What's up with these rules?

[dre1919]

Ok, so I'm reading a few articles over the weekend and I see there is this popular opinion of adapting a set of rules like the PanAm circuits' for paintball nationally. After this, I went and read the rules from the PanAm and determined they must be trying to be the paintball nazis or something. They have it set up so you have to wear pants, a long sleeve shirt with the sleeves down at all times, no stickers on your equipment, no brightly colored jerseys that may inhibit the spotting of a hit, no customising your mask in any way, etc, etc. I think a standardized set of rules could be a good idea, and I certainly agree with their classification rules, but some of their rules are totally useless. Who cares if you want to wear a short sleeve shirt? That should be your business. Likewise with a mask...what difference is it what you do to it as long as it meets safety standards? I'm certain the PanAm is a fine tournament series, as is evidenced by their longevity, but I think this is waaaay too much assimilation of the players. What's next? Are we all going to be wearing black and white, shooting only white paint with a barcode on our backs? Just thought I'd see what you all thought about this.

[Cha0tic]

i think these rules are good, and helps the sport. one of the problems with paintball is that there is no one set of rules or regulations for paintball. certain fields have certain rules and regulations for play. if we adapt one set of rules for all play, paintball will look more like a mainstream sport.

[TheTramp]

While I don't really think you should have to wear long pants and long sleeve shirts, I do agree with no stickers on hoppers. They make it difficult to tell at a distence if your hopper has been hit. Having rings in you mask doesn't look like a hit so I think that should be fine.

[Major Ho]

It is in my experience that a hit on care skin, eg. your forearm can be cleaned/wiped off quite easily. At a local tourney they also had us roll down our sleeves or have long sleeves for insurance purposes. Something about risk of injury or some odd mumbo jumbo. Thats my only explanation for the long sleeve deal. They just want the players to be safe as possible?

[PsychoMag]

My thought about clothing is

First, it is VERY easy to wipe paint from your skin, just look at Bob Long getting shot in the hand :)

second, it is a safety precaution as well.

Third, about pants, my perception of the pants rule is that your legs must be covered, but even NPPL allows you to wear shorts as long as you have shin gaurds to protect the front of your legs...

[TheTramp]

I hadn't thought about the ease of wiping paint off skin. That's a good point.

[dre1919]

I totally agree safety comes first, and making hits easier to see is a good thing as well. I would just want to see a standardized set of rules come out for everyone that included relevant and important guidelines, not how "Billy" can't have blue stripes on his mask because the powers that be don't like blue stripes. That's idiotic. Good example: I have a black JT Spectra 260 with an assortment of 3/4" steel spikes on it for intimidation and flava. This doesn't harm anyone or anything, except making paint easier to break on my mask which is my problem anyway. However, if I played in the PanAm right now that wouldn't be acceptable. What difference does it make? :confused:

[hitech]

Originally posted by PsychoMag
First, it is VERY easy to wipe paint from your skin...

Yes it is. The rule about "full length" clothing goes way back, before Pam Am or NPPL.

[Paul La Rue]

If I remember correctly, back in the old days, there was a theam that played in short sleeves and shorts. They covered their skin in vaseline, for the express reason of wiping.

This lead to the full length clothing rule.

[shartley]

All sports have rules and uniform requirements. Team Sports tend to have even more than “individualized” sporting events. That is just the way of things.

At some point rules must be laid down… and many of us are wanting the same for Paintball. And that is GREAT! As was stated, part of the big problem with Paintball is its lack of Organized Rules presenting a “face” to the public for its “Pro Players” and Top Tournaments. This is something that we take for granted with ALL other sports… but SHAME when they do so to Paintball?

Personal expression? Come on… that just does not wash in a team sport. Do you see Professional Baseball Players getting upset that they have to look like everyone else? How about Football? Hockey? Soccer? No? So why paintball?

Simply put, anyone is free to look any way they want to when NOT playing at Sanctioned Events. The private player would still be allowed to look and play how they feel, and will be allowed to express their “uniqueness” in the ways they think they need to. But when you move up to the “Big League” you will then have to follow the Uniform and Equipment guidelines that are set by the governing agencies…. Just like any other sport.

