Whatever happened to...

[Cliffio]

this is going in the main since its about this website, but i thought that we were gonna get some new mods?

only reason i ask is everytime i log on, which is alot, i never seen any mods, and there is soo much going on that needs attention, i just wanted to ask and see if there was something in the works or if everyone believes that we have enough mods, because personally i dont think that we do, there are too many threads in the wrong spots, threads that need deleting, people that need guidence

i mean by no means am i complaining about the quality of AO, but i think that it would dramatically improve everyone experience if we had 1 or 2 or even 3 new mods

just my opinion, i know we had a thread about it a while back, just wondering what happened

Cliff

[InfinatyBPS]

Yes, I agree, I get dibs on being a mod tho;)

[Cliffio]

read the rules chief, no asking to be a mod, Oops your out:)

[InfinatyBPS]

u know u only started this thread to become a Mod :)

[shartley]

Actually I don’t think he started this thread to become a Mod. But he does have a point, the Mods tend to now all come on (or it seems) at the same time and much gets overlooked, ignored, or left too long. The past couple months have seen not only an increase in membership, but an increase in a TYPE of member, and some of the current members have lost their minds (or so it seems).

It may be summer, or that school is out (which goes hand in hand for some members) but I for one would appreciate people using a bit more common sense and reading, then following, the rules. This would eliminate the need for any additional Moderators in itself, but I just don’t see that happening.

Oh… and since you called “dibs” on being a Moderator (InfinatyBPS)…. Yes, you can not ASK to be a moderator. Also it is AO Etiquette to only post your Signature ONCE per thread (and more so if you have one with a graphic or sizable text). It is also a bit much to have a signature with a BOOK in it. That is not what signatures are for.. sorry, it shows lack of any common sense and self control. I will be putting in a formal request that new OFFICIAL guidelines be made and posted about Signatures and Signature Images since it seems that what we on AO have pretty much kept under control has now exploded into what I see is a big problem.

What the heck has been happening to AO? And why is it not only because of new members who may not understand we are not like other Paintball Forums, but is starting to be long time members as well? This is confusing to me, and is quite sad.

[Strider]

Is there a place where these AO Etiquette points are posted?

I've been here since March, and though I've picked up on some things, others have eluded me... I'd rather not step over any other 'rules'. :)

[Army]

Since us mods are apparantly underworked and overpaid, here's the rules that too many ignore, forcing us "never here" mods to react way too late to do any good.

As members do not see the moderators forum (it's hidden), you will not know how much assisting, counseling, editing, warning, and banning we do daily. 90+% of what we do is never seen on the boards, we don't work that way, it's rude. If we have a problem with a poster, it's first taken into the private areas of PM or Email. Should we need to take immediate action, well, everyone sees that. When something happens that may require some explaination, we post a thread with that info so you can see what happened and perhaps know that whatever it was, we don't put up with it here. I've got a zillion messages in my PM, most can't be deleted until the problem is cleared up, or I get an answer back. Many are kept for future refference, and evidence of actions taken.

I, nor the other mods, don't do this for any accolades. We do it to keep the best, and largest, single issue paintball site on the web up and running smoothly and succesfully. The all too few "thank you"'s we may get, are put in a file to help remind me that you guys are the greatest and most diverse group that has one reason to be here....Automags.

Read the rules again, and keep them in mind whenever you post:

We want you to enjoy our community and interact with our moderators and members with our online forum. However, there are some rules as we strive to keep the forum "family" orientated, and maintain a "PG-13" level of discussion. There are also some rules that are just general "netiquette".

• No cussing
• No racial, religious, or sexually inflammatory language
• Avoid topics containing religious, racial, or political discussion (they are the top three flame starting toipcs)
• No "hitting" on other members of the channel - they are here for paintball, not for a date
• Do not type in all caps - it means you are shouting
• Do not use excessive colors, bold letters, or ASCII characters
• Do not try to circumvent the cuss filters by using spaces or other characters
• Do not spam or flood the channel with repeated statements or questions
• Do not ask to be a moderator
• Do not exhibit disruptive behavior
• Post topics under their respective forum. For example, a tech question goes in the Tech Forum
• Do not post the same topic in multiple forms
• Off topic posts are allowed, but they must be reasonable and civil
• Do not threaten or "flame" members of the board

Generally we will give you a warning - maybe two. After that you will be banned.

These rules may change at any point and changes will be posted on the forum.

