"Cool... too bad the Automag doesn't shoot straight..."

[Jack & Coke]

"Cool... too bad the Automag doesn't shoot straight and level... the balls drops too much and lack the distance of an autocoker... blah blah blah...

I don't know what it is... I've been to all of the local stores in the last week to play show-and-tell with my new Level 10 Automag Retro. So far EVERY time a known die hard Angel or die hard cocker user sees me awe other people with my Level 10 demos the above stupid comment comes out of their mouths.:rolleyes:

Then I go into the old "physics lesson" routine where I waste my time and have to somehow convince them otherwise. Myths and rumors are indeed powerful and difficult to overcome.:mad:

It's amazing how paintball people will believe anything they read that supports their choice of markers over a different brand... even if it's all hogwash.:(

Has anyone ever filmed an MPEG of a MAG, ANGEL, and COCKER shooting side-by-side showing how their trajectories look and compare to each other?
:confused:

[DarkRipper]

Yet you own an intimidator... I could see the M98 for a beat around brush gun.

:)

Just pickin.
;)

DR

[booyah]

http://www.pbstar.com/randebtherre.html

all i gotta say

[Jack & Coke]

DarkRipper,

I love and respect all my guns... they are like my children - they are all different, but I love playing with them equally... :)

[LJT]

As I recall one of the lvl 10 videos (see AO main page) showed a lvl 10 E-mag shooting 20 bps against the slow 13 bps of an Angel. Lots of mag owners seem to complain about people insulting their guns, but I have not had that problem where I live. Maybe people are nicer. Anyway, I should think those people you "awed" probably didn't care what any autococker or angel owner said.

[DarkRipper]

Originally posted by Jack & Coke
DarkRipper,

I love and respect all my guns... they are like my children - they are all different, but I love playing with them equally... :)

I'm just giving you a hard time. ;) Don't take it as anything but a joke.

:)
DR

[Telefragged]

When I showed off my new RT Pro at the shop and the fiedl I play at I didn't get any "Pheb... Mag's suck!" comments or anything. All I got was "That's awesome!" and "That's cool!" Guess no one around here has been affected by anti-mag sentiment. Even the guy who owns a 'Cocker out of our little "paintball group" though it was sick!

[FooTemps]

I only get "mags are awesome" and "that's a pretty nice setup but you need a double trigger"

[rx2]

I haven't had any bad comments, but then again, most players I have met in my area only know what is the most expensive. ONE ref noticed my mag, but it was in the middle of a game, and I couldn't really do a demo of anything.
Anyhow, I played this plast weekend, and a few teams with Freeflows, Matrices, IR3's, Shockers, etc. were practicing. I stood and watched as their markers shot with the exact same trajectory as my Mag. Some even malfunctioned, and there were a couple of breaks. I wanted so badly to take my mag and demonstrate that I could fire with no breaks, and with the same trajectory. But, I figured that it would be moot, as I have a simple mechanical trigger, and they would just point out how slow it is. Oh well.

[virus]

well so far myself and magmonkey have been oowwing and ahhing even some of the more die hard "cocker-jocks" (ie the die hard mag haters.... you know the ones that swear by all the rumors even when confronted with facts and demos right in front of them) with our LvX demos.... only a couple left to go =) and they are slowly coming around....

i think over then next few time i play i'll be shootin everything under the sun as i switch guns for a game with them... should be fun for me... 1 beatin on their guns ;) and watchin them pick up their jaws off the ground afterwards =)

for the fun of it this past sunday after we were done playin i went over to the chrono just to see how fast i could fan the trigger with my micro(w/retro and stock minimag frame) while havin a couple people read off what the readout was... hit 13, 14 and 15bps each once, 12 5-6 times, 11 was w/o even tring... with about a 1/4 hopper left i said watch this... stood up and emptied the hopper.... now i dont have a forgrip on the micro yet so i am only holding onto the tank reg while fanning... needless to say they heard the pffft sound about 30 times inbetween shots... one of the part time refs kept askin me if i wanted to sell it the rest of the time before i left... i just kept shakin my head =)

ok enough ranting from me....

[HoppysMag]

iv got a guy who goes on and on about cocker range and so forth, he had a mag, put aftermarket internals into it and blames the gun... i tell him to send it to AGD to get it repaired but he doesnt...

