Alarming News

[Polishpickles451]

Today at the field some of my friends said that they heard that AGD is going out of bussiness. I told them NO WAY it can't be but then some other guys came and said they were not surprised. This one kid said that the E-Mag, though a great gun, wasn't selling well at all. Is this true? are there any reasons why AGD sales would be slowing down??
Around my area no AGD markers in site...

[Army]

HAHAHHAHhahaha! So funny to keep seeing this!

No, AGD is alive and well and strong in the market. AGD is introducing more game changing gear than ever. AGD's "other world" of military and Police contracts is second to no other maker. Heck, even WPD took Tom's original thoughts about frames, and adapted the Z-grip attitude into the IR3 frame (See the John Rice interview on WARPIG).

How this rumor got started and keeps going is beyond me. It's the same reason "Cockers shoot farther and more accurate" than any other gun. :P

[Rynoboy06]

We get this all the time. This rumor has been around the block more than a few times, and TRUST ME, next time you hear it LAUGH at them, because they're SO VERY WRONG. AGD would be out of business so many times by now, it's silly. It's a load of, hee hee, Brass Eagle paint, if you know what I mean.

[spazzed]

CRAP!!! A big steaming pile of it, that goes squich between your toes when you step on it!!:D :rolleyes:

[WickeDKlowN]

Originally posted by spazzed
CRAP!!! A big steaming pile of it, that goes squich between your toes when you step on it!!:D :rolleyes:

lol, well put spazzed

[WhoDaresPlay]

Originally posted by Army
Heck, even WPD took Tom's original thoughts about frames, and adapted the Z-grip attitude into the IR3 frame (See the John Rice interview on WARPIG).

Wow, what a wild play on words. Not only did he not mention anything along those lines... one wouldn't even hold the z-grip the way you hold the space frame.

Break out your sound analyzer boys, we need to strip apart PigTv now!

[Restola]

crap and i just sold all my AGD stock!

[Tactical Neural Implant]

hmmmm funny, I just picked up the latest issue of APG and I see AGD products in pictures throughout the magazine. (Nice article Tom) ask them about that. I have to agree with Spazzed - It's Crap!

[magking1971]

OH oh, I just sent my gun in! Will it be like the tribal company and never get it back?:rolleyes:

[shartley]

Of course AGD is alive well and strong in the market! Of course their markers just FLY off the shelves in paintball shops! Who said otherwise? I would like to trounce on them. Those silly fools!

Tom and other diehard AGD folks have been laughing at people who thought AGD has been going under for YEARS now. But NOW Tom posts about his problems and how he has to work harder to compete with Angels and other markers? How many AO members have went out and purchased Angels? But how many Angel owners have jumped THAT ship and joined the U.S.S. Magmania?

Tom posts that he has to shake up the market to grab attention. If he was alive and strong, this would simply NOT be needed. AGD is indeed alive, but how strong they are in the market is another issue. They DO make fantastic markers, and can go head to head with ANY others (on the fields)… but when people try to laugh at folks who think AGD may be in some sort of trouble, it bothers me.

Having a great product, and having that product do well on the market is another story. AGD is indeed beginning to come back, but that would indicate that it WENT someplace, sorry. And Tom’s posts about his new marketing style and WHY clearly indicates that AGD is NOT as strong as many on AO would like to claim. A bit more honesty would be nice.

When people say things like “AGD is dead.” Or “AGD is going out of business.” Instead of laughing at them and saying how STRONG AGD is (which is actually a bit like putting your head in the sand and takes away any credibility you may have in arguments), what would be more accurate is to simply say “You ain’t seen nothing yet!” or “Hold on, AGD is a about to shake things up!” But to keep claiming that AGD has not been struggling is only fooling yourselves. Sorry.

And any reference to Military and Police contracts is meaningless as it pertains to Paintball Players and the Paintball World. If Tom suddenly supplied ALL Military and Police Departments with his products and became the richest man in the World, but he only sold 2 actual recreational Paintball Markers, he would be DEAD in the paintball world as most “players” see it. But some would still like to argue that point.

Tom IS the underdog, and has openly admitted it time and again recently. And you can NOT be the underdog unless you are NOT doing well. So some people may want to remove those rose colored glasses. Tom knows there has been a problem, and only by FACING it (as he is… although many don’t agree that HOW he is is the best plan of action) can something be done. Saying there is no problem, or never has been is just not facing the truth.

AGD is NOT ENRON, so can we please have just a bit more honesty? And anyone who would like to attack me for this post…. Think again. Who’s markers do I actively promote? Who’s other products do I actively recommend? Who’s company gets my support? AGD.

[dansim]

next time some one tells you that simply say(yes im a pic thief)

[Army]

Originally posted by WhoDaresPlay


Wow, what a wild play on words. Not only did he not mention anything along those lines... one wouldn't even hold the z-grip the way you hold the space frame.