[dropkick1]

thank you moderators for keeping AO the best paintball forum on the interenet!:D

ken

[shartley]

Since us mods are apparantly underworked and overpaid, here's the rules that too many ignore, forcing us "never here" mods to react way too late to do any good.
I MUST point out that NOONE said the Moderators were UNDERWORKED and OVERPAID. That first sentence was (as the author likes to point out to others) rather childish.

A question was asked by a member, and it was being answered (sort of… well.. not really). GREAT! But to act like there is NO problem and that things have not been steadily getting worse here on AO would be fooling yourselves. And it worries many members. Sorry if any moderators take that as a cut against them…. Simply put though, it ISN’T.


I, nor the other mods, don't do this for any accolades. We do it to keep the best, and largest, single issue paintball site on the web up and running smoothly and succesfully. The all too few "thank you"'s we may get, are put in a file to help remind me that you guys are the greatest and most diverse group that has one reason to be here....Automags.
Again I must point out that noone even hinted at a REASON people become a Moderator. But simply put, it does not matter how “noble” of an effort a moderator put in, or how selfless it is of them to accept the responsibility and duty of being one. If the forums are getting worse, they are getting worse… period. You are a bunch of great guys… YES… are the forums getting clogged with stuff that shouldn’t be here… YES… are things getting worse (behavior, signatures, and a bunch of other crap).. a group of us (to include Moderator(s)) think YES.

So to try to make those asking what, if anything will be done, is being done, etc. look UNGREATFUL or UNAPRECIATIVE of the work you guys do is in my opinion dead wrong. Noone came even CLOSE to saying you guys were anything other than doing the best you can do.

I will be the first to back up a Moderator and the job they do… but I will also be the first to say when they are wrong.. in this case playing the wounded party is wrong. Sorry. Many of us have done things that receive little to NO visual appreciation. We do this day in and day out. It is what we CHOOSE to do. So is being a Moderator.

That post brought to light an aspect that not all members were aware of (the Moderator’s Forum), and it gives insight into how you work.. but it didn’t really answer the question asked… more so it sounded more like a big excuse and diversion FROM the question. As well as a “shame on you for asking”…. But that may be just how I read it. Others could have taken it differently…

To me it was like so many replies by politicians when asked about a problem… they list all the good things they do, have done, and might do in the future… give insight into the oh so hectic world they live in… say how little they are appreciated.. etc. but then DON’T answer the original question. But I guess if you make the people who are asking a genuine question feel bad enough, they will forget that they actually had a valid question which should be answered. And that the question was not an attack on those in charge, but about a problem that has been getting worse. Hey.. but that is the easy way, isn’t it?

It is like living in a community that has a growing crime rate, and you ask what is going to be done about it, and even suggest that more Police be hired. Then the Chief of Police comes on and says how unappreciative you are and that him and his officers are working as hard as they can around the clock to handle the problem. He then tells you about all the paperwork they have to do, all the aggravation they get with little to no “thanks”, etc. And then stomps off the stage tossing a book of Laws in your lap.

But then the problem remains!

Sometimes doing your best is just not good enough. Sometimes we DO need help. And someone pointing this out is not a bad thing. Nor is being the one who needs help make you the bad person, or saying you are NOT doing the best you can do. But if that does not translate into VISUAL effects the rest can see… it just isn’t good enough. What is wrong with having more help? And where is the insult in it?

There is a REASON AO is the best Paintball Forum on the Internet… and many of us would like to KEEP it that way. And if it means cutting some dead or diseased limbs off the tree to keep it alive.. so be it. And if you need more gardeners to help with the pruning, trimming, and grooming.. so be it.

I will NOW personally thank ALL the Moderators for doing what is not always an easy job…. And leave it at that…

(Note: I also agree that there should be not only Rules Posted, but AO Etiquette as well. Rules are rules, where Etiquette is a bit different, they are guides of behavior, but not “rules”. Many times following etiquette will in itself prevent someone from breaking an official rule.)

[RT_Luver]

yes, i agree. we do need some new mods. things can get kinda hectic sometimes around here

[Cliffio]

very well put shartley
ver well put


i did forget to mention and i can see that i prolly should have but i meant not to say that the mods here arent the greatest because they are, most mods @ pbc and pbn are jerk on power trips, here is not the case, i do like all the mods and thats an odd thing, you guys try your hardest to keep things running smooth, but like shart said it isnt enough, and im sure alot of members feel the same way. i just think that its time we face the music and realize that AO is too big for 4 mods, thats all im sayin

Cliff

[Cliffio]

Originally posted by Army

I, nor the other mods, don't do this for any accolades. We do it to keep the best, and largest, single issue paintball site on the web up and running smoothly and succesfully. The all too few "thank you"'s we may get, are put in a file to help remind me that you guys are the greatest and most diverse group that has one reason to be here....Automags.

