Autocockers or Automags

[snwbrdr913]

Okay, you got a stock cocker, and a stock mag. which would you choose?

[RT_Luver]

mag ALL THE WAY

[CenterFire]

Whoa! I never would of thought of a Mag vs. Cocker thread :rolleyes:

I'll just say I voted for Mags and leave it at that.

[Potatoboy]

http://www.timewarp-toys.com/troll.jpg

[mykroft]

Well, straight stock, I'd go cocker. It handles CO2 better, and I like the stock trigger better (Oh, and it's a 45 frame).

[Will Wood]

LOL...


Of course MAG is going to get the majority of the vote on a Automag forum.

[Spaceman613]

http://www.spaceman613.net/troll.jpg


Potato... heheh looks like we think alike, ive been using this pic as a joke for a while now.....

[chris99506]

well you could get a cocker if you like spending all your money on it and spending more time at the field fixing it than playing with it, go mag all the way.


-RT mag
-12" freak AA front
-agd flat line system 68ci 3kpsi
ricochet 2k loader......:D :D :D

[Laxpunk2006]

I'd go with that autococker. Autocockers run great out of the box and are very upgradable. And Chris don't say you'd spend more time fixing it then using it. The only time I have ever had a problem with my autococker is when my hopper jams. My captain thinks the same thing as you but his mag is constantly in the shop and he's been using his autococker which works flawlessly. As long as you don't mess with it too much an autococker will be extremly reliable. You treat it well and it will do the same in return.

[InfinatyBPS]

Cocker, better trigger stock, IMO looks cooler, comes in colors, standard 45 grip frame...

[manike]

Mods, I think you should delete this.

They have clearly forgotten the 'Pie' option in the poll ;)

manike

[SlipknotX556]

Yhea where is pie on that poll? YOU NEED PIE!!!

[liigod]

gimmie a cocker anyday of the week.

[Vegeta]

There is no option for pie. I leik pie.

WHERE IS TEH PIE!

[Polishpickles451]

wow many more people then i would have expected are voting cocker. it is true that they run nicely on co2 outta the box, and are upgradeable...but mags can have just as many upgrades, with less hasstles, smaller size, and very good and reliable performance without all the moving parts.

[Danny77]

Your asking in the wrong forum...try asking a forum that isnt all about one or the other.

[Aliens-8-MyDad]

do what tom says, buy both and decide which you like better, also how could u forget to put pie in the poll!? :eek:

[InfinatyBPS]

Originally posted by Polishpickles451
...but mags can have just as many upgrades

That made me LOL hahaha...

[InfinatyBPS]

and Aliens-8-my dad... ur sig pic is very disturbing...:eek:

[snwbrdr913]

Id would say mags just because... wait... never mind.

[luke]

What's Co2?:rolleyes:

PIE,PIE,PIE,PIE,PIE,PIE,PIE,PIE,PIE,PIE!

[DiRTyBuNNy]

forget Pie..I want cake...ooohhh....aaaahhhh....Ice Cream cccccaaakkkkkkeeeeeeee!!!!!!

[FutureMagOwner]

i put :Well... it depends what position om playing and blah blah blah


because i like both equally and saying one over another wouldnt be true for me

[paint magnet]

Ok, cockers may work great if you don't mess with them, but who on this forum will honestly buy a gun and not go home and take it apart that night?

[snwbrdr913]

I agree.. one the best things when you get a new paintball gun is to take it all apart then put it back together. Im sure many ppl buying there first cocker and trying to do that would end up at a shop the next day getting a guy to help thim.

http://pbstar.net/pbstar/airsmith/review/autococker/parts.jpg

Isnt that nice

[MrShutter]

AUTOMAG

[RT pRo AuToMaG]

please don't start a mags vs. cocker battle again. i do prefer mags, but each marker has its own advantages and disadvantages. the list just goes on and on. mods please close this b/c i know where it's going.

[DiRTyBuNNy]

I've had mags..I've had cockers..I don't know what it is but sometimes i just think about having a cocker again...but it's timing it that drove me nuts..

[TRIAD]

How did timing it drive you nuts, once mine's set, I don't have to time it ever, unless i replace a part like cocking knob or three-way

[snwbrdr913]

okay....

[SqueegeeKid]

I'd take a Talon over both of em.

[MagDog68]

Originally posted by SqueegeeKid
I'd take a Talon over both of em.

OK Squeegee - I want my ReTro Valve back then!

BTW - Didn't anyone notice the word "stock?" All I hear from the Cocker camp is what you can add to it. I want something that works out of the box!

