Spyder E99 better than Automag retro?!

[Gitaroo Man]

I was talking to this guy at school today and he said his NEW Spyder E99 is better than my automag with retro and revy! I was like what?! I told him this was not true and he wouldn't believe me! He thought he could shoot faster with his than mine! Guys, tell him i'm right!:D

[AcemanPB]

your retro is better, alot of spyders with e-frames have problems goin over 10 or 11 bps, if they can even do that

your retro can go up to 26bps with no shoot down plus spyders with e-frames' parts tend to wear down quicker

[TransMan]

an E99 is still just a spyder with an E frame that doest help the design of it any so what u get is a spyder for more money the mag will shoot faster no question bout it

[RT_Luver]

ok...an e-frame might make a spyder able to shoot fast. but lets think about it. a regular mag vs. a regular spyder, mag would win. electro spyder vs. either retro mag/e-mag, mag would win. another thing. you have to remember that the spyders valve doesn't charge up nearly as fst as the retro valve does so they'll have shoot down and other bad things like that

[Paintballer86]

Assuming that the frmae on an E99 is a nice one:
How much does an electonic frame cost?
A: Roughly $2oo.oo

How much does the Spyder E99 cost?
A: $23o.oo

You do the math. :D

[liigod]

nope, those prices are incorrect. i say go for the spyder, better bang for the buck.

[liigod]

http://www.actionvillage.com/011-4020-382-4.html
frame 99 bucks

http://www.actionvillage.com/010-4051.html
spyder 95 bucks

my spyders paint on yer rt mask... priceless

naw, neither gun will make you a better player unless you are a good player limited by your equipment. Both are good guns tho. i say the e 99 is better.

[Brian68mag]

he said a GOOD electronic grip, all spyders are trash, always will be

[AcemanPB]

RT's are built with quality in mind NOT quanity

stick with the ReTro it's a way better gun

[Jonno06]

dude
it should be electro vs electro....

a mag with hyperframe would blow that spyder out of the water....

especially my warped retro hyper mini mag....hehe

i cant wait to get hyperframe

[Ultimator]

How many times have I said it?

A blow-back gun with an electric frame is still a blowback gun.

An automag classic could outshoot it :rolleyes: .

[SlipknotX556]

an automag with a retro valve can out shoot and E99 easy. My friend owns an E99 and he couldnt out shoot my bros Retro mag with warp, it was so funny though he could barrely keep up with the mag, my bro has the stock trigger frame. Now if someone says an E99 can out shoot my emag, I would like to meet the person that says that.

[soccerdude1008]

An automag classic could outshoot it
since when can a mag shoot 40 bps? since that is how fast a spyder can cycle...

[spazzed]

Sheesh. Another one... Cycling & actually shooting are to Very different things. Who cares if a Spyder can cycle at 40 a second? You're not even gonna get anywhere near that. You're lucky if you get to 10, and even then, you're gonna have a buttload of shootdown.... Now, a mag on the other hand, you can get to 10 easy, retro, even higher... Don't insult me with your petty claims of Spyder rulage. You're showing exactly how little you really know, so why don't you do yourself a favor, & actually know what you're talking about before you speak.

[StuDawggie]

Originally posted by soccerdude1008

since when can a mag shoot 40 bps? since that is how fast a spyder can cycle...

No one here said that a mag could pull off 40bps. And a Spyder pulling 40bps is the biggest load of bull that I've ever heard. No gun could realistically fire at that rate of speed with out becoming a blender. You show us on the board a Spyder that can cycle and fire that fast without chopping or suffering a shootdown, and I'll sell my Mag and Tippy to buy that one in a heartbeat.

[AcemanPB]

Originally posted by soccerdude1008

since when can a mag shoot 40 bps? since that is how fast a spyder can cycle...


LOL!!!! yeah my piranha does that when it runs out of co2 LOL!

[soccerdude1008]

i never claimed it could shoot 40 bps so dont give me that crap. also about me the one who doesnt know what im talking about, you people are the ones that say the only reason it cant shoot that fast is because its a spyder. last time i checked bad company could pull more then 10 bps, otherwise they wouldnt last very long in the pro division.

