Expensive Guns

[Sinnet]

Well, I used a 2001 Fly angel, an impulse, and an orracle autococker today (first time i've used higher-end guns) alongside a mag and Black Dragun. I cannot see why people would spend so many hundreds of dollars more on these guns than, for example, a mag or the dragun. I barely noticed more kick than any of the higher-end guns than the dragun, and the trigger was just as nice. The one thing I could see is buying an orracle if you wanted art in a gun, but... why? So much money for negligable performance that woud have been better spent on more paint. At least that's from my dirt-poor point of view. :D

[paintbattler]

i agree..why not buy an RT Pro and save you all kinds of money

[darklord]

You make a good point. The RT pro looks like an awesome gun, but if I had a choice between an RTP or a high end gun like an e-mag extreme then I'd definitely choose the extreme. Keep in mind with the higher end guns they are more customizeable, and you get what you pay for.

[liigod]

you make a good point at first, the black dragun is an amazingly good gun. Ill take it over any mag personally... cept for an extreme or sfl with an eye. But these draguns cost 80 bux! :eek: :eek: the barrel on most guns costs more! They are great guns and shoot just as well. the only thing most high end guns have on em is durrability, if u get the cheap draguns, and paint breakage. Cheaper guns dont have the ability to not chop really.

[Marek]

Kinda off the subject, but a black dragon is only $80?!? Wow thats cheap. I tried one out a few days ago and really liked the trigger on it. I wouldnt trade it over my Mini, but it would be a nice back-up/"lend a friend a gun" gun.

[DarkRipper]

If just a standard mag or a black dragun e-spyder is all you need, then use that. Paintball should be about fun, not about whose gun is better, etc.

Play with what you enjoy, and let the others do the same. If someone needs to spend 1000 dollars more to do that, then that's their thing, isn't it?

:)
DR

[shartley]

You make a good point. The RT pro looks like an awesome gun, but if I had a choice between an RTP or a high end gun like an e-mag extreme then I'd definitely choose the extreme. Keep in mind with the higher end guns they are more customizeable, and you get what you pay for.
Please do not take this bad.. but I would like to elaborate and do a bit of “my opinion” with this….

The RT Pro IS an awesome marker, no doubt. However, I would not call it NOT a high end marker. For mechanical markers you can not get any HIGHER END than the RT Pro. In fact, it is more high end than many of the Electric Markers out there. It will also lay paint better, faster, and more reliably then a lot of Electric Markers on the market.

What some people call High End Markers, are little more than high price tags put on what I would call a “good” marker with a few extra “features” (most of which most people will never use). They are very nice Markers, but not worth the price tags they come with (again IMHO).

I think if the RT Pro offered a few body styles it would soon outsell quite a few of the “high end Electrics” out there, and still decimate them on the field. The biggest problem in my view with AGD markers is that you DON’T need to tinker with them, or slap all sorts of stuff on them for them to rule the Paintball Fields. They are truly an “out of the box” marker. (Well, now we have Level 10, but that is a different story… a good many of us don’t chop anyway.)

I like to think of it like this… like sports cars, there are some you buy because you WANT to tinker with them, slap stuff on them, customize them, etc. and they will work Fantastic! And there are some you buy because you DON’T want to have to do all that crap to get the same performance (if not MORE) out of them. Both can be great cars and drive really fast, handle extremely well, etc. But there IS a difference, one is out of the box, the other is a “project”. I can not imagine anyone doing ANYTHING to a McClaren F1. ;)

Want to save some money but still have the better marker? RT Pro! All the rest is IMHO an issue of preferences.

[freek133]

Really sorry to get off topic, but the nppl, did they say that you couldnt use the rt/rtp in their tournaments?

[Yatta!]

I think if the RT Pro offered a few body styles it would soon outsell quite a few of the “high end Electrics” out there

When AGD sells extreem bodys, RTP's can get a new face lift! Everything will fit right? The foregrip will be a problem tho, where can you put one? Emag battery?