~Fred

[SqueegeeKid]

That was blatent sarcasm, but im sure everyone but the slowest AOer got that. :p

Actually my friend has a bone-stock cocker, cept the barrel and i like the way it feels. I've always liked the slide trigger for some reason. It is a nice gun, but if i were to buy a Cocker, i'd pick up something a little more special

[emericken]

I've been disputing if i want to buy a mag er cocker too, basically i think like this, ya i could get a cocker and sure they are tempermental but if i buy from a local dealer with free labor they can clean and time it, but if it breaks on the field im up poops creek, so if i bought a mag itd be simple and reliable but not as easy to customize and make high performance, but my real problem is would i be able to start entry level tournies and then after i get good there move up even more?

[than205]

People keep forgetting that bone stock the mag "can" shoot faster than most highly modified cockers. What I mean the AIR valve will easily exceed the seeming limit of 11(?) bps that most if not all cockers are mechanically limited to.
What I will conceed is maybe it is easier for the untrained to shoot faster on a cocker.
Also, if it's your bag. It's easier and more likely to have a personally customized look with a cocker. (that will change... C&C)
And finally, the backblock on a cocker causes a trance like state. Which, we all know makes us want to buy one.

I would suggest the Palmer Blazer. It goes faster than most if not all cockers and has backblock to trance the competition. The only downside may be that you will not be able to make really pretty. That is if you dont choose a mag.

[snwbrdr913]

Actually the stock 'mag reg/valve thingy can only has a fill rate of 9 b.p.s.....

[mykroft]

The stoc mag valve's max ROF without shootdown is 16bps, not 9. 9 is as fast as most people can shoot on it.

Note that 11bps mas a mechanical limit for stock cockers back in the days of the 98 cocker, the 2001/2002 cockers are mechanically much more advanced, with non-slotted trigger plates, lighter backblocks, larger air chambers, smoother rams and shorter throw 4-ways, all of which contribute to a higher mechanical limit to the speed. you are looking at 13+bps limit on a 2002 cocker. Since you aren't going to outshoot either of these limits on a mechanical, non-reactive trigger, it doesn't matter.

Out of the box, I vote cocker, all you need to do is add a bottomline, and it's more tolerant of CO2, if you want to spend a little more, like $100-300, your best bet is an upgraded Automag or stock RT Pro, if you want to spend lot's o'cash on a mechanical marker, an Evo, DYE or Eclipse cocker is IMHO the best mechanical marker on the market (Eclipse & DYE hinges are even better than Intelliframe/RT combo in my opinion).

Blazer is overpriced, and while it may be faster than a 98 cocker, it certainly isn't any faster than a 2002, especially with it's horrible stock trigger (Stiffer pull than a spyder)

[luke]

so if i bought a mag itd be simple and reliable but not as easy to customize and make high performance


Get real! The RT valve is the fastest valve on the planet, and it can be proven. That's not high peformance?
:rolleyes:

You can't customize a Mag? You obviously don't get out much..........


i buy from a local dealer with free labor they can clean and time it,

This I don't get. Why would you want to rely on someone else to work on your equipment.

[Chigga Meat]

removed offensive post and banned him - only because he is new not forever - cphilip

[cphilip]

Ok newbie your not even going to get a warning.

Five days ban for you.

[Koosh]

I know it isnt a Stock cocker... but there are videos of suped up Merlin Race cockers doing 15+ BPS with and the halo b.

I have owned both many paintball guns throught my life... from a model 98, piranha, minimag, race cocker, impulse, and now my emag...

My cocker was the thing of legend... I was a cocker newbie when I got it, so it was broke down alot for the first month or two... after that, when I started upgrading it, and I actually knew what I was doing, the thing RIPPED!

My minimag was the perfect gun... small, tight, quiet, fast, and accurate. In fact, that is the reason I shelled out even more money for the emag, becuase of the feeling my mag gave me when I was firing it... I had my mag for 4 months before outside debts forced me to sell it (damn car insurance) that was one of the saddest days in my life :( ... Oh well...

Anyhoo... a stock mag vs. a stock cocker... well, the only advice I can give you is to try them both out... they both work good enough on CO2, but you should switch to nitro no matter what... I think you should just buy a model 98, and get a nitro tank, then save up for the mag or cocker again. Just go to your local feild, and try them out... mags are for some people, cockers are for others... the debate will never die.

[FooTemps]

Originally posted by TheFlamingKoosh
I know it isnt a Stock cocker... but there are videos of suped up Merlin Race cockers doing 15+ BPS with and the halo b.

