Very Distirbuing News that ticks me off

[StuDawggie]

So lately in the news here in the Detroit area there has been this story about this woman who killed her 2 kids. To summarize the whole thing it goes like this.

This woman (I'll leaver her name out of this) 25 y/o takes her 2 kids with her ages 4 and 10 months with her while she goes to the salon to get her hair done. 3 1/2 hours later (at aprox 8:00 pm) she comes out of the salon to her car and finds her kids dead from being left in the car with the windows rolled up in 90+ degree heat. So realizing that they're dead, she drives around for 3 hours before going to a hospital to tell them that something is wrong. Then when she gets to the hospital at 11:00 pm she tells the people there that she was raped and forced to leave the kids while she was dragged away. Well, come to find out she wasn't (no seminal fluid was found, and she admitted that she had lied)the police arrest her for incident. BTW after examining the car the police found face prints of the children on the windows of the car near the top where they tried to get air. That brings us to now. It was annouced that the most she can be charged with is invoulary manslaughter, since she admitted the she "didn't know that leaving them in a car that long would kill them". So the worst penalty she would receive would be 15 years, and the least she could receive if convicted is probation.
Let me also add that this single woman is currently 4 months pregnant with her 3rd child and the state is going to allow her to have the child and once it is born it will be placed with a family member of hers. Also she has a criminal history a mile long, with violations ranging from disorderly conduct to CHILD NEGLECT!!!!!

C'mon people, who is that stupid to not know that leaving a child in a parked car when it's over 90 outside is dangerous? She's 25 y/o and admits that she didn't know that to a judge. That's a crock of crap.

It's a shame that we hear about these stories every summer, and no one does anything until it's too late. The only people I feel bad for are the children that die, not the parent who neglected their child, or even that person's family. I feel only for the innocent victims in this case. The only thing about this story that makes me happy is the fact that she was unable to attend her own children's funeral and will have to live the rest of her life knowing that she killed her kids and wasn't allowed to attend the funeral and has that burden on her the rest of her life.

Sorry if this seems like a rant, but stupid people just tick me off, and in this case a child killer is going to get a light sentence and be back in society because she played stupid to the judge. I wonder when this is done how many more childern she'll have, and kill, because she wanted to put priority on her hair and not her children.

[TigerMan]

These are the kind of people who you wish you could use Arabic law on them for the punishment to fit the crime. The woman obviously doesn't have her priorities straight nor her mindset. If the woman knows how to use an oven and what it does to things put inside it (assuming she does since she is a mother, not much of one though), she should easily have known what would have happened to her kids when left in the conditions they were left in (not best example to use for the oven, but it gets the point across). She also must have been living under a rock or something for her entire life to have not heard a story about children being left in the car. The woman is obviously not fit to care for another person as she put two childrens lives on the side for her hair. Put her in a car with the same conditions and see how she likes it.

[Restola]

Some people just belong at the vet. ::snip snip::

[Cliffio]

not watch the news much?
this story broke on the first on july
its now the 11th

little late on this one:)

but yeah its sad, and i was angry about it last week, but i just brushed it off as being a stupid stupid person, or perhaps something she did on perpose

anyways
its horrible

Cliff

[oldsoldier]

the worst part is, it will happen again.

[Jonno06]

how old were the kids again?

4monthes,and 10monthes,or 4yrs,and 10monthes......???

if i was 10,i know i would have kicked the windows out,or atleast honked the horn to get her attencion.....


the kids dont know how to unlock the doors,let alone open them??

i know they might be too young,then how did they try and get air??

[obsolete898]

That's when I wish God got a muligan.

[MagmanLee]

wow...how stupid and simple minded can u be? Well i hope her hair was worth it cause she just traded 2 of her kids for it.

[StuDawggie]

Originally posted by Cliffio
not watch the news much?
this story broke on the first on july
its now the 11th


actually I watch it daily. The part that just broke that got me all PO'd was that fact that she said that she didn't know that leaving the kids in the car for over 3 hours in the heat would kill them.

Jonno: the kids were 4 yrs and 10 months. Not 10 years, and 4 months, sorry about the confusion.