When my Son has friends over and we practice Soccer in our field, they can wear anything they want. They can even be missing shin pads, not have mouth guards, and wear basketball shoes. However, when they play as a TEAM against other teams in sanctioned games, they must all wear the same uniform, have all of the safety equipment, and follow any other rules the event organizers feel is necessary… period. And if we don’t like it, we don’t have to play in those events.

The same is true for backyard football games… company softball games… club events, etc. We often see self expression, lack of standards, etc. Hey, NO problem. :D

I think this is what some people are missing.. you WILL have a choice. You WON’T have to follow their rules. And you DON’T have to participate in any event sanctioned by them either. Small tournaments may be run the way the organizers want, but I would suggest they take up the same rules set by the larger organizations for the sake of standardization.

This will also only affect a small portion of paintball players… those who want to compete in the higher levels, or even just at a more competitive level. But the vast majority of paintball players will remain unaffected by the rules. The same way the vast majority of skiers are not affected by competition skiing rules, but still enjoy the sport. The examples of those NOT affected by Tournament rules are almost limitless, as well as parallel examples for other organized sports.

We may not all agree which rules are “needed” or “valid”, but that is true with most everything…. But something should be done.

When was the last time you heard this? “I would LOVE to play professional Basketball, but you know, the uniform and equipment rules are just too much for me…. I prefer to do anything I want, and express who I am with what I wear.” ;) Come on… Even Dennis Rodman can deal with it.

[Ultimator]

Although I for the most part agree with Shartley, I'll have to play on his Dennis Rodman example. Look at him, although he wears the uniforms, shoes, etc, he still finds a way to represent himself in his crazy hairstyles and piercings. Again, paintball is nothing like any other conventional sport. In Baseball, or anything else for example, how in heaven's name would it matter if you wore something completely different than everyone else? There is no paint to wipe either way.

I feel that you should be able to personalize your mask as long as nothing represents a hit. Heck, if someone wants to put rings in his mask and make him glitter and sparkle, good for me, it's that much easier to see him when he sticks his head out of a bunker.

One last thing ... all of these problems could be solved with more referees at big events like this. This means that player A shoots player B but player B has no time to wipe because the ref calls it as soon as he sees and checks for a splatter.

My $.02

[dre1919]

Ok, first of all, I would like to state that the team I captain has uniform rules. I set them forth in an attempt to put a professional appearance and a semblance of a uniformity on all my players. We wear long pants and long sleeve shirts underneath a short sleeve jersey for safety sake. We even have the same colored masks and for the most part, equipment. That's all well and good and goes right along with generalized rules such as those set forth by the PanAm. Hell, our team colors are even black and white so there shouldn't be any danger of losing a hit in the sea of bright colors were wearing. My point is, I think a universal set of rules to govern the way paintball is played everywhere would be great, but I would like to see them be relevant. You gave me the example of pro sports SHartley, and that's a good one, but if you look even they have relatively stupid rules in those as well. In the NFL this year, they passed a rule stating you cannot wear any color of head bandana but black. What difference does it make if the Cardinals punter wants to wear a burgandy colored one, since it is a team color and all? Oops! The league says you can't! No, most players aren't going to balk at playing in games or tourneys simply because they don't wanna play with a certain kind of equipment. However, this isn't the pros. Most of us don't get paid to play and so it's just for fun. I don't see the fun in going to play somewhere and when you get there, they tell you half your equipment won't pass "inspection" because they like black masks and you have a blue one. (This is a relative extreme example, but it could happen). My reasoning for posting my opinion about this is concern for the future. I don't want a sport with a lot of diversity to change into one "main" league and a bunch of disorganized "hobbists" playing in backyards because they don't like some unecissary rules. All I'm saying is, of course you should be professional when appearing at an event, sure, wear whatever when practicing or playing rec on the weekends, but do we need rules governing what color hopper you have or whether you mask has a sticker on it? :rolleyes:

[dre1919]

Originally posted by Ultimator
Although I for the most part agree with Shartley, I'll have to play on his Dennis Rodman example. Look at him, although he wears the uniforms, shoes, etc, he still finds a way to represent himself in his crazy hairstyles and piercings. Again, paintball is nothing like any other conventional sport. In Baseball, or anything else for example, how in heaven's name would it matter if you wore something completely different than everyone else? There is no paint to wipe either way.

I feel that you should be able to personalize your mask as long as nothing represents a hit. Heck, if someone wants to put rings in his mask and make him glitter and sparkle, good for me, it's that much easier to see him when he sticks his head out of a bunker.