Well, I know the emagnum isn't a stock emag but there are videos of it doing 22+BPS and doing 30CPS. I mean, the 30CPS emagnum outshoots every nitro tank except for one...(I forgot which tank don/butters used)

[Koosh]

True, the suped up emag will out fire the suped up cocker... but hey, differnt strokes for different folks...

[snwbrdr913]

actually E-mags that are sold to the public have a limit of 13 b.p.s on them for full auto and I can shoot faster doing semi on an STO than on a emag

[blackmag3]

am i missing something cause i would bet money that emags dont have full auto. and i'd so love to see you try to outshoot an emag with an sto. just my opinion and why would the emag be only able to do 13 bps when an rt can do almost twice that?

[TRIAD]

No offense snwbrdr913, but I'd like to see you get 13+ bps on a mechanical STO. Do you realize how fast your finger would have to be moving? I mean an electro, sure, but STO, no way.

[Jonneh]

While an admirable quality, a high rate of fire is not the one thing that people want with their gun. From what I hear, the cocker, while a terribly complicated mess of hoses, air chambers, regulators and masking tape (http://www.digitalbrain.com/Jonneh/Cocker.swf?verb=view), is very consistant and works nicely on co2.

I intend to own both, and thus I end this trolltacular post

http://www.digitalbrain.com/Jonneh/climb_lobster.jpg?verb=view

[Miscue]

Originally posted by snwbrdr913
Actually the stock 'mag reg/valve thingy can only has a fill rate of 9 b.p.s.....

? You can easily do 13 with a Hyperframe... although it can cycle beyond that.

[Miscue]

Originally posted by snwbrdr913
actually E-mags that are sold to the public have a limit of 13 b.p.s on them for full auto and I can shoot faster doing semi on an STO than on a emag

Stock Emags do not have full auto. They are capped at 16bps - semi.

13+ bps on a cocker? Make sure you donate the hyper-tensile tendons in your trigger finger to science.

[FutureMagOwner]

Originally posted by FooTemps


Well, I know the emagnum isn't a stock emag but there are videos of it doing 22+BPS and doing 30CPS. I mean, the 30CPS emagnum outshoots every nitro tank except for one...(I forgot which tank don/butters used)


i beleive they were using a completly open flow scuba tank and used a system x screw in one time and surprisingly it worked

[snwbrdr913]

actually at my field a guy with a mini black magic hit 16 b.p.s

[than205]

I don't even know why I brought up the BPS thing.
I have come to totally dislike the BPS thing.
I want to see someone do the numbers they are claiming at a sustained rate. Meaning, a string of two balls being fired based on a twitch of your finger that figures out to XX BPS is not really a good measure to me. It seems to me that there should be an agreed number of shots for a sustained rate to determine whether you have a super finger/s or not. I don't care if it's 10 balls, but definitely more than 3.

Back to the origin of this thread.
Use both. Learn about both. Make up your own mind.
Weed through the hype. (a thought for myself also for bringing up the BPS thing)
Buy both if you that's what you want.

[FooTemps]

Well, lets see... I own a mag and I'm part of AO. I've fired a lot of damn nice cockers but I'm loyal so I FINALLY decide to vote... AUTOMAGS!

[FooTemps]

Originally posted by snwbrdr913
actually at my field a guy with a mini black magic hit 16 b.p.s

I've seen a guy with a tricked spyder fire faster than that! lol.... Trust me, 16 bps is pushing the physical limits of a cocker. It's hard getting it up that high

[Micewheelz72]

Id take the mag just for the simplicity, but thats just me.

[FutureMagOwner]

things like rams and the like can increase how fast the cocker cycles to a bit faster than 11(something around like 20 i think) but that doesnt matter because the fastest you can shoot is around 13 and even if you can shoot that fast doesnt mean you need to

EDIT just thought iof this after i hit the button: its like having a 38673867 horsepower engine that is practically weightless and only going 60mph (lol i just made up those #'s so dont take the #'s to realistically)

[chris99506]

cockers are money pits and for the first few months that you own it you will spend more time fixing it on the field than playing with it. if you dont get a mag or a cocker get a palmer blazer, they are like cockers only they don't suck

[rehme]

what do you think so going to be highest one on a automag site but mag all the way but i do have to admit i like cockers also

[MagNumPI]

A stock mag kills a stock cocker hands down, no ifs ands or buts about it.

And to make a cocker preform like a mag you need to dump some hard cash into her.

