Offical LVL10, Reports from the Field Thread

[AGD]

Beta testers,

Report your results here now that we have some units out in the field. We had a first report from Brian123 on Swarm and he said the system rocked in another thread.

AGD

[BlackVCG]

Do not post in this thread unless you're reporting results from testing LVL 10.

Things we'll be looking for:

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

-The type of gun you're using it on

-Efficiency

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

-Any problems you encountered

-Other general comments

[the123]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

It took around 15 minutes to setup.

-The type of gun you're using it on

E-mag #00601

-Efficiency

Seemed to be around the same maybe a little LESS efficient.
(flatline tank pressure guage was wrong)

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

0 chops 0 breaks Nelson Anarchy Paint. Over 6,500 rounds run through the marker on Fri + Sat.

-Any problems you encountered

OCCASIONAL tiny leak down barrel that went away when I 'hit' the side of the mainbody near the bolt.



THIS GUN IS SWEET!!!!!!!!!!

[Scooter/Cootie]

<b>-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly </b>
The guys from Pride that went to the factory to get their lvl 10's installed spent about 3 hours fine tuning everything. This was before Tom had the "tweeners" so we had to go thru about 7 carrier o-rings each to find the right fit. Once we had the parts down, I'm able to install the kit within 5 min.

One thing you will have to keep in mind is that you will need to have your output pressure from your tank set to approx 800psi and you may have to crank your velocity nut up much further than you had it set at using the old internals. I found that since my tank was set at initally 600psi output, it was starving the gun when I rapid fired. Easily fixed.

<b>-The type of gun you're using it on </b>
E-mag w/ Warp + 12volt Revy. 4500psi 68cu Flatline

<b>-Efficiency </b>
I'd have to agree with the123 on the efficiency. It seems that the gun is a little less efficient but this is not very noticable, perhaps a loss of 100 - 200 psi overall.

<b>-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used </b>
I played today at Paintball Sam's scenario game and I had 2 breaks down the barrel, no chops with about 1000rds shot. This was using Diablo Blaze that had a pretty thick shell. It was roughly 3+ bounce paint.

<b>-Any problems you encountered </b>
One of the issues that I had was that when the barrel would flex, (ie. resting your barrel on top of a chrono), I would get a small leak down the barrel. This was fixed by replacing the o-ring in the carrier to another with a tighter fit and replacing the barrel o-rings.

<b>-Other general comments</b>
All in all, I am amazed with the way that the lvl 10 worked today. I managed to place my gun in weird positions that I knew would chop a ball using the old internals (ie. all the way on its side), only now to hear a "pssst" whenever the bolt caught on a ball.

Using an E-mag in combination with a warp and the lvl 10 upgrade is definately going to give any player an advantage over their competition.

[nerobro]

It took me aproxamately 1/2 hour from start to finish to get the level 10 running, and working well.

the level 10 was installed ina 1995 micromag 2, running a PVI maxflow, shredder, and an oldschool lapco barrel.

I didn't get any efficancy numbers...

As for chops... I did manage to get the gun to fire 2 balls at once a time or two due to short stroking... but that's it. not a broken ball in the 500 I shot tonight. Half the paint was paint from blitz... tough paint. The other half was Polar ice that didn't get the last step done to it so it was disgustingly fragile. it would crack from a 4-6' drop.

There has to be a better way to get the o-ring carriers out of the gun. At least in my AIR they stick in there REALLY REALLY well...


Update: I took the micromag to badlandz this weekend (the 14th) And I handed my micromag to a newbie for the day. As if it's a change :-) the only thing that was dirty was the OUTSIDE of the mag. So that puts another 1000 rounds through the level 10. this time chronyed at 290. medium spring too :-)

[the123]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

About 20 minutes.

-The type of gun you're using it on

Automag #CF02704 AGD double trigger, Halo-B on top

-Efficiency

I could get at least 4 pods and a hopper with a 45/4500psi tank. Same as before.

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

0 chops 0 breaks, 1500 balls shot, Nelson Challenger paint

-Any problems you encountered

I short stroked 1 time and had 2 balls come out. No biggie.

-Other general comments

I feel special being on the field without a squeegie.
Less weight to hold me down ;)

[SteveD]

It took about 10-15 minutes to get it installed and running properly in my E-Mag on Saturday. I had to work the booth all day so I didn't get the chance to put it to the test 'til Sunday.

I couldn't comment, yet, on the efficiency but I was throwing tubes of paint in the ice chest to get the paint as brittle as possible and then hammered on it to TRY to pinch some paint. That's hard to do with a Warp but I managed a few with NO ball breaks. This gun just rocks.

Steve D
AGD Lions

[manike]

http://www.uniquehardware.co.uk/server-smilies/cwm/cwm/eek2.gif Wow! I just spent the last three days at AGDE going through some milling stuff and fine tuning the new C&C's (saw the first production intent anno'd one BTW and it looks stunning!)

Anyway some beta test level 10 kits arrived on Monday Morning and I got the first one out of the box (my arms are longer than Johns's and anyway he was slow from having been up until 4.00m running test files on the mill)

John installed it on my old original RT (with vert feed body) and with a stock CF grip frame (I'll put my sprung loaded trigger frame onto it at some point... :D ;) ). It took him about 20-25 minutes because he wouldn't RTFM and because too many cooks were trying to get their hands on the parts :) (John Bonich was over also)

I think he tried 3 different carriers and two bolt springs (used the stock one by mistake to start with) before getting it up and running properly. Ended up with the longest spring and it was shooting at just under 300fps.

No idea on the efficiency because we were low on air. It definitely runs out of power more abruptly though. You don't seem to get as much shootdown when using the gun as it runs out of air. It's all seems ok, and then suddenly you are out of air and don't get any more shots.

So onto the shooting test (s). We were using some very brittle paint which would break first time from waist high. The gun shot it fine when used normally, so the hopper was turned off and I tried to shoot as fast as possible while tilting the gun from 90 degrees on one side over to 90 on the other. It shot several hoppers of the paint without a break. It must have stopped on about 20 balls at least and you hear a little 'pst' sound but it makes little difference to your rhythm when you keep firing. Sometimes when a ball is pinched it would then double load but fire both out cleanly on the next shot. (a small price to pay!)

My Vert feed RT is a very early prototype body and it has a vent hole on the side where you can look into the feed tube and breech. I could hold the gun on it's side, roll a ball half way into the breech and then pull the trigger :) Usually resulting in soup with any paint... not this time. I would pull the trigger 3-4 times resulting in several pinches before the ball would be pulled in and fired straight out without breaking! And this with paint that would break first time when dropped from waist height...

So onto some even more brittle paint... This would break first time from knee height! same test with hopper turned off and tilting the gun on it's side. Again lots of nice 'pst' noises and no chops! We put several hoppers through of this paint until I finally managed to get a chop, It was after pinching probably 20-30 of the balls that I found one fragile enough to break.

So we wondered how some other guns would fair shooting the same paint? Out comes a Sov II and my Spearhead Autococker, both set up to be as gentle on paint as possible. They would both shoot loaded balls fine but when tilting the gun over and purposely causing misfeeds the Autococker got out about 5 shots before chopping a ball. The Sov was shooting it fine but as soon as a ball didn't feed it made one hell of a mess!

When taking the hopper off the Sov some paint fell from about 4 feet onto the grass... and broke! We put the remainder through the RT with quite a few 'pst's but no breaks!!!

Ok, so now we were scouring around for some very brittle paint. All the old crap and rubbish that we could find... and then John put it into the freezer :) A few hours later we took it out to see how brittle it was (it was freezing my fingers). A ball dropped from waist high, broke first time, A ball from knee high broke first time, a ball from 1 foot broke first time and a ball dropped from 6"! broke first time! In fact all balls would break from just over a foot. If it didn't break on the first contact, on the second smaller bounce back up it would... So into the gun it goes and I let lose. The RT is shooting it all fine so we try and force misfeeds. The now familiar 'pst' was heard :) but then we did eventually chop one. I laid the gun on it's side and tried misfeeding balls one at a time, it would stop on 2/3 balls that would otherwise break when being dropped from less than a foot!

You should have seen the grins on our faces! John had to almost restrain me from emptying the rest of his paint store through my RT!

For the next 'scientific test' I sacrificed my finger to science. To get an idea of the bolt force in the different guns. I must admit I was suprised by how much force the RT still had on my finger, it was more than I was expecting but not enough to hurt. And then I put my finger in the Sov II, which had significantly more force than the RT now! My cocker, which will normally stop on Hellfire paint also had significantly more force than the RT. (my cocker is normally comparable to a matrix with trinity mod). WOW!

So anyway I want to check what velocity we are getting, so we take an e-mag with the kit over to the chrono... first shot was 299 and John goes to turn away happy that we were at tourny velocity levels, and I'm like 'no fire some more' second shot was 299... and john goes to turn away before I complain again, he turns back and the third shot is 300fps! I was simply stunned.

We must have shot at least 4 cases through this gun, trying to chop the whole way!

All in all a great day and my RT has a whole new lease of life. Can't wait to put an Iframe on it and start handing it out for others to try. Any Europeans who want can try and find me in Toulouse and you can use it for yourselves!

problems encountered? They wouldn't give me enough kits for all my guns and all my friends that have mags :)

Oh and we also put it to use in conjunction with the eye on an Extreme. This is the ultimate combination in my opinion, no breaks and no 'psts'. Just one long stream of extremely brittle paint... Can't wait to get my gun, some hellfire and go play a tournament!

manike

p.s. the manik-e-magbody got machined on Monday also and boy does it look better in real life than the virtual image. No piccies till it's annodised and finished though :) The body now weighs 5.5oz It started off at 11.25!

Boy was that a long post! Shartley eat your heart out :)

[JanStah]

I got my LX today too! (Thanks Manike!)

I think I'm the first one who's posted who's actually putting it on an old (REALLY OLD) PF Mag instead of an emag/RT/Pro.
Edit: NeroBro put his on a Micromag, but I'm still sure this is the oldest mag so far... (SN: ProMag0271)

I have air & paint to try, but no chrony. Hmmm. That'll have to wait until sunday!

We managed to get the LX mod installed in about 20 mins. We used the 2-stripe o-ring carrier, the biggest mainspring and 2 shims.

Some things we noticed from dry-firing...

1. The trigger pull seems a little harder than before.

2. It seems a little less efficient, although I only had about 1.2k in my dive bottle to test on... enough for maybe 100 or so shots on a 0.9l tank.

3. We still get the odd little hissing leak when there's no pressure left in the tank.

We dont know the velocity 'cause we dont have a chrono (and also 'cause jon forgot to bring some barrels!), but it feels like it kicks the same as before.

We tried the 'Dollar bill' test but it's a little hard with a powerfeed.

We also tried the 'Dangle-ball' test, and it worked flawlessly; didnt break a single ball.

So Far, so good.

More after we try it on-field this sunday.

Jan.

[Troy]

-30 min to install in emag/warp

-1.5 carrier and middle bolt spring

-efficiency seems to be the same

-shot 3/4 of a case of blaze, 0 chops. The paint was not very brittle but I shot the gun gangsta style the whole time. This kind of shooting would have chopped all kinds paint with the old setup.

-I had the same prob with the barrel that Scooter had

-This thing is awesome. I cannot wait to shoot some brittle paint with this thing.

[Timmy63]

30min. install in my e-mag
10min. in my RT

Once you know what you're doing it goes pretty quick.

Efficency- Maybee a little less but nothing to complain about.

Breakage- Nothing in the e-mag after about 1000rnds I was at Sam's on Sunday with Steve and put some blaze on ice for an hour and shot it through my e-mag with a revy on top (no warp) and it still shot fine. I have 500rnds through my RT and since I haven't shot it in a while I short-stroked the crap out of it and still couln't break anything.

I love the Lv10. It is simply unbelievable!!!

[marc]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly
3 hours (including on field to adjust the velocity)

-The type of gun you're using it on
E-mag with warped feed
-Efficiency
estimating less (look in general comments)
-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used
0 chops of 1000
-Any problems you encountered
changing velocity and others (look in general comments)
-Other general comments
When got to the field i realized that i forgot my sear pin, so i invented something that worked. I had to rent a tank (with a broken guage) and when it was filled they filled it differently every time, so i dont know for sure if it is less efficiant, but it felt like it was. I had my power feed missadjusted so i had to push each ball in and many balls got stuck between the breach, BUT NO BREAKS.

__________________
:D

[complicationjack]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

20 minutes total - 1.5 carrier, 2 shims, and the long spring

-The type of gun you're using it on

Minimag

-Efficiency

less

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

0 chops, 0 breaks, marballizer

-Any problems you encountered

No problems, except maybe the fact that you have almost no warning (besides obviously the gauge) when you run out of air...it just stops...

[Bwaites]

Level 10 is SOOOO Cool! Just installed it in my sons Classic Mag. I have a Superbolt in my Emag, so I wanted to hold on to it until I saw how Level 10 worked. Besides I haven't chopped or broke a ball in my Emag since I got my HALO B back.

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly.
45 minutes with an additional 10 to set velocity. Carrier is 1.5 with the longest spring. 2 shims.

-The type of gun you're using it on.
Classic Mag, Dye double trigger grip, Flatline 68/3000, Armson Stealth barrel.

-Efficiency.
Slightly less, I used to get 7-800 balls per fill, got just about 650, but I had some dry shots while setting velocity, so only slightly less.

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used.
Couldn't get it to chop or break paint down the barrel, including turning the Revy off and shooting as fast as I can. (Maybe 7-8 BPS) AllStar Advantage paint.

-Any problems you encountered.
Pay very close attention to the shims when you install the tip. I used the Level 10 for dummies version instructions, and slightly tilted the valve, one shim slid in the way and got bent, this took me a little while to figure out, so I think I can install the next one in 10 minutes, and then set velocity.

-Other general comments

Suggestion, make the shims a little bigger diameter so they can't slide in the way. Include a few more shims of the current size until they can be resized. Just for the BETA versions. The Street versions need to have the bigger diameter versions.

Finally: WOW, Tom you are a genius!!

Input Pressure: 800 PSI

Bill

[Pand0ra]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

Donno, done by AGD-E on my Emag C&C.

-The type of gun you're using it on

Emag Extreme C&C + ACE + LVL10

-Efficiency

Slightly lower, very slighly.

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

0, nada. Test done with very old paint (Tornado), Severe and the latest Zap Chronic. Paints were 3-4 bounces before break, and 0 bounce comming from the freezer for one of the test hehe.

I shot around 2000 balls.
The real test will be Toulouse, of course.

EDIT: Over the 5 cases of paint shot at Toulouse, no shop, even with the battery dead on my revo :) , and that was with the ACE disabled.

-Any problems you encountered

Not the smalest one.
I tend to go with the comment of Manike about the shootdown just before you run out of air. With the mod 10 it seems the marker works perfectly, then just stop firing. That's not a problem of course.

-Other general comments

The kickback I had with my old Emag is gone, as are the shops.
Incredible improvement of the mags!

[Troy]

First practice with LEVEL 10

For the setup see my previous post except i put the longest bolt spring in.

-efficiency-about 800 shots out of a 68 4500

-# of breaks- ZERO (aprox. 1500 rounds blaze paint) I tried to make it chop.

-problems- the bolt stuck on me acouple of times during the first two games. I turned the air off and on and it started working again. Then I ran a little oil through it and didn't have a problem the rest of the day.

-comments- Awesome. I broke alot of paint with the emag before this mod, that seems to be a thing of the past. It is like a completely different gun.

[manike]

At practice today I put my e-cocker aside and used my RT with level 10. Now this gun is set up with a stock single finger Carbon fibre trigger frame and let me state 'that I can no longer shoot single finger trigger frames on mechanical guns' :)

I've been corrupted by double triggers (have been using one since they first came out over 6 years ago!) and electro triggers. So my technique with a mechanical trigger and using just one finger sucked! I managed many short strokes and would normally have been breaking my share of paint.

I didn't break one ball all day! Even when fluffing the trigger there were still no broken balls. Puts an end to short stroking worries!

What makes this doubly amazing is that I was using 2 year old hellfire! yep two years old:) . It's stuff that I have had in my garage and spare room and attic and forgot about, I couldn't use it before because it was just too brittle and made a hell of a mess. Today, apart from the fact that it was sweating and some of it covered in a white powder it shot beautifully! (ask Jan and Jonneh :D hehehe) I shot a case and a bit of it with no problems or issues.

I wasn't using my Halo B either, just a normal rev with low batteries (didn't bother to change them as it was more of a test).

Several of the guys used to shoot RT's and were stunned. I asked one to put his finger in the breech and pulled the trigger, he jumped a mile :) before realising how little force there was. Their comment was 'wish they'd done that years ago'...

ok, a few issues have arrived with my set up though. I find the main tank reg needs to be giving a higher pressure to keep it all running right. I'm feeding it at about 800psi (which my AIR isn't too happy about... can't wait to get my Armageddon tank back from test).

Also to get the velocity I think the gun is now running very close to the relief valve pressure. Sometimes (with both of my RT's that I've had the level 10 in) the gun starts venting out the back of the velocity adjustment screw. By running at a little lower velocity it solves this but not always. Every now and then it starts venting again. I wonder if maybe you could increase the relief blow off point? I don't want to change to a shorter spring, if that means the bolt force is increased... (not sure if that would help this problem anyway?).

Also sometimes I get a slight leak down the powertube, by putting a very slight pressure on the trigger the leak then stops... I'm thinking this means that the little hole on the bolt plunger is very close to the carrier o-ring positions and pulling the trigger pushes the bolt back just slightly (before releasing it) and thus pushes the hole back behind the o-ring... now I'm thinking I could fix this by taking out a shim... only I don't have any shims at all in my RT set up :D

Other than that this does feel like a whole different gun! As Pandora points out the kick is seriously reduced over a normal RT also.

I use a vert feed body and there is way less blowback than the old set up also.

I can't wait for my extreme to be back from the annodisers! I also need to get an inteliframe for my RT, with a blade double trigger my vert feed RT will be perfect the perfect back up (and loaner) to my extreme e-mag! :D

manike

[marc]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly
less that 3 hours (no field adjusting was required)

-The type of gun you're using it on
Emag with warped feed

-Efficiency
unnoticible change

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used
0 breaks or chops out of 2000 paintball i found in my basement that are atleast 6 months old. types include JT, RP Premium, BigBall, RP thermal (what ever the name is, the kind u use in winter), and a few types i couldnt figure out what they were
-Any problems you encountered
one double feeding which broke a few feet from the barrel

[the123]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

15-20 minutes, #2 carrier, stock spring, approx. 800psi

-The type of gun you're using it on

E-mag with Classic Valve #02704 (about 11yrs. old, still had a spring for the PT spacer), #2 carrier and stock spring, Warpfeed w/ dual 9v's in Parallel, Halo Hopper

-Efficiency

Slightly less it seems.

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

Friday: 1300 cheapest Challenge Park Xtreme paint (Blaze I think, if anyone else knows, speak up) 0 and 0
Saturday: 1100 Nelson Challenger 0 and 0
Sunday: 1000 Nelson Nel-Splat 0 and 0, 600 RPS (2 years old, non-dryshell formula, shooting in runaway hybrid mode 16BPS) 0 chops 3 breaks, then used a straight shot, then put 300 nelson challenger 16bps runaway, 0 and 0
Monday: 300 Nelson Challenger 1 chop 0 breaks (another runaway demo for a friend of mine)

-Any problems you encountered

Tiny leak down barrel that goes away when I tap the side of the mainbody with my hand, or when I cycle the marker.
If the N2 tank output pressure is set too low it seems the gun will not shoot. A problem, only if your N2 regulator is inconsistant.