[LawFox32]

guys, spiders wear out very quickly, they break fall apart and are just plain not as well made as an automag, and a spider w/ an e-frame just speeds up the wear on the gun and makes it break quicker; and I agree in the electro-electro contest the retro w/ hyper would blow the e-spyder out of the water

[Kaiser Bob]

Originally posted by soccerdude1008
i never claimed it could shoot 40 bps so dont give me that crap. also about me the one who doesnt know what im talking about, you people are the ones that say the only reason it cant shoot that fast is because its a spyder. last time i checked bad company could pull more then 10 bps, otherwise they wouldnt last very long in the pro division.

K, 1. If Kingman can offer a 100,000 dollar contingency prize for winning the IAO with spyders, you can bet Bad Company is getting some serious dough for using them.

2. If you had enough time and effort to put into the gun, you could get 10-12 max at a somewhat consistant level, but Im sure even Bad Company themselves will tell you it wont outpace a high end electro in ROF, so it shouldent even be an issue.

On a side note, liigod, do you have any positive/constructive things to share here about AGD and their guns, or are you just here to bash?

[LJT]

What is with the 40 bps?!:eek: I have yet to hear anything on any gun that can go over 30 bps (cyclic rate not rof). And another thing, where did all the spyder people come from! This is an Official Automag Owners forum. Granted, I started with a piranha (basically a PMI version of a spyder), but I would take a completely stock automag (no p/f, 1 star valve) over any spyder or spyder clone.

[SlipknotX556]

soccerdude1008........ Theirs no such thing as a stupid question, theirs just stupid people.

[soccerdude1008]

all the spyder people? it seems like im here all by myself... and i never said that mags werent as good as spyders cause that is definitely not the case. id take a rt over a e99 anyday. its just you have to give some credit to them, they arent that bad. and with a eframe, the trigger can be extremely short.

[soccerdude1008]

and slipknot... what in the world are u talking about?

[Gitaroo Man]

i just posted this thread to prove that MAGS are better than the E99 any day. Spyders aren't that bad, they are good beginner guns but i would take a mag anyday like other people have said. Keep posting guys!

[spider54]

ok i dont even consider the guns that bad company shoots as spiders since it doesnt have any of the stock parts other than the body and im not for sure on this but i bet that they have milled them or something. stock mags would outperform stock spyders any day

[Aliens-8-MyDad]

ok this was in someones sig, i acnt rember who but i find it aporopriate for this conversation. " go over to the kingman fourms and ask the president why spyders are better than mags, when he gives you the answer come back here and tell us what he said"

also i bet your friend goes thru 3 cases of paint and he breaks his sear.. then another 2 cases and his hammer, lol spyders just fall apart...

[Gitaroo Man]

lol, so very true

[Lone Gunman]

Accually, to do that, you would need a translater(sp?), because after all, they are made in Korea or some other country. Yeah, yeah, I know, that doesn't mean the president only speaks Korean, but ya know.

Hey Tom... ¿Tu habla espanol, no? LOL

[Gitaroo Man]

LOL, i believe it is, "Tu HABLAS espanol?" anyway, keep posting!

[obsolete898]

I played a game with my buddy's flash, and all I can say is yuck. Yea it can fire quick but not worth the mule like kick and over all cheap feel. Not to mention the lack of consistancy.

[~WarpedRT~]

Well, lets see, IF tahts Kingmans top of the line amrker, then we have to comare it to AGD's top of the line marker, dont we? Put ANY Spyder up against the E-Mag and it will fail, miserably. In fact, almost any other gun in the world will fail, miserably. But even a regular stock mag will beat the hell out of ANY spyder any day. Spyders are cheap pieces of garbage. A simple trigger job does the exact same thing as an e frame does for them.

But remember, it's not just 26 bps that a retro can do, it's 26+. There are NO boundaries.

Your friend is dumb. Bad Company is using them because of money, and the Spyders dont make them better players either. ANY good player can take out ANY one with ANY gun, ANY time. It's skill, not the gun that matters.

