spectators and paintball

[21caballer]

A few givens to start this post off with. I am talking about tournament paintball. Paintball will grow, and more people will start watching paintball. If you don't agree with those then I wouldn't worry about this post.

Is coaching going to be allowed from the sidelines? What sports do not allow coaches to yell instructions from the sideline? Chess, tennis, most other sports have some form of coaches helping out. I think it would help the game to allow coaches to help their teams. It would get parents more involved with younger teams. Older players would have a way to stay involved. It would add a whole new level of thought. Coaches would have to be given a box or taped off area to stay in but let them yell till there hearts content. It would make paintball more exciting, coaches would be able to organize better pushes, less sitting in your bunker wondering what is going on.

The biggest down side is arguments. Coaches would argue and distract the refs. The penalty for a coach arguing will have to be harsh and it will have to be enforced.

Now we have to deal with fans. Imagine a jax warriors/ dynasty game being played in fl. 500 fans are watching the game. a dynasty player makes a great move into the snake and no one on the jax side notices. a chant goes up from the fans "snake ,snake, snake" what are the refs to do start pulling jax players? How do you stop fans from yelling? If you punish one team why not send out some fans to 'help' the opposition.

I do not see a way to stop fans from yelling. If the fans are yelling you might as well let one of them be an offical coach, whats to stop him from being a fan?

Just a few random non level 10 thoughts for you guys to push around! sorry if the spelling or punctuation is a little off i realize this so save yourself a post.

[Miscue]

It's kinda the responsibility of the back player to do that stuff...

Besides, coaches don't help during the game... so much as give plan of attack before game... during time-outs... etc.

[hitech]

Originally posted by 21caballer
I do not see a way to stop fans from yelling. If the fans are yelling you might as well let one of them be an offical coach, whats to stop him from being a fan?
I have wondered exactly that. What are the rules? If it is against the rules, how do they inforce it? Seems like a great idea to me. :D

[Troy]

Sideling coaching takes away alot from the game. It makes if difficult to make a move without anyone knowing. It allows for teams with poor comunication skills to overcome it with a player that cannot be removed from the game. I believe the nppl already has rules inplace that cover this issue, but it has been awhile since I have read them in detail.

[davidb]

Funny that you commented on your own spelling. You didn't make a single error, actually (punctuation's another story).

Maybe if there were two classes of games, one with coaching and one without? You could have all teams do some of both, or have two divisions. Just a thought.

[Ov3rmind]

I would hate someone coaching my team during a game. I think the decisions should be left to the players and no one else. Would you rather have someone coaching you on the side of the feild, or work out your strategy in the game with the rest of your team?

[hitech]

Originally posted by Troy
I believe the nppl already has rules inplace that cover this issue...

I don't understand how this could be inforced. If it is against the rules and the "offending" team is penalized, then you just "help" the opposing team. If they just "ask" you to leave, then get as many people as possible and keep the "instructions", such as your about to get bunkered, to a minimum. It seems unenforcable to me. :(

[hitech]

Okay, I had to look. Seems to me there are some "problems" with the NPPL rules. You can be penalized for a spectator giving you instructions:

12.32. Team members and associates of the competing teams who interfere or communicate with the play of that game will immediately receive a penalty as if a player "played on" on the field and will result in the removal of one or more players from the associated team.

On another note, it's no wonder there is a "cheating" problem in NPPL tournaments. The rules for playing with a hit have gone backwards since I last reffed a tourny. When I last reffed, the player was responsible for insuring they were not marked. If you shot AT ALL WHILE YOU WERE MARKED you were penalized. Penalities were less for "un-obvious hits". I see it's gone back to the "paintcheck, paintcheck, ref, paintcheck" and keep on shooting. :rolleyes: And I can't see why anyone would EVER try to determine if they had an "un-obvious" hit. :rolleyes:

For the curious, here are the rules I am referring to:

10.06. Players with obvious hits in areas which are not easily verifiable, such as the back, may continue to play, but must immediately call on a teammate who can easily verify whether or not the paintball broke to indicate whether or not such player was eliminated. The teammate must respond immediately, and if the hit player was eliminated, he must cease play, signal his elimination and exit the field pursuant to the provisions of this Section 10.0. Failure to call on such teammate for verification or failure of such teammate to respond immediately constitutes playing on by the hit player. If no such teammate is available for verification, such player may continue to play, but must immediately call for a paintcheck by a field judge. Failure to call for such a paintcheck immediately will constitute playing on by such player.