-Other general comments
I never thought my E-mag could go into runaway in Hybrid mode with the CLASSIC Mag valve!
My warp batteries are dying, i've put about 10,000 paintballs through the same batteries. This last test on monday pinched about 10-12 balls before chopping that single ball.
The past 3 weeks, i've shot close to 6 cases of paint, and with only 1 chop and 3 breaks with the Level 10 setup.
:)
Everyone that has this kind of luck with THEIR Level 10 should send AGD a Thankyou card.

[than205]

Originally posted by the123
E-mag with Classic Valve #02704 (about 11yrs. old


For real your using an AIR valve in a E-mag?
I'm just curious, why?

Conversion emags used whatever stock valve you had. thats my guess here...Reminder though...DO NOT POST HERE unless reporting actual install experience! But I will leave this as a reminder. use PM or start a new thread if you want to ask questions to an individual user - cphilip

LOL! nice signature insert!

[Webmaster]

I just got my Level 10 and I didnt have time to FULLY explore its potential - but this is what I found out:

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

About 20-30 min

-The type of gun you're using it on

Mr. Orange - My Emag

-Efficiency

Didn't shoot it enough to reach a conclusion

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

See report below

-Any problems you encountered

none (other than low on air)

-Other general comments

OK - I was very short on time - and low on air. But I took out the parts and got to work. It took about 15-20 min to swap the parts out - partly because I took it real slow as to not screw something up - and partly because I was distracted. I was doing this at my local store (the new warped sports in KC) and was showing of the new bolt etc to anyone who was with in 5 ft of me.

I put it together per Toms "fast start" instructions. Gassed it up - no leaks - no shooting either. Cranked the velociy probably a full turn or two (Tom - what is the operating pressue of the mag now with the level 10? Does this change the optimal length for barrel acceleration?)This resulted in the gun shooting. Took it out back with some free - but crappy "rec" paint. Chronoed 290-300ish. OK - good to go.

The Test!

Took some electrical tape and one of the rec balls. It was 2-3 bounce paint - not real brittle - but average for what you will find on many fields. Used the tape to put a ball in only 1/2 way. HOLY COW - THE BOLT BOUNCES OFF THE BALL! YAY IT WORKS! IT WORKS!!!

I dont know about everyone else - but I had LOW ball breakage in my emag w/warpfeed and pre BE Rev. BUT - I did managed to break ALOT in tournies due to A) not turning on the rev or B) not stopping when the rev was out of paint. No doubts - I would break if I managed to screw up and misfeed my gun.

My "idiot" test I ran was using the warp, emag on 16 bps semi, and turn the rev *off*. I jiggled the gun while fanning the trigger. It sputtered and burped and shot - but it got rid of the hopper with NO breaks!

I then decided to just rip a hopper with some paint at 16bps - out running the rev - but still having fun. Now here - I had about 3 barrel breaks - and the reason was I was LOW on air - i would get a ball stuck 1/2 way in the barrel and the second ball would smack into it. Im sure of this because I slowed down and watched this happen. It wasnt chopping!

I hope to this weekend go out and fine tune it to shoot paint thats so brittle from being frozen - more report to follow!

great job Tom - its a keeper!

[deepcover]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly
45-60 minutes.
-The type of gun you're using it on
RT w/Inteliframe
-Efficiency
Seems similar to before, but when I turn off the flatline, I get two shots, then nothing. No leak, no hiss, no anything. Guess that flatline gauge is really important.
-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used
0-500 RPS stored in my closet for the last few weeks.
-Any problems you encountered
I apperently didnt seat the oring in the carrier correctly, as the fit felt very tight, until I tried to fire. At first it wouldnt, until I cranked the velocity up, and then after four or five shots it started leeking horrendously.
-Other general comments
Rippin'. I would install the ORing, and try all of the carriers to see which two or three are the best. Then, check the markings to see sizes, if one is way off the others, dont consider using it.

[Krazy Ivan]

Originally posted by BlackVCG
Do not post in this thread unless you're reporting results from testing LVL 10.

Things we'll be looking for:

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

-The type of gun you're using it on

-Efficiency

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

-Any problems you encountered

-Other general comments

It took me about 15 minutes to get it up and running. 5-8 of them were trying to figure out what the diff. parts were. (I printed out the instructions but forgot to print the diagram outlining the parts).

I'm using my Minimag (Alice) with a evil reactor valve which does nothing. (Shows it works even with evil aftermarket parts)

For the Efficiency I did see a dropoff a little. It wasn't extremely noticable, but I get my tank topped off after every game.

I shot 1000 rounds of JT Maxim, and 1000 rounds of Inferno, I got zero breaks from chops/barrel

I didn't have any problems, and was overly happy when I thought that I would test it out hardcore, and took off my warp and revvy and finally found a use for that VL200 we get when we buy a new mag. Put that on the top and even though it didn't even come close to keeping up while I fanned the trigger, it didn't chop once! I was also using the Plastic nubbins if that also matters, I didn't double feed as others have.

[HarryM]

Results so far with the LVL10 are outstanding!

Since the team has upgraded 2weeks ago we have gone
through approx. 20cases of various brands of paint
and all types of feed systems from warps to vert.highrise
and there have been no chopping issues what so ever!
Gun types from RT's to Retro's and Emag's

There is aprox.a 10 to 20 percent loss in effeciency, however
the accuracy seems to have improved by at least 10 percent with the new super bolt so its definately an acceptable trade off not to mention NO CHOPPING!

Excellent work AGD!

Harry

[echoes]

Originally posted by BlackVCG
Do not post in this thread unless you're reporting results from testing LVL 10.

Things we'll be looking for:

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

-The type of gun you're using it on

-Efficiency

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

-Any problems you encountered

-Other general comments

It took me about 45 minutes to set it up in my minimag (with AIR valve). It took awhile because I had some issues with the main spring (see below). I followed the "Fast start" instructions, set it up with the 2 carrier, had barrel leaks, so I then switched to the 1.5 carrier and no longer had barrel leaks.

I've only fired it in my backyard a little bit so at this point I can't really comment on efficiency or actual game performance, however I really enjoyed sticking things into the breech and seeing the bolt bounce off. :p

I ran into some problems with velocity. I started with the clipped spring that came with the kit, and eventually switched down to my old bolt spring, which is the shortest one I had available. That was the only spring with which I could get the mag to fire without the regulator venting. Even then, my range of velocity adjustment was limited. What can I do to either A) increase the range of velocity adjustment with that spring, or B) get it to fire with the other springs, and without the regulator venting?

[manike]

The regulator venting has been a slight issue with my gun. But I was using the longest bolt spring and trying to set it as softly as possible while staying right at the velocity limit.

I'm curious as to what carrier everyone is using? Is it worth a seperate thread? (mods if it is please cut this out and start one) if not it would be nice for everyone who hasn't already stated it to do so.

I am using carrier 1.5, I was using 2 but brought it down (and thus tighter) after a slight barrel leak.

manike

[echoes]

After more tuning, I switched to the 2 carrier, and using my old mainspring, got a sufficient range of velocity adjustment that I think should be fine for indoor or outdoor.

For those who haven't yet tested, make sure that you really wear in the powertube o-ring that goes in the carrier.

Manike, I think people can just state in here what setup they used. Again, my setup was the 2 carrier, with my original mainspring.

[Krazy Ivan]

I used the 2 carrier, longest spring, with 900psi pressure, and the closest screwed in reg nut where it wouldn't blow off.

[wes]

Hey guys, I got my level 10 kit on the first of July. Here is the ghetto testing setup:

· Classic Automag- CF63652
· Z-grip
· Standard/classic feed (which ever you like to call it)
· Co2 with smart parts on/off valve
· VL 200
· (Ghetto(if you know what I mean)heh)



Anyway I had just got my tank filled earlier that day, around noon. At about 5 or so the ups man came and brought me my package. (I hate ups they don’t come to my house till 5) I opened it up and took out a bag and inside that bag was a box with 3 springs and a bolt and another bag with some baggy stuff in it. I couldn’t get on the computer because my brother was on. So I waited. When I finally got on I got the instructions and I followed them good.

Some problems that I faced:
· Once I got it set up it took me about 3 guesses to guess which carrier to use.
· When I got it in there, the velocity was too low and I had to jack the velocity up quite a bit. The trigger was pressurized but it wouldn’t shoot.
· When it was finally cycling, I tried to put some paint though it, but the setting was on so light it wouldn’t shoot. It would should like its pinching and it pushed the ball past the nubbin and it wouldn’t work.
· After that I talked with Cphilip, I put in a longer spring and again I had to turn up the velocity some more. Not a big problem. But then when I was dry firing it about 3-4 balls per second it would stop cycling after about 3 shots until I stopped shooting for about 10 seconds. Sounded like shoot down but I don’t really know what shoot down sounds like.
· Phil said to put in the shortest new spring so I did. Every thing sounded okay when I dry fired it but then I went outside to put some paint though it and it kind of sputtered a little and then quit. I started to panic and I took my spyder and screwed on the tank and then it was out of air so then I was relieved
· I am now out of air.




The next day...

Today I got my tank filled. It was fun but it took a long time. When I got home I gassed it up and shot about 10 shots. Air was leaking out of my air fitting so I reteflon-tapped it and its good now. I was about to put my finger in the breah but then I put a pen in and it look like it hurt the pen so I was like “It’s too much” and then I put in the middle spring and it was all good. I shot about 300 shots but I am about to go out and shoot some more. I had 0 chops or breaks. I was using about 4 week old PMI premium. Then I shot my finger and I felt that the foamy was gone so I didn’t have a foamy in there but it still shot about the same.

Here are the questions answered.

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly
about an hour.
-The type of gun you're using it on
Its up there
-Efficiency
It appeared to be less.
-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used
0/0 4 week old PMI Premium paint
-Any problems you encountered
Look up…
-Other general comments
Noting really, but the trigger pull seem to be a little bit harder or I just didn’t notice how it was
Before




One of the best upgrades for your mag! I highly recommend it.

EDIT: i forgot to say thanks to cphilip and jonneh!! thanks guys

[DiRTyBuNNy]

(Mods I'll delete this once you've had a chance to see it)

The one thing that people haven't been saying that i think maybe beneficial is what input pressure people are running. Manike had noted earlier that sometimes the gun starves without enough on the input side...so i was just wondering whether or not that also might be beneficial to Tom.

[nippinout]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

It took around 45 minutes to get it to finally work. About ten minutes was used getting familiar with the instructions and parts.

-The type of gun you're using it on

RT Pro

-Efficiency

I'm not sure. My gauge is apparently acting funny.

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

ZERO chops or breaks. I shot only 300 rounds of paint until my tank was empty. But the paint was 2 year old Proball. :D

-Any problems you encountered

My only problem was getting the carrier back out of the power tube. wesley was on AO chat and told me a pen. I didn't have one handy, so he recommended a small screwdriver - which worked well. Thanks wes!

-Other general comments

I forgot the order in which the carriers got larger. Maybe they should be in the instructions 2.0

My carrier o-rings were also already on the carriers.

My delrin washer wasn't black. Mine was an off-white color. I was kind of confused by the instructions/picture and with what I had in my kit.

Other than that, nice job AGD!

***Update***

I forgot some info.

I'm using carrier 2.5 with middle spring.

My tank is under 800psi right now, so I think that is why my reactivity isn't very reactive. Anybody else getting funny reactiveness? I'll have to refill to tell for sure.

[Will Wood]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly
-Not very long..I lucked out and the first setup worked great-Maybe 10 mins

-The type of gun you're using it on
Regular old standard Mag

-Efficiency
I was using CO2 on this test...so hard to tell. I will update when I can get my HPA tank filled. I used a 20oz full C02 tank for this.

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

I had about 100 balls ranging in age and type since I started paintball 4 years ago--Brass Eagle, Marbs, Team Colors, etc. NO CHOPS. This old crappy stuff Didn't break. Either did some unknown brand new unknown paint I had in my pods.

[/b]-Any problems you encountered
None yet[/b]..it was a quick test--Too darn hot out now.

-Other general comments
This rocks..
Regarding the above post about the white carrier....Yea lol I was searching the rug below me for a couple mins trying to find a black carrier I thought I lost. Note to AGD--Update the instruction about the color .

[virus]

1st and formost WWWWOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!

took about 20 min (once i was able to undo my old PT tip... TK you got gorillas puttin these things on???) =)
for now i have the 1.5 carrier though i still hear a very, very small leak down the barrel (have to hold ear upto p/f to hear it) middle spring, 2 spacers.... this was done with no chrony... i'm going to my local field 2nite (indoor team nite) and need to get to a 275fps or lower....
needed to crank on the back of my retro (2 1/2 turns) to get it to fire to what sounded normal..... also as a side effect for the first time sence i got my retro it went into runaway.... was able to control it but i think i will need to drop my input down to 1k or less, running 1.1k at time of install

went into my miniRT/Zgrip

as far as effciency.. .cant really say... i started with 3.5k in my tank and 2k in my scuba... needless to say i need to get it filled again

had 2 chops and about 15 break down the barrel.... though i am sure it was the paint.... 4 mo old BE (hey it was 20 for the case shipped) =) and there were at least 2 cracked/broken ballz in the bag of 500 i shot.... i switched over to about 400 each of diablo rec spot and 32°TC both of which went through fine... i could hear the bolt only pinchin on the ballz (as i was/left it with the runaway for this first test)... i know now i need to redjust my warp senseitivity... though i was not watchin it real close but it was most likely my Xboard revy was not keepin up.... did runaway for the whole hopper... only 3 times did the trigger not bounce on a misfire and i quickly got it going again.... after that i needed to pick my jaw up off the ground =)


well like i said i'll be playin tonight for team night... i'm pretty sure that they wont mind if i leave it set like it is now (ie runaway if i try for it) if not oh well i can adjust.... i do agree with WillWood.... i spent a couple of min thinking i had lost the black part... but then like will i realized it was white (yes this is nit picking.. but build a foolproof product and the world builds better idiots)

now time to get ready for my play tonight.... i'll post another report when i get back

[booyah]

first impressions after shooting :D [school girl giggle] hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe [/school girl giggle] :D

time to install: dummy directions bout 2 min

gun: Old school RT with Z grip and PMI Preset at about 900psi by the 2 guages on the gun

hopper: both a rickochet AK and a VL200 (yeah, ol vl200 no motoloader here :D)

got it setup, was shooting way hot after I got it shooting, changed out to the lower spring and brought myself down to 280 again. fired some shots at 350 and broke two in the barrel and chopped one after trying hard, turned it down and zero and zero

okay, i bet two guys at my local shop $5 each 2:1 odds that neither me, nor either of them could get my RT to chop. I have lunch money for tomorrow now :D

ran about 900 rounds of the crappiest paint we could find through this gun, 0bounce from 4 feet marbs, first gen 2 year old advantage PMI paint, new really brittle Worr paint and some real crap kickin.

after I was at 280 fps 0 chops, 0 breaks no matter how fast we ran, we actually turned the power feed plug sideways to try to get it to chop. couldnt...

We also tried to short stroke the gun but no such luck, it just wouldnt no matter how hard we tried... added side benefit? i dont know....

all in all, i sold 4 level 10s today... almost rented my RT to a guy for his tourny saturday for 50, but he didnt have cash and i know him too well to take a check :D


THANK YOU AGD AND CREW

[virus]

ok as i said in my last post here are my results....

paint pmi advantage shell... 2-4 bounce.. also a little dimpled but not much

my miniRT shooting 268-273fps, 14" jnj ceramic, Zgrip 5.6k flatline with an output of 1k

left my squeegee in my bag and played.... 0 chops 0 breaks down barrel.... only thing is i may actually have to change my 9v in my X-revy i had a bunch of blank shots during some of my longer strings (greater then 10 shots).... also i need to adjust my warp.. one game it kept spinning... fixed that went too far found the happy med and came to the conclusion it was the hopper not keeping up.... but as i said not chops... most of the guyz there were very impressed... esp after i did the straight shot demo down the barrel.... i think i need to move LvX retro over to my micro to do teh ball on tape demo... anyhow i couldn't be happier great job AGD...

[cphilip]

Ok quick report as its late...

EMAG with Flatline at 800 psi input.

Got mine runing in an hour...spent some time trying to find out from members here if they also had a white backing washer. A lot them did. Its the only washer in the kit that is not metal so that is the right one to use as the backing washer. and its flat.

After that point the only thing I ran into was to up the size of the carrer one size tighter (gonna have to look but it was snugger than what i first though was snug) and had to veloctiy one time or so. I had started out using the cut spring and changed to the stock old spring and then two spacers. Seem working fine.

My main problem was a sticky macro fitting and a retention of 300 psi in the line. But those only slowed me down a bit. And of course trying to confirm the Backing washer change. Also my not reading the quick start early enough and noticing the use of the stock spring for first set up.

I have not put paint though it nor stuck any appendages in there! I did put a handle from an old tooth brush in there (one i use to clean parts with) and it stops it ona dime.

A couple of tips:

A good O Ring pick comes on real handy to retrieve the carriers when trying on the bolt and in the PT. and for changing out the oring into the carriers. You need one anyway so go get one at your local autoparts store.

Plenty of air. SCUBA got a work out. was only getting about 2K fills. But did like four of them.

Do not worry about the white flat washer its the backing washer.

Start with the fast start instructions and it will be close.

make sure the carrier you chose it plenty snug not just snug. Two of them may actually work for you.

Get a degas system (degas slide check, proconnect etc) on there if you are hard lined (SS or Macro no QC) as the residual pressures in the marker are going to be two to three and even four times higher than before.



Conclusion:

I will have to update this with paint and break in. I got some real old Nelson and a crono hope to do that tomorow.

Official cphilip Proclamation:

This sucker works!!!!! :D

Added on edit after setting up on RT Pro and crono/paint results

Same carrier used in the emag set up of course. The 1.0 and two shims. First with stock spring then up to the middle (cut) spring. And eventuauly tried the longest. Was getting an occasional bolt stick with that longest one and the velocity was way close to the venting point. In fact would vent a little on pressure up. So I decided to go back down to the middle spring and set it up there. Over the Crono I got nice set up around 280 or so with some old Nelson Splat that was hanging around for the last five or six months. Some of this stuff was breaking first drop from about 3 feet. I turned the revy off and after the crono set went crazy on the thing trying to missfeed. I did hear it missfeed four times (stop on a ball and hiss) but no breaks in the PF nor down the barrel. I think I am going to settle in on this set up. Middle spring i.e. the moderate set up but still not too hard on the finger!

This sucker still works!!!! Can't wait to get the emag reset up.

[rx2]

Yo, yo, yo! level 10 has arrived...

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly
I read through the long procedure, and began the process. To get the gun to a working state, I would say that it took about 20 minutes. However, this is only PRELIMINARY. It didn't chop under normal circumstances, and appeared to fire consistantly, but I wish to tweak it a little more as there were a few mis-cycles, and the force is not as low as it might be if I altered the setup. More as it comes along...
Current setup is small spring, 1.5 carrier, and two shims.

-The type of gun you're using it on
Automag, CF17059. This marker is close to 9 years old.

-Efficiency
So far, I can't say. I will edit this part later.

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used
1 break after the bolt was cycled thrice on one round, which was held tightly in place with a finger.
Normal shooting exhibited no breaking through 300 rounds. Care was taken to force misfeeds by underloading a conventional hopper and angling the marker.
All sorts or OLD paint. 0 bounces at 6 feet, 1 to two at 3. Most had a high propensity to break at the seams.

-Any problems you encountered
As mentioned, the carriers can be difficult to remove.
The bolt still moves with a bit of force. I think that it is probably average for the initial setup of this mod. I must note that I was able to get the bolt force reduced beyond the point that it is at now, but it required the velocity to be adjusted just to the fringe of the maximal setting, which resulted in venting. I am going to try to alter spring and carrier combos to maximize the benefits. Perhaps breaking in the o-ring better will help.
Also, I may add another shim as it seems the bolt is not venting sufficiently at times.