[snwbrdr913]

Shot a mag, loved the mag, shot a cocker, SOLD THE MAG AND BOUGHT A COCKER..... or at least i am

[strongboy2005]

Stock automags have no competition with stock autocockers. I mean come on it's a beginners gun that's almost as good as a tippmann vs a tournament level gun. Look at the 2003 autocockers, there is not even a comparison. A "stock autococker" these days is not like the ones of yesteryear. Every year WGP beats itself in style and preformance - at this rate a "stock autococker" will be as good as a freeflow. Stock automags have remained unchanged for 10 years. I mean if you had a Lvl 10, intelliframe, and a retro valve then it would be the equivalent of a stock 2003 WGP cocker, but if you're referring to a crappy old lvl 7 standard feed mag then SORRY, no contest.

[darklord]

Mags all the way! And by stock mag do you mean stock emag, stock RT/RT pro, stock classic...?

[InfinatyBPS]

Omg, please stop bring back old threads i mean god, its like 5 months old, its OVER!!!

[strongboy2005]

Originally posted by darklord
Mags all the way! And by stock mag do you mean stock emag, stock RT/RT pro, stock classic...?
i was referring to stock classics

[shartley]

Originally posted by strongboy2005

i was referring to stock classics
Why do you insist on comparing old mags to NEW cockers? You need to compare NEW Mags to NEW Cockers.

Oh… that would blow your arguments out of the water, wouldn’t it? ahhhh

Strong, I will ask this AGAIN….. if you have such an aversion to Mags and AGD, please stop posting on AO. I am sure you would be much more happy on a forum that caters to the types of markers you enjoy and think are best. AO is a Mag forum, owned and operated by AGD and its members are made up of mag owners, admirers, and at least those who respect them. You seem to be none of the above. It is like becoming a member of a Mustang Forum and every post you make is anti-Ford and anti-Mustang…. You would be run out on a rail…. Thus far, that has not happened here on AO yet.

But I honestly feel you are only here to get attention and cause problems.

Oh… and I second the issue about bringing up OLD Threads. You seem to be digging them up a lot lately, just to post anti-Mag posts. Please stop.

[Muzikman]

It's funny, I have been around this sport for 10 year now, 8 of which I have followed paintball over the Internet (Yeah, my TIP number is 617 I beleive). This is the number one asked question over that time, and I think this is the best answer you can give. BUY BOTH, USE BOTH, LOVE BOTH.

Yes, I own ADG products, yes I hang out at all the events with the AGD/AO people. But, I shoot my cocker over 90% of the time, and the funniest thing, none of the AGD/AO guys ever give me or my cocker grief.;) What a great bunch of people...

[AutoMaggot]

Let's see... hmmmmm... In the past year and a half, I've owned:

**A Standard Feed 68 Classic (KAPP Frame, foregrip)
**ANS Blue-Green-Fade GX3
**Purple-Black-Fade Alien LED Angel
**Left-Feed Polished E-Mag
**STO Cocker (Belsales overhaul project :-) )
**Classic Intimidator
**Some lame custom WGP mini-cocker that didn't work
**A 2K1 Impulse with all the Worm goodies
**A Spanky Sandridge Cocker
**A KAPP K2 Flame Cocker
**A 2K1 Impact Angel...

... and now I've got a 2K2 LOE Freeflow with all the new crap from Pro Paintball... and I've kept a polished-up 68 Classic with me just about the whole time...

Why? Because for some strange reason, I just love they way they shoot. I guess its just personal preference. Take it from me... I'm the original gun whore.

[strongboy2005]

I own an automag and an autococker. After playing with the cocker I know what I've been missing out on. BTW this thread was a kid that was comparing a classic mag to a new cocker, and that's why my post was so agressive. Sorry if I offended anyone with my opinions.

[paint magnet]

I'd say get a Blazer and have the durability of a mag with the trajectory of a cocker.:D

As for me in the past year, I've had a Tippmann 98 custom with way too much crap on it, a PGP, a P-68 AT, a cocker, an Imp w/o vision, a stingray, a pt xtreme, a sl-68 II and my Phantom. I'm trying to sell everything but the phantom. As for me, I like cockers a lot but the automag is a very worthy competitor and it is simply a matter of personal preference in my opinion.

