Does the Box really matter?

[hitmanng]

Ok did you even see the box before you bought the gun??

[Army]

The box was only noticed the next morning when I threw it away. It didn't fit in the garbage bag.

[TransMan]

lol i didnt get a box with mine :rolleyes:

[magking1971]

Never got a box with mine. oh well I don't mind.

[Chris]

The box is not for us, it is for new people.

We do not need to sell the people on this board on AGD products, most of us own them already. We need to get word out to people, and one way to do that is marketing/packaging. If the presentation is good, the product will sell. Think of it this way, when you go grocery shopping, do you buy the generic brand beans, soup, whatever for a little less or the name brand stuff? You go for the name brand stuff, because it looks better, even though on the inside it is all the same.

-Chris

[FooTemps]

Well... Hype morons buy into boxes...

[shartley]

Yes, people ARE missing the point about the packaging (note I did not say just BOX). We already know that most on AO would buy dog poo in a plastic bag if AGD said to do so… this is not in question… The Loyalty of AO Members to AGD have NEVER been in question, but we are talking about REAL marketing and sales though. And to the general marketplace it does matter.

People are also trying to make it look as if those who want a nicer box do so because that ALONE makes people buy the product. That is just not true. It IS however a contributing factor for how people think about the entire Company, their complete line of products, etc. The whole buying experience does NOT end when you put your money on the counter (and it does not begin when you see the product on the wall), and those who think so are overlooking many other very important factors in sales and building customer loyalty and brand identity.

But people will think what they want… and this is a great indicator that they are NOT in sales. ;) Consumers should be asked things, absolutely… but their actual answers should be weighed with many factors, and taken with just as much weight as they deserve, but never more.

And you know what? I would be willing to bet that if Tom had NOT asked about the Box here on AO, and this was all done behind the scene, and then Tom announced it and showed pretty pictures…. AO would go crazy over it. They would then be saying how great it was and how it was now going to give Angel Packaging a run for its money, etc. However, I am sure people will deny that as well. ;)

The truth is sometimes hard to find on AO when it was not first said by AGD… or THEIR idea.

[fearc7]

It really didnt matter to me because i knew the gun is awesome and way high quality. It would have been nice to have a cool one though...

[MagDog68]

Well shartley, I don't give two poos about the box. :) (I just really wanted to say poo...)

But AGD does need to up its image ... pretty boxes really can't hurt. But I would prefer to see a big marketing blitz in and out of the paintball industry publications. Think about Playboy, Maxim and any other macho man's magazine. Take the gun to the masses!!!

~Fred

[mrhooie]

Well, now I throw my marketting hat into the ring. I have done a lot of marketting in the past and I will say that the packaging does matter to a certain extent.

but - in the case of Airgun Designs, the box should be a small concern.

Why? you ask?

Well, a few reasons.

1- where is Airgun's main customer base?
online and in pro-shops

Online - a place where customers do not see the box until it has arrived at their door. Being a retailer, I can tell you that boxes are constantly missing or inconsistant. If I had a chance to save $10 on a marker by buying it in a pizza box, then I would. It only saves my customers in the long run - and it is all about the customer's bottom line

Pro-Shops - well, I'm a small retailer and have 1sies and 2sies in my store and they're always on display. The look, price, performance and how well I sell it is what sells a marker. The box, again, is the last concern.

If AIrgun was a company like Zap or Brass Eagle and really went into the Big-Box stores ,where you have an unknowledgable person selling everything from tools to bikes to paintball markers, the BOX SELLS THE PRODUCT!...

I think AGD should not worry about the packaging and maybe put some thought into POP (point of purchase) material.
Having an action shot of the marker on an inexpensive poster, table top card, full colour catalogue, etc. etc. etc. goes further.

Just my thoughts

[Croix71]

I didn't see the box until after the purchase. I was already sold on my Automag before I even saw the box. :D

To me, if I know the product and the company - the box doesn't matter. If friends of mine who I trust have the product and recommend it - the box doesn't matter. If I don't know anything about the product and I can't find any info or any product reviews on the net - the box would sway my decision.

[shartley]

LOL Good word that “poo” is. :D


But AGD does need to up its image ... pretty boxes really can't hurt. But I would prefer to see a big marketing blitz in and out of the paintball industry publications.
I agree whole heartedly that they need to do OTHER things as well. And I think that is where people are getting things messed up…

I don’t think for one second that anyone who said AGD needed better packaging is suggesting that it should be Packaging OR Advertising. Why is it always one or the other? When you build a Marker, do you do so using just a barrel? Do you do so using just the mainbody? Or how about the trigger frame? The same is true with a successful marketing and branding campaign… it consists of many parts. Some large, some small, and EACH are important.