-Other general comments
The trigger pull is noticeably heavier than before. I think this is due in part to the need to have the velocity adjusted to such a high level. Also, I suspect that lip of the bolt may be exerting a bit more friction upon the sear.
Also, for some odd reason, short-stroking seems to have increased. I think this may be due in part to the tightness from the setup and the use of the smaller spring, which may by impairing the cycle. I will update on this once I tweak and break in the system fully.

[manike]

Guys, using my scientific finger testing method I have tried the different bolt springs :) . I found the longest one results in significantly less bolt force (and thus chances of chopping).

I suggest if you can get the right velocity with the longest spring that you do. Resort down to the smaller and original springs if you can't get the right velocity with the longer one.

I also found that if you get a slight leak down the barrel which stops when you apply a tiny pressure to the trigger that you have too many shims in. Try taking one out and see if that works. My gun is now running without any shims and still resets perfectly if it stops on a ball. Adding shims does not stop leaks! It helps the resetting of the bolt due to where the air release hole is. Removing shims can stop slight leaks caused by where the release hole is in relation to the o-ring.

That's all for now, getting ready to go to Toulouse :) Keep your eyes on www.warpig.com for my report and possibly the first ever pictures of a C&C in tournament play...

manike

[Major Ho]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

An hour and half all together because at first I forgot to play with the velocity and kept getting stumped on why it would leak ornot work at all, etc... Once i reread and printed out the instructions it probably only took about 10 min. to put it together...
-The type of gun you're using it on
Warp feed, left feed minimag, 68 c.i. 3k AGD flatline tank, Retrovalve
-Efficiency
Not noticeable, but for once my valve went into runaway while w/o level 10 it never did
-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used
0 breaks mixture of new diablo seconds and 8 MONTH old Team Colors (only ~250 rounds all together)
-Any problems you encountered
Didnt play with velocity settings during the "leak" testing steps, made a world of difference when I did
-Other general comments
Tom Kaye is a genuis just for adding a lil O-ring here and a little brass doo hickey there to make it not chop.
I took off the warp feed and used a hopper AND turned it off. It makes nifty hissing sound when it pinches
Oh yeah almost forgot, input pressure up at 1150 as always:D

[rx2]

U P D A T E

Having run several hundred rounds through the marker, I have found what appears to be an ideal setup for my particular assembly.
I am using the 1.5 carrier, the "funny" spring, and three shims. It has been tested in conjunction for perhaps 1k shots with both CO2 and HPA at 875psi.
I am able to get the velocity I need without venting, and the bolt force is sufficiently low that even the most brittle paint, that I would encounter in real conditions, will not split or crack (0 bounce@4 ft.). Also, the addition of the extra shim seems to have alleviated the problem with bolt stick.

I MAY try to see if I can lighten the force further, although it would not really be needed at this point.

ALSO, for those of you whom misplace picks too often to have one when it is needed, the carrier may be easily removed by a paper-clip with a bent tip. Just get a few clips, bend the tips to a 90 degree angle, and keep them with your kit.

[Evil Bob]

Got my kits last night, installed..... still trying to recover from the shock...

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

Setup 2 RT's and 1 Emag, took my time with the first install (1 hour on my son's RT), the remaining 2 only took 20 mins each to setup and fine tune.

My bro's RT - Carrier #1.5, 3 shims, middle spring, 750 psi input.
My son's RT - Carrier #1, 3 shims, middle spring, 750 psi input
My Emag - Carrier #1.5, 3 shims, middle spring, 750 psi input.

-The type of gun you're using it on

My bro's High Rise RT (RT00597), my son's LPF RT (RT04631), and my EMag (EM00570)

-Efficiency

No idea just yet, won't know till I get my scuba tanks refilled tomorrow, only getting 1500 psi fills right now, not enough for a decent guess. I can normally shoot 700-800 from my Armagedon 68/4500 @3k psi, I also normally top off between games, never know when you just need to hammer.

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

Fired 500 rounds of old RPS green marbs through each, egg shaped, dimpled... zero chops on all three. 2 broken down the barrel (Smart Parts AA) on my son's RT, and 3 down the barrel (Old Smart Parts AA Barrel) on my bro's RT. Swapping out the ported tight bore barrels for stock Mag barrels resulted in zero breaks down the barrels. I see this as two possible issues, FPS too high and/or the ancient swollen paint, this case was set aside 9 months ago for being out of round. The stock barrels are much more forgiving in bore diameter then the other barrels. No chrono at the house so I'm only guessing as to what the FPS is currently at, it seems a bit high just eye balling it, will verify this weekend at the field.

-Any problems you encountered

Zero problems.

I had plenty of warning from previous posts about the white base o-ring, so was expecting to see it in the kit.

-Other general comments

Tom's quick start instructions are perfect for getting the kit installed and working in short order. Print and read through both before starting. Quick start is just that, quick and dirty. For fine tuning you need to read the long version.

Seeing the bolt stop in the video is one thing, seeing it do it for real will make a convert out of any non believer in short order. Amazing work Tom, simply amazing. My bro has been contemplating selling his RT as it and my son's RT have both been very problematic with paint breakage, they'll usually bust 1 in 20 rapid fire, a chamber break every time. It was very refreshing to hear the bolt coughing as it pinched the balls and having nothing break in the chamber. My bro is very excited as his RT now has a completely new lease on life. 3 extremely satisfied customers...

-Evil Bob

[Warthog#3]

How long to install? About 40m. #2 carrer, 2 shims, middle spring, 800 psi.
Type of marker. Micro Emag.
Efficency Not much difference.
chops or Breaks? Went to Wallmart and bought 200 rounds of brass eagle that had to be a year old. Opened and seen a slight bit of paint. this stuff would break in two just dropping it from my hip and no bounce. 0 chops even tried the tape trick. broke one ball down the barrel ( this might have been the one that was leaking in the contaner).
problems. Had installed the 1.5 carrer and the marker would fire in E mode but was all locked up in mechanical mode.
Comments This thing rocks!

[virus]

well i just found this interesting.....

i just happened to look down at my floor today in my room and low and behold i found a foamie.... at first i thought it was one of the spares from the kit and didn't think anything of it....

took my marker over to my firends house to show him what LvX would do for his RT... needless to say he was impressed but when i took out my vlave to show him the parts... i find my foamie was missing... i just looked at the on i found on my floor just now and it looks like there was glue on it at one time on one side...

the only time my mag was not in my gear bag was when i first set it up..... which means the foamie was not in the bolt the whole time though out the tests i did in my previous posts.... and i was using 2-4 bounce paint for it all and didn't even know it was missing.... this now has left me with no reservations about the LvX what so ever... esp seein the only time a squeegee was in my barrel was to show the pinchin action of the bolt at thte field....

now i just need to bring home some superglue from work (indust grade for plastic to metal bonding)

i'm just loving this more and more... now TK about those I-Zgrips (nudge nudge wink wink)

[cphilip]

My Foamie went bye bye too. have no idea when or where. Have not shot paint and maybe a hundred dry pulls and its missing.

On other issue though that I have noticed and maybe needs some attention:

Pressure retention when degassing is much higher. And presents a little bit of a problem. I am seeing like 250 - 300 psi still in the line when the system has degassed to a point that it will not shoot. I totally over looked this during install but it persists and was present then as I think back. I originaly thought it was a sticky Macro fitting but now realize It was under that much pressure. Now this is going to be a problem I think we are going to need to work on. Because in further demo last night I chopped my on off pin removing the valve and shot the on off assembly out. Breaking the on off pin!

We think this retention of gas is a by product of design here and can be a problem and require some sort of device like a slide check in the system to allow total degassing. Remember, I am not talking about that little hiss that you get most times but a big one 300 psi is way too much to start taking things apart. During install I was having to use and small box wrench to bleed the macro out. I had thought that was due to set up errors but it presisted even when the lvl 10 was working properly.

So I think its a part of the trade off here then and would like to know what others are seeing. Screw in tank guys will not see this. Quick connect guys are getting a big hiss I bet. Hard line set up guys with macro or SS line will see this i think.

I need for those of you with closed systems and adjustable tanks that have LP side guages to notice for me what pressures you see when degassed.

Added later on edit: I moved the lvl 10 over to the RT Pro. Since I cannot use the emag due to that broken On/off pin I figures WHY NOT! Easy thing to do as I had already disccoverd my correct carrier for this bolt right? So I just moved it right over as it was. Stock spring, two shims ect. And with a bit of upping the input I got it running quick in like five minutes.

But on degassing still showing retention of 200 psi in this one.

[mxracer33x]

Mods..Does this topic fit into this thread or should there be a post setup thread? I thought this thread was for initial setup and testing notes. Either way here it is..

Well I have not lost my foamie, yet. But I have experienced the same degassing problems. There is always 300 - 375 psi left in the line after turning off the air. This is due to the heavier spring. Just not quite enough pressure to get the bolt to move. Setups using a shorter spring might not have this problem at all or may just get an extra shot off, reducing the inline pressure a bit more. The trigger still has tension, and if you pull it enough it will reduce the pressure a bit (blow-by somewhere I guess). Removing the quick disconnect while under pressure has mangled the male fittings edges. On my marker with a flatline 3000 I have resorted to backing off the reg and letting it bleed the pressure off. It requires resetting the output pressure but it is easier on the fittings.

Well we will leave this and a redirect to a thread I started on this issue - cphilip

For degassing issue Go here: http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=41874

[oldsoldier]

Well, kit arrived wed, played a little w/it on thursday night, started my installation today. How long; about 1/2 hr, once I figured out what I need to do. Set it up on my stock emag. Used the 1.5 carrier, no shims, and the middle (cut) spring. havent had a chance to chrony it yet, or shoot paint, will get to that this weekend.
As a side note, I too still have pressure in the line. I screwed up one of my connectors getting in off, and had to install another one. I dont really think that there is anything you can do to correct it boltwise, but, like Cphilip said, maybe add a slide valve or something. If I wiggle mine around, I bleed of enough air to safely disengage it.
I will post the firing test later. Cant do it today, no where to go and fire it.

EDIT: Just added a slide check valve onto my steel line. Several other ppl here had too much pressure in the lines to safely disconnect the air when changing out carriers. Anoyone reading this that hasnt installed theirs yet, check out cphilips thread on the pressure in the lines.

[BlackVCG]

With respect to the left over pressure issue, ALL guns can have some sort of quick disconnect inbetween the tank and gun to bleed the residual pressure.

Macro and microline guys can take a straight fitting, screw that into a female QD fitting, and then screw a 90 degree elbow for SS hose into the valve or output of the tank, screw the male end of the QD into that and you now have a quick disconnect for Macro/Microline.

It's even easier to put one on SS hose.

[FatMan]

Originally posted by BlackVCG
With respect to the left over pressure issue, ALL guns can have some sort of quick disconnect inbetween the tank and gun to bleed the residual pressure.

Macro and microline guys can take a straight fitting, screw that into a female QD fitting, and then screw a 90 degree elbow for SS hose into the valve or output of the tank, screw the male end of the QD into that and you now have a quick disconnect for Macro/Microline.

It's even easier to put one on SS hose.

You are certainly right, but I think the point is a marker that previously had very little residual pressure might suddenly have too much. We don't know if that is an effect of the L10 design or something we're doing wrong or what. If it IS an effect of the L10, then you might want to consider RECOMMENDING a bleed valve of some sort. The amount of pressure left is nowhere near what is normal for a mag - and the first time (during L10 setup) it is potentially damaging or dangerous if you aren't expecting it.

FatMan

[cphilip]

Yes Fatman! That is truely the point. It's a new situation and frequent degasing is nesiscary to install lvl 10 and many may not expect it nor be prepared for it. Prior to this on all my mags a simple macro fitting was sufficent for degasing and now its not. Heads up!

[DarkPhoenix]

It took me around 40 minutes to install my Lvl 10. I presently use the No. 2 carrier, no shims and my original bolt spring on a E-mag (converted RT Pro).

It took a long while because it wouldn't fire the first time, at which point I completely disassembled the lvl 10 and found the shims had been mangled. It is my recomendation that the shims be made to the inner diameter of the power tube to prevent the shims from accidentally slipping during the installation procedure. After 8 minutes of gently coaxing my mangled shims out of the power tube, I decided to go shim-less, which ended up working very well.

I have only tested it out on objects inserted into the breach, as I will be proceeding to the paintball store tomorrow, so me and my freinds can test out the modification, I will edit my post then.

[triggerman]

10 mins. to install
type of gun: 68 minimag

only problem i had installin it was that i couldn't rapid fire the gun. After raiseing the imput pressure it worked fine.


I had several peolpe put their finger in front of the bolt and were shocked at the result. there not even a cocker in this world that is as gental on paint. with my z-grip i decied to wait on an rt valve till i get a new warp its just not nessary. Thank you airgun.

[Russ]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly
About an hour...

-Long Silver Mainspring
-Carrier w/2 lines (.308"?)
-2 Shims

Basically the "default" set-up

I had to turn up the velocity adjuster about 3/4 of a turn to get the gun to stop leaking and shoot at 280fps. I turnrd 'er up to 295ish and fired away!

-The type of gun you're using it on
E-Mag, set at 16 bps (H/L mainbody), stock barrel w/new design plastic nubbins. 68/4500 Flatline set @1000psi output pressure and a HALO loader.

-Efficiency
Dunno yet, and I don't really care, cause I'm not breaking ANT paint!

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used
I shot a bag of old BigBall I had for 3 months. No breaks. I bought a case of Viper Venom yellow, 500 shots, no breaks. I went to a local PB store, and bought 2 bags of "discount" paint (old stuff, brittle stuff that the owner just wants to get rid of) 1 bag of 32* blue/silver...no breaks, 1 bag 32* brown (cleveland?)...ONE break, in the barrel, about a third of the way down.

The paint was fired by me & my Son, pretty much as fast as we can pull the trigger. E-Mag is set on 16bps. Hopper was fired 'till empty over and over. I couldn't chop a ball!

As a control, my son shot about 50 or so rounds of each paint through his Gen-X 3 'Cocker, with no breaks.

I'm stoked! :D


-Any problems you encountered
I had a bit of leaking at first, the power tube "O" ring in the carrier just needed breaking in. A couple hundred dry-fires took care of it. I may need to drop the carrier down 1 step as the "O" ring further wears. The foamie fell off the bolt during the first few dry-fires. I re-glued it with a 2 part epoxy.

-Other general comments
So far, so good. About 1800 rounds fired, ONE barrel break. Accuracy with the BigBall and Viper Venom were outstanding! Gotta get LVL 10 for my classic mag now! :cool:

EDIT: and about residual air pressure in the lines, I use a Q/D, mounted near the Flatline's reg, to speed up field stripping & gun maintainence. Just release it, and the air escapes safely. It's a good idea, LVL 10 or not.

Russ

[Army]

HOORAY

It took exactly 29:47 to fully install (stopwatch), and test fire. I used the new standard size bolt spring, two shims, and the "one stripe" carrier. All parts simply dropped in with no resistance. The carrier was given a nudge into the power tube with the cap of the KC Trouble Free oil bottle, it's a perfect fit as a plunger. The foamie left the building on the very first shot, but I foresee no trouble there.

It has been installed in Big Red. I chose to use the Minimag and Co2 to give it a fair shot. My Emag isn't having enough troubles to really have a true test of the system. I used up a new fill in the 16oz just playing with it, by shooting a pencil through a soda can (pencil fully in barrel, hit by bolt at end of travel so as to get the full speed and air blast), then pressing the soda can against the point of the pencil ,eraser against the bolt...yup, psssst is all I got! I even did the finger trick, heck, who of you haven't yet?

I had to increase the velocity to get it to fire off the new spring, but do not know the true speed yet. I'm playing tomorrow, so I will edit this post then.

*EDIT* Ok, it's tomorrow and I'm back from playing.

With the 8:30AM temperature 85+F, I chronoed at: 285-285-289-290-285-287, which for Co2 is superb! I did my best to break/chop/misfeed/crap on/totally screw up the gun................didn't happen at all/not once/what-so-ever.

Turned off the Revvy, shot it sideways, upside down, fast as possible. No chops. I made no changes to the internals, although I may put in one more spacer for S&G.

So, I decided to do the most evil of deeds.....I raised the 20oz upside down and above the gun.

You could watch the slinky and expando frost up, then the AIR valve...then I started shooting until the snow was flying, and the gun absolutely locked up and was leaking hard out the barrel. Ice is now flaking off tank, slinky, AIR valve, and body tube.

The on/off was frozen open, and the bolt was stuck forward, so when the valve thawed slightly, the remaining high pressure in the slinky rushed out in a pretty cloud of snow and smoke, just like a fire extiguisher, that made everyone back off a little with a look of fright! Of course, this mad rush of Co2 liquid out the bolt and barrel totally froze the LX componants AND the ball that was still in the chamber. Waiting another 3.5 minutes resulted in the bolt spring finally pushing the bolt back to sear lock.

Immediately after hearing the "click" of the sear, I got back on the trigger and started wailing away. Despite the great blizzard that erupted from the barrel, LX kept on shooting without any chops or stops.

I let anyone who wanted to, shoot the gun AND stick their finger in the breech! The universal response from 'Mag owners was......"I'm DEFINATELY gonna get me one of THOSE!" I can guarantee the first week sale of ten LX's at the local Pball shop.

BTW: OOOOOOOUUUUUUCH! I got hit way too often today:D

[Evil Bob]

Update.....

Chronoed up at the field, all three markers (1 old HR RT, 1 newer RT, and 1 EMag) are in the 320+ from the initial setup, most likely the reason why I broke paint during the initial setup as well as it was plain ugly paint to begin with (egg shaped, dimpled, swollen, etc.)

Put 1,000 rounds (bought 2 cases of fresh RPS Marbs) through each of the Mags I added the LVL 10 kit to before lunch. Field has us chrono under 270, all three dialed right in at 265-269 without much effort. Found that if I dialed below 260, I'd get alot of coughing and bolt stick. Seriously thinking about upping the input from 750 to 800+ to compensate. Field conditions are pretty dusty, and one of the RPS bags in the second case had really gritty balls in it, some fine powder was on the surface of the paintballs, never seen this before. Ran into bolt stick problems with my EMag (input at 750) after putting 700+ rounds through it (including that bag of dirty RPS paint). Cured the problem by putting in a few drops of KC Trouble Free into the quick disconnect after each game. If I didn't oil up, I'd run into bolt stick the next game. It was definitely worth taking the time to do it after each game. Going to send a nasty gram to RPS about dirty balls... someone in their QC dept needs to be slapped around...

0 breaks/ 0 chops... flawless.

After lunch I put away the RT's and put the remaining 1,000 through my EMag.

0 breaks/0 chops... flawless.

Gas Efficiency...

Found I could get 750-800 easily on a single 3k fill in my Armagedon 68/4500 with LVL 10, Without LVL 10 I used to get close to 900... so there is a marginal loss, along the lines of 15%. If I don't chop paint as a result, so be it. If it becomes an issue, I'll get that mega booster I've been drooling over.

Best quotes of the day...

"What the HELL is that??!!" a player exclaimed as he pointed at my Emag/Warp/HALO combo...

Showed LVL 10 to everyone who would listen, including the field owner who is a die hard Mag convert, his words were "it's about damn time!"

"That is so damn cool! Man, I gotta get me one of those. I want your's, how much you want for it?" he says as he's digging out his wallet.