[TrickedCockerMan]

I agree with strongboy all the way. I have playd with both cockers and mags, but i only one 1 for 1 important reason. Cockers are just all around better guns. Sure if you compare an emag or an rtmag to a stock autococker, which is a better gun. Humm...let me think. When u become realistic and compare a classic mag to a stock cocker their is no comparison. Stock mag i can get like 6balls a second, stock cocker 10balls a second. As for pnumatics and timing once their set their set, u dont have to mess with them until you upgrade them. If ur at a field playing with ur cocker and it dose happen to break, u think not a single person there will know how to fix it. I have never had a problrm with my cocker at all. The only thing i dont like about them is the cocking rod must come out to change the velocity. Even IF the cocker did have an occasional problem i wouldnt care because cockers have much better performance stock and upgraded. I vote cockers.

[strongboy2005]

The simple fact is that everyone ends up owning an autococker. Very few will ever own an automag (in comparison to the vast number of cocker owners).

[shartley]

Originally posted by strongboy2005
The simple fact is that everyone ends up owning an autococker. Very few will ever own an automag (in comparison to the vast number of cocker owners).
This is NOT true. LOL Not everyone ends up owning an autococker.... but you know so much with your years of experience. Next you will be trying to tell folks that Spyders are better than Mags as well, since after all, they outsell Mags too.

I am sure you have not read my response to your posts in Tech, but I will mirror it here briefly…. I advise you stop trolling, or I will be forced to show you what a Troll really is. Your ignorance is starting to really get annoying.

AUTOMAGS.ORG is the Official AutoMag Owners’ Group. If you don’t like Mags, or own them, or even have the common sense to not bash them every time you post, feel free to find a more suitable forum to be an active member of. I am sure everyone, to include yourself, will be much happier.

[strongboy2005]

Originally posted by shartley

This is NOT true. LOL Not everyone ends up owning an autococker.... but you know so much with your years of experience. Next you will be trying to tell folks that Spyders are better than Mags as well, since after all, they outsell Mags too.

I am sure you have not read my response to your posts in Tech, but I will mirror it here briefly…. I advise you stop trolling, or I will be forced to show you what a Troll really is. Your ignorance is starting to really get annoying.

AUTOMAGS.ORG is the Official AutoMag Owners’ Group. If you don’t like Mags, or own them, or even have the common sense to not bash them every time you post, feel free to find a more suitable forum to be an active member of. I am sure everyone, to include yourself, will be much happier.
If you get serious into paintball, at one time or another 95% of tournament players will own an autococker. Oh no did I break into your sheltered little space of AO? Are the little automag people mad because they can't prove me wrong and refuse to give up because they are stubborn and ignorant? Give me a break.

[shartley]

:rolleyes: Yeah, that's it.

[TRIAD]

strongboy2005, the
because they are stubborn and ignorant one, is you. You're ideas are based on nothing, and have been shut down. Either show some facts, or keep quiet.

It seems almost on a monthly basis we get someone in here who does this EXACT same thing, and it's really starting to get annoying. We get tired of writing HUGE posts about something that has been discussed before. So, we say short things, like this:

"NO"

Do a search, and you'll find what some of the more open-minded AO members have posted about this.

[strongboy2005]

What is wrong with all of you guys? THERE IS NO ARGUMENT HERE. There is no way EVER that anyone could say that a classic mag could beat the autocockers of today.

[Timmee]

Hmm, this indifference is bothering me. Mechanical marker to mechanical marker, AGD has WGP beat. Compare this year's top of the line AGD and WGP markers, and you'll see why everyone's upset. For AGD, it's the RTPro, which has the fastest recharging valve in the industry. For WGP, it's the Orracle, which is a dressed up, but otherwise similar marker to WGP's "mid level" marker.

Now, many of your arguments are focused on the classic valve (a valve that's been out since '92, IIRC), as well as the 'Mag in general. Many of your arguments (here and on other threads) are based on personal preference or perception, like comfort, style, and accuracy. Also, I can get the same bps on a stock classic 'Mag as I can on a stock 'Cocker. The 'Mag is less complicated and easier to maintain. Overall, I prefer it to a 'Cocker.

BTW, I used to own a classic 'Mag, own a Cocker, and a 'Mag RT. The only reason I sold my classic is because I had my RT. The RT sees more use than the 'Cocker, not because I'm brainwashed, but because I prefer it more.

[AzrealDarkmoonZ]

Hold on a second here, AGD as WGP beat marker to marker? At best its an opinion at worst it is a blanket statement. WGP is just replying to customer demand, people want milling, annodizing and all the neat little things.

I love my MicroRT, in fact it is my main marker, but I love my Merlin also, both are extremely good markers, the cocker is not complex it just appears that way on the outside and the fact AGD does do a better job in customer support.