Break out your sound analyzer boys, we need to strip apart PigTv now!

John Rice, on PIG-TV, said that the .45 frame is all wrong for paintball, since it was made to be held at arms length. The IR3 frame lets you arm be in a more natural position to shoot a paintball gun.

This is almost word for word what Tom has always said about the Z-grip.:cool:

[Polishpickles451]

It's great to see everyone supporting AGD...
that was all reassuring, and yes, I told them about why AGD would be strong. But locally (Central Jersey) three local shops had many mags in stock two years ago, and didn't buy any new stock for 2001 and 2002. I asked around and the shop owners said that mags didn't sell. The truth is that at local tournements I only see one or two mags. NJ is a place where paintball is very popular, and no one lives more then 20 minutes away from a paintball place. And they get a bad rep around here. Hopefully it's just a regional thing - as AGD products are definatly, in my opinion, the best.
Just curious that in my area they are so un-popular. By no means am I saying that AGD is going down, and I hope they NEVER do, I'm just trying to raise this point about what I see around me. It would be great if someone had somekind of report about AGD sales in different areas.

[Trigger_Happy]

THERE IS NO POSSIBLE WAY THAT WE WILL SEE THE END OF AGD ANYTIME SOON.

On the other hand, has anybody noticed that mags are scarce in tournys? Cockers and Angels dominate. I believe that a mag can whip a cocker, so I see no reason for that, but it IS true. I din't know what it is, but the mag just doesn't appeal to upper level players the way other guns do. Maybe the Lever 10/Better marketing will make a difference, but right now it's not happening.

Of the tourny scene, Automag might as wll be spelled "R-e-s-p-e-c-t-e-d". Everybody knows that Kingmann, Tippmann, and every other low to mid range semi might as well bow down and worship AGD :)

It is clear that there is a gap between the *EDIT* DO not circumvent the cuss filters, re-read the rules. Army whipping that the mag can give other semi-autos and the tourny scene filled with electo markers. The E-mag didn't cut it when it came to Angel vs. E-mag. When players decide to trash thier tippy and get a performer, they are buying what the pros use.

I will probably get slapped upside the head for posting this, but you all know that at least to a certain degree it's all true.

[FutureMagOwner]

ill be gentle with my blows

emags angels cockers etc blow tippmanns out of the water for one clear reason. tippmann doesnt give a damn about tournament guns. unlike every company(including kingman and be) they market rec player guns not shiny "2 toned graphic annodizing" and the likes because they make quality guns that can be practically run over by a truck and not break for cheap, and they look damn ugly but they can look bad arse if you use em good.

i think the problem is is that people by the stock gun and think because the trigger is heavier than most guns and they chop with it that "this piece of crap is a load of poop!"(lol i just know someone is gunna quote that quote)

[Kaiser Bob]

Originally posted by Polishpickles451
It's great to see everyone supporting AGD...
that was all reassuring, and yes, I told them about why AGD would be strong. But locally (Central Jersey) three local shops had many mags in stock two years ago, and didn't buy any new stock for 2001 and 2002. I asked around and the shop owners said that mags didn't sell. The truth is that at local tournements I only see one or two mags. NJ is a place where paintball is very popular, and no one lives more then 20 minutes away from a paintball place. And they get a bad rep around here. Hopefully it's just a regional thing - as AGD products are definatly, in my opinion, the best.
Just curious that in my area they are so un-popular. By no means am I saying that AGD is going down, and I hope they NEVER do, I'm just trying to raise this point about what I see around me. It would be great if someone had somekind of report about AGD sales in different areas.

Whereabouts are you in NJ? Because last time I was at FBM, I noticed a rather high number of mags, from classics to Micro-E's. As for as tourneys go, to be honest, id have to say its the fear of breaking that keeps most players from carrying a mag in a tournament, however most seasoned players will give the mag its props, as it is one of the best designed, most durable semis in paintball.

[Polishpickles451]

i usually play at Topgun. I don't think people are afraid of breakage, frankly, mags are the only guns that absolutly never break, especially compared to cockers which have some problem all the time. If you go to MI or East Coast Painbtall, or Proshot --NO mags.
But seriously - everyone is saying well Mags are great so they can't be going under. I agree, but does anyone have any real facts, like sales reports or something??

[Brian68mag]

yes, i dont see amny mags eathier, except one field in wheatland wyoming, the owners shoot tricked classics, anoded and ****. In colorado ive seen like 3, oregon like 1

[Trigger_Happy]

WOW! It's amazing how many people are saying "I wouldn't doubt that AGD is going under! Only one of the kids who I play with in my backyard owns a mag, and I'm SURE he's the ONLY person who owns one in CA!"

