Colorado Supreme Court Ruling

[dawump]

I read something this morning which has a knock on effect for paintballers here in Colorado.

Five years ago a teen was skiing in a race when he wiped out and got hurt pretty bad, including loosing his sight.. which is pretty tragic.

His parents had signed a waiver which was required for participation, but they took it to court and yesterday the Supreme Court ruled that a parent CAN'T waive a kid's liability rights!

That means that here in Colorado, a paintball field can't have a secure legal liability disclaimer that will hold up in court. A minor can't be held to a contract if they sign it, and now a parent can't waive their rights. That means that fields now have to cover pretty serious insurance.. which will probably mean an increase in price.

I'm pretty tired of people CHOOSING to do something, KNOWING the risks, making a MISTAKE and then looking around to see who should pay for it! Can't people take responsibility for their actions any more?


Keith

[mykroft]

Or they'll simply stop allowing kids to play. That would suck.


I suspect if that gets appealed any further, it will get overturned. As a Legal Guardian, a parent should very well be able to sign a waiver. This is almost as dumb as that ruling in Denver a week or so ago, where the Judge instructed the jury to ignore the Colorada Constitution, and the US Constitution.

[Jonno06]

if i get hurt doing ANYTHING,signed paper or not....ill take blame for it...we are all in charge of our own fates,u get hurt...too bad

[RT_Luver]

Originally posted by mykroft
Or they'll simply stop allowing kids to play. That would suck.


I dont think they would not let kids not play. the main reason fields use those waivers is so they dont have to pay for insurance should something happen. I believe they should let the KIDS sign it. wouldn't that be good enuf...BUT NO, for some reason a parents signature is ALWAYS needed when a kid wants to do something. they should ban that law if any IMO.

[shartley]

That should not actually change much. Only if field owners get silly about it.

Most waiver are not worth the paper they are written on anyway if pushed in court. You can not protect yourself from any and all liability when you run a business, not even when you HAVE waivers.. that is WHY they have insurance. Think about it…. if a waiver actually protected them the way people THINK it does, why would they even NEED insurance?

Waivers stop ignorant people from suing because they think they can’t. It is a wonderful safety measure for the fields, but not how most think.

Just something to think about….

ADDED:

I dont think they would not let kids not play. the main reason fields use those waivers is so they dont have to pay for insurance should something happen.
Sorry, but that is not correct. The waivers are done BECAUSE of insurance, not so they don’t have to have it. Insurance companies require those waivers. If you play at a field that does not have insurance, STOP! All businesses MUST carry insurance.

[shartley]

Now.. on another matter….

I believe they should let the KIDS sign it. wouldn't that be good enuf...BUT NO, for some reason a parents signature is ALWAYS needed when a kid wants to do something. they should ban that law if any IMO.
I agree! And then we can punish children AS adults when they commit crimes. We can hold them to the same standards AS adults… right down the line... for EVERYTHING! ;)

Simply put, the laws are the way they are for a reason… and a darn good one.
:rolleyes:

[mykroft]

People under the age of 18 cannot legally sign any contract, a waiver is a type of contract (rarely enforcable though) so a kids signature on a waiver is useless. The parent/guardian normally has the right/duty to act as the child's agent in any legal matters (In Loco Parentis is the legal term.)

[InfinatyBPS]

I think it is weird, all the stuff that they say could happen to you and you are responsable. They say that there may be hazards on the feild, so if there is some kind of booby trap that will cut my head off, they aren't responsable because I signed the paper? Thats kind of stupid... Or there are rusty nails sticking out of bunkers and I run into one and I get stabbed in.... well some place that will kill me, they aren't responsable again... it seems more like feilds should keep their feilds better maintained and if there is an area not safe to play, they shouldn't just make you sign that they aren't responsable, they should fix it...

[dawump]

Interesting point made that a waiver is useless anyway that that is why people have insurance.