Az

[flatacid]

i owned a cocker for 2-3 years. i spent pretty much 900 or so dollars, for it to be the same gun. everything got changed on it.

stock cockers are cool outa the box. stock mags are kool outa the box. i like both, but will probably never own a cocker again. they are money pits.



heres a small veiw. goto warpig's classifieds section. tell me what the most common gun being sold is. its not mags. :)

[Brak]

by making this thread...

[digitard]

Well all I have to say is I have a classic valve mag ... and I went to the field just under 2 weeks ago, and 3 of the Cockers players and one of the Shocker 4x4 players asked if they could use my gun for a round and afterwards they all said they really dug its accuracy and ROF. Now its not stock but the valve and trigger was (I just upgraded to intelliframe but it was stock at the time) ....

When it comes down to it ... my mag is reliable, great shot, EXTREMELY quiet (outside a few foot radius), and very customizable with minimal struggles .... I've had my mag for about 5yrs without anything but standard Oring/wear issues ... I

Give me a mag anyday...

Sincerely,
Dave K

[MinimagRockin']

Automag RT/RTP's are simply the best(out of the box) mechanical paintguns one can buy. Don't try to deny it. As far as stock classic mags vs cockers, they are pretty much the same on all levels performance wise on hpa (which nearly 100% of the paintball community will be using in the not too distant future I predict). Now you take two guns that are the same from the performance standpoint but not the same as far as complexity goes. Mags are far simpler in design than cockers, making them easier to fix, work on, field stip, upgrade, etc, etc. "They're fine if you don't mess with them..." Well there's nothing to mess with in the first place on a mag...

Oh and where is wgps electro? Or even a gun that can compete with an rtp? Where's their air tank that can compete with a flatline? Where's their customer service? How about an Autockers Online? If you want to talk AGD vs WGP, AGD owns.

[strongboy2005]

Originally posted by MinimagRockin'
Oh and where is wgps electro? Or even a gun that can compete with an rtp? Where's their air tank that can compete with a flatline? Where's their customer service? How about an Autockers Online? If you want to talk AGD vs WGP, AGD owns.

E-orracle, orracle or even a stock cocker for that matter could beat an rt Pro IMO.

Tanks?
http://www.worr.com/pics/82.jpg
http://www.worr.com/pics/84.jpg
http://www.worr.com/pics/83.jpg

if we must...

customer service? i wouldn't know never had a prob with my cocker.

unless u have an rt pro on it's sweet spot or some other illegal crap that u can do to them, then you can't beat a 1 mm trigger pull.

[Dayspring]

Is she back here starting trouble again? I thought we changed the locks last time... :rolleyes:

I would love to see this 1mm trigger pull. Do you actually know what 1mm is? Measurement wise? I HIGHLY doubt you have it tricked that far. In any case- I would love to take you out to our field- RT versus your cocker. I'd place my fastest shooting person against you and we'll see how you do.


Originally posted by strongboy2005


E-orracle, orracle or even a stock cocker for that matter could beat an rt Pro IMO.

See. IMO. That's your opinion. And you're entitled to it. HOWEVER, fact is fact. And in this case, you're WAY wrong.



unless u have an rt pro on it's sweet spot or some other illegal crap that u can do to them, then you can't beat a 1 mm trigger pull.

Yeah, but by the time your gun has cycled to shoot again or it busts a hose, you've got a rain of paint coming towards your sorry hide. (And I emphasize SORRY)

Oh, and for the last time-

DO NOT FEED THE TROLL!

[CRog075]

Originally posted by MinimagRockin'
to mess with in the first place on a mag...

Oh and where is wgps electro? Or even a gun that can compete with an rtp? Where's their air tank that can compete with a flatline? Where's their customer service? How about an Autockers Online? If you want to talk AGD vs WGP, AGD owns.


You are freaking retarded. First of all, I owned both a cocker and a mag, I prefered the cocker over the mag, because of better accuracy I had and ROF.

A gun that can compete with a RTP? Any autococker

WGP does have an electro...you must be behind times.

And yes, they have a air tank, just as good as the flatline.

Go check there site if you want customer service.

Please show how AGD owns, the best gun AGD has, is the X-Mag and E-mag, which own. But other than that, automags, RTs, etc, arnt the best.

So in conclusion, you got owned by strongboy2005 too.

[CRog075]

Originally posted by Dayspring



See. IMO. That's your opinion. And you're entitled to it. HOWEVER, fact is fact. And in this case, you're WAY wrong.