If AGD goes under, you will know soon enough. ;) In the meantime, stop annoucing the fact that you don't know what you are talking about by saying that they are!

[Blazingace]

I live in Central Jersey and I understand what you guys are talking about. I went to Hector's Outdoor Haven and Hector ( who happens to be very cool) informed me that AGD wasn't doing well. This had me worried. On the other hand I went to FBM one day and saw 1/2 a dozen 'Mags among the groups that were playing( mostly with rentals). I can play back to back games until I have to reload with my 'Mag, while others shooting "Pro" markers have to repair and rearm. One example was a guy shooting a really nice cocker. I watched as every third ball flew straight and true, in between they just came puking out the front of his marker. AGD is like BETA and the Apple computer, bullet proof, better and not popular. If you ain't shooting a Bushy, Impy, Timmy, Shocker, Cocker or Angel most people who play don't think you can compete. Long live AGD and Long live the 'Mag!!!!!!!!

[boggerman]

Where I live in western Colorado, I own two of the only three mags I have ever seen. The other one is owned by a guy that shoots an led adrenaline angel most of the time. He only gets out the mag when all the spyder/tippman/rebel/b.e. shooters cry too much about playing against his angel, "that's not fair" *sniff, sniff*. Funny, I got the same response when they saw my mini after I installed my warpfeed and i-frame and they saw me rip off a 25-30 shot string pretty fast.:D

[pip_999]

afew factors coem into play here

stores wont buy AGD stuff because tehre isnt much publicity about it, when you go to regoinal tournies tehre are people tehre who know about cockers and can fix them in 0-10 seconds. but mag owners fix there own problems, so if a player with a spider goes to a tourny he doesnt see and AGD booth so he figures tehre is no AGD, and instead see's a cocker, and buys that. for example why was there no agd at skyball?!?!?! i live in canada and i was quite peeved about this, i love AGD and swear by tehre products, and i wanted to talk to afew tech guys tehre, but tehre was no booth. so to all the regoinal players who dont play pball much who attended skyball, didnt see AGD. instead what do you know, the first freakin booth ANGEL ANGEL ANGEL ANGEL, ALL OVER IT. you could see if from a mile away. its all puiblicity

another thing is STYLE, we all know how much it matters, as much as you want to say performance over looks, everyone wants there damn gun to look hella nice, no maytter what you say. people will pay the extra $50 to get something ANNO, when youc an go and get somehting that can improve your performance. AGD the way i always saw it was a tube with a grip!!! tahts the way everyone see's it. i go to my local field and people have never even heard of AGD before. People want cockers cause they are completely customizable, i mean you can buy EVERYTHING FOR THOSE THINGS, and 90% places stock the stuff. people upgrade stuff they dont need to, just to make it look cool, so when they do go play rec-ball they can impress the noob's. They go and buy red cocking rods, red back block, red pushpins, red elbows, red hose, red trigger shoes, red stickies!!!! you tell me how that changes teh performance of the marker!

IT DOESNT!

lastly comes down to upgrades! AGD offers you thebest off the shelf, there are no upgrades for teh stock vlave that are better, instead you can only upgrade grips, frames, barrel, foregrip, site rail, and the bolt (if you want too) stores wont stock AGD if they know that they cant make money off of upgrade parts, that where the money is!!! in the upgrades, people buy a $400 marker, then they spend $900 on upgrades! its crazy stores wont stock AGD because its too good out of the box, and they want there customers too come back and say this isnt working so they hand the guy the cocker, he fixes it and while they are there they buy a new cocking rod or something stupid!


please dont flame my post it is simply my opinion the one other reason is because tom was off with other stuff making the police training and that stuff! so he didnt have time to come out with a whole new screw.

thats just my $0.04

any opinions

oh and sorry bout the spelling

[Polishpickles451]

absolutly right. TOM - you need some advertising. The only mag i saw ads for in a paintball mag was for a proteam microEmag. I know i tell everyone i know to buy AGD guns, and they end up buying something different cause the 'expert' at the shop tol em to. I like the Apple/Beta analogy, superior product that just isn't too popular.

[dre1919]

Okay, I wanna say I agree with shartley on the rose colored glasses theory. I am a proud 'Mag owner and I'll be the first to tell you there are "issues". I've been playing for nine years, and have owned 'Mags for almost five of those years. I started out with an Automag when I used to play rec, then upgraded to an RT when I started captaining a tourney team. When I bought the RT, it was considered equally among the best out there in markers. However, like three months after I got it the Angel came into widespread popularity and the Shockers and Cockers enjoyed a resurgence in sales and apperances in events...at least here in the Midwest. Anyway, I couldn't have been happier with the performance of the RT internally, but I HATED that trigger. It did make a great blender though... So for a short bit, the dark side almost lured me in and I tried selling my RT...

