Question on Retro Valves

[Ultimator]

Ok, my question is: What input pressure will I have to have going into my gun in order for it to get the most "reactiveness" (I'm talking holding my trigger about 1/3 of the way and letting it bounce continuosly [sp?])

Thanks for all help in advance.

[Cha0tic]

differs from valve to valve. when people want it to go into runaway, they turn the pressure up to like 1000-1200

[Load SM5]

It's hard to get it to that point and if you do you'll probably blend paint.

[Jonno06]

hm.....sweet spotting the trigger at 1000-1200,wont that blow either the valve,or the seals????

[RT_Luver]

I dont even know if that is possible, might be but prob be pretty hard. I had my tank at 750 and i hardly had to move my finger and it would shoot really fast

[shartley]

hm.....sweet spotting the trigger at 1000-1200,wont that blow either the valve,or the seals????
My gauges go to 1200 (on my 68/4500 Flatline), so I would imagine 1000 would not blow the valve or seals. I would probably not go with that much pressure, but generally if the gauge goes that high I would think 1100 would not hurt it… but I could be wrong.


I dont even know if that is possible, might be but prob be pretty hard. I had my tank at 750 and i hardly had to move my finger and it would shoot really fast
Mine is set at 800 and it is VERY easy to shoot at blazing fast speeds. But that is not close to being runaway like Ultimator was asking about. It has been done though.


It's hard to get it to that point and if you do you'll probably blend paint.
I agree… if you don’t have your marker setup right and have a very fast loading system (Revvy w/Warp or Halo) you stand a good chance of turning your Marker into a Wagner Power Painter. ;)

Plus, be careful, most fields will not allow markers in runaway mode… if they find out you are using one, be prepared to leave… and with a ruined reputation. :)

[Hacker240]

I suggest 750. It is reactive, but not really reactive and turns into a blender. Once you get used to a settting, any will be very fast especially 750. But it is preference.

[Jonno06]

how can you not allow runaway mode,its not even a mode...its just shooting really fast.....nothing wrong with it.....

i have mine on preset,and mine isnt as reactive as ide like,but its all good,i will see how many BPS i get on wednesday,or next weekend,and will report in this thread....

[Butterfingers]

The retrovalve like all current AGD valves are designed to handle 3000 psi. There isnt even a remote chance of blowing seals at 1200 psi. However the reactiveness of the trigger may cause some sear bolt wear issues.

[shartley]

Jonno06

how can you not allow runaway mode,its not even a mode...its just shooting really fast.....nothing wrong with it.....
Actually I hate to tell you, but you are incorrect. If you make your marker in essence a “full-auto” (which runaway IS), most reputable fields will not allow it.

So, how is runaway a mode? It is not a factory set mode, or really something you can switch to on the fly… but it is a self set firing method.. thus a MODE.

Runaway is created by manually adjusting pressures in your trigger so that when you pull the trigger back it will continue to bounce off your finger.. thus being able to pull once and find your “sweet spot” and the marker continually fires (in essence) by itself… THAT is Full-Auto. The simplest definition for Full-Auto would be described by one pull resulting in continual firing…. Runaway mode fits that definition.

There have been a few discussions about this here on AO, I am sure if you really doubt me, you can do a search and read others say the same thing.

[Jonno06]

would "walking" the trigger be considered full automatic?

[shartley]

I don’t think it would. But that is a bit different issue though… and one that was not being discussed… Setting your retro so that it bounces off your finger (return pressure is higher than pulling pressure) making your marker in essence full-auto was.

But I think many fields frown upon triggers set so sensitive that you can walk them, side tap them, etc. This brings up other safety issues other than ones of full-auto. And these issues would have to be addressed (and asked at) each field.

Also one involves the trigger sensitivity and the other involves how hard the trigger RETURNS to its starting position. One will not fire UNLESS you pull the trigger, which is quite different than how far the trigger has to move to fire the marker. For example, no matter how “reactive” you set your retro, you can slam your marker down as hard as you like on a bench and it will not fire (that is if the only thing you do is adjust the pressure)…. The other trigger modifications you are talking about will not give you that result. They often can cause a marker to fire when bumped, put down, etc. This would, as stated, be a safety issue and not really one of Full-Auto or not.

With that said, I believe that walking a trigger, side taping, etc. would NOT be considered Full-Auto because the actual trigger action is caused by your finger activating the action, not the trigger itself by pushing back against a steady pull. But this has all been discussed here on AO as well… I would suggest doing a search for it also.

[Jonno06]

i will have to look into this a bit farther the next time at my field,should be friday/sunday,and i will report here with my results/discoveries....

[mercury]

I would have to disagree in saying that this would be some sort of full auto mode. After all, you are getting one shot per pull of the trigger, no matter how it happens. Yes, it is bouncing off of your finger, but the trigger is returning and then re-engaging each shot so you could not consider this full auto. All you are doing is firing really fast.

The only thing that could constitute any full auto or burst mode would be if you pulled the trigger ONCE, and MULTIPLE shots came out for that trigger pull.

If anything were to be in dispute at a field, it would have to be the reactive trigger in that it allows you to bounce the trigger, but to say that it is illegal because it is full auto would be incorrect.

[paintbattler]

set it to around 700-750psi. it will be reactive and not too stiff

[paintbattler]

^^ is for a "normal" setting. set it to around 1500 to make sure it will be almost full auto

[shartley]

I would have to disagree in saying that this would be some sort of full auto mode. After all, you are getting one shot per pull of the trigger, no matter how it happens. Yes, it is bouncing off of your finger, but the trigger is returning and then re-engaging each shot so you could not consider this full auto. All you are doing is firing really fast.
Well, you are actually saying two different things. First you say that you are getting one shot per pull of the trigger, and then you follow up directly after that by saying that it is bouncing off your finger. Which is it? One shot per pull, or one pull and the trigger bouncing off your finger causing unlimited shots?

