SPPLAT speaks - "Shatner Ball" and FA

[JJBrookshire]

It is purely coincidence but it is a fact that the same day that the "Turd Shooting" took place, I was in Pittsburgh attending the meeting of ASTM subcommittee F08.24. On that day we passed a revision to F1777 (Paintball Playing Field Operations) that does not allow the use of markers "operating" in FA, Burst or Enhanced modes and defined these. This represented the end of much work and debate and when published, paintball playing fields that purport to operate in accordance with ASTM standard F1777 cannot allow play in other than semi or pump mode. The only steps required for this revision to become official involve review by the ASTM to make sure we have no editorial errors and that we followed proper procedure in adopting this revision.
This being said, and with full confidence that Challenge Park Xtreme will continue to operate in a manner consistent with or exceeding that required by F1777, only markers operating in semi or pump discharge modes will be allowed during the William Shatner Big Scenario Game. Please note that this means that markers capable of other modes can be used provided they are locked into semi or pump discharge mode only and tools or disassembly are required to change their discharge mode.

So for those of you who signed up for the game with the use of FA being a deciding factor, you may request a full refund at this time. While I do not want to argue the safety or lack thereof of various discharge modes I am convinced, especially after seeing the video and reading everyone's comments, that FA is neither good for nor needed for paintball's growth and acceptance.

[Jonno06]

i for one am glad about this new change......i would hate to see abunch of trekkors get shot up FA and complain about how dangerous paintball is......

[shartley]

JJ-

I agree....

[Potatoboy]

Yeesh, I should get something for coining "Shatnerball" everyone's using it!

I'm fairly sure it was me, and I was the first one to use it on the boards here. (just searched)

So, Whadda ya say?

:D ;)

[Fred]

Great!

Now my Phantom will be my primary for that game... since I can deal with semiautos just fine... :)

[PB-Tom]

I wonder what this means for the Michigan Monster game? They always touted FA as being one of the major selling points of the event. I'll be dissappointed if I don't get to put the angel in burst mode for it :(

[JJBrookshire]

Like all ASTM standards, compliance with F1777 is purely voluntary. It will be up to each field owner to decide it they wish to comply or not. In some cases they may find compliance required by their insurance policy in other cases they may not. I don't claim that FA, Burst, etc... is in itself unsafe. If I had thought so, I would have never planned to have allowed it at the Shatner Game, but I do think compliance with the ASTM standard is important.

[MagDog68]

JJ -
Full auto has no place in paintball, and I am happy to hear you have decided to drop it from this event!

~Fred

[Maghog]

Just out of curiousity, what does this ASTM revision mean for the Retro Valve and Hybrid Mode on the E-mag?
I just hope that the ASTM realizes that now people who want to play with full auto (and there are a lot of them out there) will not be going to organized fields to do so. Instead they'll go play in their backyards where safety is heeded even less.
I hope this works out the way you guys think it will.

[shartley]

I just hope that the ASTM realizes that now people who want to play with full auto (and there are a lot of them out there) will not be going to organized fields to do so. Instead they'll go play in their backyards where safety is heeded even less.
Well, I don’t know a single reputable field that WILL allow full auto anyway.. and that has nothing to do with the ASTM Agreement. And any less reputable fields that I know of that “might” allow full auto would do so in addition to having so many other safety issues already…. So allowing FA would only be one more heaped onto them.

This does not really make a good arguing point for not allowing FA. Saying they will conduct unsafe activities in a more unsafe place is not a strong position. I am pretty sure this will not “backfire”.. but it is far to early to get into it right now… I am only on my first cup of coffee this morning. LOL

Oh, Maghog.. how have you been? I have not noticed you posting much lately (although I might have just missed it).

[JJBrookshire]

Keep in mind that I am the task group chairman developing the proposed Marker Standard. As such, I drafted the proposed standard with current technology in mind. The definitions of Trigger Cycle, Semi-Automatic Discharge Mode, Enhanced Discharge Mode and Fully-Automatic Discharge Mode was critical to assuring that the standard when adopted would not create situations that may require testing parameters that are not achievable. These definitions clearly place the Retro and Hybrid (E-Mag with reactive trigger) in the Semi-Automatic category. Without quoting the drafts of the the proposed standard (not allowed by ASTM guidlines), I can say that the trigger cycle definition requires that there be movement of the trigger from a discharge to a reset position with each discharge to be considered semi-automatic. I realize that Retro and Hybrid have very short trigger cycles but they do fall under the definition and are thus semi-automatic and will be perfectly allowable under F1777 (field operations) and the proposed marker standard.

[JJBrookshire]

It was very important to me that the revision to F1777 (field standard) did not disallow the use of markers capable of other than semi or pump discharge modes but instead it specified that the markers on the field not be allowed to function as such. This is more than symantics, it allows multi-mode markers to be used on fields that meet ASTM guidlines for operation but requires they be locked out of burst, enhanced or fully-automatic modes. Unless the marker can be switched to one of the other modes without the need for tools or disassembly, it will be perfectly welcome on these fields.

[Maghog]

I do know of a field which has an excellent safety record that allows full auto without incident. They do cohere to the ASTM's standards and revisions, and will likely change their rules accordingly now. I don't know, I'm not the field operator.
If full auto is still allowed to be part of the gun, and insurance companies are happy with the wording that the ASTM provides, then there will be few problems. Not that there really are many. Most (but not all) commercial fields already disallow FA and it will not change their business much.
It's not needed on bigger fields with public attendance anyway where pros get to unleash on newbie's, or trekies for that matter.
This is a fine step for the image of paintball as a sport, and I am not against it at all, but I do believe that there will always be people who want to play with and against FA, it's the biggest challenge.

Thank you Shartley, I'm doing just fine. I'm working too much right now though, and have little time to post. I do check in here a lot though....just to keep up to date. I am carving some new pieces, and I just played at Veckring France this weekend after a 4 month vacation from paintball.
The Veckring big-game is Europe's largest event outside of pro-tourney circuits, with an attendance of over 450 people splitting up and going head to head all day long.
It was awesome, and I just have to say, my MiniRT was immaculate. I honestly grabbed it off the shelf, and shot 1700 rounds through it all day without a break or one single problem. I put it through hell too.
I couldn't be happier.

[raehl]

FA in paintball shows up the most in scenario games where players have all sorts of wierd gimmicks.

Personally, it's not full auto on paintball fields that I really worry about. What I don't want to see is people able to walk into walmart, lay down some cash, and walk out with a marker that can shoot 20 BPS, or the impression given to the public that that is possible. If people start thinking that anyone can just pick up a marker capable of doing what was shown in the Turd video, we're in for a whole world of hurt. As it stands, that's not the case, but the industry needs to make sure it STAYS that way.


- Chris