"I was torn between getting an Angel and an EMag" a player said looking down at his shiny new Angel, after I showed him how LVL 10 works he said "it appears I have chosen poorly." :D

-Evil Bob

[AGD]

EB,

You are too close to the edge with your setup. Rasing the input pressure will not help the bolt stick. You need to go down to the next size mainspring to cure the problem.

On the other had you probably have it setup to be the most forgiving that it can get. The way you have it now would be a pro tourney setup but you do have to oil it often.

AGD

[DarkPhoenix]

UPDATE! After wearing the o-ring in, I have switched to the 1.5 carrier and added 1 shim, two shims were causing a steady leak and after fishing out another mangled shim (this makes three)I have had absolutely no other problems since. My set-up still has the original bolt spring that came with my RT Pro, before I had it converted to an E-mag.

My only recomendation is that the shims need to be made to either the inner diameter of the power tube or a touch smaller, to facilitate ease of removal. I have severely mangled 3 shims despite my careful following of the install instructions, not a major problem just a very minor inconvenience. Now all I have to do is buy 3 more shims for my kit...:D

PS Thanks Tom and everyone from AGD, who helped in the creation and manufacture of this incredible product.

[E-SFL]

Tom Kaye is the man! I received my SFL last week Friday on the 28th. Couldn't play with it because they shut us down, because of the extreme fire danger in the forests, in our part of Arizona and there is no private fields where we live. So today, the 6th we travelled to play on a private field and played against some other speedball teams and lit them up with the new SFL. The Level 10 and the ACE were amazing, no breaks, no burps, no smiles from the other team. Everybody wants one. The SFL with the Level 10 and the ACE in it showed up Angels and Cockers all day. I put 1200 rounds of Marbalizer through it. There was one drop in velocity at the chrono station. It dropped from 272 to 227 from one shot to the next and never did it again after that. I am very pleased with the new gun and its performance.

[jb1363]

hey guys i am new to the forum but i order a beta level ten and that was like 2 weeks ago and it still isn't here is there a large supply and demand or what.

[oldsoldier]

Well, went to the field for official testing today. First, I switched springs, running the short spring in my emag. No problems at all. Chrony'd a little high for my field...297. Had to crank it way down to get under 25. Finally settled on 277. Good enough.
I put almost a whole cae through it, shooting Worrpaint. One barrel break-thats it. It did actually hiss twice, I was firing hybrid mode, and the first time I heard it, I thought it sounded pretty cool. Well, no breaks either time it pinched. Great product, and, my only suggestion when it is officially released, is like everone else; make sure they know the pressure in the lines are higher than normal when you degas. Other than that, I love this!
Oh, one other thing; I was running the original superbolt in this, and didnt notice either a recoil or weight difference at all.

[Russ]

I put 500 Viper Venom (orange) balls through the gun today. I TRIED to chop a ball. Held the gun sideways, no chop, used the VL200 (plain 'ol hopper) shooting in hybrid, shooting as fast as possible, No Chops. No Breaks, period!

The gun just goes "pftt" when there is ball caught half-way in the chamber. The bolt re-set EVERY time! :cool:

I did loose another foamie, and did most of (?) the shooting today WITHOUT a foamie on the bolt!

once again...

#2 carrier
long silver spring
2 shims
1000psi input pressure

Yes, I am excited about LVL10 :D

Russ

[FreshmanBob]

First off this things awsome!

I'm using the 1.5 carrier with 2 shims and the short spring. All together i fired about 1300-1400 rounds without one single break or chop! Usually the bolt would push the paintball either all the way into the chamber and fire or out of it and dry fire if it wasn't quite there. I can even stick my pinky in the breech and fire, just goes pff an resets.

The only problem i found was that when first gasing up the gun i had to push the bolt back about an 8th of an inch then it worked great.

This things amazing! usually i would have had atleast 2 chops and 1 barrel break, but not anymore!

[DarkPhoenix]

UPDATE I went to my friendly paintball field for some more hardcore testing. My set-up is the 1.5 carrier, one shim and the original spring on my warp feed left E-mag (converted RT Pro) with warp feed and turborev board modified revolution. I have put over 6000 rounds through my E-mag today, brands including JT Maxim,Inferno, Midnight, Zap Pro and a year old case of brand X paint. All in all it was a fun and uneventfull day with not a single chop. Quite a surprise from my friends at the field who are use to seeing me walk off the field oozing paint from the barrel from my chopping paint. Now, I am just trying to find more brittle paint to shoot through it, as the most brittle paint the field offers (see above) has been shot through my E-mag. I will continue to update whenever I get more paint to shoot.

[VBmag87]

I am using the 1.5 carrier with 0 shims and the longest spring. I fired 350 shots, not sure what kind it is, well I had 0 breaks, 0 chops. Tomorrow I am going to put 1000 more through it and see what happens ,and do even more testing.

-Problems encountered
The only problems I had was when I first dry fired about 3 times, the foamie came flying out. So I had to reglue it after. And also there was a very small leak but after try fireing it for alittle bit that took care of it. Every thing else went pretty well from there.

-took me about 40 minutes
-68 mag P/f ,12 volt revy,I-frame, teardrop barrel,68/3000 800psi usally get around 750 shots.

--Gas Efficiency
Not really sure yet, going to get my tank refilled tomorrow and then I can probably tell and update on it. Not sure what my velocity is, but will find out soon.

LVL 10 is awsome!

[Evil Bob]

It seemed to be about the perfect config for the markers I was working on, really gentle on the paint, didn't take much to stop the bolt. Basicly I never wanted to see a broken ball at the bolt again on these three markers. The normal spring just didn't seem to be forgiving enough for me.

I didn't have any major bolt stick problems until I hit that bag of really gritty paint in my EMag, this stuff was really dusty, I could feel it on my hand after loading up my tubes, and this was right out of a fresh box. The other three bags in the case were just fine. When I got home, the bolt and spring were really grimey, more so then usual. Oiling up regularly between games really seems to go along way.

Went out today to another field, their field limit is 300 fps, dialed in at 295, was +/- 3 fps all day long. Burned through 2 and half cases of Diablo Hellfire, 0 chops/0 breaks.

Quotes from today...

A player on pink team as I walk by: "I hear there is someone on yellow with an E-mag, I bet he doesn't get to play very often with all the paint he breaks"
3 guys standing near him start chanting "blender, blender, blender, blender..."
I salute them with a big grin on my face. In game I took out one of his buddies on the right tape as he's making a move for the 50 yard bunker, tagged him on the run with a long string of paint, yelled for my teammates to give me cover fire and boogied for the bunker he had just vacated, got angles on their whole front line, shot 5 out in short order. At the end of the game I walked past the same four players, I was chanting "e-mag, e-mag, e-mag, e-mag..." with a big stupid grin on my face :)

Ref comes up to me after game three, it's Mike, a guy I've known and played with for over 10 years: "Been alot of complaints that you're shooting full auto, I know you have a stock EMag so I know that aint possible. Mind if I check it out?"
"Sure thing."
He rips a long string of paint, sounded like around 10 bps... "Oh... My....God....... that aint right."
He hands it back, I take it and rip a faster and longer string.... no hickups, no chops, nothing, just a long string of Hellfire hitting a narrow tree 30 feet away. I turn back to Mike and say "Level 10 warpfed HALO goodness."
"You're shooting Hellfire?"
"Yep."
Mike turns and walks away without saying a single word, the expression on his face was priceless.

After lunch I moved from the speedball field to the woods, so did the first 4 guys I ran into at the first game. Flanked left, took out three guys who didn't even know I was there, shot out 3 people in the flag station, pulled the flag, then came down the opposite side of the field. Ran into my 4 buddies on the left tape, butt shot two of them before they even knew I was there.
One of them yells: "Oh poop-poop-de-do! Its the Emag guy!"
Shot the remaining two out. Came out with the flag over my shoulder only to get shotout by my own team, gotta love rec ball :) Game ends 5 minutes later when the 12 year old who shot me out returned the flag to our base.
Back in the staging area I'm reloading and chilling out. My 4 buddies approach me, they're wanting to take a serious look at the EMag/Warp/HALO rig I'm running. Showed them how LVL 10 works and let them shoot it at the chrono station. 4 new Automag converts...

-Evil Bob

[Panzerr]

Level 10 installed on a Triggernomics ReTro Mag

2 shims
standard bolt spring

Installation took about 30 minutes. One thing I'd like to add...If you have it gassed up and your marker does not leak, but when you pull the trigger and the bolt only goes slightly forward and either does not reset itself or resets itself, you need to turn up your velocity.

I shot a 2000 rnd case of Kick'n paint without a single break. The paint is a medium shell. The temp was in the 80s and the humidity was very, very high. In fact it was so humid that the paint would swell shortly after taking it out of the bag. Most of the case (1500) was shot during play. The remaing 500 were shot as fast as possible. I shot an entire hopper with my loader off and not a single break.

I haven't used this product enough to tell if there is a difference in efficiency.

I am very impressed and have a new found love for my mag.

[1_BAD_TAZ]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

It took me about 2 hours while reading the instructions from Tom. Then took to proshop to get the Automag expert to help fine tune it. That took another hour or two.

-The type of gun you're using it on

Automag classic with Auto Response (no more paint soup). I need a faster loader then my 9 volt it can't keep up with the A/R

-Efficiency

About the same.

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

0 breaks 0 chops blaze and team colors. a couple of breaks when we held the ball there and kept firing. (side note 6 hits in tourney paint and it will break)

-Any problems you encountered

none pretty simple with the instructions from Tom. The Proshop just changed the carrier to make it so it doesn't break tourney paint.

-Other general comments

Level 10 is well worth the cash unless you have never choped a ball. I also love telling people i don't carry a squegee anymore go find a ref.:D

[mxracer33x]

Installation Time: About 30 minutes.

#1 carrier (1.5 had a very small leak when pushing the bolt around)
Long Spring
1 Shim

Shot 1000 rds of Anarchy - 0 breaks/ 0 chops
Shot 500 rds of Great American - 0/0

Efficiency: First time using a new tank. Switched from a 47ci nitro duck to a 68ci Flatline. No accurate measurement but I got about 600 out of my 68ci and I used to get 600 out of my 47ci w/o Lvl 10. So I believe it is a bit less efficient. Not to bad

Problems: The first part of the day the marker worked flawlessly. After I removed the valve to show some Mag Haters why they were getting smoked all day I had a few issues. After shooting a few shots, then waiting 15 seconds or so, the next shot would be extremely low pressure the next shot would shoot 2 balls, then everything was fine till it was rested again. I could not detect any leaks and the tank was full and regulated pressure was showing 850 psi. I have yet to be able to go through the marker to see if I could find anything else wrong. Any ideas would be appreciated. (I tried re-oiling it)

[rx2]

UPDATE
Efficiency: Roughly 800 reliable shots from a 3K fill. Just a bit less than before.

[jb1363]

The level ten arived and within ten minutes it was up and running. we (me and sniper1rfa) used the quick start guide. our set up uses the medium spring, two shims, and the 1-1/2 carrier. we had NO problems whatsoever with an old level 7.

we shot about 500 rounds of mixed old, crappy, 2 bounce TC and old crappy marbs. the only problem (sorry, i lied) we had was that some of the paint was so swollen the bolt could not push it into the breech. we had one break because a good (read: better) ball slammed into a stuck one. no chops though. i doubt this will be a problem with good paint. BTW, sniper1rfa, who cannot shoot a mag to save his life, put the thing through its paces, stopping the bolt on paint every 5th shot or so.

we ran about 350 shots through it and the 68 ci tank whent from 2300 psi to about 1200 psi. noticeably worse, but not too bad. ran fine with a screw in preset tank.

also, the foamie is still kickin', though i doubt it is necessary with this kit.


now excuse me while i go shoot my finger some more (im out of paint).

[athomas]

Well. I got my two level 10's today.

Emag:

First installation into my emag Installation took about 40 min to get it right (including shim tweaking). It may take more to get it perfect.

I tried the a couple of different carriers ending up with a number two. The carrier initially felt tight, but the next larger one leaked air. The number 2 carrier performs well though so it must be the proper fit.

Next came the shims. I held the bolt while pulling the trigger to see what effect each of the shims had. I found that 5 shims caused constant leakage out the barrel, 4 worked but leaked if the bolt was bumped or if the trigger was slightly pressed. 3 shims provided crisp control without premature leakage . There really wasn't much difference in feel between 2 shims and 3 shims except that the air would vent quicker in the event of a blockage if the 3 shims were used instead of 2.

I've stayed with the short stock spring. I haven't got a chrono so I can't play with the settings properly until the weekend.

Update: Well, I couldn't wait so I purchased a chrono. I played with the settings and ended up using the middle(cut) spring. I am able to shoot about 285 consistently without missing a shot due to a tight ball. The largest spring wouldn't shoot when the velocity was consistently below 300. With the middle spring the impact on the ball is very light and gentle. I believe I have found Nirvana in my emag.

Update: I had the emag in a tounament today June 13/2002. When setting it up to chrono using the standard RT chrono method, it would cough with a ball in the chamber. When I fired normally, it seemed to work fine. I though I might be close to the edge of performance so I cut about 1/4 inch of spring steel off the middle spring (not 1/4 inch of length) that I was using. I was able to chrono properly after that with no coughing. After breaking it in it seems to work better and I may have to order another proper middle spring.

I shot about 1200 rounds in 5 games playing 3 on 3. I busted a ball in the breech at the start of the second game. It didn't look like a chop but it made a mess. Other than that it rocked and it felt good. Lots of mag users were at the tourny and I was spreading the news.


I noticed a slight metal on metal sound when manually pushing the bolt in and out of the power tube. It had a rougher feel than normal. Maybe its just something due to tighter tolerences and will smooth itself during break-in. Anyone else notice this? It doesn't seem to affect the operation. I just don't like the feel of metal on metal. Update. The metal contact was between the new power tube tip and the inside of the new bolt. Contact was being made at the front outside edge of the round section of the power tube tip, and only on one side. It'll probably smooth itself out. I'll be keeping an eye on it for wear.

I tried shooting with a squeegy held down the front of the emag against the bolt. That way I could get a feel for the pressure applied to the ball. The pressure is very gentile until about the 3/4 past the feed neck. You can feel the difference by varying the end of the squeegy when you fire. Its quite amazing.

I can see that my chopping problem will be eliminated or at least reduced even if a generic setup is used. I'll be fine tuning mine through a range of settings. Whats the use of a beta tester if I don't put it through its paces. See above comments now that I've updated.

Automag:

I've installed the second level 10 bolt kit into an old 1993 vintage level 7 automag using the stock spring. Set-up time was about 30 min. I figured it would be much quicker the second time but it takes time to time test spacer settings.

Again, I settled on the number 2 carrier. The next larger one was too finicky. It would work but had random leakage problems.

I installed the shims and again settled on 3 shims that provided the best control close to the venting point without leakage during partial trigger pulls.




Complete details will follow once I have access to a chrono. Done, see above in Emag section.

Not one chopped ball yet in 500 rounds fired without a battery in my revy, although I have yet to use bad paint.

One thing I have noticed is that you have to be a little more careful when you set your gun down. If you lean it on the barrel, it may leak a little air out the front.

Level 10 rocks.

[rudy]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

about 1.5 hours between 2 days of trying different setups and velocities

-The type of gun you're using it on

minimag with retro VV00733 and hyperframe, dynaflow 68 4500

-Efficiency

I did not take any numbers down. And filled my tank many times so I don’t have numbers. Seemed less efficient.

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

0 chops 0 breaks after it was set up. One ball chopped el tigre with the smallest spring. When I was holding them to force a chop. After I moved to the medium cut spring it no longer broke paint with el tigre, slam, and marbilizer.


-Any problems you encountered. I could not use the longest spring without the reg venting and same with the medium spring until I compressed it myself to break it in.

I had one problem during the day of play. The bolt did not fire the ball but pushed it into the barrel like short stroking a cocker can do. I pulled the next ball out instead of shooting it because I was worried 3 might pile up in there and jam up my barrel

I have more stuff to say in this link, which I separated because it may draw some discussion, which should not clutter this thread. I would like tom or someone for AGD to carefully consider the ideas and suggestions presented.

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42317

EDIT
Another day of play with hell fire today I decided to take out 1 ship putting me at 2 and I had no problems no breaks no chops we were shootign at 250fps though

[FrAuStY]

Installed my Lvl10 in 15 minutes using 1.5 carrier, 3 shims and longest spring. Let me tell you..this thing is VERY gentle.

Gun:
Automag 68 A.I.R. Valve MM body. 68/3k Flatline

Efficiency:
Slightly less than without lvl10. I get about 800 rounds out of a full 300 fill.

Breaks/Chops:
Using Severe (crappy) two color... 1 bounce field paint. I used this saturday..and all I can say is... "Amazing!" There were times I knew I would have chopped if it weren't for this bolt kit. I could hear the gun hiss then the next pull pop out comes the ball. Never had two fir wat the same time though. It started to rain a little making the paint real sketchy..and it never once chopped. I showed it off to everyone at my field and most were like Holy SH&& I can't believe you're gonna stick yer finger in there. I was like..well this is a lvl10 not a standard lvl7 mag... then their mouths hit the ground when I fired repeatedly with my finger in the breach. I also jammed a ball half in the feed tube with the barrel twisted a little to hold it in place....let everyone fire it as many times as they wanted and it never chopped the ball. Even though it was kinda squishy from the moisture in the air due to the rain. All in all... love it. Gonna sell it every chance I get.

Any problems encountered:
None.

I will have step by step pics up on my website of installation of LVL10. Tomorrow..

[joeyjoe367]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

Well, it took me about 40 mins (Yeah, i'm a bit slow) to get it working correctly. For some reason or another, I couldn't really get it to shoot higher than 270 fps, but that might have been my paint/bore match, and the fact that I'm using a boomstick (2pc); air would vent out back if turned up any higher.

Used #2 carrier, 1 shim, and STD MainSpring <---- Weird. Someone explain to me?

-The type of gun you're using it on

Mini-Mag, Classic Valve, Intelliframe, 68/3000 ACI Bulldog (Old Style), Warp Feed, Boomstick (std. Brrl ID: .688)

-Efficiency

DIdn't shoot enough to get good numbers.

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

I was Just messing around @ my friend's place with 1 yr old Diablo Blaze. about 200 rnds, 0 chops, 0 breaks. I tried the paintball w/tape thing, and couldn't get it to chop. not expecially brittle paint, but good enough anyways.

-Any problems you encountered

Had a hard time setting it up. Couldn't get velocity over 270 fps, but probably because of very loose fit paint, and 2 pc barrel.

For some reason or another, Using the standard (normal mag) main-spring worked best for me.

-Other general comments

Very Very nice. I like the lack of recoil that I experienced. Not a previous super-bolt I user, so I have nothing to complain about. I'll probably pick up another bag of paint, and tinker with it a bit more, perhaps use a longer spring. I ran out of air (2000 psi) after getting the thing to work, and shooting a hopper of paint. 'still a bit pissed about the lil' low velocity, but I'll have to deal with it.

Paint wouldn't chop in it, however when I put my finger in the breech, I noticed that it kinda hurt when my finger was in the far side of the breech (away from the bolt). I think I wanna get it a bit slower.

Tried the dollar trick, and it sorta worked.

[paintballisking]

ok the set up a minimag with the
1.5 carrier and 2 shimms longest spring

took me about an hour total to the time of firing paint through it

fired about 50 shots through it due to lack of compressed air the shoots went through very cleanly didn't chop but in wierd angles it did pop out two balls (BETTER THAN PAINT IN THE BARREL LIKE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN) didn't get a chance to crono it but by looking at the ball speed and sound it sounded like a good fps.

recomendations to knew buyers
get the bolt i have an impulse and i was going to say bye to my mini but it is sooo hard now i might just have to have that as my back up gun and if i got the retro valve it would be a tough desicion on witch to use in tourneys.

