B&W sticker rule??

[RT_Luver]

WHY?? I mean, what is its purpose rather then to take away from the ability to have good stickers on your hopper and etc.. and what tournies does this rule apply to?

[dre1919]

Yeah, I've seen this rule before. It's standard for NPPL and PanAm circuit, however I am led to believe the NPPL is kind of lax on enforcing it. The main reason I've heard it's illegal is becuase when you put colored stickers on your loader they can be confused as hits or camoflauge a hit. I think this is kinda childish really. Anytime I've gotten a hopper hit happen to me, it blew all over the hopper and was pretty obvious. Not to mention the fact that if people wouldn't cheat and just play fair, we wouldn't have to worry about it. (The same could be said for if the tourney has good refs, don't worry about it.)

I don't think it's that much of a deal to me, but then again, it's like the rule where you HAVE to have a long sleeve pulled all the way to your wrist. No exceptions! Heaven forbid you might show some wrist skin that might get hit, and you might sue...or you're skin might be slick enough to deflect a hit. This is once again another way to put us all in grey jumpsuits with barcodes and no individuality. As an artist, I HATE censorship, so these topics are kind of rants to me personally. Anyway, I'm with you man...sticker up that hopper!! :cool:

[shadowspar]

Originally posted by RT_Luver
WHY?? I mean, what is its purpose rather then to take away from the ability to have good stickers on your hopper and etc.. .

<p>...because people decided to play the grey a little bit too far. A pic from WARPIG's tournament gallery (Joy Masters 2001) will serve to illustrate:

<p><img src="http://www.warpig.com/paintball/tournament/milleniumseries/2001/joy_masters/gallery/Avalanche01952.JPG">

<p>Hm. Those 397 hopper stickers wouldn't be there to camouflage paintball hits, would they?

[RT pRo AuToMaG]

When the NPPL decides to buy my hoppers, i'll decide not to use colored stickers.

[Army]

Teams were caught greasing their skin, now the rule is long sleeve only.

Teams were making rainbows of their hoppers, now the rule is 2 small B&W stickers only.

Teams were finding out the fill of the day, and wore jerseys to match it, now the rule is subdued colors, no bright yellow, orange, etc.

Teams were using full-auto guns with force fed hoppers, now the rule is gravity fed, semi only.

Teams were wearing multiple layers of clothing to cushion the hit for more bounces, now the rule is two layers only.

The rules are to keep everyone equal on the field, except for skills. Calling the Pan-Am and NPPL "rules nazi's" is childish and ignorant.

[personman]

Originally posted by Army
Teams were caught greasing their skin, now the rule is long sleeve only.

Teams were making rainbows of their hoppers, now the rule is 2 small B&W stickers only.

Teams were finding out the fill of the day, and wore jerseys to match it, now the rule is subdued colors, no bright yellow, orange, etc.

Teams were using full-auto guns with force fed hoppers, now the rule is gravity fed, semi only.

Teams were wearing multiple layers of clothing to cushion the hit for more bounces, now the rule is two layers only.

The rules are to keep everyone equal on the field, except for skills. Calling the Pan-Am and NPPL "rules nazi's" is childish and ignorant.
I only wear one layer when I go paintballing :cool:

[Telefragged]

Greasing your skin? You must be really hard up for a win, or must try really hard to succeed when you cheat, BTW, that guy with the nice 'stickery' loader should be kicked in the head. And look! He even put them on his regulator,high rise, gun body. I now, officially, really want to kick this guy myself!!!

[mykroft]

It's Black, White & red in the NPPL, not sure about the Pan Am. Since no white or red fill is ever used, these are the legit colours.

Glad my stickers are still legal.

[DarkRipper]

When were teams using FA markers with forcefeed hoppers?

:)
DR

[dre1919]

Originally posted by Army
Teams were caught greasing their skin, now the rule is long sleeve only.

Teams were making rainbows of their hoppers, now the rule is 2 small B&W stickers only.

Teams were finding out the fill of the day, and wore jerseys to match it, now the rule is subdued colors, no bright yellow, orange, etc.

Teams were using full-auto guns with force fed hoppers, now the rule is gravity fed, semi only.