[mykroft]

You think that's bad. A young Japanese woman was recently convicted of double 1st degree murder in Edmonton, for leaving her two kids (one 2 year old, 1 15 months old) alone in her apartment for two weeks, while she partied with her boyfriend.

[Patron God of Pirates]

Stupid is not a crime.

It was an awfull mistake, but based on this instance allone she does not need to be rehabilitated. She doesn't need to go to prison, she needs to go to school. (Please not that while these statments seem a bit liberal, I'm not, and I don't think I should have to pay for he education or imprisonment)

As to the driving around and lying, yeah, another stupid move, but i think we need to cut some slack to the mental state of a woman who just killed her kids by accident and was probably stupid enough think she'd get the death penalty for it.

Try to look past your outrage and relize that this woman has allready been punished more than she deserves. Putting her in prison will be a waste of time, money, and only produce a less fnctional citizen than we had to begin with.

Side note: Three hours?!? How much hair does she have!?!?

[Jonno06]

i take it the 4yr old cant unlock the door??

or honk the horn?

i agree with patron of pirates........

[synreal]

stupid may not be a crime, but it is also not a defense.

anyone who has driven for more than a few months knows that your car gets good and toasty after being closed up in the sun for a few minutes

i am not outraged at the situation, however, i am upset that she is claiming to be too stupid to have known that baking your children in a car for 3 hours is what is commonly refered to as a "bad" thing. hell, leaving your 10 month old alone, unsupervised for 3 hours also fits under the same heading. i live in detroit, where this happened, and i can also tell you that every day for YEARS i have seen billboards and commercials reminding you to NOT leave kids or pets in cars even for brief periods of time, because they will die.

it bothers me that people who leave their pets in the car to bake lose their pets (and often get their windows smashed in by cops/by-standers to let the critters out) but this creaton gets to keep on pumping out kids, lovely.

if you are too stupid to know that ditching your kids while you go get braids put in for hours is completely inappropriate, then by the same logic, you are a danger to your unborn child, and should be seperated as soon as medically safe for the child.

if i go push my brother off a building, is my sadness over the loss of a family memeber punishment enough for my <b>crime</b>? i highly doubt so. she should (and most likely will) spend some quality time out by jackson correction facility where they have a notorious record for not being polite to inmates who commit crimes against children.

[wyn1370]

Makes you wonder what kind of place she got her hair done at. Most salons have windows out front. How did no one else notice this happening? Let alone the fact that she's from Detroit. Who would leave their kids unattended in Detroit?

[Patron God of Pirates]

Originally posted by synreal
if i go push my brother off a building, is my sadness over the loss of a family memeber punishment enough for my <b>crime</b>? i highly doubt so. she should (and most likely will) spend some quality time out by jackson correction facility where they have a notorious record for not being polite to inmates who commit crimes against children.

That depends, did you push him off on purpose?

I realize there is a huge gray area here, and I agree, the woman should be declared unfit to raise children. My point is that her spending 15 years in prison will do no good.

If it is proven that she intended to kill her children, then by all means, may she be disemboweled in a public square. Deliberate crimes against children, who are helpless and depend on us, are the most evil crimes of all.

Evil vs. Stupid, makes the loss of two children no less tragic, but it does make it less criminal.

The other side of the coin is this; If she is not sent to jail for it, will other mothers who wish to kill there children begin having similar accidents? So do we imprison an innocent (although monumentally stupid) woman as an example to others?

Lots and lots of gray.

Side Note: A woman that works for my father doesn't know who the president is and thinks the Russians knocked down the World Trade Center. She has three kids. The idiots are out breeding us.

[synreal]

"A person acts with CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE with respect to a death when:

* that person engages in conduct which creates or contributes to asubstantial and unjustifiable risk that another person's death will occur,

* and when he or she fails to perceive that risk,

* and when that risk is of such nature and degree that failure to perceiveit constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care that a reasonable person would observe in the situation."

in which case the most appropriate punishment is Criminal Neligent Homicide. Do I think that she has the intent to kill her kids? Of course not, is she responsible for two homicides as defined above? The current, publicly available evidence tends to make me believe so.

sidenote- it turns out that she had a third child that was given up for adoption 2 years ago at the advice of a third party counselor.