[soccerdude1008]

i believe that we have forgotten what makes a marker good. so far you people have had no examples you guys are just saying "oh yeah spyders are junk they break fall apart while your holding them blah blah blah". oh and when did kingman bring out a $1000+ marker? yeah thats what i thought- they didnt. they never claimed that the EM1 would be better then the emag. spyders dont cost as much as mags so obviously they arent going to work as well, stock. get a good reg and your consistency has just boosted way up there. ive gone through 10+ cases with my spyder and havent had to replace a part. maybe if the owner knew how to take care of a gun, it wouldnt give him problems.

[AcemanPB]

just the design of the spyder...

velocity is controled by a spring
major sear/hammer wear goin on
i don't know about you but my old spyder chopped some paint
and i'll say it agian..

Kingman make spyders with quanity in mind, thats why they are cheap, good for people starting out in the sport

AGD makes mags with quailty in mind

[soccerdude1008]

i know people that have had their spyders for 5+ years with no problems with the striker/sear wearing down. also chopping is user error, not the gun's fault. yes i agree AGD makes products that are much more quality then spyders, but u still have to give them some credit. they arent as near as bad as you people here on AO make them out to be.

[SlipknotX556]

Yes they are.

[obsolete898]

Read my previous post.

Yes spyders are good for what they are cheap entry level markers. But have a number of draw backs.

Kick like a damn mule.

Consistancy is not good

Retro 2x trigger mag can get the same if not better ROF and it's mechanical

Over all cheapness of gun

Not great customer service

All in all a spyder is a good gun, but is in no way in the same class as mag. But as it was stated before it's the player not the gun. Lord knows I've been taken out by people with spyders. A guy I work with runs a spyder and he's damn good.

[soccerdude1008]

i swear, you have got to be the most immature person on this entire forum.

[Kaiser Bob]

Well, I personally wont knock spyders, the EM1 looked alright to me, although the shutter and such without a trigger job have pulls a mile long. In any case, i did start with one and my cocking knob came out the first day i played to i returned it, but while i had it it shot just fine for a starter gun. A beginner isnt going to worry about consistancy and sear wear and such, so for its purposes the spyder is just fine.

[SlipknotX556]

Who me?

[soccerdude1008]

yeah you.

[SlipknotX556]

LOL. Well I really dont care what you think so.... before the Mods step into this one, im gonna drop it.

[Aliens-8-MyDad]

well it is true slipknot, i seen alot of your post that look like a monkey wrote them, absolutly no thought... ussually more than one fragmented sentence is needed to create a well thought out post that is worth people reading. I think you are just being a post whore and trying to get the little number of yours over experienced peoples (mods, webmaster, agd, shartly) numbers, so people will think u know something when all those post were was some unthought out responce to a question. if you look back at everyone elses responce to this guys question yours looks utterly stupid!

[SlipknotX556]

Acutally only reason I post something and I have no idea what it is about is because I had a problem while in 1-5 grade and I couldnt stay on foucus on something for more then like 30 min, it was like ADD. But I had that fixed, I was in all like "remedial" classes. Because I had lots of problem with things, but that is personal. So I close with this.

[TransMan]

well spyders are good for what they do i played wth one for 2 years it DID have some wear probs the largest prob with a spyders deisign is thatthe amount of air that is shot out is controled by the amount of time the bolt stays open which is not as effective ans a mags valve but for there price they do the job

[FooTemps]

I don't have a problem with spyders but they don't have the quality and tolerance standers like mags. They fire just fine until around 6 bps stock for me. After I tried to fire faster i either screwed up or it was a mechanical thing that wouldn't let me fire any faster without breaking ever couple balls... I still enjoy playing with any paintball gun though.

[Temo Vryce]

Is the Spyder E99 better than a ReTro Mag? No.
Is the Spyder E99 better than a Stock Mag? Maybe.