[1_BAD_TAZ]

I finally got the auto response trigger working on my classic automag. This combined with the Level 10 is OMG seweet.:D My only issue now is that i need to get a better hopper since my current one can't keep up. That is not a hard problem to fix. I love this anti chop level 10.

[RiceRocket]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

This part was done for me. I just received a Lvl 10 kit to install into another Emag and will report results later.

-The type of gun you're using it on

Shocktech SFL Emag with HALO B

-Efficiency

Roughly 580 effective shots from a 45/4500 PMI Pure Energy screw-in

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

0/0 RPS Marbs Advantage, RPS Evil pink

-Any problems you encountered

none

-Other general comments

Once in a while, there comes a product that revolutionizes the way the game is played. Level 10 is definitely the latest.

As one of the beta testers from the beginning of the Level 10 design, I experienced everything - good and bad. The Level 10 is the culmination of AGD's approach to creating the perfect marker. On one test run, two weeks prior to the release of the Level 10's to AO, I played 14 consecutive 10-man games without a single barrel break or chop while shooting some of the most fragile paint on the market - RPS Evil. Tournament play can present some of the most demanding situations in the way you have to shoot your gun. I never had an instance that it failed to shoot when I needed it most. Towards the end of practice I was able to shoot even when the battey had finally drained as well.

I believe even the most fickle of gun owners will try and stay with an AGD marker with this modification in it.

[Kaiser Bob]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

From the second i tore open the box to where it was installed it took about 5 minutes. Took a time out to bring my gun to the pro shop so id have a unlimited source of air to work with. From that time to when i found the best combination was another 10 minutes. Right now im running 0 carrier, 2 shims, and the longest spring although i had 1.5 in there and it worked fine as well.

-The type of gun you're using it on

Emag

-Efficiency

Seems about the same.

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

0/0 about 350 balls using month old worr field paint that had been in my car and then sitting around in my pods at 20 bps. Then the pro shop guy used about 200 TC and fanned in semi.

-Any problems you encountered

Not really a problem, but with the smallest carrier i notice i have to jack the pressure up farther then my tank will let me to get 20bps F/A. However it will do 14-16 and whatever i can walk it just fine. I noticed once when i had it sitting for a couple minutes, it froze up, but once i degassed and reconnected it was fine. Small price to pay for using the tightest carrier.

-Other general comments

This thing is amazing! I did the finger thing, the tape on the ball thing with the bolt hitting the seam, and 20 bps with a warp and Halo-A and it didnt show any signs of breaking! Im definitely a satisfied customer! :D

[Cypres0099]

Took me about an hour to install because I had to rig up some stuff do I could quickly disconnect my Flatline.

Gun

I'm using an Emag.

Efficiency
Efficiency was near what it was before, maybe a little less.

Paint stuff

I had one chop when I put a viewloader 200 on my warp. It was very sticky and humid outside. So I had 1/0 out of 700 of the Brittlest (sp?)most unconsistant paint I could get my hands on. That's right, Brass Eagle. The bounce test that I did was 0,0,2,2,9,9


Problems

The way I had it would chop a ball every now and then when doing the tape thing with a paintball. One would take 30 pinces and the next would only take 2 or something like that. I would really like to know how to get this thing set as low as possible.


Comments

I love how little kick there is. I think it would be great if you could buy or if it came with a little "oring carrier carrier" that would be nice.

[Ariestsheft]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

Approximatly 10 minutes

-The type of gun you're using it on

.68 Automag Classic

-Efficiency

Un-noticable change

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

0, 3 month old Diablo Blaze (1-4 bounce)

-Any problems you encountered


N/A

-Other general comments


I just put 140 rounds thru the ole' mag with absolutly no problems. I purposely tried to make the gun chop, it was impossible. The paint was 3-month old Diablo Blaze, it was quite brittle. The lvl 10 perfermed FLAWLESSLY! This has to be the best $65 I've ever spent on paintball. My friend just offered me $100 for it. But, its all mine :) .

[clanger]

How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

First try, around 25 minutes with medium spring. It didn't work properly with this setup though. When I played on it I couldn't shoot more then 270 and it would then drop off lower unless I upped the velocity. It would continue to drop. I readjusted it now, hopefully its all better.

The type of gun you're using it on

Retro Automag

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

Didn't chop on my first setup even though I had barrel breaks. That low price worr paint stinks =(.

Any problems you encountered

I don't know if it will shoot properly until I get the gun checked out tommorow at the chrono and then onto the field.

[CleenSweep]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly
It took me 20min. to setup and an hour or so to test and make changes. I'm currently using 1.5 carrier, middle spring, and one shim.

-The type of gun you're using it on
Retro minimag w/warp and itelliframe setup, dye aluminum barrel and nitroduck tuffskin 4500

-Efficiency
Little less than before but also had problems with the gun not cycling but the tank had plenty of pressure. I'll address this in other problems

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used
500 shots, 0 breaks, 0 chops (and I really tried)

-Any problems you encountered
With the new setup the marker will loose pressure and not fire with over 1000psi (1100 to be exact) when I switched springs to the shortest I got maybe 15 more shots out of it and then it would not fire a ball.

-Other general comments
I'm going to do a search and try to find out why it quits cycling at 1000psi.

[BJ7]

i have clumsy angel fingers incapable of operating any mag more advanced than a classic mag with single trigger, and i was unable to chop any paint. when i test fired panzerr's level 10 RT last weekend the first 50 to 75 rounds run down it were 5 month old proball platinum which had been sitting in the hopper of one of my markers for a month. i was very impressed with the level 10

[animal]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

Took me a a day and a half to finally get it working.... I ran out of air. :( It was probably about 40 minutes of actual work tho. I ended up going back to a #2 carrier and oiling the heck out of it to stop the leak that occured. I had bolt stick with a 1.5 carrier. I'm using the middle spring and 2 shims.

-The type of gun you're using it on

Tequila Fade Emag

-Efficiency

I topped it off after every game so I'm not quite sure. Seemed the same tho.

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

I held a ball in front of the bolt to facilitate a chop, I got 5 bounces and then a break... not really a chop, it just broke the ball. It's actually kinda nice to have a breech break that you don't fire after. Easier to clean :) When I wasn't purposely trying to chop with it, I broke no balls at all. New and old diablo blaze.

-Any problems you encountered

The bolt stick was cured by going back to a #2 carrier. The only other problem I noticed was when I leaned my barrel on something, I'd get a slight leak. I just oiled the crap out of it again and it was fine.

-Other general comments

With a few understandable hiccups in setting it up, it was an awesome upgrade. It even SOUNDS cooler when u fire :)

[Jay Dever]

I shot a *EDIT* Please do not cuss here. I realize you are a new member, so this is just a warning. Army load of paint threw it today it broke one ball at the end of the barrel. I even use some old paint ive had in tubes from las vegas (hellfire) and it did well so far so good

[LittMag]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

about 1 hr
using 1.5 carrierand 3 shims

-The type of gun you're using it on

Std feed Automag w/ CO2

-Efficiency

About the same

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

1 break when I was trying to dupicate the video where Tom held the ball 1/2 way in the breach. It took 6 hits to break the ball
**edit** the ball didn't explode like a normal chop, it just sorta got sliced open and some paint oozed out... a couple of dry shots cleaned it all out.

500 rounds of marbs no breaks

-Any problems you encountered

Just took a bit of time messing around with the carriers.

-Other general comments

It worked like a charm. As I stated above, it took a bit of time to chop. I spent some time dropping a single ball into the feed tube and catching it with the bolt. Didn't chop at all. I heard to bolt go, stall and drop the ball back in. THANKS to Tom and all the people at AGD!

[Doobie]

As I was installing this on a Hypermag, I went about things differently. It took me a total of about an hour to get to the point I’m at now.
Gun: Retro valve PFHL mag. I took the Hyperframe off to remove it as a variable and put the stock single trigger frame back on. Nitroduck 4500-psi mini- reg supplied the air.
Input: 900 psi
Spacer: 1.5 (I used the long startup directions and got the best fit with this)
Shims: 2
Spring: Stock
Velocity/consistency: ? (will test when I have access to a chrono and paint. I was going to sit at a bench at the local store and install it there with access to both, but I ended up being the Charge of Quarters at the barracks that night!)
Results: Stopped on the squeegee but marred the surface of it. I tried the Dollar bill trick (like the Video) it failed. It folded the bill into the Barrel! I’m not putting my finger in there!
Conclusion: Need a stronger/longer spring

Change #1
Put the Medium (cut) spring in. Seemed to stop softer on the squeegee but still failed the dollar bill test. I also remembered that the bolt would only stop at the back half of the breech. Any further foreword than that and the bolt would fully fire. I understand this to be correct operation, as a ball that is half in the feed hole will engage the bolt before the halfway point. (Does that make sense?) I still would not trust my finger in there so I...

Change #2
Put in the Long/heavy spring. I had to turn the Velocity up to get it to fire right. I think if I had a chrono available that the gun would have shot hot. I decided to leave this spring in as I was curious if it would effect the operation of the Hyperframe when I put it back on. If it worked, but the velocity was too high, I could always put in a weaker spring and know it too, would work. Soooo....

Change #3
I installed the Hyperframe. I decided to check the bolt for wear at this time as I wanted to see the bolt before I put the HF on. I have heard of HF wearing bolts, but I have not had this problem. I noticed some metal filings come off of the sear lock up part of the bolt. I assume/hope this is normal during break in. I set the service mode(How much juice goes to the solenoid) to 7(stock setting) and attempted to fire. No fire. Turned Velocity up. No fire. Then I turned the velocity down in hopes it might not be firing due to the pressure on the on/of pin. ( Does the Retro valve lower the input pressure down before or after the air gets to the on/off?) No fire. I increased the service mode to 8, no fire. Then 9, no fire.

Change #4
Reset the Service mode to 7 and installed the Medium spring. It would fire intermittently. Turned the input pressure up and it did not improve things. Then down, nothing. Incrementally increased the Service mode and no improvement.

Change #5
Reset the Service mode to 7 and installed the small spring. Works great, but I don’t know how hard it hits until I get some paint. O.K. call me a coward, I can’t bring myself to put my finger in there...yet.

So in the end I get:
1.5 Spacer
2 shims
Small spring
900psi input
HF Service 7
Stock retro on/off pin
And untested velocity.
I will give an update next weekend when I get paint and a Chrono!

(Side note- I read the post about the leftover pressure in the line so I installed a slide check between the valve and the reg. I averaged about 400psi left in the line after the mag would stop working. The slide check removed this with no problem. The foamie also blew off during testing.)

[WickeDKlowN]

my lvl10 came in not too long ago, and i installed ti but havnt got the chance to test it(I will edit this post when i do) but i noticed when i am pulling the bolt out, about halfway up, i can feel it catch on something. Is this normal, or did i do something wrong?

[lukewmtdew]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

it took me about probably half an hour to guess on the right carrier i think i m using the 1.5 carrier and one shim also i have an original bolt spring in it

-The type of gun you're using it on

automag with serial number of 00147

-Efficiency

we didnt really think about that we got about 600 shots out of a tank that had only 2500 psi in it it was a 48ci tank

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

uuuhhhhh *drools* ZERO breaks with using a tough nelsplat paint bought at mills fleet farm when i bounce tested the paint at 6 ft i was gettin like more than 10 bounces so i was like screw this and stopped so i dont know how brittle the paint was i did the electrical tape trick and it didnt chop

-Any problems you encountered

guessing what carrier to use was hard because a couple of the other ones would just make it leak out the barrel or if i screwed in the velocity untill i could fire it and it would leak out the velocity screw so i dont know what was up there

-Other general comments

when i put back in my normal bolt and power tube setup it would fire twice when i pulled the trigger once i dont knwo what that means

i also dont have a chronograph so i just guessed at the velocity so i dont knwo whatever about that

[Scootyd]

Type of gun: micromag with smartmag valve

time to install initially: 1 hour (had a time choosing the right carrier until I found some new posts.)

time to tune: 3 days and it's still not right

shots / breaks: 2000 / 1 in the barrel (i loved it)

setup: carrier 1.5, no shims, stock spring

problems: even with my shortest spring, I have to turn the velocity up to the point that it vents intermittently and getting down to 250fps is impossible. 285 fps is almost two full turns out when I fall back to the original parts. If I turn the regulator down to the point of not venting, the valve won't cycle. I played a couple of hours (5) with it venting lightly and loved it. The trade off, reliable chopper or unreliable non chopper.


Any suggestions are welcome, just p.m. me.

[AGD]

Call our tech line we probably have to send you a new reg piston.

AGD

[Krazy Ivan]

An update on my mag. I played through the first half of D-Day with it. at least 2000 rounds and not even a barrel break. Everyone I showed was wowed too :D

One problem though, I couldn't get it to shoot above 260fps. I'm running 900 psi into the valve....any suggestions?

[Kevmaster]

heres the Kevmaster's data

Gun: PTP Micro Emag 2000

Setup: Eagle Air 68/3000 adjustable tank with Lapco Autospirit and HALO

The Old: I would chop all the time with my Mag. no idea why but i couldnt stop chopping paint

The New: Level ten's installation was a breeze. took me about 30 mins to get everything in and the velo set to around 275. i used two shims, hte longest main spring and the two ring spacer, and right off the bat, everything worked great

Testing: i put some electric tape on a paintball, put it 1/2 way in the breach and opened fire on it. i pulled the trigger 75 times, pulled the paint out(month old Anarchy--easy to break) and not a MARK!!

i was the most amazed person around. ive never seen anything like it. i am so happy and will be gloating about level ten all day sunday at my tourny



thanks AGD!!

[AcemanPB]

i'm using the 1.5, 2 shims, and the longest spring works good so far

*an update will follow saturday after i play at my field

[ELLAS]

GUN: 68 PF mag with retro valve, AGD inteliframe, PMI 88/3000 tank, and freak system with .689 sleeve.

Time To Install: It took about ten minutes to put it all in and get it to work. I took antoher 10 minutes fine tuning it.
Final setup was: long spring, 1.0 carrier and 2 shims.

I tested Diablo blaze, RP premium, and marbs through the gun. I shot about 2500 balls and had not breaks at all. The paint was about 3-4 months old.

I tried like shooting sideways and the ole tape on the paintball test. NO CHOPS!!:eek:

Air efficiency was a little less, but not a big difference.

All in all this is a great product.

[hitech]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

30 minutes to install. I spent another 60 minutes tinkering.

1.5 carrier (the 2 leaked)
1 shim (2 leaked)
Middle spring (longest appeared to "hot")

-The type of gun you're using it on

Automag Classic PF

-Efficiency

Don't know. It doesn't appear any different, but I have only shot 200 rounds or so and don't have a chrono.

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

Diablo blaze and PMI Premimum that are at least three months old. No breaks or chops. I did the hold a ball part way in with tape and shot it 20 times or so. I could not get a break no matter how bad I short stroked it. :D

-Any problems you encountered

I think that I might like the bolt to vent earlier but adding a shim causes it to leak. I would like thinner shims.

-Other general comments

This is amazing! I called a buddy of mine up to show it off. I have told him all about it before and he has seen the videos. His jaw still dropped when I did the taped ball "trick". He turned away when I put my finger in the breach and pulled the trigger! I did get him to do it after I did. I need to get to the field so I can chrono it, but I believe it is firing at least 270. I can't wait to show this thing off! :D

[METHOD36]

Can someone who works in the upper levels of AGD, like TOm Kaye or someone, PM me please..I have a question for yall.......

[Panzerr]

Update

I found that after putting two cases of paint through my new Level 10 kit that i developed a very slight leak in the power tube from time to time. I removed the o-ring carrier and installed the next smallest size and the leak stopped. Apparently the o-ring "broke in" and was a tiny bit too loose.

[j.t.]

This kit truely is all its turned out to be! I got mine in today and installed it using the quick-install instructions in under 5 MINUTES!!!

Now at this point since it went in perfectly, did not leak, and I did not even have to turn the velocity up, I thought the bolt would still have a significant amount of force.

I was wrong. It was feather light, and I was even chrono'd at 435!!!

I got the velocity all the way down to 240 without even having to change the setup.

Another big surprise to me was that after about putting 300 shots through it the foamy was still secure on the bolt!

I was using the exact setup in the quick-start instructoins.

I am simply amazed at this wonderfull product which has completly changed my entire automag. It no longer chops, it is quieter, it has less recoil, and I LOVE the new and improved feel of the trigger!

THANKS AGD!!!

[RT-Rockin]

Things we'll be looking for:

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

Approximately 10 mins using Tom's fast setup. Fired a hundred shots or so to break in the o-ring then experienced a little leakage. I'm running low on air so I stopped and changed to the next smaller carrier and no more leaking. Fired some more shots and all appears to be functioning properly.

Final config is 1.5 carrier, 2 shims, and the longest spring from the kit. Not chrono'd yet but it appears to be about normal (280 +/-). I'll update this as well after I play.

I haven't got the guts to try my finger yet but it stops on a pen cap and is gentle. I need some more air before I can do much more. Sorry.

Total time start to finish 20 mins with fine tuning and breakdown of the marker.

-The type of gun you're using it on

E-MAG

-Efficiency

Can't judge at this time. I'll update my post after actually playing a few games with it.

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

No breaks. Using Marbs in the yard.

-Any problems you encountered

None

-Other general comments

TOM/AGD! YOU RULE!!!



Rockin


EDIT: I finally chrono'd and I'm getting weird consistancy. Using the RT chrono procedure, I'm getting a hot first shot (around 300-309) and then subsequent shots are in the 260-280 range. I'm not really concerned about the 260-280 range (I was using potentially bad paint) as much as the first shot being over 300. Any ideas? I've checked and searched the forums and all I really see is talk about the reg seat. I just bought this gun used and I went through the valve and replaced all the o-rings. The only one I didn't replace was the quad o-ring as I had an RT parts kit for an EMAG.

[Schnitzel]

number one carrier, 0 shims.

i used a variety of mixed paint, with excellent results. 0 chops! I also did a test where i twisted the barrel to pinch a ball in place of the bolt. no malfunctions.

if there's one thing i can say, its here. (http://www.eventsounds.com/wav/wasawsm.wav)

BTW: this was all done on a HPA minimag.

[Mild 7]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly:

1. Middle spring.
2. 1.5 Carrier
3. No shims.
4. Oil everything.
5. Turn up velocity by two revolutions.
6. Blank fired 3000 psi worth of air out of 4500 tank.

Thanks for Musikman for his patience and input in regards to my level 10 installation and Army's motivation in convincing me of putting my finger into the breech. My actual installation time was 15 minutes. Getting familiar with the instructions and my ways around took about a good hour.

-The type of gun you're using it on is my '98 RT.

-Efficiency

Although I haven't put any paint through it, I'm assuming there is a decrease in efficiency due to a lots of hisses while firing.

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used:

Like I said, I haven't put any paint thru it. But since my finger wasn't chopped off,no holes in the dollar bill test, and the taped up paintball test, I'm assuming I should be ok.

-Any problems you encountered:

Problems encountered excluding what was covered on the installation sheet was:

1. Slight leak from the back of the RT. This was fixed by turning down my velocity by a couple of notches.

2. I can hear an occasional leak after blank firing a few times. But the leak tends to stop somewhere along the line.
On two occasions, the gun will not fire at all but there is pressure on the trigger.

-Other general comments: Let's hope this works.

I will continue to experiment with different carriers and adding shims to it once I'm on the field and have a chrono available for me to have a more precise feedback. So far, I haven't encounter any major problems and it is looking good.