One might also argue that any method that allows you to only make one trigger pull and the marker keeps firing, it is “full-auto”, no matter if it is the trigger moving on its own, or some other internal system. The point is that if the marker does the shooting, and not YOU, it is not a one pull one shot mode. The point is that in runaway mode, the MARKER is controlling the firing, not the person pulling their finger for each shot.

This is quite different than walking or side tapping a trigger, because technically the vibration would be the “pull”, and that is caused directly by the person’s finger moving, not the trigger bouncing off it by itself. So no, YOU are not firing really fast, the MARKER is, you made one pull and kept your finger in a “sweet spot” and allowed the trigger to bounce off your finger…. That is not YOU shooting fast, you actually shot very slow and STOPPED pulling… which is totally different than walking the trigger or tapping it where you have to physically keep your finger moving.



The only thing that could constitute any full auto or burst mode would be if you pulled the trigger ONCE, and MULTIPLE shots came out for that trigger pull.
Bingo! Which happens with a marker in runaway mode. You pull the trigger ONCE and keep it at a sweet spot and DON’T move it again until you want to stop the marker from shooting. YOU only pulled the trigger once, the MARKER did the rest.


If anything were to be in dispute at a field, it would have to be the reactive trigger in that it allows you to bounce the trigger, but to say that it is illegal because it is full auto would be incorrect.
Why would it be a problem unless the result was full-auto? How you got it to GO full auto is not the point, the resulting stream of balls firing at a speed NOT controlled by the shooter manually activating the trigger for each shot is the issue. I don’t understand why some people just can’t understand this… Runaway markers are considered full-auto.. period. Any arguments that it is not full-auto because the trigger is engaging and returning on each cycle is silly… and that is because the shooter is not controlling this, the MARKER is.

Whether the cycling is at an internal level where you can not see it, or at the level of the trigger itself is inconsequential. The fact that the shooter is not in direct control of each individual shot is. Moving the place where the shooter looses direct control to the trigger itself does not make the marker any less full-auto than if the trigger only moved once and something else (not visibly seen) made it keep firing. It is all about CONTROL, who has it, the shooter or the Marker? In Runaway, the shooter controls when it starts and stops, but NOT the rate of fire or each individual shot… the Marker does.

It seems some people are confusing trigger movement with pulling the trigger. In Runaway, the shooter actually only pulls the trigger ONCE, but the marker than uses tension supplied by the shooter to activate itself. But the shooter actually is not firing each shot.. the marker is.

(I wonder how many other ways I can say the same thing… I just don’t want any confusion. ;))

[Blennidae]

Maybe too many words Shartley...

Full auto: Pull trigger, hold, gun continues to fire until trigger released.

Bounce as full auto: Pull trigger, hold in "sweet spot", gun continues to fire until released.

I think the operative word is "hold".

[Load SM5]

Or, heck, just break it down.....

Runaway Mode-

Runaway
Pronunciation: 'r&-n&-"wA
Function: noun
Date: 1547
2 : the act of running away out of control; also : something (as a horse) that is running out of control


Key phase being "out of control"

[shartley]

LOL Yeah.. thanks guys. ;)

[BlackVCG]

Trying to make your gun go into runaway mode just blends paint and eats sears. The gun wasn't designed to do that. It's a great way of really messing up your gun.

[Ultimator]

Well I talk to people who work at my field on a daily basis ... they are encouraging runaway mode so apparently they are okay with it. Shartley, I guess you're right about full auto, but I don't mean to use this to overshoot anybody or anything. It will be VERY handy when someone is hammering my bunker with paint, cause I can snapshoot like 5 shots very quickly.

Thanks for all the response! Keep 'em coming! Also, if it's no trouble, check your tanks and see what input psi you have it on and tell me how reactive it is :)

[Jonno06]

800 preset-pretty reactive,cant sweetspot trigger yet....can easily pull 13bps

[shartley]

Well I talk to people who work at my field on a daily basis ... they are encouraging runaway mode so apparently they are okay with it.
That is fine. But are they the Management or Owners? Or are they just “people who work at” the field? I think their Insurance Company would have a different take on the situation. ;) But hey, no problems here.. it is not my field or my liability.

Shartley, I guess you're right about full auto, but I don't mean to use this to overshoot anybody or anything. It will be VERY handy when someone is hammering my bunker with paint, cause I can snapshoot like 5 shots very quickly.
I understand completely. But honestly there is not much difference between 5 shots and 3 if you are looking to make someone stop shooting at you. And you will have to keep in mind that most fields who are responsible will not allow a runaway marker, so unless you only plan to use it at that field…..

Thanks for all the response! Keep 'em coming! Also, if it's no trouble, check your tanks and see what input psi you have it on and tell me how reactive it is
Mine is set to 800, and is very reactive. I can rip out shot groups of 5 or 6 in a blink of an eye.. and I am not a “master”. So I think that says a lot for the marker.

I think Black said it best though:

Trying to make your gun go into runaway mode just blends paint and eats sears. The gun wasn't designed to do that. It's a great way of really messing up your gun.
But that would mean you would have to have it repaired more often as well… and what better place than to have this done and buy the new parts from than by those who “encouraged” you to make it a runaway marker in the first place? ;) hmmm Think about it. Kind of like your Dentist telling you to never brush your teeth. :D