Spyders aren't the piece of junk that you guys keep saying they're. You guys need to learn not to trash one product and praise another in the same breath. Sure AGD makes a better product than Kingmann but that doesn't mean that the Spyder is a piece of junk. In my opinion the Spyder is the best entry level marker on the Market. It's a low cost marker that anyone can get. Use it for a year or to then up grade to Mag, Cocker, or what ever. You guys all respect the Mods here right? Well guess what CPhilip has a Spyder and he loves it. Is it better than his mag? Doubtful. Is it a piece of junk like you guys say they are? Not a chance. Don't trash another companies product. This is AGD forum, and we are better than that.

[shartley]

Okay… The way I see it, there are a couple issues being argued, and only ONE of them was asked.

I was talking to this guy at school today and he said his NEW Spyder E99 is better than my automag with retro and revy! I was like what?! I told him this was not true and he wouldn't believe me! He thought he could shoot faster with his than mine! Guys, tell him i'm right!
The real question is what he means by “better”. To think an out of the box Spyder E99 is of higher quality than an Automag is just silly. I say this even if he could actually shoot it faster (which is another issue), the quality of the marker would not be close to that of the automag. This argument deals simply with “quality” of parts, workmanship, and reliability issues.

Now, if you want to use “better” as in “can shoot faster”, that is another issue. I always throw any “full auto” figures out the window when discussing this topic for the average paintball player…. Simply because they will not be able to use that at most paintball fields (if not all… I say this so some smart-alic does not bring up some crap field run by retards someplace that DOES allow full auto). So, what matters is how fast YOU can pull the triggers. And THAT in all honesty, is a personal thing, not one of how good the marker is (in itself).

This 40BPS cycling rate is just silly. There are only 2 markers that have actually PROVED that they can sustain high rates of fire (in Full-Auto) and neither came close to 40BPS. One was 20BPS and the other was 18-20BPS. And neither of them was a Spyder. But one WAS a Mag. Sorry.

But the average person shoots between 5-13BPS in manual mode. So, as long as your marker can keep up with YOUR manual BPS rate with no chopping, you have a good match for YOU. And that is what matters on the field, isn’t it? If your marker can match your personal BPS rate with no chopping, and you can only shoot 9BPS, you will probably be more effective than someone who shoots 13BPS but chops… no matter WHAT marker you both are using.

So, if you use the same criteria for each marker, the Automag still comes up on top. And that is taking an Electric Frame marker against a Manual… directly. Some people need to really think about the kinds of claims they make, and whether they will actually hold up when all the chest puffing and misconceptions are put aside.

Now, as for whether the Spyder is a BAD marker… it most definitely is NOT. For the average person, it will be as much marker as they will probably ever need. If well maintained, and proper care is given, it is a fine marker that will serve the owner very well. It is not however, in the same bracket as Cockers, Angels, and AutoMags (there are others in this bracket as well, but those are the top 3, in my opinion).

It all depends on what you need and WANT out of your marker. And Spyders are a very cost effective way to own a marker that will allow you to compete with the higher end markers on the market. But some people confuse being able to compete with, with being as good as or better than. They are quite different. What is “better”, Cubic Zirconium or a Diamond? (No matter how nice of a setting you put it in.)

Simply put, I never bash Spyders, they play very well (if in the right hands, but that applies to ALL markers)… but they are NOT the same quality as Automags. So in my book, they are not “better”. And we have both an AutoMag and a Spyder in our household.

(Added: Good post Temo)

[Patron God of Pirates]

Spyders cannot cycle 40 times per second without shootdown, even with a top of the line reg, and expansion chamber, they can barely do 9 without shootdown.

This is very easy to test. Set the spyder E-Frame to 10 BPS. Make sure you do this on a day with very little wind. Aim straight, and hold the gun very steady. Fire, and watch as each ball after the first falls far closer to you. The first ball had plenty of time to recharge, each proceeding ball had only a 10th of a second, not enough time for spyders.

A couple of friends and I played a little 3 man, every man for himself yesterday. My fiend with the full auto Spyder (we allow it) unloaded on me from about 15 ft. The first ball broke on my chest and the next five bounced off without even welting me. That is what led to us testing the shootdown.

Interesting side note though, I'm the guy with the tricked out RT Pro, he's the guy with the tricked out Spyder, I lost. I guess they are good enough.