[codeJockey]

-The type of gun you're using it on
Mag 1: Retro valve, Warp body, Benchmark body rail, Intelliframe, SmartParts 12" SS barrel, 88 ci Armageddon tank @ 1000 psi output

Mag 2: Classic valve, Minimag body, standard body rail, Intelliframe, Dye 12" Aluminum barrel, 48 ci constant output Crossfire tank

-How long it took you to get it installed
Mag 1: 1 hour (used the long instructions & did a lot of tweaking)

Mag 2: 20 minutes

...and what your configuration was to get it working properly

Mag 1: 0.5 Carrier, 4 shims, longest spring

Mag 2: 1.5 Carrier, 3 shims, shortest spring

-Efficiency

Marginally less efficient on both Mags.

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

JT Maxim. Over 2000 rounds per mag, not a single break in either.

-Any problems you encountered

Difficult to remove carriers & shims from powertube (but not that big a deal).

-Other general comments

The Lvl 10 is simply a thing of beauty... :D

[j.t.]

***UPDATE***

I just got back from my first day of play/tourney with level 10 installed in my mag. I encountered a slight leak so I moved down to the 1.5 carrier.

After that my mag worked FLAWLESSLY ALL DAY. 0 chops, 0 breaks, and I encountered alot of pinches.

Needless to say my team The Pink Fluffy Bunnies who had been together for one day before the tourney placed 3rd!:p :D

**Edit**

Just recently while i was reffing i decided my mag wasnt being put to good use sitting in my gear bag so i thought "why not try the *newbie torture test*..."

I let multiple newbies try my mag during the day. They were all very impressed and needless to say i got a lot of GREAT comments from them about it. And the best part was i didnt have to clean it after! God only know what kind of paint they were using in it.:rolleyes:

The greatest part was this: Two other refs at my field decided to do the same as me. One has a tricked impulse vision and the other a significantly upgraded autococker.

The impulse vision chopped the first ball and failed to work after that due to paint blocking the eye.

The autococker was having timing problems throughout the entire day.

Lets just say my mag was the newbie marker of choice by the end of the day, and i think some of the newbs already know what their next marker will be.:D :D :D

[joeyjoe367]

I played today (7-20) and I can definatly say that I've never been more happy with my mag than ever before.

I shot 1200 rnds of Great American Paintballs, which were approx 3-5 bounce paint, without a single barrel break, chop, or breach break.

I was having some issues with my warp-feed, and While i was taking out the battery, i ripped up the clippy thingie, so i had to play the last round with a "normal" setup :P Going to have to get a soldering iron out :rolleyes:

One thing that I was having problems with was my velocity changing throughout the day, and having my marker not fire. I have the middle spring now, and 1 shim. I also JUST replaced the reg-seat, so I was wondering what was going on. I guess I'll have to look into it. Perhaps I need a tourney lock or something :P

[Thrilliam]

I have to tell my story... I sold all my other guns to go back to a mag after reading about the level 10...
It took me now 3 days and counting to get the bugs out of my level 10. It took me 5 min to get it together but still having bolt stick problems.
3 shims... 4 and it leaks
bounce back and forth between longest spring and medium.

one break which was during the tape trick to show it off but I think it was because I was using the smallest spring.
since then I have not broken any paint but I have bolt stick problems that have to be ironed out.
Running a 45/45 and have not been able to see how efficent the gun is running...
My outlook is grand and looking forward to shooting a mag again after 7 years...

[AcemanPB]

Minimag with classic valve amd 20oz anti-siphon tank


took me 20 minutes + about 20 more at the field tryin to get it chornoed


first it was 1.5 carrier with longest spring, and it shot fine but when i got to the field i saw it was shooting at 320fps and if i turned it down anymore the marker would not fire, so i switched to the shortest spring and my gun chronoed right in at 280 and stayed there the whole day!


i didn't notice any change in efficency but it sure doesn't give you any warning when your about to run out of air


no chops or breaks and this was when i was TRYING to make it chop, i shot about 2000 rounds of proball + some field paint



the only problem i encountered was my bolt stuck foward once, but i just put some oil throught it and it worked fine the rest of the day


level 10 is awsome it gives my gun no kick and no chops this think is truly amazing (i love my mag)

[brian terry]

guys and girls i put my level 10 kit in the 18 of june at agd.so far iv shot over 25 boxes of paint in it from kickn to diablo.iv had no choping.iv put my gun on auto and still no chop .dont you just love it. im shooting a sfl with ace and level 10 kit and a 68/45 crossfire tank.

[Manuel_FZR]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

15 minutes to install. took 30 minutes to break in the o-ring

1.5 carrier
2 shims
middle spring


- The type of gun you're using it on

Minimag pf


-Efficiency

Same as before.


- Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

1500 Diablo Blaze - no breaks/chops
500 Tomahawk - no breaks/chops
couln´t get a break/chop - also if I triggerd like hell with hopper off ;)


- Any problems you encountered

No problems. Longest spring is a little bit to near the 300fps ;).


- Other general comments

It´s really great! On league day, i had to explain the lvl10 to more than 10 people ;) ... and show them the "finger test" ... GREAT!!!
Middle spring works great in a range from 250fps to 300fps.

[magmonkey]

2 kits
one in a micromag
one in a clasic
-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly
clasic 15 mins #2 carrier 0 shims mid spring (could not get the gun to fire with the long spring?)
micro 15 mins #2 carrier 2 shims mid spring

-The type of gun you're using it on
clasic with retro valve emag body and benchy 2x frame 68 3k flatline set to 850 psi
micro with retro and benchy 2x frame preset48 3k

-Efficiency
slightly decresed not sure on #s yet


-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used
rp advantage,pmi,diablo blaze,and white box generic paint
4000 rds no chops no breaks!!!

-Any problems you encountered
bolts needed to be sanded to fit bodys but other than that
no problems unless having people crowd you and ask alot of questions is a problem :)


-Other general comments
I think the lvl ten kits will give the mag back some of the respect it seems to have lost in the paintball community.... this thing kicks butt

[Dayspring]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly
About 1 1/2 hours between two days.

-The type of gun you're using it on
RT Pro #00462*** #1 carrier, 2 shims, long spring
*** Have since changed to the one that looks like the main spring. ***

-Efficiency
Unknown at this time. Was low on air to begin with.
***Shot about 600 or so rounds through before I was low enough that shooting was no longer an effective deterrent to coming closer to the flag station. 68ci 3000 psi. Shot around 255fps.***

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used
Playing this week
***2000 rounds 32 Degrees Competition Paint (green shell, pink fill) and about 95+ degrees. Nasty humidity. No chops. No breaks. Even under "trigger fanning" conditions.***

-Any problems you encountered
Just took a little while to find the right carrier. After reading the Extended instructions as well as some of the other posts, I was able to get it working.
***Started venting out the back w/ the spring (had the coil cut off) so I switched to the one that looks like the main spring. Works great. ***

-Other general comments
SWEET! I did the "tape on paintball" and it worked flawlessly. I couldn't get the dollar bill one to work though. Bent the bill.
***Went to Skrimish USA. Gun tech was impressed (had to fix an o-ring in the tank) and showed everybody else. (did the finger trick- first time so I was somewhat apprehensive. but I figure- if it doesn't kill the ball, it won't kill my finger.)***

[spacemanspiff]

Took me about a half hour or so to up in my LVL10. Started late one night and had to finish in the morning cause I was tired. I'm using 3 shims and the 1.5 carrier.

Type of gun- SFL e-mag

Efficiency-Seems like alittle less then before

Breaks/chops- one down the barrel last weekend with kickin paint. 0 chops shoting diablo blaze at a tourney today.

Problems- None till today I started to get a small leak but would go away and come back. Probably started leaking cause I was showing it off so much:D. I'm going to oil it tonight and maybe try a smaller carrier if it leaks next time I play.

General Comments- Awsome upgrade I haven't been carrying my squeege at all for the last 2 weekends. Peoples reactions at the tourney today were funny. I heard 2-3 people say they wanted an e-mag or upgrade there old mags. They couldn't believe that the lvl10 works in all mags and is under $100. I even showed one ref what happens when I turn of my revy he was like dude you'll chop. Now his reaction was the best of the day:p Tom you did an awsome job once again and I'll be sure to spread the word everytime I go out and play.

[LittMag]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

Installed ona previous day (about an hour, probably more tinkering time needed now though)
1.5 carrier 3 shims
brass spring

-The type of gun you're using it on

Classic Mag w/ std feed
CO2

-Efficiency

No idea

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

Many breaks no chops
couple month old marbs.

-Any problems you encountered

I had serious issues, I think my spring was too long.
Basically the gun would fire, then stop firing. Sometimes when it didn't fire, it would make the ball pinching sound then reset, sometimes the bolt would just not fire at all.
At the crono I was very inconsistent (but probably because of the cool temps and CO2) However when it warmed up during the day, I would crono around 310-320, turn it down, crono at 285 (the field limit). During one game, the gun would just not fire. Again I think the spring is too long. Would that be the case?

-Other general comments

When the gun was shooting I LOVED it, I love the lvl 10 sound the gun makes =P I shortstroked for some of the AOers there and the gun simply fed a few balls down the tube causing me to double fire.

[jewie27]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

It took about 30 minutes.

-The type of gun you're using it on

Minimag w/ReTro Valve and Intelliframe

-Efficiency
Have not shot paint with it yet.

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

Have not shot paint with it yet.



-Any problems you encountered

None



-Other general comments

I used the carrier with one groove. (There are 2, and one of those worked for me.) I began with the 2 groove carrier but it leaked, so I went down one size. I also used 2 shims.

[ammosponge]

ok, after burning thru a complete 68/45 trying to get the thing tuned, i hauled it down to my local proshop and sponsor, to make sure i could get it tuned and happy in one shot.
time to install: about 1 hour with trying different carriers and all.

carrier used: 1.5 with 1 shim.

breaks: 0 ... shooting 500 rounds of really crappy pmi premium that had been riding around in my trunk, podded, in 90+ degree weather, since the last tourney.
breaks with proshops chrono paint( ancient brittle 1 drop 6-12 month old marbs.) 0. in 1000 rounds. folks we have a winner.

only issue is getting enough velocity. with the middle spring it's 280-310+ and with the stock spring it's 210-250

and with the long spring, it will not fire. so we'll see what happens there.
when i finally got it tuned and showed the shop owner and manager and the bench tech what lvl 10 could do, their eyes got really big and their mouthes dropped open.
"that is a HUGE advantage" was the resounding response as was "there are gonna be a LOT more people shooting mags" they were stunned.
and wildly impressed.
way to go AGD!

[nuclear zombie]

- It took me about 30 mins to install , after fine tuning adjusting and trying different setups it took about 1 hour total.

-I am using it on a Micro-mag RT vert feed

- using RPS marbilizer , and PMI Advantage out of 600 paintballs 0 chops.

-carrier used 1.0 w/ 2 shims

-Had no problems with velocity , effiency is same as before .

- I have had no problems with the bolt at all , I shot 500 yesterday , normally i chop at least 4 - 5 , now I chop/bust none . Very pleased with product , now when I outrun my 12 Revy i don't have to squeegee. It is a very good product I would recommend it to anybody with a mag.

[tat2dhillbilly]

Installed the lvl 10 on my Rt and used the quick start and was up and running in about 15 minutes. I used the number 2 carrier and the middle spring.
On the field i had a few problems with the middle spring, It would sometimes not want to fire so I switched to the stock bolt spring and didn't have any more problems with sticking all day. I didn't have a chop all day using older Nelson Anarchy (pretty brittle). I did have a few barrell breaks (due to double feed I think). The stock spring does hit the ball a little harder but not enough to chop.

I think everyone was suitably impressed by the RT's performance. I really had a great time getting on the trigger and not chopping paint.

[rudy]

I played 2 days at the monster game so I figure I would give some more input. I shot about 500 slam balls, 1000 hellfire, and 200, el tigre. about 1700 shots. I used a total of 14500 psi worth of punches on my fill card for the 2 days. Which is more then usuall I wa unable to split a card this year.

I had 0 chops and only 1 break It was eltigre and it was torn by the edge or the freak insert when it was shot. My batteries died in my revolution about with about an hour left on the last day.

I started with the medium spring and I had problems then gun would shoot fine then just start plopping balls out 10 feet infront of the barrel and some wouldnt make it out of the breach. I thought it was batteries in my hyperframe after 2 battery switches I finally decided it had to be the main spring not the battery. But manny times low batteries cause a similar effect for me.

Overall the event was excelent. I was shootin at 270 to 275 fps with occasional spikes to 279. With the lower kick of the superbolt 2 and the brittle hellfire paint and the electronic trigger. I was able to put my balls on target and get them to break at huge ranges It was easier to keep the gun stable and line up my shots. This was my first time where I never went against a single person or group where at long ranges I felt my aim was as good or better then the other player. I dont really Like long balling but at this type of game when there might be a hundred or more guys at a front you dont always have a good fron bunker you can get into that offers cover from angles. So I picked up a ton of easy kills from people who were wide open but thought at a safe ranges.

[felony]

hey guys.

i need some help!

got he Level 10 a few weeks ago.

finally got to the park

results:

SETUP:
easy to put it all together if you think about it and just dont rush into things.
took my 15 minutes to put in. but quite a bit longer to get it working and still have some problems.

GUN:
minimag, intelliframe, flatline 3k

EFFICIENCY:
have not really noticed any though i havent taken notes on it.

SHOTS TAKEN / BREAKS:
before i had it chroned, i was shooting about 3 year old pmi paintballs from when i started. no breaks. shot about 1000 standard pmi from the field no breaks, but read on.

PROBLEMS OCCURRED:
maybe i am a bad installer, but please read on :]

~~Ok, am on the smallest carrier due to leaks down the barrel.
~~two shims
~~the wierd main spring (shaved)
~~input pressure of about 800psi
i left the park after shooting ALOT to try and get my gun working in the 270fps range. in the end i had the above setup with a very consistent FPS in the 270s range.
I was happy and decided to take a few more shots as fast as i could, no breaks and left the park as it was getting dark.

I got home and gassed up to play with the bolt :] . The trigger was pressurized but the gun would not fire. this requires a increase in velocity for the gun to funtion. an increase in velocity puts me over 280 fps. would a increase in input pressure help my problem?

when i first started to chrono, my pressure was low, a bit more then 700. i had the shaved spring in and when i eventually got the marker to fire (after turning up the velocity) it was shooting way hot, 320s. so i increased to pressure to 800 and am here now. at the park i worked with the other springs as well. the one just longer then the stock lvl 7 spring worked fine to my knoweledge, but i wanted to get the standard shaved one to work.


before i had any problems with just the trigger being pressurized and the marker not firing, i would somtimes experience a short stroke that would fart a ball out at a real slow speed, maybe 20 fps? and because i was firing as fast as i could another ball would come up right behind it and shatter it. this resembles a nasty chop but cleary nothing happened in my barrel or near my bolt. my balls collided in mid air.

any help would be great.

i may start all over next time i got to the park and try again :[
(get my gun working right again and then upping the velocity by two turns)

dan

[Evil Bob]

Changed out the middle spring for the stock spring on both the RT's I'm working on to get them to chrono a bit lower 225-250 for indoor play. Discovered a nice side effect, both RT's now go full reactive with little effort.

Ref: "Turn off full auto, you're scaring the newbies."
Me: "Sure thing."

I hold the marker up to my face and say...

"Full auto disable"

...and act like I'm listening for a response from the marker. Shake the RT twice for good measure.

"Full auto mode disable!"

...still listening intently. Shake it again even harder.

"Damn, it's not working! Here, you try."

...handing it to the ref, he looks at it for a sec and laughs.

Ref: "Reactive trigger?" Me: "Yep, a direct result of the level 10 mod I just put in, it goes reactive without much effort."

Ref turns and fires a few rounds at the wall, after a few tries he gets it to shoot reactive. Ref hands the RT back...

"Real nice, I didn't believe the level 10 hype, but seeing scream through paint like that on full reactive was unbelievible, I gotta get that upgrade for sure."

-Evil Bob

[Brian68mag]

Level 10 came yesterday (monday) 23rd

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly:
No air yet but i had it installed in 5 minutes, really simple. Number 2 carrier, 2shims, medium spring. The 2 carrier has a a little resistance to the bolt sliding, not much but i may have to switch to the number 2 1/2 carrier because it doesnt grip the bolt as much.
(edit) worked perfectly, gassed up, cranked the velocity adjuster up till it fired, chrono'd 280.

-The type of gun you're using it on
Vert feed emag 1728

-Efficiency

Dont know, will edit after i get air(edit, about the same, maybe a tad lower)

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used
Will edit(edit, System x aftermath field paint, 2500 shot 0 chops 0 breaks)

-Any problems you encountered
None so far(edit NONE WHAT SO EVER)

-Other general comments
Very simple install with the regular instructions, should be a big hit, love the bolt too. Kit comes with alot of extra carriers so it will work with every gun :D
(edit) showed it to many people at splatmasters in colorado springs, noone was to into it because it was (still a mag) i was a little upset about how blind people were to it.
I love it, my friends love it. I did demonstrations of it and i put a ball in the chopping position and fired 140 times to i finally gave up because it wouldnt chop. I played a game of hyperball with a non electro hopper and fired wicked fast to show how i couldnt break if i tried.
Guy with a timmy came up to me and said, my gun can do that, ok lets go then, we puts it upside down, ball in breach, trigger goes, BAM paint EVERYWHERE, in the gun, up the tube, down the barrel, seeping out the eye covers, funny stuff, low pressure my ***.

Way to go Tom :)

[ShooterJM]

WOOT! Level ten is here!

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly:

13min 49sec. First try. 1.5 carrier two shims. Stock spring on a 68 classic. Clocked in at 245.

-The type of gun you're using it on:

68 automag classic, standard feed

-Efficiency

Saw no appreciable difference (usuing CO2)

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used:

700 rounds of 3 year old, nasty, dimpled proball and brass eagle. Fanned the trigger over the chronny with revvy off. Zero chops, 0 breaks. For my last 10 shots I cracked them all with my o ring pick. Smeared some paint down the feed tube to slow feeding. Fanned the trigger, the bolt stopped in 8 of 8 instances and shot the paint 9 of 9. This is already 3 year old cracked, dirty paint. The tenth round was so dirty that it never dropped into the breech. Unreal.

-Any problems you encountered

None whatsoever.

-Other general comments:
Great Job! Awesome trigger pull, no kick and no chops! Amazing. I had a crowd around me at the chrony station for 2 hours while I put it through it's paces.

[rx2]

UPDATE
2000 rounds of field-paint, no breaks (at least in my marker).
BUT, some of it was 5+ bounce paint, so it wasn't a great gauge. More this Sat.

[ben_JD]

- About 30 minutes of installation/tinkering time.

- Ended up with Carrier 2, 2 shims and medium spring. [Edit: Actually, when I opened the power tube again, I noticed only 1 shim, so either I shot one out (unlikely) or I only installed 1.]

- P/F Automag with ReTro Valve, Intelliframe.

- Efficiency seemed to take a sharp dive with the longest spring...got better (seemingly) with the middle spring.

- 1/4 case of Competetive Edge (really cheap paint) - no breaks; 1/4 case of Diablo Inferno - no breaks

- Problems: With the longest spring, I noticed that upon pulling the trigger for a "first" shot, it would sputter and the bolt would reset...not great for snap-shooting. This seemed to be alleviated with the middle spring.

I installed this sitting in my favorite store (Paintball and More - Euless, TX) and the owner and one of the other store guys were both impressed. We stood that gun on every end in order to attempt to get a chopped ball...couldn't. We even went so far as to put a old VL2000 (non-aggitating) loader on the 'Mag and couldn't even get the gun to think about chopping.