[FactsOfLife]

By the line of reasoning I've read on this topic so far, I gather that the woman from Texas who drowned her kids is also innocent. After all, it was her kids fault for not being able to hold their breath long enough right?

Ever had heat stroke? After about 2 hours of roasting alive, yes that's how they died, what do you suppose the mental state of the 4 year old was? And here's a guess, the back doors of the car probably had child safety locks on them, making it impossible to open from the inside.

Even if the kid knew how to open the door, why is it his fault AT ALL for this?

It isn't grey area here, it's black and white. The mother is garbage, and obviously unfit to be a parent. And anyone who says they didn't know that leaving their kids in a closed car in 90 degree weather is one of two things. Mentally retarded or lying. Either way, she has no business being free in public.

I am seriously disturbed by some of the comments on here exonerating this POS for her actions. Making her out to be some kind of victim in this CRIME is ludicris.

my not so humble opinion.

[oldsoldier]

hey, stupidity isnt a crime, negligence is. She can be charged with criminal negligence, or whatever law the state has that is similar to that. Also, she may have had child-proof doors; cant be opened from inside. And a 4 year old doesnt have the presence of mind to try and get attention; the poor child only wanted to breathe.
I am in no way defending this lady, but, I have to agree that actual jail time wont do any good at all. Jail doesnt cure criminals;it encourages. And, she technically isnt a criminal. Granted, she effectively killed two children, but it was out of neglect, not any malicious intent. So, manslaughter? Maybe. More than likely, she will be brought up on some child neglect charges. I am sure she is upset. The one thing they need to look into is a pattern with er. Has the police or CDC been notified before for her? If so, a pattern may develop. Then, maybe, she will receive a stiffer punishment. But, I personally think she will punish herself for the rest of her life. She is already stigmatized; everyone in the area will nkow who she is. It was a stupid (not the word I want to use...but in a PG forum, it works) mistake with tragic results. And, her driving around for 3 hrs w/her kids dead; surprise, this is almost a normal reaction, when death is accidental at the hands of another. She panicked, knew she was guilty, and couldnt take the blame for herself. So, what did she do? Concocted a story. I am sure the interviewer knew from the start it was BS...just waited for her to break. Anyway, I really hope that people sit up and take notice; this occurs every year. You think people would learn...unfortunately, for us, anything over six months is "old news". We forget about this kind of stuff. Next year, it'll happen again, somewhere else. This is what, the third time this year so far? And those are only the ones they show in the news nationally.

[Patron God of Pirates]

By the guidelines Synreal posted, she is guilty of a clearly defined crime. The issue which remains gray (as in open for discussion) is what do you do with this woman now.

Like OS pointed out, we don't know the rest of her background, so speculation is a bit useless.

I'm removing myself from the discussion until we learn more.

Side Note: Andrea Yates should be drowned. Comparing the two crimes is ludicrous.

[mykroft]

It's Crim Neg & manslaughter at a minimum, I'd go 3rd degree murder instead of manslaughter.

Stupid or not, she caused the death of 2 people, who happened to be her responsibility. Lock her up, throw away the key, she has not paid nearly enough for the deaths of 2 children. It's not worthy of the death penalty, but certainly of Life without Parole.

[FactsOfLife]

Originally posted by Patron God of Pirates
Side Note: Andrea Yates should be drowned. Comparing the two crimes is ludicrous.

read my post again. I was NOT comparing the crimes. I was making reference to the attitude that somehow because the 4 year old couldn't open the door it was somehow their fault.

specifically this quote:




Jonno06 i take it the 4yr old cant unlock the door??

[Patron God of Pirates]

My fault, you are correct sir.