So you are saying its a fact that RTP is better than an autococker? Well, I dunno about you, but when I see pictures of tournys, i dont see any mags as much as kinds of cockers. Why? Cockers are better, unless its an Xmag or Emag.

[TRIAD]

Originally posted by CRog075


So you are saying its a fact that RTP is better than an autococker? Well, I dunno about you, but when I see pictures of tournys, i dont see any mags as much as kinds of cockers. Why? Cockers are better, unless its an Xmag or Emag.

Why are 'cocker so much better? My ReTro 'mag can fire as fast as I can pull it, which is pretty darn fast, compared to most 'cockers. It never breaks paint, and it is nice and light. Also, my 'mag was cheaper than a lot of nice 'cockers it can outshoot. So what makes a 'cocker so much better?

[strongboy2005]

Originally posted by TRIAD


Why are 'cocker so much better? My ReTro 'mag can fire as fast as I can pull it, which is pretty darn fast, compared to most 'cockers. It never breaks paint, and it is nice and light. Also, my 'mag was cheaper than a lot of nice 'cockers it can outshoot. So what makes a 'cocker so much better?

cockers are faster, smoother, more accurate, out range, and are lighter than any mag all the way up to an x-mag. mags will never have one up on autocockers. they cater to europe, which is the only place you'll find them nvery popular. You can sit and tweak with cockers, get them so short that you don't think it could be shorter, then get it even shorter again. And YES a 1 mm pull is highly HIGHLY possible with a hinge and an orracle 3-way and some extra time...

[Dayspring]

I'm going to come out and say it.

IDIOT


Originally posted by strongboy2005


faster, smoother, more accurate, out range...any mag all the way up to an x-mag.

[TRIAD]

Originally posted by Dayspring
I'm going to come out and say it.

IDIOT



Right on.

Faster, no. EMag with Emagnum cycled at 30 bps. www.butters.org

Fastest I've seen a 'cocker is under 20.

Smoother? Whatever that means.

Accuracy and range is a dead, beaten, reincarnated, beaten again, dead again, reincarnated, dead, beaten, dead, geez, you should know that by now.

I think the upper-end 'cockers are pretty nice. I will stick with my 'mag though.

Dude, you just kind of ended this argument with that absolutely idiotic post.

[Conqueror]

Originally posted by Dayspring
I would love to see this 1mm trigger pull. Do you actually know what 1mm is? Measurement wise? I HIGHLY doubt you have it tricked that far. In any case- I would love to take you out to our field- RT versus your cocker. I'd place my fastest shooting person against you and we'll see how you do.

OK, how is that fair? You get to select the person with the fastest mag finger you know of, and he doesn't get to select a cocker speed demon? And you propose that this will be a good test of comparative speed? If so, you're clearly mistaken. Also, I've gotten a cocker trigger to under 2mm. He's probably exagerating, but cocker triggers can be quite short, and certainly shorter than some mags I've shot.

See. IMO. That's your opinion. And you're entitled to it. HOWEVER, fact is fact. And in this case, you're WAY wrong.

Seeing as you didn't provide a single fact in your post, I'd advise you to cease mocking his opinion. You provided no less than three of them, without a single fact to back anything up. Of course, that's assuming you had made a point to back up, which you didn't.

Yeah, but by the time your gun has cycled to shoot again or it busts a hose, you've got a rain of paint coming towards your sorry hide. (And I emphasize SORRY)

Very helpful, and knowledgeable! :rolleyes: I can't tell if this is a useless flame or a bizarrely stated opinion, but either way, it's not one of those "facts" you so highly touted.

Oh, and for the last time- DO NOT FEED THE TROLL!

Practice what you preach, smart guy.


Now then, to my own assorted facts and opinions...

1) When comparing BONE-STOCK, LOWEST-FORM (the cheapest factory-produced variety, which in this case is the stock cocker vs. the Level 7) the stock cocker is the clear winner. WGP upgrades the stocker each year, whilst AGD hasn't even seen fit to throw a cheap 45 frame on the stock mag. Even if you put LX on that lev7 mag, the stock cocker is still miles ahead. It has a much better trigger (longer by a little, but MUCH easier to pull), can pinch balls in stock form just like LX, can shoot as fast if not faster when used by an experienced cocker shooter, and gets better efficiency. Yes, most of these are opinions. The difference is I don't pretend they are facts, as many have done before ^^^^^.