Also, I would like to submit my "opinion" as well, the difference between high end and low end markers are this, low end markers are based on blow back valves. paintballstar catergorizes them this way too. All tho that may be smacking down some people with spyders, piranhas, *insert blow back here*

Unless!
there is no such thing as high or low, who made that up should be beaten down and raped. If someone likes a gun, wouldnt they consider it high end? If it is based on reliability, then some electros should be low, and the mags and tippmans should be up at the top! The whole high and low thing is fubar. If it is based on prices, well then, i can get a talon, make the body out of gold, and sell it for $10,000,000, but you know what? Internally its still a talon. Prices have nothing to do with performance, most of the time. Not saying with the more money, the better performance. There will be better quality and more "features" tho. In AGD's case the more money it costs, you get better quality and features that actually have a purpose in performance*lvl 10, reative trigger, mechanical to electro switch in emags*, but in most electros, just more firing modes, email, chat rooms, web design, linux, windows, a mini keyboard in the grip, GPS, and other useless things you would never need. In the end, there shouldn't be high or low. Just what you like, your preference, your choice, not anyone else's.

Yatta!

[than205]

freek133 - wrong. (not flaming you) OMG. How long will this falsehood perpetuate?

With regard to RT/RTP/Retro. Why any tourney player would not consider it I don't know? I played yesterday for the first time with my new Pro. That thing is too fast.
After the first game, I went out with just my hopper to try keep my self from unloading my entire pack every game.
I had so much fun. I love the trigger.

liigod - You seem to be all about looks. Besides looks, what does the Extreme or SFL have over a RTP?
I like a mechanical trigger. So, we'll call that preference.
If you say weight. Out in the field I didn't notice the weight. I have a 90cu tank and a Warp for reference. I did think when I put the tank on the gun that it was heavy. But when I got playing it didn't matter anymore.

The markers with the EYE type systems. Hmmm.... Just another thing that can break. I'm on the fence about that stuff. I'll stick with a mechanical marker.

Why didn't I stick with just my PF Mag? Well, my finger has an illness. It's spastic, and when I get on it I short-stroke like crazy. Also a major reason I don't get a Cocker. The RTP has eliminated that.

I fidget with things enough, but when I go to play I want to play. Another reason why I don't own most if not all the higher end markers.

If the field testing goes well with the Level 10 stuff. Like I said, I see no reason for a tourney player to not use a RTP.

[Kevmag]

I recently bought a used AM Retro from this forum. I love the trigger pull, its simplicity, and relative light weight (vs my E-Mag). I wish I would have bought this marker before I spent all that money on the emag. If I could get anything close to the amount I spent on it, I'd sell it and buy another Retro.

[freek133]

Originally posted by than205
freek133 - wrong. (not flaming you) OMG. How long will this falsehood perpetuate?

Thank you for the information, i dont really care if you flamed me or not, I got the facts straight and thats all that matters, the reason i asked the question is because i heard some people talking about it on pbcity and I never really looked into it before. again, thanks for the info.

[mykroft]

freeek133: it's a rumor that's been floating around due to Tippmann RT kits being banned in most tourney's.


I've shot a Black Dragun, it's a nice gun, for the money. It lacks a few features of my Fly that I consider indespensible.

1. Battery Life, I get 30,000+ shots off a charge, vs 8-9000 for a Dragun, a big tourney will mean I need to bring spare, expensive batteries.

2. Consistency. Blowback markers simply do not get +/- 1fps at a chrony, and hold it all day (My Fly chronied at 237, 237, 237 yesterday)

3. Ease of cleaning. If I should happen to chop (hasn't happend in 14,000 shots), I pull a knob, flip open the breech, and run a squeege through, instead of disassembling the marker.

4. Reliability. There's way more to go wrong in a Black Dragun than an Angel, and problems with E-Frames and Sear/hammer release are quite common.

5. Extra Features, well most are useless, but the game timer is very handy.

6. No Blowback. My Angel feeds far better at high rates of fire than any Blowback marker. This is important for a back player.

7. Adjustable Trigger. I don't have to stay with the trigger my Airsmith, or the gun designer likes. Personally I've got a DYE Turbo trigger, with a long pull (for an Angel), setup just the way I like it.

8. Useable safety. I have a safe mode, which is actually useable, I've yet to see thaton anything other than an Angel LCD/IR3 or Boo-Yah frame.

9. Lifetime. I can expect that my Angel, if maintained can go 500,000 or more shots in it's lifetime. The Balck Dragun will be worn out by the time it's at 100,000, simply due to cheaper materials and manufacture.

These arguments don't really apply to a marker like an RT Pro, once you atart playing in that price range (usually $500+), you're paying more for looks, name or extra features (I certainly payed more, simply because I bought an Angel).