[snowman]

- Took about an hour to install with the detailed instructions. About another hour to tweak. Anoter or so hour of on going tweaking.

- Installed on my RT Pro, Zgrip, stock barrel and PMI Pure energy 3000, 47cu tank. For testing purposes I was using a coiled remote. Ended up with the small spring, two shims and 1-ring carrier.

- On this tank it significantly less efficient, I primarily play indoor leagues with speed at 260. Around 300 left in the tank, it just quits, I now have to fill after every game, where I could ususally last two games w/o filling.

- Been using 1 year cruddy paint to test w/o any breaks, have shot about 1000 rounds of RP Premium w/o any breaks yet.

- Problems that I have encountered are wierd. During my league play I have to get my tank filled every game. So then I would walk right to the chrono and get the speed going 215, 220's. I set it like that for a reason. I would then play the next game 10-15minutes after that. Then during the game, I'd put about 200 rounds through it, and when I would Chrono off it would be high 250's, low 260's. Comming on the field I would be at 220's, 230's. This would happen every game. I don't totally understand the physics behind cooling tanks and velocity, so I know there's a connection to be made, but I don't know where. I am not certain what to do. Any suggestions?

AGD: you need to use the shortest spring for indoor play.

[PaInTbAlLeR476]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly
It took me about 30 minutes to get it up and running. i am using the medium spring carrier #1 and 2 shims.


-The type of gun you're using it on
68. classic w/ warp nitro duck tank ricochet JJ ceramic and other stuff

-Efficiency
No noticable change.

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used
NONE feild paint(32* compitition)

-Any problems you encountered
None what so ever

-Other general comments
Great upgrade. now all i need is to get enough money for a 68/4500 flatline:rolleyes:

[Fitzy]

Before I get into all the specifics... HOLY $%*#... This is by FAR the best thing to ever happen to paintball. I took it to the Michigan Monster game, and the only time I broke balls was when I ran out of air, and on one of the last 10 shots, two or three balls loaded and were in the barrel, and the ball broke one of the others in the barrel. This mod ROCKS... The best $65 I've ever spent

OK, the details:

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

It took only about 10 minutes for 1st install, around 30 min. total. I used the stock spring, 1 spacer, and the 3rd smallest carrier

-The type of gun you're using it on
Automag Classic powerfeed. Intelliframe, old Armson barrel, 68ci 4500psi nitro, viewloader revolution

-Efficiency

No noticable difference

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used
NO BREAKS/CHOPS IN THE BREACH (see comment above)in 5 cases of paint total. We had 3 level X's and shot Diablo blaze, Zap crap, Nelsplat... a large range.

-Any problems you encountered
There were initial problems with the 1st set-up I had, but I went to a smaller carrier and back to the main spring and it runs great.

-Other general comments
Level 10, squegee not required

WOW...

[SeigneurDeVoodoo]

Ok...let see...first i'd like to suck up to AGD for getting me my kit in less than five days. Secondly I would like to say....thank god for level 10! On to the review here.

INSTALLATION: Ok...while I attempted to set up the gun as best as I could before I had air, it turned out to be too loose...I guess Tom Kaye's idea of snug is different then mine...no big deal. I put everything in correctly set it up and aired it and went to fire...ok no leak but no bolt movement. After about 30mins of crap I just stripped everything down and followed the quick setup guide and did it in 5mins tops...works fine.

FIRST IMPRESSION: I brought it out back and started to dry fire to break in the new O-ring, the neighbors seemed to dislike the fact that I kept on firing the gun but oh well. I was at first alittle scared as to what would happen if I put in my finger...seeing as how the bolt shoots normally I decided to try the ball and tape test. I taped up a slightly old prem. RPS ball and set it in, fired...good fired good, feathered...great. Only problem was the force knocked one ball from the tape and it was sent flying to put a hole through my screen! Ok so that wasn't AGD's fault.

SPOILS OF WAR: Ok I made the short walk to my friends house seeing as he owns a chrono I figured that seeing as he was so close I would setup my gun to the right speed and such for the field saturday. So I chronoed it...299, 283,285,283...that was good enough for now. I honored him with the first string and he blasted off about twenty balls in a moment or so and nodded in approval which he rarely gives. Ok my turn...I shot slow at first then picked up, then tried to chop...*pop pop hiss pop hiss hiss pop pop*...no chops. Ok time to feather it down, *pop pop pop pop pop splurt! pop pop pop* No...did it just chop! I blanky turned the gun to look down the barrel (No...I usually don't but I was going to get pissed.) ...Ok so we both saw paint explode infront of my barrel but there was little to no paint in the gun barrel break! haha! I ran about 250 shots so far and no chops one barrel break...and considering the paint is slightly old and the barrel to paint match blew I was very happy.

I would just like to thank AGD for making another great product, please keep it up i've always had faith in you guys.



-Justin

[Butterfingers]

I am done with my comprehensive testing of the level 10:

Installation: Less than 5 minutes. 1.5 carrier/ 2 shims. Later moved down to a 1.0 carrier. Velocity ~250 with small spring.

First Impression: Wow this thing is great. Its so easy to make the RT go reactive.

Test 1:

Level 10 Test Paint brew... About 200 or so paintballs sitting in my humid garage for 2 weeks open. They were all mishaped and oversized some were broken. Put it in the breach to try to force a break. Pull the trigger around 100 times left a little indent in the paintball but didnt chop.

Shot the rest out of my .692 oversize barrel with no chops or barrel breaks.

Test 2:

The Freezerball test. Leave diablo hellfire in the freezer for 1/2 hr. Remove. Try to force a break. Pulled 17 times on the same ball cut the ball on the 17th pull. Still pretty impressive. Emptied the rest of the hopper with no breaks.

Test 3:

The probablity test. Took it to the feild, impressed alot of people. 2 days over 4000 rounds not one break. Got pulled and falsely accused for full auto yet again.

Test 4:

The VL200 test. Loaded the gun up with the cold hellfire attempted to shoot as fast as possible. No breaks.

No problems except an occasional leak, remidied by going from the 1.5 carrier to the 1.0 carrier.

Efficency:

200-250 FPS. Small Spring, No real change

250-285 FPS. Medium Spring, Slightly Less Efficent

285+ FPS. Large Spring, Notably less efficent.

[dogEmedic]

How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

took about ten min. thanks to the vid miscue made, 1.5 carrier 2 shims middle spring. chrono 299 299 295

-The type of gun you're using it on

warp left mag, a.i.r. valve (intill i get my retro working, please the the tech forum) Warp not hooked up 12v revo on elbow.

-Efficiency

to early to tell about 200 on 1000psi with a little left over.

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

none yet but only had about 100 pro ball. Found some advantage with dimples no chops, the just bolt stopped :)

-Any problems you encountered

none yet

-Other general comments

no leaks that I can hear with this setup, it is a pain to get the carriers out, i found that a old p style nubbin bent straight works wonders at getting them out. Broke out the warp with weak batts, no chops and no double feeding, had a little trouble with double feeding before.

Just tried the finger test, i couldnt stop giggling that is so cool.

[tonyF]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly- Initially nstalled by AGDE in about 30 mins, using 2 carrier, 2 shims and long bolt spring.

-The type of gun you're using it on- Automag 68 with boo-yaah trigger.

-Efficiency- slightly less than standard

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used- none using diablo midnight, cronic and various unbranded rec site paint.

-Any problems you encountered- After initial bedding in (about 500 paint), unless the velocity was turned up I would get a leak in the powertube. Tried removing 1 shim but did not help. Spent last evenings rec-ball (approx 2000 paint)fine tuning. Ended up using 1.5 carrier, 2 shim and long bolt spring. Will test again later as battery ran out on trigger. Also occasional problem when connecting remote coil valve would blow out air from bottom!
Found that degassing, removing valve assembly and refitting would sort it out (until next time). Note when I swapped over to 1.5 carrier, I noticed the 2 carrier had some rub marks on one side.
-Other general comments- I feel happy using any paint in this marker now. Approx 2000 to 3000 paint through it with level 10 and no breaks! What more could you ask for.

[Cannon-Fodder]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

30 Minutes
My setup is #2 carrier with 2 shims and the middle spring set for a velocity of 240fps (indoor field)


-The type of gun you're using it on

Standard MiniMag with stock barrel and a 68/3000 preset tank

-Efficiency

for me there was a niticable drop in efficiency, about 15%

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

0 breaks 0 chops RPS Bigball 1000 rnds
0 breaks 0 chops 2 year old Sheridan (diablo) 200 rnds

-Any problems you encountered
nothing major, because the springs are longer it is more difficult to put the valve back into the body.
I noticed a slightly larger velocity fluctuation +-8fps but it could have been the paint and weather (93deg F, 90% humidity)
and I lost the Foamie during the first couple of games(dont know when realy)

-Other general comments




I think for outdoors (300fps) I would end up using the longest spring and possibly the 1.5 carrier but I havent had a chance yet

my only complaint is with the foamie, I would feel mutch better with a hard nose bolt. At $3 for 4 foamies (http://store.airgun.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&DID=17&Product_ID=213&CATID=6) loosing one every once in a while can add up.

[Arturus]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

Around 20 minutes to install.

Current config tested at 'home' - Longest spring, 1 carrier, and 2 shims.

-The type of gun you're using it on

Rt Pro with a AA Geddon tank.

-Efficiency

Haven't tested it on the field with paint yet, but guessing it's lower than before.

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

Will update.

-Any problems you encountered

The 1.5 carrier seemed snug enough, but I encountered a slight problem (user error). At first after sliding in the carrier and two shims, I couldn't completely screw in the power-tube tip. I quickly realized I hadn't pushed in the carrier all the way through - I applied more pressure to it, but it just didn't seem right.

So I went to 1 carrier, and at this point I figured out that I had to apply more than a little pressure to get it in. It did go in, but had trouble trying to take it out, so I could install the 1.5 carrier instead. I didn't want to damage the oring on the 1 carrier, so I just left it in there. Installed two shims and then the power tube tip.

Had to crank up the velocity - I think 3-5 full turns on the back before it would fire. After the first 6 pulls, air started venting out the back. Fixed it by lowering the velocity.

-Other general comments

Couldn't get the money trick to work properly, but the bolt stopped and hissed fine when I used a straight-shot and a pencil to test it.

Happy with! :cool:

Just need to field test it tomorrow.

[drx975]

Ok first before I get into anything, this thing is absolutely amazing, the one single thing that hurts someone like me(47ci tank) is the efficiency. I havent actually tested the efficiency but it makes sense the way it is engineered that it would be less efficient. :( . No worries, Ill trade efficiency for no recoil (seriously), no chops, smoother trigger, and quieter gun (no one mentioned this becuase it isn't real important but I like a quiet gun. Good for rec woods games).

Time to install:
approx. 25 minutes to get it running as I would like it on the field. I didnt like getting the carrier out (used a flathead screwdriver, a real small one)

-1.5 carrier
-2 shims, havent tried anything else
-Middle Spring

---I haven't chrono'ed but the velo seems to be about 290

Gun Setup:
See sig

Efficiency:
Unsure, to my knowledge it should be less, see bottom note

Breaks/Chops:
None. Not surprised at all, but highly impressed. Just laying a pen thru my pwrfeed and firing the gun stopped the bolt :eek:. My 10yr old sister liked the finger trick :p, but she wouldnt do it herself. I fired the bolt on the same paintball 8 times and nothing happened, and the paintball didnt break in the barrel. It also was an accurate shot, so Im assuming the paintball was left completely unharmed.

EDIT: only tested 200 - 250 rounds of 1 month old 32* competition paint and 6 month old proballs. I have plenty of 6 month old paint that will be tested when I get that chance.

Problems:
None. I imagine the oring will wear out over time to a certain extent and at that point I will have to use the 1.0 carrier. But that isnt a problem.

Other general comments:
I think I have a reason why some people are getting bad efficiency; they are using old paint to prove the power of the level 10. Old paint is usually swollen or deformed as we all know, resulting in a need to turn the velocity up slightly. This in turn lowers the amount of shots you get per fill. Also, you who are getting inconsistent velocity readings are probably also using old paint as well. Some of the paintballs are swollen which lowers your speed, and some are normal which gives you varying results in velocity when you chrono. Try using old paint to chop, then get fresh paint and use that for consistency and efficiency tests.

One last thing. It is MUCH easier to shoot 8 balls a second. I can even get 9 and not have to worry about recoil because there isnt any. Stock frame.

[felony]

Here I am, probably a month after i had the Level 10 and just had my first real day of paintball, yesterday. after getting my problems w/it sorted out last time i went to the field, last nights experience was great.

time to install the first time----> probably around 20 minutes with everything in and about another 40 with the right velocity and tuning.

type of gun----> minimag AIR valve w/ intelliframe and flatline 3k tank at about 800 input psi.