[FactsOfLife]

thanks. appreciate it.:)

[oldsoldier]

Cant push murder...the one key element in murder is INTENT. She didnt intend to kill her kids. They may start with that, but, if I were her lawyer, I would argue that to nothing. I dont even think a judge would allow that. I dont know the law there, so there may be a fine line between M3 and manslaughter. MA doesnt have M3...M1, M2, and manslaughter..thats it. For a murder conviction, you need to prove intent, no matter what degree you are going for. Again, without her personal history, you cant prove that she intended this.
Prosecuting lawyers, especially in criminal cases, will almost always start with a higher degree of criminal intent, knowing that it will eventually be argued down. This is the only way I see them starting with M3. If they start w/criminal negligence, they cant up the charges to anything other than that. Well, keep us informed...now I aM interested.

[-Jôker-]

ok its obsolutely DISTURBING that people in this nation are this STUPID! i mean its a known fact that the inside of a car gets HOT when its HOT outside and vice versa. the kids should have hone inside with her. it was her neglect and not carinmg that killed these kids. i wish i could watch here sit in a car in 90 degree weather for 4 hrs. but waitt that would be to nice to do for her. she needs to habve the kid shes bearing takin away as soon as it pops out... and needs tolearn how to stop having sex or use a condom.. people like this are going to fill the world with morons.


now the lady who has three kids and doesnt know who the president is and thought the WTC was destroyed by the russians.... thats is so sad that this nation has such idiots.. i would personely like to slap that stupid stupid stupid person and tell them to start school over and maybe she can get her kids back after they get a decent education...:mad:

[Wheelman]

Being a Corrections Officer I deal stupid people everyday(yeah positive career choice) most of the people that are at my facility will be there for the rest of there natural lives and the rest are "doing life on the instalment plan."

It is downright sickening the things that lawyers get these guys off on. As much as I hate to say it, she'll probably walk. Prison isn't what it used to be and stupidity breeds rampant

[Restola]

I had to jump in on these "stupid isnt a crime" comments.

Definition of 3rd degree murder in Minnisota (first state I could find)

"Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others...without regard for human life"

Like leaving your kids in a car for 3 hours on a hot day with the windows closed.

I think in other states "wreckless disregard for human life" is 2nd degree murder.

Stupid isnt a crime until it effects another life. She should rot in jail. "Send her to school" HA.

[Evil Emperor]

You guys are right, stupidity isnt a crime. But the consiquensis can be! The problem is the punishment. Ok this dingbat kills her kids and so we pay to keep her alive for the next 25 years. If the old jewish law a child was to be stoned to death for being disrespectfull! Im not shure if they still do it today but i think in Japan if you are cought stealing they would cane you. where not talking about just a little tap where talking about you couldnt walk after they got done with you. So if you think about it this lady isnt really getting any punishment that besides the mental pain of the lost of her children (IF she has any). And the Yates thing, she had probs. My mom (she's a nurse) says she had hormone probs. But I still think if they take the life of ppl who take others lives then lots of crime will dissapear.

[Mossman]

This woman should be sentenced to the death penalty. For the love of god, you do not need a highschool/college education to have a sense of MATERNAL INSTINCT. What a useless piece of crap, I am not sad for her, sad for the kids, sad for the family, I am sad about what our world is coming to. People are as a whole, so incompetent, it is astounding. I think that the fact that everyone on this board can take apart a mag and put it back together automatically puts everyone in the top 50th percentile.

I recently have been doing focus groups whenever they ask me too. Its good money and its fun. The most recent one i went to had about 30 men and women ranging from the ages of 16-30. As a 16 year old I would have put 1000 dollars I dont have on the line that I could beat anyone in that room at any mind related competition. I would rather stare at a wall for 3 hours then listen to these people who could barely put together and idea, let alone a sentence.

Good lord, I think we need to start over. At this rate human stupidity is gonna wipe our species out long before we deplete all of our natural resources.

I am not a violent person, but this person is either going to prison and costing taxpayers money, or going back on welfare to cost the taxpayers money, and I would have NO problem making the injecting/flicking the switch/Bludgeoning her to death with a chunk of pipe.

These stories aggravate me even more when I know the justice system is gonna....jesus...why'd u have to post this...grrr....

bastards...poor kids....goddamnit