Teams were wearing multiple layers of clothing to cushion the hit for more bounces, now the rule is two layers only.

The rules are to keep everyone equal on the field, except for skills. Calling the Pan-Am and NPPL "rules nazi's" is childish and ignorant.

...but I beg to differ. I feel very strongly about this. I was making a sarcastic joke about what I feel is an overbearance in rules when I said they were the "rules nazis." Technically, if they were rules "nazis" they would be trying to practice racial genocide and all the other things that made the Nazi party in Germany the bane of the world. You know what's childish and ignorant? Greasing up your skin so a ball will slide off or wearing a jersey the color of the fills for that day to intentionally cheat. That's some serious bull**** and the players that decide to try that crap should be kicked out of that event. Period. No need to modify the rules and take away rights from honest players who might want a colored sticker on their hopper. Why penalize someone who hasn't done anything wrong? That's very cool of them to try and keep things fair on the field, skills not included, and I understand some standardization is necissary when you talk about a league. I have no problem with this. Where my problem lies is saying something like this: "Well Jimmy, you gotta go get another hopper since yours has four green stickers on it." "Why?" "Becuase some guy you've never met and probably wouldn't like when you did cheated once...ruined it for everyone. Thanks for paying to come to our event though!" Sorry Army, I like ya bro and I'm not trying to flame you...I just feel like you totally took a shot at me on that one.

[mykroft]

DarkRipper: That rule comes from the mid 90's, AT-85's and Tippmann F/A's both have force-fed hoppers and full auto.

[Spaceman613]

Dre, I agree, but they had to make a definite rule thats easy to understand. They can't have some rules interpreted differently by different people.

Bottom line is some morons and rule benders screwed it for all.

[DarkRipper]

Originally posted by mykroft
DarkRipper: That rule comes from the mid 90's, AT-85's and Tippmann F/A's both have force-fed hoppers and full auto.

Hrm. I'm familiar with both markers... they could be considered force feed, I suppose... but what teams were using them? :)

DR

[Polishpickles451]

at all the local tournies i've played in, they ask not to have too many hopper stickers. most people just have thier sponsor stickers, and that works for us, and they are in color.
I can see some people trying to get away with camoflaging hits, and because of them they made this rule, so let's blame the people who'd rather win by trickery then by playing clean, and not call NPPL nazis.

[SlartyBartFast]

Originally posted by dre1919


You know what's childish and ignorant? Greasing up your skin so a ball will slide off or wearing a jersey the color of the fills for that day to intentionally cheat. That's some serious bull**** and the players that decide to try that crap should be kicked out of that event. Period. No need to modify the rules and take away rights from honest players who might want a colored sticker on their hopper. ...
...Where my problem lies is saying something like this: "Well Jimmy, you gotta go get another hopper since yours has four green stickers on it." "Why?" "Becuase some guy you've never met and probably wouldn't like when you did cheated once...ruined it for everyone. Thanks for paying to come to our event though!"

Unfortunately, this is where all rules come from. Every one should be able to use their common sence and drive at reasonable speeds. Would they? Hell no. Remove speed limits from school zones and morons will be going through at 100 mph. Everyone should happily pay their share of taxes, but if the IRS couldn't come after you do you think they would? Gov't would have to shut down in a week.

At a competition, how on Earth are you going to expel someone without a rule to back you up? Professional and top end competition is all about pushing the rules to the limits.

Yes if you use stickers to hide a hit and you get caught cheating for playing on after a hit you should be sent packing. But if the stickers are letting players get away with cheating then you have to ban them.

As for showing up at an event and learning of new rules, I think it would be your own fault for not reading the rules before signing up and paying.

[RT_Luver]

Originally posted by Army


Teams were using full-auto guns with force fed hoppers, now the rule is gravity fed, semi only.



does this mean that warps aren't allowed at tournies?? if so, screw NPPl and Pan-Am

[Polishpickles451]

no way
people use warps all the time in tourneys

[dre1919]

I posted a thread before talking about how I thought that there should be rules that serve a purpose and could become universal in acceptance, but the rules that seem rather unnecissary should be done away with. Apparantly, I and the rest of AO (save for a few like minded individuals) differ on what's actually considered important rules, and that's ok. Hey, it's just my opinion. As I've made clear before, I'm a professional artist and have a true hatred for censorship or banning of personal freedoms just because someone ruined it for the rest of us. Some people don't, and that's cool with me.