[oldsoldier]

Hey virus...I went there saturday...a couple of the reffs there were very impressed. They mentioned you demoing w/your finger...I just smiled.

[Jack & Coke]

I'm with you all regarding the "same fps = same distance" arguement.

However, after reading most of the comments regarding TASO's 18-20 inch barrel, you wonder how so many people can be so misinformed about this topic.

I'm mean, are all these guys wrong in their assessment that this insanely long barrel does indeed shoot farther and more accurate than a shorter 8-10" barrel?

Click here to read comments regarding the 18"-20" barrel. (http://www.pbreview.com/254/1/0/)

http://www.pbreview.com/pics/StoneColdBigStick.jpg

Out of 59 reviews, it scored a 9.5 out of 10. wow.

[AGD]

And since EVERYBODY calls Miss Cleo she MUST be right!!!

Elfspeak on the long barrels.....


AGD

[ttoad4000t]

ugh....ive talked with many people with cockers over the past two days, %100 said cockers shoot farther and straighter than mags, all of them have been very stupid on the subject also...just ask TXStorm :rolleyes:

[personman]

Screw long barrels, I dont care if they 'improve preformance' according to the all great and all knowing newbies, I'll stick to a 10 inch barrel, thanks.

[Jack & Coke]

Strike Fear into your Speedball nemesis with this!:D

[Jack & Coke]

...and for all you scenario woods phreaks who like to crawl on your bellies, I give you the ultimate long range (Tippmann Flatline? pffff!) super accurate SNIPER marker...

Guaranted 6 inch groupings @ 1000 meters!;)

[virus]

Originally posted by oldsoldier
Hey virus...I went there saturday...a couple of the reffs there were very impressed. They mentioned you demoing w/your finger...I just smiled.

what can i say... i like walkin around with my finger in the breech and pullin the trigger as i walk around.... now i just need to get on of their p/t refs to quit buggin me about buyin my micro.... =)

[personman]

Originally posted by Jack & Coke
...and for all you scenario woods phreaks who like to crawl on your bellies, I give you the ultimate long range (Tippmann Flatline? pffff!) super accurate SNIPER marker...

Guaranted 6 inch groupings @ 1000 meters!;)
Yeah because the barrel can pretty much reach that far :p

[FrAuStY]

Hey look it even has a convienient carrying handle built into the barrel!! Good luck pluggin that bad boy!!

[MagNumPI]

I am the ONLY guy at my field that shoots a mag. and from a die hard cocker owner, i got a "Now thats a MAG i really really like"

I almost fell on my ***. He used to say "A mag.. A MAG!!! what are you thinking!!" jokingly. He was a mag guy back back in the day.. but moved to cockers.


I love my mag setup. It competes with any markers on the fields. IR3, Cocker, Timmy. All i can say is Bring it!!

[PaInTbALL zAcH]

I have an emag right now and i love it and never have problems with it. but honestly cockers have some special voodoo power that makes the balls shoot at a flatter trajectory. maybe the way the bolt is designed it puts back spin or something on it. its probably just my imagination too

[mykroft]

paintball zach: It's actually a trick of perspective, since the sightrail/top of body on a cocker is higher, it looks like the tragectory is flatter than the trajectory looks on a mag. Puzzled the hell out of me with the apparently different tragectories hiting the same spot, until I figured it out.

Note that it's easier to aim a longer barrel, so it appears to be more accurate.

[PaInTbALL zAcH]

Like I said "scary voodoo magic"
Yea mykroft your probably right

[bigsarge72]

Ok, to address a couple of issues:
1)Open bolt vs closed bolt: Go to Warpig and read the article, both shoot identical.
2)Barrel Length: I have read a lot of articles on barrel length, and a longer barrel can actually hurt your distance (friction), AND, the effective length of the barrel is only up to the point where the holes in the barrel begin (if you don't believe me, ask Tom). Most people shoot better with longer barrels, because it is easier to aim a longer barrel.
3)When I had my first mag, I stood side-by-side with my buddy and his cocker, and we were shooting the exact same distance. In fact, when we were playing against each other, I even got the advantage on him a couple times. I only had a 12"stainless steel barrel too.

Just some things to think about.

