Not to be offensive towards AGD

[Vil3]

Tom,
Personally i think next time you release something as big as an electronic gun that is a huge step for your company, you should have fixed and went over all the problems before the release. I bought the e-mag after my rt having faith that all the chopping problems would have dissapeared,but they did not, they became worse. After that i bought an angel, which im perfectly fine with because i barely ever chop. But personally i dont enjoy having to spend another 1g on another gun, after buying yours. Next time anything big like this happens i think u should go over all the possible problems and come out with all the upgrades to make the gun better before hand and than include it with the purchase of the gun... eg (Level 10, Superbolts, SUperbolt II's ETC. This is not meant to be a flame, but just an opinion about how u should have released your e-mag, i know myself in my store there were atleast 5-10 peopl that bought emags, sold them and went over to an angel because of the chopping problem.

[Mossman]

If you feed your emag properly it will serve you well......

This is the place to be to learn tricks about sanding down the edge of your bolt and stuff like that, and what loaders are appropriate...

[TheBigRaguPB4L]

Not to be a flame but in response, what chopping problem? As long as you have the gun setup properly, it won't chop. I have 4 mags and not a single one of them chop. I've gone up to 12bps and no chops. If you're still chopping on your emag, it's a feeding issue. If you don't set up any mag correctly, or for that matter any gun, it will chop. Don't blame a company because you don't have a properly setup gun and it won't work properly. Take the time and figure it out, it won't chop.

[Butterfingers]

I never had any chopping problems with my e-mag or any of my mags for that matter. And no I am not in denial.

I can honestly tell you under keen and strict scientific unbiased observation that on average during real play, (not futzing around trying to make my emagnum feed 26 bps.) I have had 1/6000 chops in my e-mag.

Chopping is not a problem for me nor was it for other people.

Did you follow my suggestion and find yourself a diffrent barrel? Because the barrel IS the breach in an automag and IMHO 2/5 smart parts barrels infect mags with chopperitis.

[Vil3]

figures of course its my fault... Ok AGD actually said themselves their guns chop more than others and thats why they designed the Level 10, which hopefully will eliminate almost all of it. It was never barrel problems it was strictly feeding problems. I had a right powerfeed with a HALO. I limit it to 13 bps which i cant shoot and it would chop, a HALO can clearly do 13. So either both mags i had were bad which is very unlikely or there are chopping problems. All im telling AGD is next time they realease something they should include all the anti-chop upgrades, not only would they get a better rep, but they would sell more. EVeryone in my store dislikes mags cuz they chop, i was the one who kept mentioning all these things like the warp etc etc that AGD made to stop the chopping. Still it did, everyone gave up on my comments, and eventually i did and got an angel like everyone else does, because i wanted electro and no chopping.

[govnamac]

The only time I ever chopped with my emag was when I had a bad box of Team Colors, but in all fairness that paint turned into soup in every gun I tried it in. Before that day, and ever since, I haven't chopped any paint with my emag.

[Butterfingers]

I can only speak from experience and I have experienced few if any problems.

Of the problems I have experenced it is a barrel problem. The freak I bought for my e-mag was the biggest POS EVER I was breaking maybe 1 in every 50 balls. I now use random barrels of diffrent bore sizes and I DO NOT have a problem.

I work for a paintball supplier I think with all the parts new and used that I come in contact with I have enough expereince to judge what works and what dosent.

[paintbattler]

i would like to see you make a gun.. man, some ppl dont get it...

[cphilip]

Name me one marker that has not been put out that wasn't later adjusted after field experience to make it better.

NONE!

And year after year improvements are made to all of them. Far less have had to be made to the Mags than their competitors. Your statement is full of ignorance realy. Hate to have to spank you over it but hey! you started it.


No one at AGD ever said Mags chopped "more" than anyone elses markers as you imply. They admit they "can" chop. And sometimes "do" chop. To say any maker will not is a lie. Without antichop eyes and such. Bout those have thier own problems too. We know they "can" chop but often folks report they do not. You are adding in some words. You seem to have imagined these.

