New paint manufacturing idea

[infinitymag]

Since the seam is known to cause an indifference in the airflow around a paintball in flight, why isn't a new manufacturing process developed to replace the age old current one and make them totally seamless?

I believe this could be achieved by using a gyroscopic mold. The two halves of the mold could be pressed together, and then the shell of a paintball could be injected in liquid form. Next, the mold would be spun on a vertical and horizontal axis simultaneously, this would create a shell with equall thickness throughout. Once the shell was semi-solid, the fill of the paintball would be injected through the semi-solid shell. The mold would be spun again the seal the hole in the shell. After the shell is sealed, the two halves of the mold would open, dropping the paintball to be dryed and cured in the conventional manner.

I actually have a plan on how this could be achieved, if anyone wants to know

-infinitymag

[ShinyGuy]

Sounds plausable.... But it also sounds slower than the current method of making paint and it sounds like the machinery for the 2-axis spin would be more complex and less general purpose that the current equipment. Both these things are likely to drive the cost way up. But if you can find a way to keep the costs low it sounds like a great way of doing it. This sounds very similar to the way rubber balls are made (the red kind you played with in elementery school). They still have a mold line. You would have to have a very precise mate on the mold halves. That's still doable but molds of that level of precicion are much more expensive.

[Iakovos]

Well check the posting on Automags - Tech Forum on the 06 -06-2002 "Spining Paintballs (boring and a bit technical) - mainly adressed to AGD "

Iakovos

[AGD]

NEWS FLASH!!! Perfectly round balls do NOT fly any better than ones with seams. Spent a fortune to find that out, don' try it at home. Spheres suck at airodynamics.

AGD

[Iakovos]

I am not talking about perfectly round balls. I am talking about balls that can spin as a whole and not just the out side (obviously you didn 't read the posting).

The experiment wasn 't at home, it was done in the University College London, Civil and Environmental Engineering Laboratories! We have a wind tunel to fit a Ford Blazer, at our disposal so don 't lecture me about the aerodynamics of a sphere, as unless you guys find another feeding system, a shepe is all we got!

Iakovos

[ShooterJM]

Originally posted by Iakovos
I am not talking about perfectly round balls. I am talking about balls that can spin as a whole and not just the out side (obviously you didn 't read the posting).



Not a flame but considering TK's reply was to THIS thread and not your own located elsewhere, chances are he was replying to this thread's idea. Not yours. Especially since he specifically noted perfectly round balls and not interior paint "paddles" or "spikes". And there's really no need to be ungracious.

[Iakovos]

Clearly my answer was miss interpreted, I know he is a busy man so thats why he probably did not read the other posting.

Sorry if I sounded hostile, I didn 't mean to. Anyway fluid mechanics is not my primary area os specialization, even though I have to know it as I specialise in structure mechanics.

It is good to see that users are directly involved in the design process of the sport equipment. I think this is a the greatest achievement of any company dealing with consumer goods!

Let me know if I can offer any assistance

Iakovos Petropouleas
Department of Civil & Environmental Engineering
University College London

P.S. Are there any pyrotechnics used in paintball? (like flash-bangs)

[synreal]

Originally posted by Iakovos
P.S. Are there any pyrotechnics used in paintball? (like flash-bangs)

occasionally at scenario games cool burning smoke grenades are used and the occassional aerial signal/lighting flare is seen, but offensive use of any format of pyrotechnic device is strictly frowned upon/banned, if not illegal by state/federal law.

[Vegeta]

I do not see how this would stop the problems of the seam. Since you are using a two part mold there still would be a small seam from where the two parts meet.

[Iakovos]

By making the inside of the ball looking like HIV virus sape inverted (spikes on the inside) we make a ball capable of transfering the outer cell spin (by a rifled barel for examle), on the inside liquid (as said before the proble with spining balls so far is that the insinde doesn' t spin). Thus by having the internal fuild stirred we get a center of gravity in the middle. Thus maximizing accuracy.

As far as the seam is conserned the accuracy will be raised by the ball spining as a whole and the seam will have less effect. But as we made the inside surface spiky we minimized the effect of the seam as well. As the seam creates an internal wall in the ball, the whole volume of the wall causes a shape abnomality. If we make the inside spiky, then only the diference of the wall and the spikes will cause a shape abnormality, as the rest of the wall will value as a line of spikes.

It is really difficult to explain this only with words but I think I 've dine quite well.