[pip_999]

BLOWBACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ityl]

I've had 2 spyders in my house, and a clone. Also my cousin had one. While they are good for beginners they are not meant to last long. Every one started to have problems after around 1.5-2 cases. Even with putting in new springs it didn't solve the problems. They are made poorly, and it's a very poor design. The design involves a lot of wear and abuse. They are purposely sent from the factory at over 300 fps because a lot of people don't go to real fields and don't have a chrono. So when they shoot the gun and it goes farther than everyone elses, people want them. This is why when you go to a real field the spring must be cut. All of mine have.

When I had my clone, it was on it's was out. The gun just did not want to work, new springs, still didn't, orings...nope. When I tried my friends mag I couldn't believe how nice it shot. I was amazed and had to have one. I ordered it less than a week later. I mag has much better accuracy than a spyder, even having one with a reg, a mag shoots faster in the right hands, a mag is smaller, a mag is built better. The only thing that a spyder holds an advantage in is price.

There should always be a spyder, to get people into the sport. But comparing a spyder to a mag is like comparing a classic mag to an angel, it's just not fair.

PS - Unless spyders have changed in the last year, they do have an absurdly amount of blowback.

[magsRus]

why are you talking to kids that play with spyders?

j/k

[Ultimator]

Originally posted by Ityl
PS - Unless spyders have changed in the last year, they do have an absurdly amount of blowback. I was talking about the way the bolt operates, but yes, my brother's Xtra is hilarious to look at the blow back. Put about 4 balls into the hopper and keep it open. When you shoot the last ball pops all the way up and goes back down into the hole.

Same with black draguns. INSANE blowback. The funny thing about blck draguns is that it is $30 worth of parts selling for $199. :rolleyes:

[soccerdude1008]

blowback is not an argument. mags have it just as bad as spyders do. though one of my friends has a video of his xtra sucking a tissue paper in the feed tube, instead of blowing it out.

[FactsOfLife]

Originally posted by liigod
i say go for the spyder, better bang for the buck.


I got a dollar says you're the kind of guy that won't buy snap-on tools because they cost more.

better bang for the buck? how much is it worth when it's worn out from being poor materials/design?

please, I have a classic that's in better shape than most spyders are out of the box...

[HoppysMag]

Guys!! GUY!! hes not sayin spyders are better than mags. hes saying they deserve credit... which they do. they have brought in a lot of people with a low cost relitivly good quality gun( compared to others, and brass eagle, at 80$)
Althought i hate how they change the collor and call it a diffrent gun, but overall i will give them credit...

[TransMan]

mags dont have near as much blowback as spyders i had a TL+ i put just an elbow on it and a couple of balls first shot all the balls poped out onto the ground my mag doesnt even make them move and they are both power feeds

[V-Viper]

Wow some of you are as bad as 'cocker owners bashing mags.:D

[Gitaroo Man]

All they are saying is that Spyders aren't THAT bad, they are good beginner guns as most of you have said. We are just saying Mags are better, which they are. :D

[Carpecerevisi]

Here we go

Spyders=good guns, low cost
Mags=great guns, moderate-high cost
Cockers=crap-incredible guns, low-extremely high cost

I like all three guns, and a huge amount of their variants.

Spyders are all around good guns...Ive shot just about every variant of them, with no complaints other than the crap triggers. Ive shot quite a few mags now, and I havent come across one I disliked, although the price can get high at times. Ive shot probably at least 30 different cockers, rangings from stock 96's up to raced LOE Freeflows, and they can suck, but another model can kick arse. But in all good faith, my ACI hornet can own all! Tehehe...

PS-This crap about spyders breaking is just that...crap. My friend has run near 80 cases of paint thru his e-99 without a single problem, and I matched that with my old spyder compact a. The problem with your "breaking spyders" is MAINTENANCE! CLEAN AND OIL THE FRIGGIN THING!

$0.02 deposited. Have a nice day :)

[obsolete898]

Holy crap, back from the dead much. I was reading it like it was new, then I saw my old posts.