AGD and the Paintball market

[Blazingace]

Hello,

Oh boy, I know I am going to get reamed out big time on this. I was at my favorite PB store today and walked into a conversation between a fellow mag owner and the store owner. The jist of the conversation was about AGD and its dwindling market share.

The Mag owner (who I turned onto AO during the conversation) was commenting on how inexpensive the mags were getting. The owner mentioned that mags just don't sell like they used to. He sited the prevelance of electros now flooding the market. I pointed to the Emag he had on the wall and asked about that, saying that it is possibly a better gun than the Angels he had below it. He countered with the lack of AGD marketing and its lack of presence in tourney play. I concured with him there saying that I really don't see mags in any of the PB magazines, at least not like I see Cockers and Angels. He then told me something that really upset me.

He said that many in the industry wonder how AGD is still a solovent company, and pointed to military contracts as what is keeping the company in business. I wonder how true what he said is? I really like my Minimags. I really want to buy a brand new RT Pro. And I wouldn't mind, maybe in the future, getting an Emag. I think that AGD is the best PB company out there.

But.........I am really confused, are the extreme emags and the level 10 conversions going to catapult AGD onto the main stage? Are we finally going to see AGD products featured in magazines as the tourney gun of choice? The warp is a breakthough system and one of the first original PB ideas in a long time. Will this and other breakthroughs silence the critics? I hope so. I really hope so......... A few of your thoughts on the matter would help. And maybe Tom or the Mod chiming in would help too. Please don't tear me up too bad for this thread , but it really disturbed me today.


Joel

[AGD]

Joel,

It is a legitimate post and you shouldn't be riddiculed for making it.

The fact remains that without pro tourny support and splashy marketing campains we ARE still in business. Against a tide of "mags suck" comments, electro markers and the worst recession in 10 years WE ARE STILL HERE. After spending money developing (and I mean developing) the worlds most accurate millitary paintball, the worlds only military marker, the Warp Feed, the Emag, the 4500 Flatline, the Intelliframe and the biggest Owners Group on the net, WE ARE STILL IN BUSINESS!

Comments like you heard should be proof positive that paintball is perception driven. We don't rely on retailers to fix our products, we do it for you. We don't rely on sponsoring big teams to convince you our stuff works we count on your buddy with a mag playing next to you. We don't have sparkly guns in magazine adds we have the muddy tube that still shoots great after 10 years.

We don't do business like the rest of the paintball industry so it's no surprise they don't know what's going on with us. Even if we never sold another gun to paintball players again we could survive purely off the parts sales.
Contrary to most of paintball, there is still something to be said for the combination of good service and extra tough products.

Every movement that becomes a phenomenon starts somewhere. For us that movement is starting here on Automags.org. Here where the smartest, most enthusiastic customers any manufacturer could ever ask for, have me completely convinced that if I listen to them I will never ever make a mistake in the paintball industry.

AGD

ps Military sales counted for 2% of our business last year.

[Butterfingers]

Tom you will be surprised at how many people follow the "tourney players use it so it's the best" logic.

Tom you have an awesome product. I truely belive in my own experience your original e-mag although not pretty is the best performing gun out there by 10 orders of magnitude.

When we set out to produce the fastest coolest gun out there which gun did we choose to modify?

Why?

Because there is no gun out there that matches the speed and reliability of your gun. And thats the truth. If you try to make an angel cycle at 20 bps I can tell you even with a warpfeed attached to an RC battery pack you get a fancy british blender.

What else? Im not afraid of putting the gun down and scratching my pretty anno with the e-mag.

Now Don and I have been working hard to get our e-magnum project noticed. Hence we do demos at local fields you know "marketing"

What happened? Almost every person who saw your product (albeit "tweaked") thier jaws dropped to the floor. Nobody and I mean NOBODY thought it was capable of that level of performance.

At the firing range, the competition, with timmies and angels ect tried to replicate but time and time again the e-mag performed two times better and two times faster.

So I propose this plan to you. You know the warp feed challange?

Well have the E-mag challange. Challange people to create a faster feeding gun. I can tell you they will have alot of work to do and alot of catch up to play.

What good is holding the title of the fastest gun in the west when nobody knows about it?

This goes back to the issue of dealer confidence... we are confident but only by trial and error, experience and the brand loyalty I have for AGD. How many others are confident?

[MagDog68]

Originally posted by AGD

Comments like you heard should be proof positive that paintball is perception driven.

Hey wait, I said that yesterday! Are you plagiarizing my posts Tom?

We don't rely on sponsoring big teams to convince you our stuff works we count on your buddy with a mag playing next to you. We don't have sparkly guns in magazine adds we have the muddy tube that still shoots great after 10 years.