Iakovos

P.S. a fellow player sugested a 3D spining mould to eliminate the seam, this is achieved by the six-axis spinning system like the one used in Airplane Combat Simulators, the electronics of this stuff is complicated enough, making it into paintball size will be a trick. We wante to buy one six-axial spinner in UCL for eathquake modeling the cost was 170,000 pounds (we never bought it:( )

[infinitymag]

Iakovos-

I believe your spiked ball theory is great, but I don't think the 2 rotating dies of a conventional encapsulation machine would work though. If you just added spikes to the mold of a paintball it would create them on the inside of the shell but the spikes would be the same thickness as the rest of the shell; they would also be hollow. The paintball would look as if it had holes all over it. Also the tips of the hollow spikes would be drastically weakened since the sheet of gelatin would have to forced in between them via the fill, thus making the ball very brittle.

Perhaps you could use the conventional method, but add a strip of gelatin that runs right between the other two, and add a second fill nozzle (one for each side). That way when the paintball is being formed, the two nozzles fill each side, but the middle dividing gelatin separates each half. This would force the liquid to spin. This is probably a simpler and more efficient way of acheiving a spinning fill.

-or-

You could create a die that makes half a paintball (sealed), and then take two halves and seals them together, this might work aslo.


Maybe these would acheive close to, if not the same effect, as the spikes?

-infinitymag

[ShooterJM]

I agree, the added spikes should help with fill spin, but I'm not sure how this could be used (other then a Z-body or flatline) to an advantage. Is the thought to have a spin chamber or something?

[infinitymag]

If the wall/spikes were there the paintballs would fly relatively straight with or without the spin. That way you wouldn't have to worry if the ball spins or not.

Personally, I think the wall would work better ;). The method could be applied to the existing encapsulators and it would force the entire fill to rotate, whereas the spikes would take time to get the entire fill rotating.

-infinitymag

[Iakovos]

Wait I am preparing a big reply!!!

[infinitymag]

better be good! :D

[Iakovos]

firtly refer to:
Tech Forum on the 06 -06-2002 "Spining Paintballs (boring and a bit technical) - mainly adressed to AGD " it will answer all the ojections and will ilustrate why while -infinitymag's solution is not effective. for any more questions and objections post as I am still online!

Iakovos Petropouleas
Department of Civil & Environmental Engineering
University College London

[ShooterJM]

I guess I was just thinking that spin has to be imparted in a controlled, consistent manner. Otherwise won't it be like a barrel break? ie paintballs coming out of your barrel like hummingbirds on heroin?

[Iakovos]

Lets do this live get on the chat

[infinitymag]

Iakovos-

When you say not effective are you referrring to Tom's statement about the instant loss of rpm's out the barrel?

[xatle]

the inner wall is even easier, just add a 3rd ply of stretched mesh gelitan in between the 2 outer shell plys, only need the one fill nozzle that way

[Iakovos]

Dear all,

Thanks for the responds. They are really constructive, but I can 't debate on my idea anymore. It is an idea that follows the laws of fluid and structure mechanics and should make a difference.

In any other case I would make two large scale models, one resembling a normal paintball and one that expresses my idea and test the in my department's Wind Tunel and then I would be able to tell exactly how and if my idea works. I could also say how much difference does it make.

But unfortunately for the paint ball industry, I have already established an area of research and have a long way to go.

Take care,

Iakovos D. Petropouleas
Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering
University College London

[El Pipi Fantasma]

I have an Idea for the two axis spinner.

Get a pipe

Drill holes large enough for smaller pipe to be inserted

Get two electric motors

extend the bar that spins

put rod through center of small pipes

attach dies to ends of rods

put small pipe through holes

dies meet in middle

weld small pipe to big pipe

make a clip system to hold motor to outside of small pipe

attach large pipe to another motor

power it up

(wiring will be explained in later post after work :D )

[athomas]

How about adding baffles at 90 degrees to each other in each half of the paintball. No matter which direction the paintball wants to rotate, there will be blockage which will force the liquid to also rotate in that direction.

Here is a visual representation.

[hitech]

Originally posted by infinitymag
Since the seam is known to cause an indifference in the airflow around a paintball in flight, why isn't a new manufacturing process developed to replace the age old current one and make them totally seamless?


Because a seamless paintball isn't any more accurate than the current ones. The seam just doesn't cause big enough problems in the grand scheme of paintball flight. However, there is a "seamless" paintball, it's called the perfect circle paintball. :D