What they said is they have a "reputation" for it (valid or not) and they want to be to a point where they DO NOT chop. To dispell that rumor and to give us a better product than anyone else can. Which will put them in a postion no one else can say they meet without electronic eyes that are prone to their own problems and lag times.

Read carefully and comprehend before you come off like an idiot.

[Patron God of Pirates]

Vil3,

You act as if the technology was out thee an AGD just decided not to use it. Like all the R&D in paintball has been done and it is just a matter of deciding what to include in new packages.

Lv.10 (timed air release to create a non-chopping, gear switching bolt) is a breakthrough upgrade for the paintball industry. Breakthrough means "New". It's not as if they had the option of putting Lv.10 in the E-Mag when it was released. Mags now have both high pressure recharge and a low impact bolt. They are the only gun that does.

The Warp was not invented just to stop chopping problems. You act as if they left the "chopping problems" in the gun just to sell you a warp.

AGD was also clear about the fact that their ACE system had not yet been developed, so you knew the gun had no ACE when you bought it. They where also clear on the fact that it would be coming and there is even a place in the gun already milled out for it.

They could not have included these things, because they did not exist. If you wanted them to wait until they where ready, you'd be waiting until, well..... Now.

[wyn1370]

I love watching you guys jump all over someone who says their mag chops. Given he could have put it better. But just so you know, I have also had many problems with my mag throughout the years. Went through so many upgrades that I now can put my old mini back together and have a fully functional retro mini at the same time. I do have faith that the mag will become great (yep I ordered my own lvl 10), but I don't think it's quite there yet. I've been shooting my intimidator for about a year now and have only played with my retro once. And go figure the one time I get out the mag, it chopped like usual. I've spent many hours on these boards (as you all well know), but just can't seem to get my mags to go an entire day of play with out chopping.
Ok, I'm done, end of rant.
Crossing fingers wishing that lvl 10 will solve my problems (unlike nitro, retro valve, revy, or warp).

[Vil3]

My statement is not ignorant at all. I am just saying That AGD SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT about some of the problems before realeasing it, because they know its going to shoot even faster than a normal mag because it is electro and thye know there guns had/or use to have problems chopping.

[cphilip]

NO one is jumping on him for the chopping situation. I was jumping on him for his total mistatements of the facts.

And I will remaind you that your single situation is hardly a scientific valid sample group either. Fact is Some do! Some do not! Only reason I know is my two do not and I am accepting on faith yours does. If I counted all the cocker owners out there that choped and concluded cockers all chop I would be just as wrong and he is. I am not going to do that. I've seen em do both. State the facts. So thats the point here Wyn. You seem to want to make it a slightly different one.

[cphilip]

well thats odd because my emag has not chopped yet...

[cphilip]

Originally posted by Vil3
My statement is not ignorant at all. I am just saying That AGD SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT about some of the problems before realeasing it, because they know its going to shoot even faster than a normal mag because it is electro and thye know there guns had/or use to have problems chopping.


I guess you need to re-read your statement. You said far more than that.

[Patron God of Pirates]

Originally posted by wyn1370
I love watching you guys jump all over someone who says their mag chops. Given he could have put it better. But just so you know, I have also had many problems with my mag throughout the years.

It seems as though some people have problems and some don't. My RTP/Warp/12vRev will chop if I get ridiculous on the trigger, but it has yet to chop a ball in game.

I think the way it is worded is exactly the issue. As if AGD somehow mislead its customers by not making the E-Mag Chop proof.

[wyn1370]

Originally posted by cphilip
NO one is jumping on him for the chopping situation. I was jumping on him for his total mistatements of the facts.

And I will remaind you that your single situation is hardly a scientific valid sample group either. Fact is Some do! Some do not! Only reason I know is my two do not and I am accepting on faith yours does. If I counted all the cocker owners out there that choped and concluded cockers all chop I would be just as wrong and he is. I am not going to do that. I've seen em do both. State the facts. So thats the point here Wyn. You seem to want to make it a slightly different one.
sorry uncle phil,
I'm just trying to point out that there are cases where mags do chop. My case being one. I like to think of myself as a somewhat regular around here. And as a regular try to bring about a little bit of constructive skepticism.

