Incorporating Lvl10 Technology to Others Markers?

[HyperSnyper]

IMPOSSIBLE.

I remember Tom saying that it would be a matter of time until other companies incorporate (*cough*copy*copy*cough*cough*) Lvl10 technology with their own markers. The more and more I think about it (until my head hurts), I dont think its possible for sheridan based poppet type valves to do it.

Lvl10's variable bolt speed is completely controlled by the length of the bolt pin. Tolerances of the pin allow a LP bolt speed prior to ball contact then goes full steam after ball stack clearance to HP to allow for proper airflow and accomodate higher rates of fire.

Others guns just use set pneumatic rams that operate at only one set pressure. They cannot increase pressure progressively as the bolt travels farther down the breech/barrel.

Im in no way a WDP or WGP spy. Rice or Orr did not send me down here to get answers. Im simply a Hawaii college student trying to get rid of an itch in my brain. My only guess is that pneumatic ram technology will advance to give the same "variable-speed" effect as Lvl10.

Or maybe I overlooked the other companies advances, and some do have technology like this.

hmmm...

Your $0.02 guys (and gals)?

-Hyper

[Schnitzel]

i dont think anybody would accuse you of spying...this is all on the 'net, so practically anybody can see it for themselves.

[WhoDaresPlay]

My Angels work just flawlessly as is...

[rolo2169]

Originally posted by WhoDaresPlay
My Angels work just flawlessly as is...

until the battery dies

[RaV3n_Pa1ntba||]

That would be if you were stupid enough not to charge it.

No level 10 mods needed for my angel.

:D

Hey but isnt mags chopping just a myth ;)

[AzrealDarkmoonZ]

Actually Have Blue has already shown how this could be used in any marker with a Ram which is 90% of top end markers anyways. Also he researched and theorized this...months ago. He posted his drawins somewhere here =).

Az

[BlackVCG]

That's great that your Angels work just fine. It's not what was being discussed. If someone says Angels don't have a problem breaking/chopping paint, think again. It happens and as much as they want to deny it, it's still a problem.

I can't see it being done on any blowback style marker, because bolt speed is part of the hammer spring tension. As for other electro guns, it would be possible, but the way it is implemented would be completely different from the Mag design. I should only think the concept will be the same.

[AGD]

It is possible on ram style markers. HaveBlue did post a drawing in Deep Blue.

AGD

[FactsOfLife]

Originally posted by rolo2169


until the battery dies

he he heeeeeeee:p

[Top Secret]

Would be fairly easy. Instead of the same pressure going both ways into an AC ram(or any other 4-way controlled gun), the forward motion of the ram would have less pressure than the backwards motion. My idea would probably require some duel LPR setup and a 5-way(the duel LPRs in, then the 2 out + exhast vent), but I'm sure the engineering types could figure something out that is simpler.

[nutz]

Pinching paint is in almost every gun now... guns that supposedly can pinch are listed below

Autococker
Impulse
Matrix
Shocker
Excal
Timmys (pretty sure)
Bushies (i think vapor mod does it)

please correct me if i am wrong

[RT_Luver]

well, the design couldn't be TOTALLY copied and used in other guns. but the idea of it can be.

[nutz]

true because mags are the only blow forward gun i think

[paintbattler]

yea they prob will copy him and use it..PATENT it Tom

[Butterfingers]

Originally posted by nutz
Pinching paint is in almost every gun now... guns that supposedly can pinch are listed below

Autococker
Impulse
Matrix
Shocker
Excal
Timmys (pretty sure)
Bushies (i think vapor mod does it)

please correct me if i am wrong


Autococker- NOPE ONLY the freeflow and a few custom cockers. The others can and will chop paint.

Impulse- NOPE the impulse can and will chop paint

Matrix- Only with the trinity mod.

Shocker- Sometimes

Excal- Sometimes

Timmys- Only because they have an ACE. If it were disabled it would chop paint.

Bushies (i think vapor mod does it)

[liigod]

Originally posted by WhoDaresPlay
My Angels work just flawlessly as is...


hahahahaha suuuree....

[nutz]

Originally posted by Butterfingers



Autococker- NOPE ONLY the freeflow and a few custom cockers. The others can and will chop paint.

Impulse- NOPE the impulse can and will chop paint

Matrix- Only with the trinity mod.

Shocker- Sometimes

Excal- Sometimes

Timmys- Only because they have an ACE. If it were disabled it would chop paint.

Bushies (i think vapor mod does it)

I gotta argue with this. First, alot of cockers can do it if timed correctly. My friend is amazing at timing them and has a Stock cocker with shocktech pnues and a superfly bolt and it pinches paint. The pressure the bolt moves at is only slightly behind the Free Flows

The Impulse i believe can pinch with the new lpr mod. Not many people have heard of it but it has kind of the same effects of the trinity.

The Timmy also has an lpr mod avalible to it

I know all of these guns take some work and money to make pinch paint but bottom line is that they can do it

[Rancid1845]

I gotta argue with this. First, alot of cockers can do it if timed correctly. My friend is amazing at timing them and has a Stock cocker with shocktech pnues and a superfly bolt and it pinches paint. The pressure the bolt moves at is only slightly behind the Free Flows The Impulse i believe can pinch with the new lpr mod. Not many people have heard of it but it has kind of the same effects of the trinity.