one more thing, army, and any other mods, like i said before i truly am sorry if anytihng ive written has been taken as a blow, you guys really are the best mods onj the internet, and your right you dont get told thank you enough im sure for all the time that you do put in

[personman]

Originally posted by Army
Since us mods are apparantly underworked and overpaid
WHAAAAAAAT?!?! Mods get paid? :confused:
Well, If I was a Mod I wouldnt accept payment, I would do it for the good of AO! :p

[MrAirgunRT]

I posted the other day with the title Just Venting, Sort Of. I was just very angry at the time, and probably never should have posted it, but I did, and can't take it back, only delete it :) . Anyway I can say, there are what 5 mods or so, off the top of my head, trying to control, what is it like 6000 people? That is a big responsiblity, very hard to do I would say. Maybe we should have more mods, or not. I don't know if it would solve the problem but I sure as heck, along with all other Senior members to AO would HATE seeing this forum turned to PBNation. When I am not in here im out in chat rooms, trying to spread the religion of mags, more so a idea if you have seen Dogma :). I always have to defend against people who say.. well you know all the mag lines already, no need to post them even more than they are now. These are the people that come to AO, not even owning a mag, just trying to start trouble. That is EVEN HARDER for the mods to control, when many of the AO members get angry and post things back in retalliation. We mainly just need to ignore these posts. I am starting to feel like SHartley anymore with the long posts, lol no offense or anything. ;)

EDIT: Now that I look at it, it isn't very big, how could SHartley type so much??? :confused:

[TRIAD]

These are the people that come to AO, not even owning a mag, just trying to start trouble

I know you didn't mean what I am reading, about how people in here have to own mags, but man, don't say that. I own a 'cocker, not a mag, I only come here because 1. mags are good guns too 2. people here also own cockers 3. this is the best forum anywhere on the 'net So, you shouldn't have to own a mag in here, and those who don't aren't here to start trouble, and if there are people without mags in here that are starting trouble, well, that's not good, but there are also mag owners in here to start trouble, and people getting ripped in deals by both owners, etc. Not to diss the mods, but a 1250:1 AO'ers to mod ratio is kinda high. I think maybe 2 or 4 more mods would be a great idea. Sure, four can do the job, but with eight, that's twice the army to fight bad AO'ers.

[CleenSweep]

I hate to reply but feel I must. No matter what you do people will never be satisfied. It's human nature to want, want, want and take, take take. Now I'm not dissing anyone on AO or other paintball forums but take for example the person that recieves his welfare check, he will complain and say that it is not enough. I see this all the time since I work in an area that deals with these types of reactions.
No matter what is done there will be no satisfaction. You can give things away to people and they will look you in the face and say, "that's it!!!" I came to this forum because it is one of the best. I'm happy and I don't mind it the way it is. Could it be better? Yes. Should we throw a hissy fit because it's not? NO. Let's just enjoy the ride it gives us.

WEW!!! This is supposed to be a fun place...right...right?:rolleyes:

[BTAutoMag]

if youre implying that the mods be replaced i dont think that should happen. the mods are a part of AO and i dont want to see them leave. the mods are doing a good job (brownie points) and if you want a solution just get 1 or 2 new ones to ADD on not to replace.

[wimag]

:confused:
yeah right and this thread was not started for the sole purpose of "look at me let me be a mod"

[Cliffio]

Originally posted by wimag
:confused:
yeah right and this thread was not started for the sole purpose of "look at me let me be a mod"

what the hell are you talking about?
ther are already alot of people that agree with me on this, im not saying remove any the mods we have are great, i think that we could use more

i by NO means am saying anyone should be one, im just stating that alot of people aling with me think that AO would benefit from the addition of a few more mods, thats it, dont read any further into it than that chief

Cliff

[xmetal2001]

It seemed like AO had been going downhill for quite a while, but recently it has seemed to improve. Maybe i'm just on at the wrong time to see things going wrong, but it seems the forums have been improving. Or maybe i'm just getting used to it.