2) Yes, the RT valve is still the fastest on the planet at 30 bps tested. However, there are many e-cockers out there that can hit 20 bps with no problems, and could go even faster if you are willing to crank up the cocking pressure. While the RT still has it beat, they're both so fast that it's moot. It's like comparing a Ferrari and a Lamborghini - they can both go faster than 99.99995% of the population can or will ever drive them.

3) Although I realize the irony of myself responding to this thread, there's really no point to trying to answer this question. People have been asking the this exact same thing since 1990, and we still have no answer because it's all PERSONAL PREFERENCE.

SHOOT WHAT YOU LIKE, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT THE OTHER GUY SAYS OR THINKS. THAT'S WHY YOU BOUGHT THE GUN, NOT HIM.

CQ

[Dayspring]

The reason I'm not pulling my bag of facts out is because I've already wasted them on this argument with him before. I've shut down his argument several times before. His criteria for comparison were subjective and therefore not reliable. He couldn't back up his arguments past that.

So, "smart guy" what say we chill out and back off.


Originally posted by Conqueror


Now then, to my own assorted facts and opinions...

1) When comparing BONE-STOCK, LOWEST-FORM (the cheapest factory-produced variety, which in this case is the stock cocker vs. the Level 7) the stock cocker is the clear winner. WGP upgrades the stocker each year, whilst AGD hasn't even seen fit to throw a cheap 45 frame on the stock mag. Even if you put LX on that lev7 mag, the stock cocker is still miles ahead. It has a much better trigger (longer by a little, but MUCH easier to pull), can pinch balls in stock form just like LX, can shoot as fast if not faster when used by an experienced cocker shooter, and gets better efficiency. Yes, most of these are opinions. The difference is I don't pretend they are facts, as many have done before ^^^^^.

2) Yes, the RT valve is still the fastest on the planet at 30 bps tested. However, there are many e-cockers out there that can hit 20 bps with no problems, and could go even faster if you are willing to crank up the cocking pressure. While the RT still has it beat, they're both so fast that it's moot. It's like comparing a Ferrari and a Lamborghini - they can both go faster than 99.99995% of the population can or will ever drive them.

3) Although I realize the irony of myself responding to this thread, there's really no point to trying to answer this question. People have been asking the this exact same thing since 1990, and we still have no answer because it's all PERSONAL PREFERENCE.

SHOOT WHAT YOU LIKE, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT THE OTHER GUY SAYS OR THINKS. THAT'S WHY YOU BOUGHT THE GUN, NOT HIM.

CQ

[strongboy2005]

Originally posted by TRIAD


Right on.

Faster, no. EMag with Emagnum cycled at 30 bps. www.butters.org

Fastest I've seen a 'cocker is under 20.

Smoother? Whatever that means.

Accuracy and range is a dead, beaten, reincarnated, beaten again, dead again, reincarnated, dead, beaten, dead, geez, you should know that by now.

I think the upper-end 'cockers are pretty nice. I will stick with my 'mag though.

Dude, you just kind of ended this argument with that absolutely idiotic post.
Who gives a crap about the eMag! The damned things weigh freakin 30 lbs! I swear it was heavier than my old tippmann. I don't care how much you can put into an eMag (which is an electric marker) to get 30 BPS. Most tourneys are capped at 13. So where does that play in? NOWHERE. Accuracy? Mags lose. Again, where are all the automags at the tourneys? I mean the best gun AGD has ever come out with is the X mag and that's because they finally got the idea that people don't want a big heavy hunk . As for an idiot, well you're the idiot dayspring. An idiot if you think in ANY WAY WHATSOEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER that a classic mag could beat a stock autococker. There is just no comparison. I give the classic mag 5 years tops before it is lowered down to a nOOb gun, costing a mere $130 new and designed for the brand new player to play with to see if they'd like to get into the sport, and if they don't like it, NO BIG LOSS.

DON'T FEED THE AUTOMAG TROLLS

[Dayspring]

Originally posted by strongboy2005

Who gives a crap about the eMag! The damned things weigh freakin 30 lbs!


5 pounds. With tank & barrel. Get the ULE rail. Cut down on weight. Aluminum X-valve. Cut down on weight. If you can't handle 5 pounds, I think a trip to the gym is in order.



Accuracy? Mags lose.

:rolleyes: You never learn...



DON'T FEED THE AUTOMAG TROLLS

How are we trolls? It's our board.

[cphilip]

Strongboy your about to get banned. Your cursing is getting out of control and its fairly obvious you came here to only to start some trouble. Think what you want its fine. But everyones got a right to their own opinion. I will be fair and give you this one and only warning. ONLY ONE.