The Timmy also has an lpr mod avalible to it

I know all of these guns take some work and money to make pinch paint but bottom line is that they can do it



Your right with a lot of cockers can do this....but its even easier then you think. you need about 55$ and a simple mind. 1) buy low pressure spring kit, 2) buy adjutable pneumatic reg 3) install lightest main spring and reg, then adjust....and u will never chop again. ..the impy and timmy both have mods as you stated....much like the Matrix mod...(unknown fact but the mod was first made for the Tribal marker)

Nowadays its not so expensive to get ur gun shooting without ball chops.....have have 2 angels and i know for a fact that when they come out of tune they chop. But while in tune they will never chop. (thank god i live near Impact paintball)

just my .02
by the way....level 10 mod is amazing...makes me wish i had never sold my old micro emag =(

['Mag]

I've actually seen Spyder's pinch a ball on 3 separate ocasions with 2 different guns. It's just that the hammer spring isn't quite strong enough to chop paint on it's own if the ball is hit directly in the center. The bolt is completely stopped by the ball, before the valve is opened, thus there is no ball breakage. This probably is some sort of mistiming, I don't really know. Maybe they are set up to open the valve a little later now, so there is less blowback? When this happens the whole gun just stops working and locks up. It's easily fixed by recocking the bolt.
This is most likely just some freak occurance, and I know that Spyder's can be total paint blenders if you can get them shooting fast, but I just wanted to let you know it can happen.
I was wondering if some sort of double valve could be implemented into a Spyder to push the bolt back if it hits a ball. I was thinking of a small initial valve that will only open if the bolt pauses in the correct spot for a short time. Once it opens this valve air would only go back, to push back hammer. Not up into the bolt, shooting a paintball.
If there is no paint to slow the bolt, it would go through to the normal valve and fire the gun, and then recock. This would theoretically "increase accuracy and range" by shooting more like a closed bolt (air is not released until the bolt is all the was forward). It would probably slow down cycle rates and possibly need higher operating pressures (possibly not if using lighter anti-chop springs).

What do you smart people think of this type of idea? Would it have any chance of working, or is there some design flaw I have neglected to realize? I won't feel hurt if it's the stupidest idea you've ever heard, becuase I just thought is up as I typed it :)

[steveg]

The principle of lvl-10 has existed for years in air and
hydraulic cylinders. (to control end if stroke speed)
they are called cushioned cylinders.
The cushion has two diameters on the piston.
Applied to paintball markers it is a new idea, but it's
been around industry for years, Tom probably has dozens
of cushioned aircylinders around his factory.

[Patron God of Pirates]

Whether or not other Markers can pinch paint is not the issue. LV.10 isn't just some low pressure mod to turn a mag into a Shocker. Lv.10 does it without sacrificing ROF.

The only other way to do that is with ACE, which means going electro.

Other marker owners can downplay Lv.10 all they want. In essence, Tom just pimped slapped the rest of the industry and reminded them who their Daddy is.

Now they are all back where they started, trying to keep up with AGD. It'll be interesting to see what wing dings and doo dads are released to imitate Lv.10.

I can't wait for the guys at X-Fire to tell me it's all hype.

[FutureMagOwner]

yeah my cocker pinches alot when i do stupid stuff and all it has is a new trigger and a freak(:D) the funny thing is when that happened one time i shot the ball out and it still didnt break even when i hit a target from 3 ft away(i was using diablo midnights of all things:rolleyes: )


i only chopped once and that was because i kept shooting way too fast for my hopper(12vt) and i managed to pinch the same ball 8 times and i finally broke(once again midnights and they were pink, i have bad luck with pink)

[Krazy Ivan]

Originally posted by Patron God of Pirates
Other marker owners can downplay Lv.10 all they want. In essence, Tom just pimped slapped the rest of the industry and reminded them who their Daddy is...

...I can't wait for the guys at X-Fire to tell me it's all hype.


Lol, Tom is a Mac Daddy. He be smackin' everyone in the paintball industry around.

I also have to agree. I live in southern mass though so I have the Auburn X-fire store near me. I never go there, hate the place. No matter how long you've played, how much you know, or what your equipment is, they will talk to you like your 5 and tell you to buy a tippman or a 'cocker. Every time I've gone there it's been, sell that 'mag if you can, and buy a tippman, or better yet a 'cocker because it (has elves inside to make sure it) shoots farther and more accurate.

God I hate that store and the bald headed prick that runs it.

Sorry had to vent.

[mykroft]

On a cocker, you need a large diameter ram and an adjustable Pneumatics reg, otherwise you sacrifice ROF. You do not need a high-flow valve or LP springs (Which improve efficiency, not chopping). STO Ram+ Rock or Tickler does this adequately with some fiddling. Timing isn't the issue, LPR tuning is.

A Matrix with Red Bolt Kit and Trinity already does this, no further mods needed.

Excalibur: Does this when setup according to AKALMP's specs.

Timmy: No frikkin way with current parts availability, theoretically acheivable (Timmy is really modified bushmaster internals in a modified spyder body).

Impulse: Yes with LPR Reg Mod and tuning, may require some valve work.

Bushmaster: yes with tuned LPR or external LPR mod; and vapor mods (LP Springs and high-flow valve).

Shocker: Depends on Bolt & Tuning.

ICD is the big winner as they also sell a blow-forward (Desert Fox?) which the Level 10 could be adapted for.

[Kevmaster]

just thought i would add two to the list of guns that pinch. my teammates angels(both 98s) do not chop 4/5 times, they pinch. my rainmaker is in the same catagory, but it never chops(my teammates rainny has gone 14,000+ balls w/o a chop--now, barrel breaks have happened).

for guns with a ram being used, and therefore an LPR, it is VERY easy to configure the gun to not chop. however, for guns without LPRs(mags, blowbacks--spyder/tippmann/stingray) it is very tough