By the way, I love cockers, but I have always loved mags too, and when someone says "Should I get a cocker or mag" I tell them the truth...It's all a matter of personal preference, try before you buy.
(I also tell them if they can't leave their gun alone when it is working, get a mag, cause you will screw up a cocker and a mag is pretty much retard proof ;-) )

[rx2]

Too many people only go by how things seem to be from behind the marker. Before they start proclaiming the great distance of a certain marker, people need to
A) Do a side by side, and/or
B) Observe from the side

It is extremely obvious when one observes a Mag and another marker side by side, and from the side (viewing across the flight path) that both will arc, and have the same effective range. I have seen it plenty of times.

[AcemanPB]

someone should do a video showing this, that way it would prove to people marker A shoots just like marker B (i would do the vid myself but don't have all the equipment i need)

[MikeCouves]

Originally posted by HoppysMag
iv got a guy who goes on and on about cocker range and so forth, he had a mag, put aftermarket internals into it and blames the gun... i tell him to send it to AGD to get it repaired but he doesnt...

Ahh I know how you feel there. So many uneducated people do that! I have heard countless rants around here about how their mag is leaking and the bolt has alot of wear. I crack open the mag to find aftermarket valvles, back halves, aftermarket regulator, grinding of on/off pin, etc. I almost scream because it makes me so peeved. They ruin it themself and blame it on the marker...

[P4ULuk]

Originally posted by bigsarge72
Ok, to address a couple of issues:
1)Open bolt vs closed bolt: Go to Warpig and read the article, both shoot identical.
2)Barrel Length: I have read a lot of articles on barrel length, and a longer barrel can actually hurt your distance (friction), AND, the effective length of the barrel is only up to the point where the holes in the barrel begin (if you don't believe me, ask Tom). Most people shoot better with longer barrels, because it is easier to aim a longer barrel.
3)When I had my first mag, I stood side-by-side with my buddy and his cocker, and we were shooting the exact same distance. In fact, when we were playing against each other, I even got the advantage on him a couple times. I only had a 12"stainless steel barrel too.

Just some things to think about.

By the way, I love cockers, but I have always loved mags too, and when someone says "Should I get a cocker or mag" I tell them the truth...It's all a matter of personal preference, try before you buy.
(I also tell them if they can't leave their gun alone when it is working, get a mag, cause you will screw up a cocker and a mag is pretty much retard proof ;-) )

The warpig test is all well and good and I've quoted it many times myself however, maybe theres more to it then just the bolt position, how about some equally constructive tests with a cocker V's whatever bench mounted.

I dunno bout anyone else but I was hardly suprised that the warpig tests showed there was no differance as to different markers shooting differently, having different tragectories I remain fairly open minded!

Paul.

[manike]

I changed a few people's minds about mags today and at the last tourny I went to.

Funny thing today was the guys that used to joke about the mag being a blender were breaking paint and I was like, "wow you have to 'clean' your gun?" and "hey do you want my squeegie? I don't need it anymore" ;)

I shut up a guy with a cocker at my last tourny after telling him that I had an electro Spearhead Autococker also but prefer to use the RT for the REALLY brittle paint :) He walked off without having a reply!

Hey Paul, let me shoot you with my cocker and my extreme and then you can tell us if the ball's trajectories looked any different when coming in :D

manike

[P4ULuk]

Originally posted by manike
I changed a few people's minds about mags today and at the last tourny I went to.

Funny thing today was the guys that used to joke about the mag being a blender were breaking paint and I was like, "wow you have to 'clean' your gun?" and "hey do you want my squeegie? I don't need it anymore" ;)

I shut up a guy with a cocker at my last tourny after telling him that I had an electro Spearhead Autococker also but prefer to use the RT for the REALLY brittle paint :) He walked off without having a reply!

Hey Paul, let me shoot you with my cocker and my extreme and then you can tell us if the ball's trajectories looked any different when coming in :D

manike

Think I may of experienced the RT at Ancaster :D
Note I did say maybe!:D

Paul.

[manike]

Hey with all the new people joining AO from the UK, we could start an 'I've been shot by manike' club :) I'll even do guest appearances in the USA so more people can join :D hehehe I'm generous like that.

I know four (five maybe) people here that get to join already :D

Paul, If you aren't in it already I hope to oblige next time we meet ;) You are always welcome to come to SGW for a practice. We hope to have SupAir soon.

manike