10.1 UNOBVIOUS HITS

10.11. Un-obvious hits are those which impact and break on players or equipment in those areas defined as being not easily observable and those which players receiving the same give no indication or knowledge of them having occurred.
10.12. Players with un-obvious hits will be eliminated but will not be penalized.

[ben_JD]

In my most recent tournament, sideline coaching was allowed without restriction. Do you know something? It didn't make much of a difference. So many people were yelling at so many players that you just tuned it all out.

Sometimes, it may help, but I don't think that it will be the wholesale exclusion of stealth and tactics as some of you fear.

[Kevmaster]

in the ACTS(Nor Carolina, Virginia), coaching is allowed, but only in the finals. players are pulled if there is an obvious move to help a team from a fan/group of fans. however, this does not happen often at all

[Ultimator]

Originally posted by hitech
10.06. Players with obvious hits in areas which are not easily verifiable, such as the back, may continue to play, but must immediately call on a teammate who can easily verify whether or not the paintball broke to indicate whether or not such player was eliminated. The teammate must respond immediately, and if the hit player was eliminated, he must cease play, signal his elimination and exit the field pursuant to the provisions of this Section 10.0. Failure to call on such teammate for verification or failure of such teammate to respond immediately constitutes playing on by the hit player. If no such teammate is available for verification, such player may continue to play, but must immediately call for a paintcheck by a field judge. Failure to call for such a paintcheck immediately will constitute playing on by such player. Now what the heck? If you get shot in the back your opponent must be directly behind you or at an angle that is towards your back. You can get shot in the back, say "Check me 'insert teammate name here' and shoot the guy that eliminated you? Who came up with these rules?

[21caballer]

I was thinking of the future when crowds are much larger than they are now. Think about 5 years from now. A crowd of 500, or heck just for fun playing in a stadium in front of 30,000.

As it stands right now it seems that coaching from the sidelines can be stopped.

I agree coaching won't help much the noise from the fans and such would be to great to yell over.

[MiniMag66]

If paintball did become a major televised sport and coaches were allowed I wouldn't want some rich idiot coming in who had no idea what paintball was trying to coach my team. Just a thought...:cool:

[shartley]

Yes, there are some major problems with the NPPL Rules.

Also, 10 – 20 people yelling is much different than 30,000 people… two different situations.

Almost every sport has sideline coaching from the fans or family members (at an amateur or scholastic level). I know it happens all the time when my Son plays Soccer. Encouragement is fine, coaching is not.. and coaching parents are first asked to stop, then if they continue they are asked to leave, and if they don’t leave they are REMOVED. Seems pretty simple to me.


If paintball did become a major televised sport and coaches were allowed I wouldn't want some rich idiot coming in who had no idea what paintball was trying to coach my team. Just a thought...
I don’t see that happening.. Owning, maybe… Coaching, no. Coaches are usually hired by the team, player, or team owner (depending on the size of the team or sport).

[demonguy8]

I think the nppl is trying to be politacally correct in its own rules that they no longer work.....
Simplify it, If you play on with ANY hit you AND A TEAMATE are out.. simple, to the point, and will screw your team over for your selfishness..

As for sideline coaching... until this sport gets Great amounts of fans spectating.... sideline coaching will be a BIG problem, as it will allow teams with poor communications to overcome a team that is better...

I would also say that Im not a fan of the pulling a player if a member of the audience sideline coaches... It leaves room for some "devious" tactics (ie have your friends go to the game and coach the other team till a player gets pulled)*the above may only work once a tourny, assuming the refs pay attn to the who is coaching, but thats one less game you had to give your best effort for..*

[Temo Vryce]

I can remember at skyball earlier this year when people were coaching some of the teams there, a few people I knew there were just shout out jibberish to try and keep things fair. Some other people thought it was a great idea but some others were getting upset at them. They didn't care though, they prefered to see a game played fairly on the field than to have someone off the field saying that the player on that bunker is reloading and you can rush him.

Sideline coaching Bad.
Playing fairly Good.

[hitech]

Originally posted by shartley
Yes, there are some major problems with the NPPL Rules.


Ah, come on, I know you have more of an opinion than that! :) I was surprised to read the rules for determining hits/eliminations. I haven't been involved in any tournaments since right before the NPPL started. I remember the rules progression that cumulated in the rules that continuing to play with a hit resulted in a penalty. THAT is the way it SHOULD be, IMO.