[Cliffio]

Originally posted by xmetal2001
Or maybe i'm just getting used to it.

i think thats it, i know exactly what you mean


and to the person who said we will never be happy, is there something wrong with wanting to improve the AO experience? can everyone be happy with the same thing?

i just remember alot of people thinking it was a good idea to add a few mods, and i agree and it seemed to get swept under the rug for some reason, all im asking is why? do people feel we dont need them? because i feel that they are needed, not because the mods we have now dont do a great job, but with 39,000 threads and 346,xxx posts i think its hard for 4 and sometimes 5 people to do all the work, first off it can stress the mods out, im sure some of them wouldnt mind a little lighter load, they all have lives of their own to run

Cliff

[MrAirgunRT]

Triad, extremely bad misunderstanding on my part, I just ment for the people who want to come to AO to flame mags, or just to stir up trouble. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

And BT I agree keep the mods we have now, maybe add 1-3 more because AO is growing daily.

[Ultimator]

Originally posted by CleenSweep
I hate to reply but feel I must. No matter what you do people will never be satisfied. It's human nature to want, want, want and take, take take ... No matter what is done there will be no satisfaction. You can give things away to people and they will look you in the face and say, "that's it!!!"It is said that humans are never satisfied, that you give them one thing and they want something more. This is said with negative connotation, whereas it is one of the greatest talents the species has and one that has made it superior to animals that are satisfied with what they have. Enough said about that.

I agree. There are way too many people (I won't say any names) who come on here for the sole purpose to diss mags ... through and through. In my humble opinion I think more mods need to be brought to AO in order to police the number of people who get to post such things or restrict them from posting at all.

[cphilip]

You know your opinions on what should be here and not is your opinion. Just because we disagree on what to leave or not does not mean a judgement has not been passed or no moderating has occured. You may not agree with if but thats our call to make. Army makes a valid point that a lot of our work is done privately and you will not ever now how large that is. Daily I get reported post that have no validity and some that do. Everyone seems to moderate from his own perspective. We try to be lenient as we can while still keeping things under control. We will never agree on every call. It's easy to arm chair Quarter back! A few of you are a bit overzealous with the control hard arse aproach I think. Relax and read what you want or ignore it. No ones making you nit pick every single thread. Moderation means just what it sounds like "Moderate". Too much of it makes for not a fun place, too little, the same. So we MODERATE that...

[shartley]

Cphilip-
You bring up some good points. Thank you.

So, as to NOT be confused or read what you and Army are saying wrong… are you saying that you have NO problem keeping up with what has been happening on AO, and that the reason more and more crap is staying ON AO is that you LET it? Again, I don’t want to draw conclusions, but from what you posted this looks like it may be the case.

And if it IS the case, than you are correct… many of us do not agree with how things are starting to be handled. So, for the sake of “fun” we let punks do, say, and post anything they want? For the sake of keeping new members flooding in from other forums we lower what has ALWAYS been AO standards?

And this does what? Makes AGD look better because they have more members on AO? Okay, so you get a ghetto… lots of posts, lots of members, lots of crap. I don’t see how that helps AGD one bit. People used to be able to say proudly “AO is NOT PBN!” That however is fast not becoming the case. And for what? A hand full of members?

Or, is this suppose to increase AGD sales? Like the ones causing all the problems are more likely to BUY an AGD Product than those that have made up the backbone of AO and follow long standing rules and standards of behavior? I doubt this as well.

I could write for days on this, but I will not….. However, it is FAR from being Arm Chair Quarterbacking… sorry. It is one thing to defend your position, and like you well know, I have NO problem backing you guys up… but when even with all the “defending” of your jobs and what you are doing, AO is getting WORSE, I don’t buy it. Either you actually need help, OR you are letting the standards drop so low that AO will soon be indistinguishable from the other Paintball Forums. This is either because you WANT it that way, or you are being TOLD to let things slide. Either way, many of us don’t agree with the outcome.

So, you Moderators can either stay the “party line” and defend the deterioration of AO, or stand up and admit that something needs to be done. And I don’t think any of us care if this happens openly on the forums, or privately behind the scene. By all means we don’t expect you to come on the open forums and complain about potentially having your hands tied (as I KNOW they have been on some issues), but I hope you DO talk to management about it. I never thought I would see the day that AO Moderators would get SO Politically Correct and “party line” that they lost all backbone….

Again, I could be wrong, but that is how I see it.

And why you Moderators seem to be offended because someone suggests that you may need help because things seem to be getting worse is beyond me. Kim brought up a good point… if at her work they got in a massive amount of new things to do, and they had to hire more people to help handle it, SHE would not get offended. She would not take it as them saying she was doing a BAD job. She would actually enjoy the extra help.

Is it a Power issue? Heck, the whole thing is confusing… how you can get so defensive over genuine concern, and NOT address the problem, but only defend your “jobs”. I think I asked some important things, and will be very interested in seeing how they are answered. No side stepping, no passing the buck, no reversals of issues….. simple honest answers.