I'd like to tip that on it's head too.. I mean I think places need insurance to cover damage done by their negligence, but I'd much rather everyone insured THEMSELVES to cover their lifestyle.. and I bet that if all this bull was sorted out overall insurance would drop.

For example. If someone is playing paintball and falls over a breaks their leg they should have insurance for that.. and not bother the field. I bet right now it's 50/50.

It's back to responsibility again. Here's a kicker. I just paid my motorcycle insurance. My premium is an affordable $125 / year... BUT, there are so many people driving here that don't have insurance, then to be safe I need "Uninsured Motorist Insurance" which is another $180!!!

So effectively I'm paying two premiums. Mine, and that pof the dumbass who won't buy his own.

How did it get this way?

Keith

[FrAuStY]

Well the problem is no days you have toooo many money hungry lawyers that will take any case to any court and fight it until they win! I agree.. I believe when you take part in something wether its a BMX race, a fishing tournament WHATEVER, YOU take responsibility for your own actions. I mean C'MON.. thats just like criminals getting away with sueing (sp?) homeowners for personal injury, when they (the criminal) hurt themselves while breaking into the owners house?! Where has the justice system gone? Down the toilet as far as I'm concerned. Its more about money and lawsuits than protecting rights of people. Does this mean I can sue Nissan, if the hub on my truck breaks causing me to get into an accident? Chances are I could find some grubby lawyer out there that would fight my case. Even though its not nissans fault.. the trucks run good for 100k miles. If it was a defect ita happened a long time ago. Anyway.. that just pisses me off to hear about that. Grrr.. now I'm in a bad mood.

[dawump]

Originally posted by InfinatyBPS
I think it is weird, all the stuff that they say could happen to you and you are responsable. They say that there may be hazards on the feild, so if there is some kind of booby trap that will cut my head off, they aren't responsable because I signed the paper? Thats kind of stupid... Or there are rusty nails sticking out of bunkers and I run into one and I get stabbed in.... well some place that will kill me, they aren't responsable again... it seems more like feilds should keep their feilds better maintained and if there is an area not safe to play, they shouldn't just make you sign that they aren't responsable, they should fix it...

Well this is where things got really messed up. Of course, it is the responsibility of a field to ensure that things are "safe" in that they shouldn't have dangerous booby tracks, and they shouldn't have rusty nails sticking out.

The problem is that at some point in time people stopped agreeing on what is "fair" and what is "responsible" and at that point it went to arbitration in the courts to make the decision. That was fine.. Now things just go to court so that individuals can try and find someone to blame. It's a MASSIVE waste of time and money.

Keith

[athomas]

A waiver is a contract that informs person signing it that there are dangers present and that there is a chance of injury. If the operator takes all reasonable precautions to maintain a safe environment then he has maximum protection from the law. That is not saying he will not get sued, but there is less of a chance that a charge will go against him. Even if a waiver is signed and the operator acts irresponibly, he is still liable. You can't sign away liability.

[shartley]

athomas
BINGO! ;)

[Rocp15126]

Yep, AThomas is right. No matter what you sign, if the owner/operator is negligent you can still go after him. (well, you can try to sue no matter what, winning your suit is another matter.)

[rjvemt1]

I suspect if that gets appealed any further, it will get overturned. As a Legal Guardian, a parent should very well be able to sign a waiver. i agree. if this ruling is up-held then, when a parent signs a permission slip for a child to go on a school field trip therewill be two legal ramifications;1, that permission slip will NOT allow medical treatment to be authorized by a non-parent in the event of an emergency, and 2, this will open the school to countless law suites "little johnny sprained his ankle and his permission sip is obsolete so he couldnt get medical help until he got all the way home so we are gonna sue for pain and suffering and, what the hell, throw in some mental anguish" now the government schools are gettin their budgets sued off and i think even a liberal judge will not wan to openthis pandora's box.whhhheewhhhh thats it im finnished.