One last thing ... all of these problems could be solved with more referees at big events like this. This means that player A shoots player B but player B has no time to wipe because the ref calls it as soon as he sees and checks for a splatter.

My $.02


I agree. Of course, the rules nazis could still sweep in and say, "Well, Dennis, ya got rainbow hair today and that doesn't match the league mandate.." Good example of a useless rule.

[shartley]

Although I for the most part agree with Shartley, I'll gave to play on his Dennis Rodman example. Look at him, although he wears the uniforms, shoes, etc, he still finds a way to represent himself in his crazy hairstyles and piercings.
Thank you. However, I will point out that your playing on the Dennis Rodman example is seriously flawed.

Dennis Rodman expresses himself with Non-Uniform or Equipment things. He colors his hair, gets tattoos, and gets piercings… he does not alter the uniform. I don’t recall ever seeing a rule that prohibits a paintball player from doing any of the things Dennis does to himself personally. To make your analogy work, you would have to prove that he altered his actual uniform or equipment… which he does not.

In fact, there are many Pro Athletes that do similar things. However, they do not have the liberty to alter the uniform or equipment (minus a few exceptions.. but to point them out would not be relevant to this conversation.). How long does a Paintball Player stay behind his mask? Only during the actual game? That leaves how long to sport his/her wild hair, tattoos, piercings, etc. and show his/her creativity and uniqueness?

I just don’t see how the rules would prohibit that.

I DO agree that more Refs are needed, and add to that “Patched” Refs just like in Soccer and many other sports.

[Ultimator]

Glad to see my point didn't get too mangled. :)

[Jonno06]

well if they actually had refs..that,well,REF(!),maybe there would be any wiping....i mean,if a ref is right there watching you,you arent gonna wipe...

isnt it gonna look odd with a bunch of welts on your arm???

i hate these rules....

[shartley]

Ultimator
LOL Sorry… I see now that you were expanding on, not trying to contradict my Dennis Rodman example.. LOL Sorry.. long day and I read too fast. Again, I apologize… :)

[Ultimator]

Originally posted by shartley
Ultimator
LOL Sorry… I see now that you were expanding on, not trying to contradict my Dennis Rodman example.. LOL Sorry.. long day and I read too fast. Again, I apologize… :) lol yep ... it's alright. :)

[dre1919]

Qouted from PanAm rules:

1.3 Clothing & Gear:

A. Players must wear full-length pants and a long-sleeve top (e.g., shirt, jacket or pullover). Pants and shirtsleeves must be fully extended during game play to the ankles and wrists respectively. A player may wear only one layer of clothing underneath his exterior pants and top. The player’s clothing may not resemble or be of a similar color pattern to that of the judges. A player may not wear or carry any multi-colored or patterned clothing and equipment that makes distinguishing a paint mark difficult for the judges (this includes decals on loaders, etc.). Thin protective covers are allowed on cylinders, but they are prohibited on paintgun loaders.

Should it make a difference if I roll my sleeves up half way because it's hot out? If there were more ref's and they did their job nobody's going to wipe anything off bare skin. (I also like the idea it's hard to wipe a welt.) I'm not talking about what you do to yourself personally as expression, no one really has any control over that. I believe rules and uniformity during events are fine as long as they serve a useful purpose, that's all.:cool:

[Ultimator]

Originally posted by dre1919
... and a bunch of disorganized "hobbists" playing in backyards ...I read that about 3 times and each time it came out as "hobbits". *Sigh* too much Lord of the Rings ;).

[dre1919]

:D Actually, we have a guy on my team whose nickname is "Hobbit." He,he,he... LOL bro.

[dropkick1]

those are some beat rules, i agree we need a set of rules but not nazi rules.

ken

[Muzikman]

Originally posted by dre1919
Qouted from PanAm rules:

1.3 Clothing & Gear:

A. Players must wear full-length pants and a long-sleeve top (e.g., shirt, jacket or pullover). Pants and shirtsleeves must be fully extended during game play to the ankles and wrists respectively. A player may wear only one layer of clothing underneath his exterior pants and top. The player’s clothing may not resemble or be of a similar color pattern to that of the judges. A player may not wear or carry any multi-colored or patterned clothing and equipment that makes distinguishing a paint mark difficult for the judges (this includes decals on loaders, etc.). Thin protective covers are allowed on cylinders, but they are prohibited on paintgun loaders.