And that is exactly what you get...people who rave that their Mags will stand the tests of time. You could build a house using the Mag as the hammer and still play on weekends in-between. They are indestructable!

~Fred

[Bonx0007]

I am interested in the emagnum.... When you guys finish up the phase III I would like to see and AD or something. THis would be like the "warped sportz" version actually the "mofified Sportz" version. Every High end marker has its variants and what you are doing sounds amazing. I have been secretly following your projects and I am lying in wait to buy these upgrades. Thanks for making these thing possible for emag owner of which I plan on joining on the 10th of May.Woot!!!

[Butterfingers]

The FA vid should be out in 3 weeks time. My digi vid cam is undergoing repair. This is probably when we will reveal phase 2.

To tell you the truth its really easy to modify AGD guns. The valve is already near perfect we do almost nothing to it.

All thats left is fancy milling, anno, and lightening.

[AGDRules]

Actually, Honestly I like going to the field with the only mag there, I mean some of the cocker guys on my team always have to say o yay a mag or god why did u get that, but when it comes time to play you can tell whos gonna be ripping and whos gonna be sitting in the side lines with a set of allan keys and tools swearing at there markers.

You can tell whos using a mag, because they have the money to buy, paint, have time to talk, and spend there money on other things.. you can tell who owns other guns cause they comes to the field with the "We are gonna rule attitude" and end up sitting the rest of the day out.

I really like AGD and as far as im concerned they are the best company in the history of paintball.

[SqueegeeKid]

I would like to see Mag's getting more tourney use or general attention but as long as they're in business and making money i'm perfectly happy.

If you ever do go outta business (unlikely) at least wait till i get the chance to buy an eMag. :D

AGD rules.

[Vegeta]

Another good Q is... think about how AGD makes their guns... they have a total staff of about 13 people in the factory I think (not counting AGD-E). How many do otehr companies have? And think about this... AGD gets alot of its parts that go ijnto it's guns from OTHER companies. Like the warp feed adapters.. and i guarentee AGD doesn't make the EMag boards... and what about hte mainbodies.. do you think they produce those or do u think they have another company do it for them.. same with the valves... I just don't see how 13 poeple could do all that... So is AGD saving lots of money by having other companies produce parts?? Maybe thats another reason why the mag is getting cheaper. eh.

Oh, and I don't think alot of research was put into making the biggest and best owners groups on the web.. that was a prodigy.. it just.. happened. lol.


We don't have sparkly guns in magazine adds we have the muddy tube that still shoots great after 10 years.

Thats great. going in my sig.

[toymyster]

Remeber, some people assume best selling product is the best, others get what they think is best regardless of sales figures!! Which one are you going to be????
Think about it, is a Dodge Caravan a better car than a Porsche 911??? It outsells the 911 by 100:1 margin!!!

[ZyperioN]

This is puzzling me, look around Paintball stores online and take a look at the Matrix electros, they claim to be on more than one site the fastest firing gun on the market, boasting 20 shots per second. But the emag is capable of 26+ so once again we have the fasest gun out there but we dont use that fact to advertise. Other companies are wrongly claiming the title just because we dont enforce our ownership of it. The RT valve is the fastest recharging system ever made, now go out and spread the word.

Oh, yeah and the Matrix only gets around 400 shots off a 68/3000 so lets not get dissed by a gas hog.

[magman007]

correct me if im wrong, but the e-mag is olny capable of 20 bps, i thinki read it some wherere that the solenild plunger slows it down. hmmm if im wrong please tell me

[MrMag]

i totally agree with everything you said tom, but i think that it would really help you, if you were to sponser a "big" team. i know it would be hard to find a good team that isnt already sponsered, and it would be quite expensive, but it would really get more emags in tourneys today. i was watching some tourney video today at warpig, and was amazed that i only saw one emag and the only mag. i believe that if this happens, it will get rid of all the rumors, more people would buy mags, and everything would turn out for the best (hopefully).

[Cypres0099]

Magman - I don't think that the plunger slows it down much. I believe that Tom challenged the people at Modified paintball to hold a constant stream of 22 bps using the emagnum board, a 12v warp, and.... a halo b? Anyway I don't think the problem is the gun but feeding the paint.

[riooso]

When playing in the woods or speedball there is nothing more comforting than hearing my brother "leaning" on his Mag, pure music. By the way, with a stock cutdown body and an aftermarket power feed I have not chopped a ball in well over 20 cases. My Mag has never broken down when I needed it and I have had it 2 years. I own a Cocker also and you can not say that about a Cocker.

