No-rise classic mag body

[Sinnet]

Blowback is not an issue with Level 10.- Miscue

I believe that making a no-rise classic mag body a standard option would greatly increase the popularity of the automag line of markers.

When I look at the two most popular so-called high end semi markers on the market, the mag and the cocker, three things that majorly contribute to (I assume) the reason why more cockers are sold then automags.
#1 is a low-rise vertical feed. Autocockers with vertical feed have been selling like hotcakes. The automag, even with level 10, is rooted in its side feed that makes the marker (ugh, i guess in my opinion) unbalanced, and also sticks your hopper out giving you a disadvantage shooting out of one side of your bunker. Now, I know that diggers makes the center-feed highrise minimag body, but I really feed that this takes away one of the automag's main advantages, its size. Also, I have seen that some of the polls in the AO forums have shown that people prefer powerfeed over vertical feed. I believe that this stems mainly from the fact that mags do not come with a low-rise centerfeed option, and the loyalty of customers to the company. Further proof of the paintball playing population's like for vertical feed can be found in the fact that no-one is clamoring to get a side or powerfeed Impulse, Angel or Bushmaster. Also, many people have found that the resale values on side-feed cockers has dropped considerably due to the newfound popularity for vertical feed bodies. I know many of my friends feel the same way about vert feed, and would be happy to ditch the elbows forever.
#2 would be that the autococker generally runs better on CO2, but i won't go into the same detail on this becasue it's not the point of this post.
#3 is the fact that mags lack a nice clickety back block. Mr. Kaye, you may want to take a look at a design of mine for a battery-operated back block that attatches to the rear of the automag, operates via intellifeed and is completely independent of the mag's internals. It may lure even more customers to AGD :)

everyone else- what do you think- agree, disagree?
I feel that offering a no- or at least low-rise vertical feed on classic and mini-mags would greatly benefit AGD.

[Panzerr]

#1 reason why autocockers are more popular in the tourny scene than automags: Fad.

[Sinnet]

hmmm Panzerr... that really didn't seem to have much to do with my post. You see, the whole point was that while comparing automags and autocockers, I decided to post about something that I believe would draw more consumers to AGD, the low-rise vert feed. Now, if you want to post a reaction to that, go right ahead. Heck, even say that vert feed is a fad if you want to. But try to make your responce relevent to the post.

thanks

[AcemanPB]

no autocockers are not a fad, everyone knows they have 72.8% more range and accuacy than any marker

It's been proven in many backyards, i myself tested an autococker and an automag side by side and the cocker was WAY more accurate. I mean sure the paint to barrel match was a little off and i was running the mag off co2 but still...

The autococker is the most accurate gun, becaue everyone knows that the moving of the back block creates an elctro magnetic field the makes the paintball glide farther and more accuractely!!!




:D :D :D JK :D :D :D


PS. --- if they did make a no rise body for my mini i would buy it over a powerfeed, but you also have to take into consideration all the warp users out there

[Panzerr]

What I'm saying is that fads come and go. The next thing you know everybody will be using sling shots. Someone will dedide that X marker is the best, and everyone will go along with him because he's some type of "authority" in their eyes.

[AcemanPB]

just incase anyone didn't see it i was just kidding,

although i don't believe autocockers are a fad because they have been around quite sometime

[Vex]

Good call AcemanPB! I guarantee you that the number one reason that you don't see more vert-feed Mags is due to the Warp Feed. AGD created warp feed, why would they not want to sell it by making their markers vert-feed? Warp feed eliminates the hopper on top of the marker all together, thus giving you the absolute lowest profile of any marker out there--low-rise vert-feed cockers included.

As for a moving back block on a Mag...the one on the cocker actually is part of the way the gun works. Why would you want to add something like that just for looks but has not real function? I'll tell you, that's the main reason why I bought a Mag over a cocker. Mags have a lower profile, and all of the internals are in one nice, tight, convenient little package. Plus my best friend used a cocker and was ALWAYS working on the beast.

[Brendan]

dude that whole thing about making a back block on a mag was a joke. It's a little sarcasm.

[Halliday]

If AGD made a "no-rise" body for a Classic Mag, I would definatly buy one.

[Vex]

How do you know if the back block Mag thing was a joke? I thought he was serious about it. His post reads like he is serious.

[Sinnet]

i guess I was a little too subtle on the sarcasm about the back block... :D

[pbstu]

i agree, i would definitaly buy a no-rise vert feed for the mag if it was offered.



stu.

[than205]

Sinnet,
I gotta agree with you on the vert feed thing. It would sell a lot of mags. I think. I wouldn't buy one. I'm waiting for the side feed for my warp to plug into. The thought of having the top of the marker totally clear of crap makes me tingle.

[AcemanPB]

Originally posted by AcemanPB
no autocockers are not a fad, everyone knows they have 72.8% more range and accuacy than any marker

It's been proven in many backyards, i myself tested an autococker and an automag side by side and the cocker was WAY more accurate. I mean sure the paint to barrel match was a little off and i was running the mag off co2 but still...

The autococker is the most accurate gun, becaue everyone knows that the moving of the back block creates an elctro magnetic field the makes the paintball glide farther and more accuractely!!!




:D :D :D JK :D :D :D


PS. --- if they did make a no rise body for my mini i would buy it over a powerfeed, but you also have to take into consideration all the warp users out there


ok guys i was just kidding, why would i want a back block on my mag?? oh well sorry if i confused any one

[snwbrdr913]

Okay I would definately buy a no rise vert. You have to see that it gives better looks and less profile. And personally, I think the warp feed is ugly, but it is great at reducing profile.... except when you snap out the side of the bunker and have the warpfeed sticking out and... well.. yeah.

http://www.rebelhome.net/gunwarpfeed.jpg

Mmm... the right side of that gun makes a nice juicy target

[-Xugg-]

mark me down for #3

[liigod]

i wana see blowback not be an issue. Is it eliminated now? Does the fact taht you pinch rather than chop make it less important in your mind or sumthing? clarify this. Because i know vert feed mags i have are blenders and they are HIGHRISES. Halo b hoppers would make this possible, but i doubt without level ten on a no rise mag that you could get though a whole game wihtout a break.

[Vegeta]

I think you are are misisng an importand thing here-

The No-Rise bodies are ONLY for the Halo hopper. If you all go putting revvie's on it it will feed horribly. Why? Because the designs are diffrent. Tom stated that the revvy NEEDS that larger ball stack of a s/f or p/f. The halo does not work good with high ball stacks, thats why the no-rise was SPECIFICALLY for the Halo. I am afraid it they did release it for all their guns that a lot of people would buy them for cosmetic reasons, slap a revvy on them, then get all pissed at AGD because it doesnt feed right. If htey have a Lvl-10, they will be pinching alot and sputtering. If they DONT have a lvl-10 and buy the body before they get one.. then they will be royally pissed because its chopping up a storm......




Just giving some ppl a heads up.

[Halliday]

I knew they are for the Lvl10/Halo combo. My lvl 10 is on the way and I'd go buy a Halo for that body.

(I hate spelling)

[liigod]

like i said...

[Sinnet]

thanks for the feedback everyone-
vegeta, I realize that a no-rise is specifically a Halo-B loader, but what prevents AGD from making a low-rise? Revvies work great on low-rises on a million guns, including "blowback semis" like spyders and pirhanas.

[liigod]

no, actually they work terrable on guns with blowback. Mags have TONS of blowback. Some spyders and phiranas and stuff have close to as much. The reason they dotn have manny problems... is becase hey... THEY DONT FIRE THAT FAST! mags you can fire MUCH faster. also do u see kingman making lowrises anymore on their vert feed guns?! lol NOPE. They have highrise clams, and SKYRISE clamps. THEY ARE HUGE. Curly fries found it was the only thing that worked on his old hyper frame mag. The skyrise was funny.

[Ultimator]

You might be able to rig up a 90º elbow on that no-rise body but it might take a while to get it right.

[liigod]

a vert clamp?

[Sinnet]

i'm sorry liigod, but I beg to differ. My marker right now is a JT Excellerator 4.0, basically a spyder clone (mag soon :) ). It has a fairly small vertical feed tube, and I've cut down my hopper to the point where it's a fairly small stack of balls coming out of it before they get to the breech. I have had very few feeding problems with blowback due to the feed tube. I shoot strings that, although it's never been measured, are probably 5-7 bps without much of a problem. I also know people who have an electronic gripframe on JT markers (hmm, also the excellerator 5.0 and 6.0) that work great even at high rates of fire. My friend's black dragun sustains very high rates of fire with a revvy on a low-rise. If these guns can do it, so can mags, especially with level 10.

[liigod]

black draguns are awesoem guns, and they dont have much blowback usually, it doubt they have high machineing standards, so i bet their got lucky. The jt excelerator, does the bolt go into the barrel when it fires? Anyway i also know that different batches of guns have different levels of blowback. Bushmasters for example. their bots didnt fit their bodies durringa few runs of that gun, they had tremendous blowback. But like i said, maybe you got lucky with a good bolt fit, but most people who have high blowback guns and a short stack of balls have problems, unless of course they dont fire very fast.

[DoctorStox]

ok, first i would like to say, there are vert adapters for warp feeds, so making a vert feed body would not be hypocritical of AGD. secondly, i have a micromag, and they have relatively low rise vert feeds, and with my 12v revy and an intelliframe, i dont chop, nore do i break. i ahve maybe broken 2 balls since i got my intelliframe, and these were prob due to woodball in the rain. so i say go with the no rise vert feed body, vert feed rules.

[OldSchoolMag]

Okay, back to the original post first -

1) Yes, low/no rise would definatly make mags a bigger seller, because more people would rather have their hopper on top and shoot fast, than to have a warp on the side of their 'gun, making it unbalanced and harder to handle. Now, I've only played with a warp a few times, but I've found that I (and everyone I know - no exageration) prefer a center feed. It's just easier to do all around. No hooking up a warp, extra batteries, more weight (it's a mag allready, for crying out loud), balance. Don't get me wrong - the warp is a GREAT idea, but just not right for everyone.
2) So what if cockers can run on C02? Sooner or later everyone makes the jump to HPA, so it doesn't really matter, just in the newbie market (which is actually a fairly large market).

Autocockers are better sellers than Mags because they are more upgradable, WGP has many sponsorships, there's a lot of hype going around, they can run on a lower pressure and hell - they are VERY NICE 'guns. I can't wait until I make enough money to buy one - well, after I finish upgrading my RT, of course.

OSM

[omni]

My MicroMag has a LowRise Vert body and well, I don't chop like a blender. I was out shooting it today and I didn't get any chops. I've got a Old 9v PRe BE revy modded to a 12v. I'll admit I was not hammering on the trigger trying to get 13bps or anything crazy like that :D

I also have a High Rise insert, but thats for newer hopper necks. It doesn't fit my old Revy to well, so I haven't used it yet.

[SqueegeeKid]

Man the #1 reason Cockers sell so much is cause of that cute little batch of plastic tubing on the front. That just spells wacky-hella-coolness!

Oh yeah and the name. I smile everytime someone mentions a Cocker....
i'm grinning right now :)

[Vegeta]

If AGD actually started making mags like that one pnue-cocker-mag that we all saw pics of (Mag w/ cocker pnuematics running the sear) they would sell a LOT more. for one that made a good 2mm trigger pull.. light tirgger pull.. and the fast action of hte ram (no shortstoking) well taht hella cool- of course lvl 10 is out now.. but still a ton of ppl who knew nothing about mags would run to buy it just cause it looks cool.

I still say that they shoul make it.

[DoctorStox]

yeah, but adding that will do 2 things. will make the gun bigger and more complex, axactly what mags are against.

[FutureMagOwner]

2mm isnt that short on a cocker i can get that on mine stock except a new trigger

with the race gun frame you get a 0.2mm pull thats the shortest i heard on a cocker but on a non electro cocker the shortest is around 1mm


and the reason to buy a cocker isnt any of taht stuff

i shot a cocker and the back block shut on my finger(dont ask how) and after i managed to get it out and shot it a few more times i thought "holy crap this is much better than my tippmann", and my friend didnt have his mag at the time and if i shot both i still would have went with the cocker because the trigger was much lighter and easier(althogh my friend chops on his mag all the time and after i got the barrel to not block the breach i was shooting about as fast as he does without a chop) and now im debating on whetehr to buy that mag, get a matrix, or get an rt pro, or finish off my cocker with stuff(although it only needs a new detent and ill be happy)

ok off my rant i gotta get to work... cya!!