Should it make a difference if I roll my sleeves up half way because it's hot out? If there were more ref's and they did their job nobody's going to wipe anything off bare skin. (I also like the idea it's hard to wipe a welt.) I'm not talking about what you do to yourself personally as expression, no one really has any control over that. I believe rules and uniformity during events are fine as long as they serve a useful purpose, that's all.:cool:

Again, there is an Insurance thing with the long pants and shirts. It may not seem logical to you, but again, what insurance is logical. This falls into the same thing as NHL hockey. You get a misconduct penalty if you get into a fight and your opponent pulls your jersey off. Why? Who knows, but it is a rule, much like the pulling down the long sleeves. Also, if you would roll up your pants and or shirt sleeves, this gives an area of more fabric and thus getting a possible bounce. There is also a rule about tucking your shirt into your pants that is for the same reason.

As Shartley stated, there is nothing stopping you from putting your hair up in a mo-hawk or sticking a dozen rings in your nose.

I am also unsure of the exact mask rules you read, but what they are trying to prevent are people from cutting parts off their masks to make it easier to hear and yell, thus possibly making it unsafe. You have to remember that there are hundreds of participants in large tournaments, the governing bodies of these events do not have the time to look at every mask and determine if the modification to the mask makes it unsafe or not. They look and if it is a stock, non-modified mask, they can usually rest assured that it is still safe.

[Army]

The altered mask rule, was to stop players from folding up the Flex and Ize mouthguards, and/or cutting away pieces so as to be able to communicate better. Obviously, this leaves your neck, mouth, nose, and cheeks uncovered. It also means you cannot hang patches, stickers, rag strips, or any thing that may prevent a ball from breaking. There is also a rule about slick/slippery "Doo-Rags" that may ricochet hits.

Nothing prevents you from putting in spikes...except maybe the owners of the Sup'air bunkers!

PHSsssssssssssssssss......:D

[rjvemt1]

If I remember correctly, back in the old days, there was a theam that played in short sleeves and shorts. They covered their skin in vaseline, for the express reason of wiping. paintballs first urban legend!

[timag]

Hence my loader sticker:

You Can't Wipe A Welt

[dre1919]

Thanks for the input eveybody. I definitely see ya'lls views on these issues as far as keeping cheating to a minimum. That is a good thing. Hopefully you see where I was coming from on the issue of a governing body becoming "too hands" on with a players individual rights. As long as we have good rules that serve a purpose, it's cool. Thanks. ;)

[kosmo]

I too agree that paintball should have a universal standard of rules to allow the sport to become more standardized. However, the problem arises when strict rules are made universal. When PanAm starts saying don't have spiked helmets, ok then don't play PanAm. But then soon enough, that rule becomes standardized and more and more fields start introducing those rules. For a set of rules to be universally acceptable, they must be general enough to allow individual areas to adjust to their liking. Look at it like the American government. We have the Federal laws controlling universal crimes such as murder, whereas local statues cover little things like speed limits. Paintball must also have a rule set adopted like that. If things start to become standardized, many people will not be able to express their individuality at the local level because the locals are emulating the pros. Also with the strict guidelines set up by one organization like that comes the increased risk of commercial influence. I worked in construction for a few years, and codes were constantly changing because some company thought up a new product that could make them money, then lobbied with enough cash that it became mandated to use their product, even at the expense of both the workers and the customers, often causing long term damage to the house. While that is only an example of something I have experienced, it does happen in many different jobs. And SHartley, as far as sports stars not complaining about what they have to wear, Randy Moss was fined a HUGE amount of money last season because he wore his Nike hat on the sidelines instead of the NFL sanctioned Reebok hat. I sure as hell don't want to see anybody get fined because JT paid PanAm or whatever to sanction their hats as the official hat of paintball, and I or someone else wore a different hat. Things like that go on, and paintball is not immune to them. In conclusion, I think standardized rules is a good thing, but not strict standardized rules as that takes away too much freedom.

[paintbattler]

i think they are pretty good and fair rules..IMO i wouldnt change any

[hitech]

Originally posted by timag
You Can't Wipe A Welt

Nope, you can't. And you don't need to. Ever try to call someone out on a welt?