How about this? How would your marker shoot if you took out one of your O rings? But they are just little parts, right? Now, what if someone said that you could have a marker, but you would have to decide if you wanted a barrel, OR an O ring… what would you decide? You know that either way would leave you with a marker that is incomplete…. Either with a very noticeable part missing, or one that you may have always overlooked but is just as important.

The “selling” game is the same way. And often times the little things are far more important than people may realize, and combined they add up to a pretty powerful force... UNLESS that is what they do for a living… making people buy things. It is easy to sell a product, an image, or a company, when you are doing so to people who already WANT it… but that is not really selling, is it? You are just supplying.. which is a bit different.

And the determining factor for a company’s success, or that of its product(s), is whether or not they can SELL the product to those who may be undecided. And this is where all the little “tricks” come into play. Those who are diehard fans will ALWAYS say the little things are silly and not needed, because the product is a good one. But unfortunately until you start looking at those who will NOT buy the product, and ALL the reasons why (silly or not) you will never GET them as customers, which is the driving force for any successful company or product.

At the end of the day, it is better to have more sales because of “silly” reasons, than less sales for “not-silly” reasons (maintaining the product is the SAME product). The key to success is keeping the quality and REAL reasons a product is a good one, while offering the “silly” things that help get you noticed and build a good (and strong) image. This also leads to the sale of your other products by association. It is a win-win situation, and how anyone can NOT want that is beyond me. It is like shooting your foot just before you run a race.. sure, you can RUN it, but you greatly reduce your chances of winning.

Again, it should never be a one way or the other thing, but a collaborative effect. The same way as people thinking that a good package will slow down the development of the marker, or the process of fixing existing problems…. That is just not true. They are different things and can be done at the same time, because they are done by different people. You do not have to have one OR the other…. You can have BOTH.


I think AGD should not worry about the packaging and maybe put some thought into POP (point of purchase) material.
Having an action shot of the marker on an inexpensive poster, table top card, full colour catalogue, etc. etc. etc. goes further.
Another great idea… but one that should work WITH other things. It is the total image that sells a product. Again, we don’t have to have one or the other… nor should we.

Now with that said, I have SEEN how shops “sell” markers… they sell what sells.. period. I just saw a salesperson “sell” the new Tippmann to a customer because that is what they wanted before they walked into the store. But they KNEW there were better markers on display…. Retailers sell what sells period. All the grand talk about loyalty, product quality, etc. blah… horse hocky… It sounds good, but the smart retailer stocks the products that people WANT and what sells itself.

Retailers are not in the business of product demonstrations, brand loyalty, or all the other grand things I keep hearing… honestly if fake dog poop looking hoppers were in style, you would find them in every shop you went to, no matter if they were quality or actually worked… if they sell, they are sold. We have discussed how quality is not the only reason a product does well here on AO. We have also discussed how many BETTER products get killed by lesser products here on AO. And people still fail to see the light… ;)

You don’t play chess with only one type of piece. You don’t win a football game with only one type of player. You don’t fight a war with only one type of soldier or equipment. And you don’t sell products effectively with only ONE aspect of the experience. But why do some on AO keep thinking you do? ;)

[cphilip]

I think the Box is only a small fraction of a whole series of marketing moves. I think some of you are trying to polarize it into "Nice box or not". As if it were the whole issue. Not so. We "pro-boxers" are pro Marketing. It only one facet of the whole strategy that needs to be employed. If you chose to miss that point then you are being narrow minded about it.

This is sort of getting like a Pro Choice vs Pro life thing. As if ANYONE is pro killing babies! How untrue! No one is. So everyone in that debate is Pro Life. Sort of twisting this one around that way too from what I can see.

NO matter which side you are on you are on AGD's side. Remember that. Everyone of you "anti-Boxers are still in agreement something needs to be done. You point to other things like advertizement. All the Pro Boxers do too. We just think its a part of the whole scheme of things. ONce the design is done it can be used in many things. And should be!

By the way...I keep my boxes! :D

[Cliffio]

i think that a nice box can do nothing but help agd

but i think that the "box" represents a much bigger problem

which could be marketing of the emag/sfl/extreme all together

Cliff

[FooTemps]

I'd give less for the boxes and more for other marketing. The hype people would buy into the boxes after the purchase tho...

[cphilip]

Originally posted by Cliffio
i think that a nice box can do nothing but help
Cliff

And not only that...what can it hurt?

Nada!

[BTAutoMag]

i dont really care about the box! all you need is a white box with an AGD logo on it.