efficency---> slightly lower then before, though havent really tested it

number of shots/ paint used----> at the park we use PMI premium. decent paint i guess. i didnt chop ANY of those. at my home, my good friend gave me a thousand Brass Eagle balls from when we started back 2.5 years ago. these things havent been moved or stored any where close to properly for those years. they ahve say in his room in they're original case. ill try and get a pic of some of these Brass Eagle balls i shot. i shot about 500 of those w/o a break as well. also tried to hang a ball into the breech to simulate a chop and it worked fine for about 25 simulated chops, then i guess it just gave up and the paintball got a little chop in its side. :[
~~~~ here are some pics of the crappy paint i used!~~~~
http://hbsquad.clanpages.com/pb2.jpg

problems--->
i had my fare share of them the first time out. velocity was a pain. this tiem out it was perfect velocity was at 260-270 so i just left it and had fun!

other comments--->
neato product. ADG and staff are great guys and thanks for making a great product. you guys are good at anything you do, tanks, guns, you guys should try to do a BARREL!!! i know you guys can make something that shoots straight!

[rx2]

Update:
1000 Marbs, several pinches, no breaks.

[jewie27]

I got my level 10 upgrade last week and put it in my Minimag w/ReTro Valve and Intelliframe. Then took it over to Warped Sportz in Los Angeles for Chronoing. Shot 300 rounds at 275 fps as fast as possible (fanning the trigger) and tried short stroking the trigger. NO CHOPS!!!!!!!! It cured my problem.

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

30 to 40 minutes

-The type of gun you're using it on
Retro Minimag


-Efficiency

Can't tell if it's any different than before

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

No Chops whatsoever. Used Viewloader paint, orange fill.

-Any problems you encountered

None.

-Other general comments

Just use the carrier with one grove, longest spring, and two shims, it worked for me and didn't leak. Just remember guys, turn up the velocity until it fires.

Level 10 rules!!!!! Chops are history.

[manike]

Another stunning day with Level 10. This time in my nice new C&C. I lent my RT out to some other guys (I think three different people played with it over the day) and had no reported problems, one of them even very kindly shot me with it :) Maybe JanStah or Jonneh will add their own comments.

Anyway the C&C was flawless today. Chrono'd at +/- 2fps. Shot two cases of paint pretty much. No chops or barrel breaks or anything, just lines of paint that got commented on by an IR3 user as 'fast' :)

I was running hybrid mode and ACE on setting 1.

With the extreme because it has ACE also I am thinking about using one of the shorter springs so I can run my tank down lower. At the moment my gun requires at least 850psi to shoot reliably. I'm thinking I should be able to get that lower with a shorter spring and thus squeeze a few more shots from the tank. The trade off to a heavier bolt force may well be worth it since the ACE and halo B are covering the bases.

With a mechanical gun I think having the bolt force as low as possible is best (as per my RT) but with an extreme with ACE you don't have to worry so much. Since the ACE stops you chopping also... I shall be trying out my theory during the week or next weekend.

manike

[P4ULuk]

Originally posted by manike
Another stunning day with Level 10. This time in my nice new C&C. I lent my RT out to some other guys (I think three different people played with it over the day) and had no reported problems, one of them even very kindly shot me with it :) Maybe JanStah or Jonneh will add their own comments.

Anyway the C&C was flawless today. Chrono'd at +/- 2fps. Shot two cases of paint pretty much. No chops or barrel breaks or anything, just lines of paint that got commented on by an IR3 user as 'fast' :)

I was running hybrid mode and ACE on setting 1.

With the extreme because it has ACE also I am thinking about using one of the shorter springs so I can run my tank down lower. At the moment my gun requires at least 850psi to shoot reliably. I'm thinking I should be able to get that lower with a shorter spring and thus squeeze a few more shots from the tank. The trade off to a heavier bolt force may well be worth it since the ACE and halo B are covering the bases.

With a mechanical gun I think having the bolt force as low as possible is best (as per my RT) but with an extreme with ACE you don't have to worry so much. Since the ACE stops you chopping also... I shall be trying out my theory during the week or next weekend.

manike

Look forward to reading the results and copying the set up :D:D

What kind of efficiency were you getting?

Paul.

[Bored383]

okay - here are the results of this automag newbie. setup on the paintgun when I hit the field was the 1stripe, 1 dot carrier and 2 shims. My automag has a carrier leak with the quick start 2 stripe carrier. The paint I was using was el cheap recball, its $40 a case.

I went to my favorite local field today to try the paintgun and the level 10 bolt out. First game of the day the gun worked like a champ, no problems.

Partway into the 2nd game of the day it stopped firing. Pulling the trigger had no effect at all. I noticed that the trigger actuator screw had backed down again. Whats funny is some kid ref noticed and asked me if I wanted to be called out - I said heck no! I kept a couple guys occupied for a couple more minutes just by pointing the gun back at them. Then they figured it out and I got flanked and shot . . . oh well

So back to the staging area and I tear the gun apart to fix the trigger. I used some silicon tape on the threads and when I got it set where I wanted I gave it a crimp with a pair of pliers. Yeah, I know - hack job surgery. But it worked - no more problems with the trigger the rest of the day. I am going to find another screw to set in behind it to lock it in place.

I also stuffed my PGP into my belt . . . just in case

Go to play the next game - I hit the chrono to recheck the gun. Its not firing again - but this time I could tell it was a shim issue. Back to my truck and I stick another shim in. Back to the chrono to test. The automag was again firing away like mad. I put a hopper down range there with no problems. Though I did notice a consistency problem with velocity. I dialed the gun in at ~285 and it would have the odd spike to ~300 and the also occasional drop to ~265. Most shots were within a 10fps range. I verified this on 2 chronos, the fields radar chrono and my own personal optical chrono. If anyone has suggestions let me know - I ordered a spare parts kit and figure I should just replace all the seals in the valve.

On to the next game - airball, ick . . . but I wanted trigger time. The automag hammered through about 400 shots in short order, I tagged one guy and then got tagged myself.

On to the next game - this was in a village field with a fair number of people. I put close to 800rnds through the automag in that game without a hiccup or a bobble. It just worked and flat out ripped when I got on it. I had 2 guys try to dash to cover in front of me and I put a wall of paint up and got both. I was happy ;) later in the game I put down some long streams of cover fire to pin down opponents while some of my teammets manuevered. And the gun worked - I think I got the setup tuned in now.

A comment on efficiency. I seemed to be getting about 200shots per 1000psi. I have a PMI Pure Energy 68cu.in. 4500psi tank on the automag. I dunno if this sort of gas consumption is good or bad or just average. It didn't feel like a gas hog, and that is all that matters in my book.

In the end I had no breaks in the gun or the barrel. The recball paint was prone to being out of round and lumpy so I had the occasional bolt reset - it is really seemless when it does it, I barely noticed them.

[manike]

Bored, the inconsistant velocity is very likely due to the cheap paint.

Paint which is out of round seals differently in the barrel each time and so has more or less friction and sometimes allows air to escape around it and sometimes not. This results in very bad consistancy.

manike

[Top Secret]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

Approx. 5 minutes 2.0 Carrier, 2 shims, long spring

-The type of gun you're using it on

Emag WF Left, 68/45 Flatline, 12" AA Freak

-Efficiency

A little worse, not very noticible with the 4500

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

0/0- 4yo RPS, RPS Advantage Premiums, Diablo Inferno + Blaze, Brass Eagle, Zap Chronic

-Any problems you encountered

Didn't know I had to turn up the velocity to get it to cycle.

I have no reason to carry a squeegee anymore.

-Other general comments

Reduced recoil is very useful and the shot groups seen much tighter.

[banzaimf]

Installation has taken me a while due to insufficient velocity, To date I am still not shooting above 245

The bolt is in a Minimag, serial number 1321, so... kinda old

I have had a few breaks down the barrel, one chop. Paint used has been 6 month old RP All Star (open in the garage that whole time), Hellfire, and Severe Terra

I have been having issues with velocity.

Today was quite probably the best day of paintball I have ever had, Everyone on the field was in awe of a 9 year old mag

[manike]

Banzai, if you have an old mag then you may well need a new reg piston with a higher relief pressure limit. I take it you are not getting velocity because it starts to vent out the back if you turn it up too high? a new reg piston should sort this out.

manike

[Gijim]

Hes knows what hes talking about, I had the same problem but talked to AGD and they sent me a new piston and it cured the problem. You may want to get a new spring pack(I believe that is what it is called) also. Good luck

[Ohms Law]

2 hours to install on ReTro Valve Hyper Mag.
Number 2 carrier
2 shims
Short bolt spring.
Same efficiency as the Level 7.
1500 rounds of Severe Terra, no chops or breaks.

[gibby]

Took about 45 minutes to install without a hitch.
No. 2 Carrier
2 Shims
Medium Spring
Chrono'd at 280
Didn't notice a drop in efficiency.
Around 1000 rounds fired not one ball break.
Using Cobra Eggs, Point Blanks, and All Stars.

Only time I had to clean my barrel is when I fired with my barrel condem on. Other than that, I faned the hell out of it which usually meant major choppage in the past. Not a one! A friend installed his on his micromag, started to fan without his hopper turned on, no chops.

Another surprise was that my RT started to go reactive last night and it was an awesome feeling to lay down a constant stream of paint. Again, no chops or breaks.

The confidence that I have in my gun now allows me to focus more on the game rather than the operation of my gun.

Gotta love the Level 10 baby!! :D

[Bad_Knees]

Took about 10 minutes to install and 45 to tune.
No. 2 Carrier
2 Shims
The spring that has one end cut
no foamie
Chrono'd at 273
Didn't notice a drop in efficiency.
Around 1000 rounds fired not one ball break.
Using Cobra Eggs, Point Blanks, and All Stars.

As the friend with micromag (mentioned in Gibby's post), I had absolutely no chops and enjoyed hammering the trigger. The RT valve responded well and the trigger has a nice crisp feeling to it.

No more short stroking...no more breaks anywhere! It was a great squeegee-less night! Showed the people on the field what Level 10 could do, it definitely changed their views on Mags for good!

[kevdupuis]

I installed mine today:
1 p/f left no star valve # cf30046, reinstalled stock grip for setup and run in. I will be reinstalling the ELCD after I'm satisfied that everything is correct.

2 Install time= 15 min. Using fast install guidelines, I assembled the valve using #2 carrier and cut spring and proceded to wear in o-ring accordingly. Running with 1.5 carrier, 2 shims and long spring.

3 I did the dry firing bolt test first using an old staightshot squeege. Then I tried the the dollar bill test with one of the most beatup 5 dollar bills I could find, you can see light through it, and it worked. "I'll post the pics Deb took if I can figure out how the get the file attachment to work".

4 Paint is fresh Draxus Blaze, 1 and 2 bounces off the paint.

5 chrony speed 278 284 284 286 282 279 280

6 I put about 800 paint balls through the with no breaks in either bolt or barrel. Twice I noticed a hiss in the bolt area, but a cycle of the marker cleared it. This I attribute to leaving the carrier to bolt fit on the loose side, I won't put a tighter one in until I have to.
I also demonstrated it to some cocker, shocker, angel, and even a black dragon owner. There was also a Retro equipped Mini Mag owner there. Although he doesn't have a chopping problem, he was interested in the insurance and light kick.
My over all thought on this, is that it's an excellent upgrade for the mag. KEV

[Papa Smurf]

Pretty quick... Install in 2 mins. 1.5 carrier, no shims, stock spring. Cranked it up and hit 272-278 all day no breaks. I did have one problem though... I found out that I'm not very good shooting left handed. I got so used to my warp that I'd just tilt the mag over and score eliminations. Gotta love LVX though.. Even had 2 people stick their fingers in there. No blowback what-so-ever and since I have a Center Feed Minimag you can understand why that would be a problem.

C/F Minimag
Hyperframe
Freak
Kapp DZ2
88ci 4500psi
Ricochet
Man does this thing hum!

[1_BAD_TAZ]

Over the past few weeks I have been posting for help trying to get my old autorespose to work right with LVL 10 and I finally got it. This past weekend I was playing at my local field and I went up agianst a cocker and a auto spyder the mag with the auto response can keep up. So far I have put over 5000 rounds through with the LVL 10 and have only had 1 break and that was in the barrel not the LVL 10's fault. I can not say enough good things about this. The only down side is my brother wants to get a LVL 10 on his and when he does he wants his auto response back :mad:.

[TooDamnSweet]

Originally posted by Bad_Knees
Took about 10 minutes to install and 45 to tune.
No. 2 Carrier
2 Shims
The spring that has one end cut
no foamie
Chrono'd at 273
Didn't notice a drop in efficiency.
Around 1000 rounds fired not one ball break.
Using Cobra Eggs, Point Blanks, and All Stars.

As the friend with micromag (mentioned in Gibby's post), I had absolutely no chops and enjoyed hammering the trigger. The RT valve responded well and the trigger has a nice crisp feeling to it.

No more short stroking...no more breaks anywhere! It was a great squeegee-less night! Showed the people on the field what Level 10 could do, it definitely changed their views on Mags for good!

Hi, I've heard a lot about you!! You have some pretty good predictions!!! :D

[Bad_Knees]

Sorry to change the subject on the thread.


Well I was just giving a third persons point of view...but it is nice that these things have happened for two very special people...I wish them both the best :D

BTW I need a pic of the both of you in jerseys. Maybe you should have had just arrows on them saying "He's following me" and "I'm lost without her"...LOL ;)

[Bored383]

Just reporting on another day with my level 10 automag

went through a case and a half of Big Ball yesterday. I had 1 break in the chamber. The first such with the level 10 in my automag . . . and I've gone through about 5 cases of paint so far.

But, here is what happened. My 12v revolution hopper died at the start of the game. Electronics in it melted down - the batteries were HOT when I popped them out. So I was pissed (the revvy is only 2mos old) and to keep playing I wasn't satisfied to just shake the gun frequently. I had to start hitting the hopper and smacking it into barricades. I think I cracked a ball inside it that way that once it fed down it just went in the chamber. With the gun gooed at that point I went back to just shaking it to get the hopper to feed. And I also fanned the trigger the whole rest of that game. No more breaks, but a whole lot of the bolt venting and resetting.

The setup again on my R/T valved automag. 1.5carrier, 2 shims, medium length spring. Shoots ~290's consistent with proper paint.

[Tufiremn]

Mine took maybe a hour to put in, and fine tune with diffent on/off pins etc. Efficiency has dropped of a little, though consistancy across the chrono is great +/-3 fps. Accuracy has also improved 10 fold. 0 breaks with various paint for 1500 rounds. This is on an RT Pro with 12" Boomstick.

I went out to a field for the first time, and seemed to be the only player with a Mag amoung to sea of Cockers and a few electros (Imps). The ref looked at my gun and said wow a RT those are sweet guns when they don't chop. So I handed it to him, and told him to rip on it. He did just that, paint was flying faster than I had ever seen before. He handed it back and said dang I figured it would chop. Once he found out it had the LVL10 inside it was all over. Everyone from the owner to a guy with a Vision Imp where drooling over it, and playing with it. Damn I love my RT.

[Spyder BC]

Got the level 10 installed:

I'm shooting a ReTro Minimag w/ Intelliframe.

Using Middle Spring, 2 Shims, 2.0 Carrier.

Works well. I shot ~200 rounds of field paint to test and then some paint that was 1 and 1 1/2 years old (and poorly kept btw). The Level 10 held up on it's promises - even allowd me to shoot at a 90 degree angle for several rounds - resetting on every other shot of course. I DID manage to break one ball though - with the 1 1/2 year old stuff I was able to get a break after hitting it about 8 - 9 times directly on the seam of the ball (which was where it cracked open btw).

So over all - I am very pleased. Accuracy seems to be the same. It's much more gentle on paint. Diggin' the foamie (someome shoulda come up with that years ago... ;) )

Only concerns I have are in the the departments of efficiency, tank pressure, and RT Reactivness. Currently I run a cheapo 68ci 3000psi PMI Pure Energy tank. I think it's preset at 800 psi, but don't quote me. Great tank for the stock Minimag. No too sure about it now with the Retro/Level 10 combo. I don't seem to be getting great reactivity in the trigger anymore (something several other users have noticed, but that might just be my perception as well) and my efficiency is significantly less - I'd say I might be able to get something less than 600 good shots with it. Maybe it's just time to upgrade my tank to something a little more sexy, but I did want to forward along my observations reguarless for anyone that may be in the same position.

Great product, I can't wait to get it on field to play some serious 'ball with it. Thanks!

[midnightcharger2]

This is about the greatest thing to come along besides the automag. Set up time was minimal apx 10 min. Tweaking takes about 500-1000 dry shots. The carrier that you use that doesnt leak will more than likely leak after it breaks in the teflon oring. Downsizing the the next carrier or two (but still use the same teflon oring from the orginal carrier!!!!)will correct the situation. Tom you need to give me some other ideas MY MAG IS MAXED OUT. I have been using a mag for about 7 years now. Wouldnt trade for anything else. Its cool being the black sheep of the group seeing all autocockers and angels and whooping some butt with the proven old school gun. Thanks TOM and AGD Team. Keep the MAG ALIVE

BTW. I forgot to mention on downside (which is a minor thing) There is about 500 psi in the gun after airing down. (shutting of the air supply but still attached to the gun)

Is it the retro valve or lvl 10 that doesnt allow an additional shot to release all pressure from the gun???.blown orings on tank frequently. I have a ungodly large 32 degrees slide check (without quick disconnect, not needed) on the gun now to correct the situation. T

The macro lines I have set up run from the retro valve to the drop foward and on the drop foward is where the slidecheck is. and then the macro fitting is attached to the slide check and runs to the drop foward. What this allows me to do is bleed the tank and allows for removal after removed i can slide the check back to release the air still in the retro valve. Cant find ANS micro slide check anymore???? Any other ideas or future products to correct this???http://

[timbpaint]

The lev6 standard mag is the first gun I bought many years ago and it was great. guys used to run from me cause i could shoot so fast. then i started playing tournaments. gun froze up first game and i went to high pressure. got by with that and numerous other upgades. Barrels, Loaders, new frame, double trigger, you know the story. then i started chopping balls. every game same story. so i bought an angle. awesome gun. then came the lev10. i had some problems getting it to work following the step by step instructions. what it came down to was i had to get a new on/off valve and once i put that in it worked perfect. i shot some 2 year old paint, big ball that would break if you dropped it from 3ft off ground. not one single break. this upgrade is awesome accomplishment and if it had been on the market 4yrs ago i never would have bought another gun. i think the lev10 bolt should be standard on all mags. but i guess if you don't shoot fast then you don't need it. i don't see how you can compete without it.

[darklord]

I'm using a minimag with a level 7 valve, just got the level 10 installed (2.5 carrier, 3 shims, shortest spring), and all I can say is...wow! I stuck my finger in it, and it was a little more powerful than I expected (I definitely wouldn't stick my tongue in there! :eek: ), but I've shot some rounds through it and it's definitely soft on paint! Works wonders. The only thing I don't like about the level 10 is the fact that I need to turn up my velocity/reg pressure so it works.... oh well. Great work AGD!

[ryan17]

Installation-Came with my Extreme E-Mag

Efficiency- I was able to shoot 2 pods and a hopper in RT mode. With about 800 psi left on my 68/3000.

Never Choped, just bounces off paint, I was in a tourny shot PMI premium, 2 cases, not one chop, it's almsot impossible with the ACE in it.

I love it, great upgrade if don't have it already.

[Rob's mag]

how long it took to install....

Hmm ok. Well i work at a paintball store. And i had great hopes of becoming a tech. Aint gonna happen. Got the kit and the first day, i spent the entire time trying to figure it out. No dice. Next day picked up APG's magazine that gave instructions. AHHHH took 20 minutes. I have the 1.0 carrier with two shims and the stock spring. The stock spring wouldnt chop paint but kept the gun within 240 to 295 range whenever i wanted to change it. Still havent experimented with longer springs. No need.

Tpye of gun...

red splash minimag with ANS red anodized reg., ANS drop foreward. still waiting for my X valve :(

Efficiency...

noticed a little drop off but that could be due to the fact of the crowd gathering around me after every game to watch the finger test and the taped ball test. Had em all going nuts over it. So a lot of air went to dry firing on my finger.

Number of chops....

HAHAHA none whatsoever. The day started out very cold then turned hot. Not good for paint. I truly believe i was the only one out there who didnt chop any balls. Total i shot 2 cases out of the gun. Some PMI premium 6 month old dimpled balls, old and new marbilizer, Evil, rec sport, and big ball. Didnt matter what kind of paint, no chops at all. Had some venting when i started hitting a big string of fanning the trigger but no chops. Had 2 marbilizers break about an inch before the end of the barrel but it was because the paint is so bad it was almost square shaped.

problems encountered....

Other than finding out the hard way that following instructions helps. After reading them the install took no time at all.

other comments....

My team is sponsored now by an autococker maker. Can't say who cuz i dont want to loose our sponsorship. But the problem is they were all choping balls today. Now with this new bolt i really dont want to use their gun. Ahhh what a dilema. Hey tom, wanna sponsor a team. Please.....i dont wanna stop using my mag now. Level 10 is amazing!!! Thanks AGD :D

[WaRBladE]

-How long it took you to get it installed

I would say around 20-30 mins. but I was taking it slow making sure I had everything setup properly with the right fit.

-What your configuration was to get it working properly

At first I used a 2.5 spacer, 2 shims, and the middle spring. After firing it for a little bit the o-ring broke in and I developed a slight leak down the barrel. (this is normal and you need to move the next smallest spacer) I then went to a 2.0 spacer, 2 shims, and the middle spring and this setup has worked fine firing over 1000 paintballs.

-The type of gun you're using it on

My gun is listed in my sig.

-Efficiency

I can't really answer this since I have a 88 CI nitrogen tank and can easily go 3+ games without needing a refill but I would assume the efficiency is lower since you need to increase the pressure. This is the case because of the stronger spring and more force that is required to move the bolt forward.

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

I tested the level 10 first in my backyard with the worst paint I had. I had some old paint from summer that I got at a field and never used all of it...this stuff was in a zip lock bag for close to 6 or more months and to top it off I think it was brass eagle. I loaded around 100 balls in my hopper and fanned the trigger. I short stroked at least 3-5 times distinctly hearing the bolt stop on the balls. I only had 1 ball that broke down the barrel and wasn't from the bolt.

When I went to a field I shot over 1000 Diablo brand paint and only had 1 break down the barrel and that wasn't from chopping the ball. I assume it was because that particular ball either was cracked, had a defect, or expanded more than the others for a tighter fit down the barrel.

-Any problems you encountered

No problems so far and I have gone to the field 2 separate times. I shot at 258, 266, and 271 at the chrono with the setup the first time I went to the field. I had only 100 balls thru it and another 100 dry fires. I latter chronoed with a ref and got within 2-3 fps consistency after the setup had around 500 more balls thru it.

-Other general comments

The lvl 10 kit almost turns your gun into another. It makes chopping balls extremely hard and increases your performance because you can shoot faster without having to worry. I recommend getting this kit for anyone that has a mag. Before I had this kit I was consistently breaking a few balls if I needed to do a fast string of shots. You can almost leave your battle swap and jerk squeegee back with your tool kit.

[NJPaint]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

5 minutes to set everything up, but after I aired up and started going I had to change carriers. Took a total of 45 minutes to oil it and shoot enough air through it so it ran nice and smooth

-The type of gun you're using it on

See sig, 2 shims, 2.5 spacer, med spring, couldn't get the long spring to work :/

-Efficiency

Less efficient than the Venturi bolt I was using before this, but barely

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

Started out with brand new 1 week old Marbellizer (really good paint) shot half a case out of it, not a break anywhere (except on the guys on the recieving end)

Then moved to some older no name white box paint... about 4 months old, been sitting in my closet for a while, used it for target practice, shot another half a case, not a single break or chop.

-Any problems you encountered

Since my gun has a warp feed on it once in a while it would pushing against the ball in the breach, putting enough pressure on the ball that the lvl 10 would bounce off of the ball and effectively not shoot. Problem was circumvented by simply ducking turning off the warp, loosening the tube allowing the balls to relax, resetup and fire. Only happend twice and towards the end there were no problems.

-Other general comments

Greatest upgrade ever made for the automag, makes the day so much less hectic!

[rydoggg]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly:
It took me about 15 minutes to install it and one day of paintball to properly adjust my valve.

-The type of gun you're using it on:
Custom MiniMag w/ vertical feed, X-Valve (No. 2 Carrier & two shims), 4500 Flatline, Dye Titanium Barrel, Dye .45 Grip

-Efficiency:
Very efficient...all my shots were very consistant, very straight, and was able to shoot as fast as I wanted to after I adjusted it.

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used:
1000 rounds and one break (I was holding the gun sideways...so I believe the break was my fault and not the bolt). I was using Viper Paint/Venom Series

-Any problems you encountered:
After about 600 shots I was getting a leak down the barrel and is why I adjusted my gun after the first day. This leak is very normal and all I had to do was move to the next smaller carrier/spacer in my gun...I also added 1 shim. I also added the next size bolt spring since it is designed for 275-300 fps. After doing this I had to adjust my regulator to about 600 psi and tighten the valve about 3/4 full. Without increased pressure the gun will either not shoot or will not operate great at rapid fire. This is also very normal...just make sure you increase the pressure in the regulator.

-Other general comments
I will give another report after this weekend...but I think I will be able to shoot as fast as I want with same consistency.

[Josh2Xtremes]

I'd answer all the questions and make all the comments but I won't waste anyone's time. It's very simple. I have an XValve in my "stock" Mag and XMag sn#0109. I have never chopped a ball in either paintball gun in ANY situation, game or otherwise. Shots over the chronograph vary less than 10fps at all times and average + or - 5fps. Both are consistent, as fast as anything else on the market and extremely reliable. I have experienced no leaks or other problems of any kind. Long live Level 10, and long live AGD!
Josh

[pimpnsince1987]

it took me about 10-15 mins to install the lvl 10 (very easy to do). i installed it on a old 93 automag with double trigger and 68 3000ci nitro duck tank w/ old school venturi barrel. i tested it using both classic main body(straight non-powerfeed) and also on a teflon powerfeed. i didn't use my revi at all that day. i got about 800 shots off of my tank. ok here is the good part i had 1 ball break in 3 days using the classic feed and that was with a bad ball (it didnt chop though :)) and i didnt chop one with the powerfeed. i was using pmi premium paint and also worr paint. the pmi was about 3-4 months old and worr brand new. i shot a total of 4000 balls(a case of each). i was easly able to get about 11 to 12 bps. this is the best thing to come out of AGD other than the mag itself good job guys and keep it coming.