fidling around looking for my condom(lol that sounds funny):D

[paint magnet]

I don't think I'll be going back for a while. (BTW, I talked to the manager and he said to tell the ref) Also, while the fields at over at Quality Paintball (this little "incident" happened at Red Fox Games) may not be as nice, their service is a lot better. To quote Bubba, "There ain't no barrel in the world that can make that paint [The stuff Redfox sells] shoot straight". I heard a rumor that they actually sold Nelson seconds that had been repackaged in Proball cases. (He sells it for 75 a case, and you can get Nelson seconds for 16 a case) Anyway, as a result of this, they have lost my business, at least for the time being, and hopefully the business of most of my friends.

[HoppysMag]

o.... i would have preceeded to beat him, not only is that being a bad sport but im sure its a safty hazard to gog that close.

good luck... and id stay away from there too.

[paint magnet]

Well being a ref myself I would say that your refs have no clear idea of what that title means. Also in my experiences I have had more newbies call themselves out then trying to stay in the game longer, seems fear of getting hit has the best of them. These are the same refs that insist that you can only call a paintcheck on yourself. I also shot a new player straight in the head from about 25 feet, but it hit from the side and the ref called it as splatter. I didn't say anything because she was new, so I just shot her two more times and she was crying and talking about how I had overshot her while she was walking to the dead zone. There's more, but you get the picture.