[theraidenproject]

The first marker I bought was used, and therefore didn't have a box. I won a tippmann 98, and the box didnt make a difference. In fact, the thing was too big to be manageable carrying it around. It was funny how they tried to fill up a big box with features about the 98. I bought my mag used, so, again, no box. I like to buy used to get my money's worth, so usually no box. I didn't even think about the lack of boxes until this whole "debate". If I bought a marker online, and it was shipped to me, I would only see it as an obstacle to my gun, one more thing I need to tear open. If I bought a gun in a store (which I wouldn't, like I said before, I like to get the most for my money), I most likely would never see the box until after the purchase. If I did see it before, it would make absolutely no impact. Of the several paintball store I've been in, there has been NOT ONE box visibile. In summary, the box a marker comes in doesn't matter one bit to me. However, this is just me, and the crowd AGD wants to attract with the Extremes will likely care a lot about image, and thus i think it is necessary.

[hitmanng]

Originally posted by cphilip
We "pro-boxers" are pro Marketing. It only one facet of the whole strategy that needs to be employed. If you chose to miss that point then you are being narrow minded about it.

Everyone of you "anti-Boxers are still in agreement something needs to be done. You point to other things like advertizement. All the Pro Boxers do too. We just think its a part of the whole scheme of things. ONce the design is done it can be used in many things. And should be!

By the way...I keep my boxes! :D

OK this got way out of hand. This all started because of a note I made to Tom in the Box thread about how many see the box before they choose the marker. I think as a marketing percentage it is a small number. Most people decide on what they want in a marker and go buy it. They might have been thinking angel and seen a sweet Emag and bought it but none of it was box related. The problem is the Emag is not in the store not what the box looks like.

As for Shartly's friendly comments :rolleyes: First of all let me say I love you man. Ok with that out of the way if AGD was selling a Dog poop hopper you know it better quality than a BE hopper so of course we would buy it. :p

I have been marketing Medical services for a number of years and the AGD products sell like ours did. People buy it for the quality not the box. You are right in that it is all a package. The Angel is sold with cool packaging, hot girls, parties, and lots of pretty paint. I am not saying the Marker isn't good I am saying it is hype not reality. That is a fickle fan base. The Mag on the other hand is bought by people that own them forever and are very loyal. Better packaging may increase the overall purchasing base but it would take an entire image overhaul. Possible but costly. A new box would be a small dent.

I do not think this is post was ment to be pro or con Box it was ment to provide information. Without good data we do not know the answer. For example. I was supprised to find that even here packaging mattered to 12% of the people. Lets say on average is is 20% assuming other people think it matters more than AOers. Well if 30,000 New markers are sold a year and AGD sells 2,000 then the best packaging would only need to bring in 3% more of the total sales to increase sales by 50%. Maybe packaging matters. Without the number you just don't know. I only know for me I didn't even see the box and I still haven't seen an E-mag in person at any of the stores I visit. So to me the issue isn't a box although it is marketing related.
Hitmanng

[xmetal2001]

Originally posted by shartley
We already know that most on AO would buy dog poo in a plastic bag if AGD said to do so…

well, what if its really really really high quality dog poo?:D

[pumpamatic]

Honestly, how hard can it be to just put something like a sticker of a picture of the SFL on it's box? It will do better than just some white box. For a new product, it really doesn't hurt to have a nice box. Most people, when looking at a new product, read what the package says and believe everything it says and does. Although if I were to buy a marker of that price, I would probably try to shoot it first. Still, the money that it costs to spice up the box should easily make a little more profit.

[shartley]

:) :D ;)

[TransMan]

Originally posted by Chris
The box is not for us, it is for new people.

We do not need to sell the people on this board on AGD products, most of us own them already. We need to get word out to people, and one way to do that is marketing/packaging. If the presentation is good, the product will sell. Think of it this way, when you go grocery shopping, do you buy the generic brand beans, soup, whatever for a little less or the name brand stuff? You go for the name brand stuff, because it looks better, even though on the inside it is all the same.

-Chris

dont know about u but i could care less about marketing i buy the cheapest food possible so i have more money to buy paintballs and such Wal-Mart brand all the way :)

[maverickTG001]

i like the box, i think it's cool, it's the only reason i bought my mags, i wouldn't do it if i didn't get a box. the box is everything to me. j/k, i don't like the box that much, but i think it's nice.

[Miscue]

I say brown bag it and write down "EMag" with a magic marker. :)

[automagruss]

i didnt see te box first i saw it being used and when i asked what it was the guy said "why dont you shoot it first and ill tell yeah".since i was using a rental i saw that i obviusly needed to get a real marker before my abilites would progres any further.

the box doest mater if you can touch it first and see it in action

[liigod]

i have never once gotten a box with any of the 14 paintguns that ive owned cept for a 2k1 cocker, which the box was from 2k.

[MaxxFactor]

Boxes/packing doesn't turn me on. I buy markers based on their performance not flashy boxes. The reliability and sheer idiot proofing of the RT PRO and E-Mag sold me. After using and field repairing both, only strenghten my resolve the AGD products RULE!

[Krazy Ivan]

up

[tool]

I bought my RT used never saw the box...what's on the box of and automag RT anyways???