I'm not trying to get under anyone's skin, and especially when I make the amusing-to-me-but-not-to-you comment about the NPPL and PanAm being the "rules nazis" then people get all bent out of shape. My mistake. I was under the impression this was a public forum and I was just posting my opinion on a topic that's open for interpretation. I feel as though I try to champion the cause of personal freedoms not being lost in the mix by the powers that be, just because somebody somewhere says it should be so. Once again I am reminded I get left out to dry on that one, and again, that's cool. I have no problem with that. I respect your opinions, hopefully you respect mine...but if not there isn't anything I can do about that.

So, I'll try to limit my posting anything that directly challenges the mainstream powers in paintball since it's obviously not welcome. One thing I don't appreciate it a moderator telling me my post (which reflects my personal opinion and nothing more) is a "childish and ignorant" comment. Excuse me sir, but the forums are open for opinions as long as I don't use foul language and keep the topic to paintball. I find it ironic you chose to denounce my posted OPINION by saying something "childish and ignorant" yourself. Do you work for the NPPL or PanAm? Then as a mod you should set the example and not flame somebody for posting what they think even if you don't like/agree with it.

I'm sorry to everyone reading this if I sound bent out of shape about this, but this really pissed me off. The other day I got onto shartley about getting so worked up over the level 10 video he seemed actually mad about it. Now I see how you can get that way, and for that I offer a full apology sir. Fight the good fight everyone, Peace.

[bofh]

Originally posted by dre1919
[B As I've made clear before, I'm a professional artist and have a true hatred for censorship or banning of personal freedoms just because someone ruined it for the rest of us. Some people don't, and that's cool with me.[/B]

Dre, this isn't solely aimed at you, but since you stuck your neck, you're going to catch it.

One of my biggest pet peeves is when people cry censorship.

No one is stopping you from putting colorfully stickers on your hopper. You just can't play in the NPPL if you do. There are other leagues. You could make your own.

When l tell people that they have to take their shoes off in my house, I am not a "shoe nazi" ( I agree, at certain times, the term "nazi" can be used for humorus effect, if you disagree with me on this, talk to NBC, who brought "soup nazi" to prime time) I am making rules for my house. Just because I have the only pinball machine on the block, does not give anybody a reason to complain.

The NPPL has their house, where their rules apply. You can take your balls (a case of them at least) and play elsewhere.

Censorship, is where you can't, anywhere, put colored stickers on you hoppers. Even if you play in your own backyard.

Your rights don't extend into other people's houses. Don't get confused about that.

[Ice-Child]

Originally posted by Army
The rules are to keep everyone equal on the field, except for skills. Calling the Pan-Am and NPPL "rules nazi's" is childish and ignorant.

They set the rules so that everyone is equal. To try and keep any cheating from entering the game. So the bad thing is that there are people that find ways around the rules. More like just find the loop holes. But for the most part everyone that plays is trying to be honest. For the most part. There are those times you think about the cheap hit (blindshot) and want to wipe it off. I not saying people are cheating, just that with the rules in effect now. It knocks most of it out. I think I can honestly say that when it comes to this sport. I play as fare as I can. If I am in open play and a guy keeps wiping, or not calling himself out. I personally make it a point to take the guy out. But when it comes to tournaments. I play fare and by the rules. Not playing by the rules at a tournament can cost points. That can hurt.

Just try to keep it clean people. Play fare and no one will biotch. Cheaters , I hope they all get caught. Makes it hard for the guys that play by the book.

Some of the NPPL rules are a joke. But "Rules are Rules"

[dansim]

i fyou dont like the nppl go tot the psp instead thats where its at

[Army]

Ah ha...the rules nazis are at it again!
That is a statement, not sarcasm. With a smiley added, It would not have caught my attention.