R

[Blazingace]

I have heard the things that I wrote about many times since then. If we really think our marker is the best WE need to go out and spread the paint.....er I mean word. Don't suggest that a player get a Tippman or a Spyder as their marker because it is cheaper. My bros shoot and ancient Spyder, a Tippman Sniper( a very cool marker ) and Custon 98 and a JT 4.0. When we go to the field I chrony my Minimag and then spend 30 min. each to get the Spyder and 4.0 chronied right. If the 'Mag is the way to go let everyone know.

[AssassN]

When i am in the world cup and NPPL and stuff (cause of corse i will be):D I will still use mags. Just to show them, i'd probably use a Classic just to really piss off the people that were using angels and highend cockers.

[Shail]

Even from the begining I never really had much interest in cockers or angels. I've always been happy with how it preformed, I never had any problems with it and have now moved on to a emag. All I can say is AGD makes some great products and with the level 10 upgrades and the Xtreme coming out the mags will begin to appear back into the pics of all magazines and will be taken up by the pros once again.Its only a matter of time.

[FrAuStY]

Originally posted by Blazingace
I have heard the things that I wrote about many times since then. If we really think our marker is the best WE need to go out and spread the paint.....er I mean word. Don't suggest that a player get a Tippman or a Spyder as their marker because it is cheaper. My bros shoot and ancient Spyder, a Tippman Sniper( a very cool marker ) and Custon 98 and a JT 4.0. When we go to the field I chrony my Minimag and then spend 30 min. each to get the Spyder and 4.0 chronied right. If the 'Mag is the way to go let everyone know.

Matter of fact.. I met a guy in jury duty on monday who was interested in starting to play. I asked him how much money he had to get his equipment.. he said it doesn't matter as long as my gun shoots good, is reliable and hardly ever needs maintainence, I was like... My friend... have I got the gun for you. I informed him of the AGD selection of markers.. he's interested in a Automag68 powerfed hopper left. So I have done what you asked... without being asked. Hopefully ole boy will get one and he can spread the word to all his newb friends :)

[71 LS6]

We, as proud AGD customers, can be a major influence in AGD's marketing. When you go out and play, show how much you appreciate your mag, because people will take notice. If something goes wrong on your mag (unlikely), remark on how it is rare that you need to fix something on it. Many people don't realize the mag's high ROF abilities, and if anyone mentions that mags are slow, or mags are blenders, rip off a string to show them. You guys are right, a lot of the reactions that people have for mags are solely because they are misinformed, or because they already have their own misconceptions. You can also mention one of the greatest benefits of buying AGD, which is their outstanding customer service. Just be sure not to be cocky or condescending, because this will turn people off. A truly happy customer can be the best testament to a company for a potential customer to see, and as we all know, nearly every one of AGD's customers loves both their gun and the company. We are the 'enlightened' ones, so go out and spread the word. I have recently changed many people's thoughts about mags, and they are beginning to consider a mag as their next purchase. Every satisfied customer can be his/her own marketing tool, bringing in more customers and therefor more marketing tools.

[spider54]

someone said somethin about gettin mags into biger tournies, manny francia from aftershock has his pic taken shootin a mag at mardi gras open. even though it is an advertisment for PMI's 5000 psi tank it is showing off what AGD can make and sell. the intelliframe, retro valve, black main body. and it shows that there are upper level tourney players out there who still use mags. It is free advertising for AGD and i think any newb lookin through APG and looks at it will be thinkin about what gun they want to get.

[Yatta!]

Or.... all of us AO'ers can get really really good and just flood the tourny scene!


Yatta!!!

[spider54]

i forgot to mention that my local store is in love with mags they have like nuthin cocker and everything mag. it isp pretty cool

[S14-Racer]

Spider, my local feild is like that too. They have, I think, 5 guns on the wall. One a-5 and the rest are mags, from the rt-pro to the classic. They also have the stockage of spiders but that is without saying. On the wall there are no cocker repair kits but they have "everything" you need for a mag, and the upgrades to boot. It doesnt matter if it is AIR or retro or in an rt frame. The owner also has solely used mags in tourney play for the 4 yrs Ive known him and uses a retro'd hyperframe mag as his main marker with you guessed it, a mag as his back-up.

Ive been out of the game for 3 yrs and had to sell my mini because I had no time or money to play becase of college. I got out of college about a month ago, and my brother got into the game. He had me find him a nice cocker (which I got off of these boards :) ) even though I suggested a mag. Anyway he got it then about 2 weeks later I got back into the game, and retro mag was all I wanted, so I got one. As much as he likes the cocker he said his next gun will be a mag as well.

All I can say is keep up the good work AGD.