[Creative Mayhem]

I know what you are saying about planning and debugging before release. Don't think this as a flame, when these products were first conceived, they were on the drawing board for a long time. All the while, the kinks were being worked out. No one is perfect, no one can predict the future, and no one can foresee all possible problems. If you have some sort of crystal ball, your are more than welcome to use it, but don't forget to share with the rest of us.:D

BTW I have owned a minimag for 9+ yrs, and I recall only chopping 30-40 balls over that time. Think about it, 9yrs and only 30-40 chops? Go ahead, tell me that my mag is a "blender".
Cockers chop - the revise to fix it
Angels(without COPS) chop - they revise to fix it
Bushies/Impulses chop - they revise to fix it
and so on...

My point is that all manufacturers TRY to fix these things prior to release, but there is ALWAYS room for improvement.

[MrAirgunRT]

I rarely chop in my RT, one day all I did was break balls.. I could not figure out why.. So I sat out a couple games looking through my gun, I had a broken nubbin. That was the only time I had problems breaking balls. I have went through cases and cases without breaking and I don't see how people really get that mags are blenders. I have a long nose foamie bolt also. I am getting an E-Mag very shortly and from personal experience, even without the foamie bolt, they don't chop either. I had a 3 man tournament not that long ago, my teammates had E-Mags, and I had my RT. ALTOGETHER we broke 1 ball down the barrel. I will personally never leave AGD because they are GREAT guns, no matter what anyone tells me about them. yes I may buy a Cocker or an Angel, use it some, but mags are my main type of guns.

[wyn1370]

Originally posted by Creative Mayhem
BTW I have owned a minimag for 9+ yrs, and I recall only chopping 30-40 balls over that time. Think about it, 9yrs and only 30-40 chops? Go ahead, tell me that my mag is a "blender".

I've had mine for something like 11 or 12 years. All the time I figured it was usual to get chops. Then I found AO and come to find other people don't have these problems. After a year on here and many upgrades (all agd approved no aftermarket internals), no progress. The only reason I still own the thing is because I've sunk so much money into it.

[Army]

Umm..You've had a Minimag for nearly 12 years?

[wyn1370]

Originally posted by Army
Umm..You've had a Minimag for nearly 12 years?
nope, forgot I got it in 94 not 90, sorry.

[cphilip]

Originally posted by wyn1370

sorry uncle phil,
I'm just trying to point out that there are cases where mags do chop. My case being one. I like to think of myself as a somewhat regular around here. And as a regular try to bring about a little bit of constructive skepticism.


Exactly Wyn! Which is why I immediately believed you did have one that chopped more so than is normal! You sir have credibiltiy with me and I trust you are telling the truth.

But the author of this thread lost some of his with me a while back and I can show you some stuff. I would rather not get into it but will if I must. Note: he admits chopping with even his Angel with Antichop eye too. Can be done...if you do not know what your doing setting them up. I sure do not either. So do all Angels chop? Hevens no. Thats the point.

Your situation is different and I trust there most certainly is something wrong with yours. But I think something abnormaly wrong not inherent in the overall design. Perhaps a manufacturing flaw.

[cphilip]

Originally posted by Patron God of Pirates
I think the way it is worded is exactly the issue. As if AGD somehow mislead its customers by not making the E-Mag Chop proof.

I think you are on to the point now! Good job summing it up!

[wyn1370]

Ah, so there is past hostility. Now it makes sense. I just felt that he maybe misworded his post a little and was getting way too much flack for it. Was just trying to take some heat off the poor kid.
To the pages of yesterday with this thread. I'm done.

[cphilip]

ya a little. I'll tell you some day...And you'll understand why I jump to the conclusion that the misswording may be intentional...

[lopxtc]

I believe that the Talon is still on its original design :)

Sorry had to break up the tension.


Aaron



Originally posted by cphilip
Name me one marker that has not been put out that wasn't later adjusted after field experience to make it better.

NONE!