Yeah, I've seen this rule before. It's standard for NPPL and PanAm circuit, however I am led to believe the NPPL is kind of lax on enforcing it. The main reason I've heard it's illegal is becuase when you put colored stickers on your loader they can be confused as hits or camoflauge a hit. I think this is kinda childish really.
"Led to believe", "I've heard", not actually knowing does nothing for your argument.


Not to mention the fact that if people wouldn't cheat and just play fair, we wouldn't have to worry about it.
That is the sole reason for rules in games and life.


This is once again another way to put us all in grey jumpsuits with barcodes and no individuality.
Now that's just ignorant and childish. That's the same "speech" we hear from the so-called anarchists, that sue the Police when they get beaten by them when they riot. It seems the rules are really handy when their views aren't agreed with.


As an artist, I HATE censorship, so these topics are kind of rants to me personally.
Again, no one can see the sarcasm in that statement, especially when you confirm it's a rant all along.

This is NOT a public forum. This PRIVATE site is solely owned by Tom Kaye/AGD. You are a member, but always a guest here. The administrators of the site, monitor the membership to ensure that they are following those rules they agreed to when they signed on to the forums, AND WILL CENSURE ANY VIOLATION THEY SEE FIT..

If you have a problem with any of the Moderators reading your statements, as they are written, and seeing poor form or rules violations. Then please, contact the Webmaster and voice your concerns. Be sure to include the complete text of your thread, and the Moderators response or censoring.

[dre1919]

You know, the only time I post anything on a topic about something rules related is when I try to show something potentially dangerous to people for the future. I agree, rules are rules, and I have no problem following them. Currently, my team's logo is five colors and I don't have a sticker on my hopper because of that reason should I decide to enter an NPPL event. My problem with this before was that a lot of tournaments and leagues around the country just adopt the NPPL's and PanAm's rules so they don't have to make their own rules up. Fair enough, but suppose more rules that don't seem quite fair ever get adopted by these two governing bodies.

My main idea I was trying to communicate was that if lots of circuits and tourneys adopt a universal set of rules for all paintball tourneys, especially if these are based on or just a copy of the NPPL's, rules like this sticker rule become universal. Now that would mean any event you go to anywhere wouldn't let you have stickers on your hoppers. Suddenly, that freedom is taken away and you're left with playing under it or playing on your own. It's not a big deal, and most people wouldn't care...hell, I really don't care! What I do care about though is us as paintball players having fair and useful rules at events. I just felt like the whole sticker issue was kind of intruding on a personal freedom.

However, when I do go out on a limb and discuss something like this people flame the hell out of me for taking a stand and trying to communicate my message. My mistake, and trust me it won't happen much anymore. I'm done with this subject and thread on this since clearly I'm on my own about it anyway. To the people who read it and took offense, sorry guys...none intended. It would seem I need to be more careful in the choice of my wording when I post something and not forget the smiles. To Army, well...sorry bro, we just have different opinions on things...and that's ok. I respect yours (really), and appreciate you setting me straight about this not being a public forum. I don't have any interest in getting into some long drawn out argument with you and having me hate you and you hate me. It just isn't worth it, so I'll just apologize and hope we can go back to being cool with each other. I would appreciate it if you felt the same way.
:)

[CenterFire]

Well siree, thats the most violent AO post I've read recently...

But on the issue of rules, I've always felt that anyone caught cheating at an event should be banned from the league for a year... I think that would intimidate a lot of those players who occasionally cheat :D If you ran the risk of not playing at a big event for a year, would you guys be less likely to cheat? (Not saying you do or anything ;) )

[Army]

Dre, hate? Nah, ain't gonna happen on a BB among friends.

Your opinions are important and welcome. All we ask is to make your intent clear, and that's what I pointed out.

We be bros still, it takes more than mere words to rile this 'ol soldier:cool: !

[Shaft]

Gray uniforms with barcodes on the back would be a cool team uniform. :D

I got an idear.... cheaters invoke rule creation, right? Get a bunch of rainbow stickers and start sticking them on the opposing teams' hoppers when they're not looking!

Eventually they'll have to make a rule allowing rainbow stickers so nobody can get away with what they've done! :cool: Next thing you know, it's happy sticker frenzy fest at the NPPL corral! Woohoo!!!!