Well, I soon found out I couldn't GIVE it away at the stores here. Why? Nobody was buying AGD stuff here at all. Seriously, it was all Angels and Cockers here. You couldn't even get fair money for re-selling a Shock.I got flak all the time from people who would tell me "nobody plays with 'Mags anymore." (of course, you can imagine what I would tell them:D ) So what I opted for is getting a Hyperframe on my RT. This was done because total amount of $$ it's the same as buying an E-Mag, but the overall size of the gun is smaller and since I play point, space is a premium. I couldn't be happier right now! I got that Hyperframe on my RT (which is a series before the RT Pro so I took the excess sight rail off) and it smokes. I wouldn't even flinch betting it against an Angel for volume and accuracy. But, this is $500 later from the base gun.

What I think happened is, the RT's trigger turned a lot of people off I knew because it's either a "like it or hate it" product. The other problem I see is the lack of brightly colored anoded stuff available. We all know everybody in our sport loves the custom splash painted faded anoded everything on there guns. 'Mags just don't come that way standard, with the exception of the new Xtreme Mags. I think that turned a lot of people off in the upper levels because the felt it lumped the Mag in with the Tippman's and Spyders that came basically one way then, (not that that was a bad thing). The RT was the only odd one of the family, in chrome and looking like a mideval torture weapon, but there again the trigger scared away some.

So the report from the Midwest is, AGD is most certainly NOT dead, but it is slightly wounded. You walk into a proshop here or go to a tourney and you'll see Cockers, Angels, Bushy's, and Shockers and that's about it. A few "rebels" will be playing with Mags and I salute them...especially since I'm one of them. I think the Lvl 10 and the new Xtremes will do a huge amount of work for AGD's PR, but advertisement and tourney presence is a must. There are simply too many good markers out there to be arrogant or aloof about it. We all know the 'Mag is the best, but not everyone does. One thing that made me smile though was this: We had team practice last week and one of my covermen uses a Shocker. Actually, he's the only one on the team not using an AGD product (he used to shoot an RT) and his Shocker broke down before he played a game. Luckily, I had an extra Automag lying around and let him use it. He fell in love with it so much, he wanted to buy it. He said, "Good thing you had that 'Mag here today." I think a lot of wisdom comes from that. KISS: Keep It Simple Stupid.

Earlier, I said AGD wasn't dead, but MAYBE wounded. Well, we all know you don't mess with a wounded lion... Anyway, just my opinion. I sing AGD's praises wherever I go and LOVE my RT even more now.

[pip_999]

i want more opinions!
on this matter

[Polishpickles451]

UP
this definatly should be discussed

the 'great surprise' better come fast since there are no mags on the shelves of shops here, and from what it seems, in plenty of other places around the US. Last time I played in Poland, so many people had mags, I guess the market is there now :)

[obsolete898]

Mags definately have a bad reputation out here too.

[AGD]

I come back from LA where our stuff is going to star in a paintball movie and this is being worked over agin. We have been all over this before and you all know the story.

If you just recently heard we are going out of business you are not getting around much. This rumor has been going around for YEARS. Funny we are still around to let people keep saying that.

In paintball you are in trouble ang going out of business when your no longer number one. If you have been number 5 for a decade your fine. We are obviously not number one at this point no mystery there. We did go after a military market which you already know about. Yes that hurt our standings in the traditional market because we didn't do anything new for a long time. This is all well known and previously discussed.

Most people in the consumer paintball industry have no idea where we stand in the military market. We want to keep it this way so we don't have a lot of competition crowding us in that area. Hence they only see that we have not done anything in a long time, have lost our top status and equate this to going out of business.

As I have already stated, except for a few loose ends we are finished with the military projects. Our focus has been on making progress in the consumer market. We are systmatically fixing long standing problems with our product line. Plastic nubbins, cocker threads, aluminum bodies, 45 grip frames, front grips, 4500 psi systems and LVL10 mods are part of a sweeping rework of our line.

New advertising will not sell old products. The LVL10 mods should be the finishing touch, then we can get to the business of getting back out to the general market.

Until then we have our hardy band of merry men here on AO who are as much a part of AGD as the staff in the factory. You all know most of what you hear is just perception, that's doesn't change over night. Don't worry, we are working in it!

AGD

[dre1919]

Thanks for the response Tom. I for one began a long standing marriage to the markers AGD makes years ago and never intend on leaving. It's great to hear you're going to come back into the consumer market with a vengence. I'm sure I and all the other AO'ers will be delighted to be able to say "I told you so" to anybody who doubted AGD. Fear the Lion. :cool:

[dre1919]

Originally posted by bunkerhugger

Each of us has the potential to be salesmen for AGD. It all depends on how you carry the gun. [/B]

Well said bro, well said.

[giblit]

ok if AGD went out of business id quit paintball becasue they are my favorite brand :eek: