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View Full Version : Why is the use of aluminum so abundant in Paint ball markers?



magman007
07-03-2002, 06:32 PM
I wonder this. There are lighter and stronger materials that a marker could easily be made out of. Im taking things from my lacrosse experience. In lacrosse, the cheepest and weakest sticks are made out of aluminum. Then you step up the ladder to an alloy reffered to as Cu 31. After this alloy there is a very strong, and light weight alloy called C405. Then there is also C555. i do not understand why no one makes a marker out of any of these 3 alloy's? They are all annodiseable, all strong, all scratch resistant, and all excessively light. They can even be cryogenicly treated to make them even stronger. i here arguments about a marker being to heavy? well, you could make a mag body out of a tube of C405. Same with the body rail, this would significantly reduce the weight of oh, say an e-mag. The other great thing about C405 is that it does not bend mutch at all, after a specific stress point is breaks, well i doubt any thing in paintball is going to break a body or what not. It takes a 60 inch long Defensive shaft made of titanium to break a c405 shaft. They are also able to be taken down to verry thin thicknesses. Id just like some insight as to why these alloy's are not exploited in our world of paintball.

sniper1rfa
07-03-2002, 07:35 PM
those alloys are HARD. you will not be able to get away with cheaply milling/extruding a body out of them. a mag tube, may be, but not a shocker body (and shockers need it, mag bodies are not all that heavy) or something similar.

magman007
07-03-2002, 07:41 PM
oh yea, i kno their hard, that was part of my point, i was thinking more along the lines of a body rail, and a grip frame or some thing like that. also, i would expect the price to jump, and these are not parts that would be stock, they woulsd be for those looking for the best of the best. i really think that the addition of parts made out of these alloy's would be a good step in the right direction. If i pay well over 1k for a marker, i want it to be as light as possible, im willing to pay more for a marker, or for lighter coponets to my marker. do you not agree?

sniper1rfa
07-03-2002, 07:49 PM
i agree yes, but these parts would be very, very pricey. i mean like possibly 50 bucks for a body rail. worth it (these would not be in high demand)? probably not. i would like to see it done though, see how much wieght could actually be save.

tome, care to stay up for another week when you get back from your dino bone dig? please?:D ;)

Butterfingers
07-03-2002, 09:04 PM
All those ARE aluminum alloys. CU405 is an an Alcoa Aluminum INC. trademark. These alloys are generally 7000 series T6 aluminum.

The most common form of of aluminum is 6000 series aluminum that we find in our paintguns. It is significantly weaker and softer than 7000 series aluminum but it is also cheaper.

Aluminum treatments and the metals they alloy them with can vary the strength of the metal greatly. But they cost money.

When costs are factored in 6000 series aluminum is the best material to use.

magman007
07-03-2002, 09:37 PM
hey sniper, i agree the parts wouild be pricey, but i wouldnt mind, i just dropped $85 on a ultralight body rail(just regular aluminum) for my e-mag, you kno one of the colored ones.

Butters, also i see what your saying about price, and i pointed that out. I had a feling that c405 was an alcoa trade mark, as it is printed on every c405 shaft i had owned, I knew they were alloy's but i should have said that! feel that they should try and exploit these alloy's tho. even if it was for custom work. or for a custom extreme body? hint hint. People like Dock Nickel use carbon fiber for cocker body's. and that is expensive 2. why not just try it? id be willing to drop 400 for the material, to try and make something hgappen that was beneficial to the paintball community. if some one like agd were to see this, id be willing to buy a block of it to have an extreme body made, and i would give all rights to agd. also, think, that we could mill more and more off of the bodies, making them smaller and lighter, why because the alloy's are strong enough to handel it

FreshmanBob
07-04-2002, 07:57 PM
see the problem is, you an only a handful of other people would want to pay that kind of money. It takes a large number of people for a venture like that to be worth it. Also, of the few people that can afford it, how many would have the same gun or want the same parts? It wouldn't be worth it unless it was someone like doc doing individual peices, making it even more expensive.

magman007
07-04-2002, 08:56 PM
hmmm, dunno, i think if the trend caught on there would be a market, dont you think? maybe a 2000 dollar c405 angel, dont you tihnk that if it looked good enough, and offered more it would sell?

danEboy
07-07-2002, 01:24 AM
How about a metal that's stronger than titanium but can be molded like plastic ?

http://www.msnbc.com/news/776076.asp

More Info here...

http://www.liquidmetal.com/

The possibilities are endless.

Drops that can be any shape you want. (No milling needed. ;) )


Call out the artists to make the molds.


Dan

BlackVCG
07-07-2002, 02:28 AM
Economics drive EVERYTHING.

Your demand is only a single item in the list of things a company looks at to increase its profit.

Using material that can be easily machined and provide the needed mechanical properties with the greatest profit margin will ALWAYS take priority over high end materials.

You're only going to see people like Doc Nickel and Glenn Palmer that do one of a kind custom work make something out of these alloys you're talking about. Only until these high end materials become more affordable will you see them being used by the big names in the industry like AGD, WDP, WGP, etc.

They use these kind of materials in lacrosse sticks because they take a beating and they provide a stronger stick that will last. Using them in paintball guns will not provide any benefit over the existing materials used in most cases.

The typical person that plays paintball doesn't want to spend more than $100 on all the gear they need. Don't believe me, call Paintball-Online or any of the other big online retailers and ask them how many Angels they sell each week and how many Spyders, BE Guns and other low end guns they sell. 90% of the market isn't going to care what material their paintball gun is made out of. They just want it to work and have a good time with it.

You have to look at the big picture when it comes to these kind of things.