I'm brilliant!

ok... I'm going back under my rock now.

[bofh]

Originally posted by dre1919
I just felt like the whole sticker issue was kind of intruding on a personal freedom.

Dre, I'm with you up till here. You've got it backwards, you're (if you were to have a coloured sticker on your hopper, and when I say "you're" I mean in an everyman sort of way) steping on their freedom to choose how their event is run.

I do agree on the fact that it's a silly rule. :) And that fact that local run tournies will use the NPPL's rules compounds the issue. Perhaps someone can talk to the powers that be in the NPPL and talk them into having some sort of allowence for team stickers, or sponsor stickers, or something that would allow a colored sticker on a hopper.

My biggest beef, actually my only beef, is that it is in no way, shape or form, a Freedom, or Censorship issue.

Censorship (and likewise an abridgement of Freedom) can only be done by a goverment, or by armed force (which it is assumed, that goverments have... if you know of any goverments without a armed force to defend them, please let me know, so I can go and take them over myself. :)

Edit: Also don't stop posting what you think/feel because, Army, I or somebody else disagrees. This is foremost a discussion board. You should express you opinon loudly and often :)

[dre1919]

Originally posted by Army
Dre, hate? Nah, ain't gonna happen on a BB among friends.

Your opinions are important and welcome. All we ask is to make your intent clear, and that's what I pointed out.

We be bros still, it takes more than mere words to rile this 'ol soldier:cool: !

It's cool. Thanks man.:cool:

[dre1919]

Originally posted by bofh

My biggest beef, actually my only beef, is that it is in no way, shape or form, a Freedom, or Censorship issue.

Censorship (and likewise an abridgement of Freedom) can only be done by a goverment, or by armed force (which it is assumed, that goverments have... if you know of any goverments without a armed force to defend them, please let me know, so I can go and take them over myself. :)

What I meant by that was a governing body of a specific paintball tourney series creating some standard rules. Then, these said rules get adapted or copied by other tourney series' across the world and suddenly they are the standard rules by which all paintball tourneys are played. So, if they say no red jerseys (for example) and everyone follows suit, then the guy with a brand new red Smart Parts jersey just got a form of censorship.

Merriam-Webster Dictionary:
To Censor: to examine in order to suppress or delete anything considered objectionable.

If they deem red jerseys objectionable, well there you go. No more red jerseys allowed.:)
That's my main point here, that's all. Just lookin' out for the personal freedoms of us paintball warriors.

{QUOTE]
Edit: Also don't stop posting what you think/feel because, Army, I or somebody else disagrees. This is foremost a discussion board. You should express you opinon loudly and often:) [/QUOTE]

Oh, don't worry. I was just getting tired of bikering back and forth earlier. I'll still speak up and say my mind as fiercely and often about anything as anyone else. Next time, I'll just be a lot more clear on what I wanted to say.:cool: :D

[blnk162]

Originally posted by dansim
i fyou dont like the nppl go tot the psp instead thats where its at

:rolleyes: Where have you been in the past 2 months? the NPPL and PSP are back togther and i can assure you the rules would be the same..

[blnk162]

OK well whoever of you said you have to go out and buy a new hopper because of all the stickers you have on there are either not the brightest or needed SOME way to argue and complain. Take a razor blade, a cloth with water, and a cloth with goo gone and there you go, tadaaaaa a brand new looking hopper.

Yeah i think the hopper rule is dumb but i dont really care and i dont spend countless amount of time on message forums arguing about fighting the system(npp). Just let it be, you cant do anything about it really.

dre1919, does your team even play in the nppl?
Regardless of if people were trying to play the gray area or not, its just easier for the league. Less BS calls will be made and teams wont rant and rave about how they hit some dudes hopper and the ref said it was spray and wiped it off.

About the greasing arms things and hopper rules, your really not in the position to understand what goes on in the NPPL. Professional teams job is paintball. There is ALOT riding on it. You play for fun, these guys really dont anymore, it becomes a job. Very large sums of money, sponsorships, reputations, careers even ride on winning. Wether you think its childish or not they really dont care they have to win, and you cant say "OMG THEY SUCK SO BAD THEY HAVE TO USE STICKERS AND CHEAT AND BLAH BLAH" cuz I guarantee that they are better than you without playing gray

If you have a problem with it and want to do something about it dont play nppl, but truly your 1750 dollars doesnt mean jack to them.....

[RT_Luver]

hmm....I've been readin these posts and apparently this is a bigger issue then I thought..hmmm:eek: :rolleyes:

[Creative Mayhem]

I don't fall under the NPPL but at Skyball I remember a few guys having problems cause of stickers and (this is funny) not having your shirt tucked in. One palyer wasn't allowed to play until he tucked his shirt in. Give me a break, it's ot like he was gonna magically get a hit on his jersey tail, which by the way, was under his buttpack. I understand the need to even the field up and prevent any possible cheating, but some rule are outrageously rediculous. But then again, this is just my .02

[paintbattler]

are u talking about how ppl put stickers on their hopper

[dre1919]

Originally posted by blnk162
OK well whoever of you said you have to go out and buy a new hopper because of all the stickers you have on there are either not the brightest or needed SOME way to argue and complain. Take a razor blade, a cloth with water, and a cloth with goo gone and there you go, tadaaaaa a brand new looking hopper.
[/qoute]

That's true, you could do that. You don't have to go out and buy a new hopper. I just meant that example in the spirit of having to replace something that doesn't fit in their rules, whatever it may be.

Yeah i think the hopper rule is dumb but i dont really care and i dont spend countless amount of time on message forums arguing about fighting the system(npp). Just let it be, you cant do anything about it really.

This is one of the ways negative things that alter peoples' lives get done, by other peoples' indifference. Whether it's in our great sport, or some other avenue totally unrelated (like politics). It's always a dangerous thing to say something like "you can't do anything about it really", or my fav, "who cares?" Incidentally, didn't you just waste some of your time posting here?
;)


dre1919, does your team even play in the nppl?
Regardless of if people were trying to play the gray area or not, its just easier for the league. Less BS calls will be made and teams wont rant and rave about how they hit some dudes hopper and the ref said it was spray and wiped it off.

No, we don't. We're a locally based tournament team from Missouri. However, as I stated before, my problem isn't so much with the NPPL or PanAm, it's other tournaments worldwide just adopting their rules which does effect my team in the events we do go to. I don't believe I made that clear before, and that's my fault. The NPPL and PanAm are great circuits, I just worry about other tournament circuits not exercising their own rules creation and copying theirs'. Kind of a "well, if it's good enough for them.." thing. But, that's just me.:)


About the greasing arms things and hopper rules, your really not in the position to understand what goes on in the NPPL. Professional teams job is paintball. There is ALOT riding on it. You play for fun, these guys really dont anymore, it becomes a job.

Wow, I thought we all played for fun.:p


Wether you think its childish or not they really dont care they have to win, and you cant say "OMG THEY SUCK SO BAD THEY HAVE TO USE STICKERS AND CHEAT AND BLAH BLAH" cuz I guarantee that they are better than you without playing gray

Now how the hell do you know? Just because they're pro doesn't mean they're automatically better than anyone not playing pro. C'mon man, we're all players of various levels and just because we're not on the pro circuit doesn't mean we couldn't be. Maybe some of us could do just fine there but we don't have the time/money to play pro.
:rolleyes:

[qoute]
If you have a problem with it and want to do something about it dont play nppl, but truly your 1750 dollars doesnt mean jack to them.....
Ummm...ok. Hey, once again, just trying to bring to attention of those who care some rules I thought were odd or unnecissary. Not a big deal, but apparantly it is!:D Just on of those things I guess. Hey, thanks for the support Mayhem!:D

[bornl33t]

really , what it all boils down too is... everytime you do something and hope to not get caught, is another rule in the making. So play and quit trying to find loop holes.

I think pretty much everyone here has done something you knew they couldn't call you on and so you did it until the next season when they had to make a rule because of you or your team to keep the game fair. I think it pry started something like " Well it's a shield, the paint isn't on me so I'm not out"- which is why gun hits, clothing hits, even hits on droped stuff will get you out.